Your government health insurance will not be worth the paper its written on
- Thread starter dr. freeze
- Start date
dr. freeze;2381523 If the citizenry is all hooked up to government funded health insurance where PRICES ARE FIXED BY THE GOVERNMENT[B said:
This is such bullshit coming from some alleged fraud of a doctor. No gov't agency stands in the way and makes decisions for medicare people and it isn't gonna start now. What does happen tho is insurance companies get in the way and decide what they want to let thru and what they don't. Great system the Insurance companies have.
hope i`m still around to hear the whining when obamacare hits the pavement....
what is coming is a 3-level system....top tier, elites and very wealthy (who can pay for their own) and conspicuously talented/famous people such as celebs,sports stars etc...they will get the best care.....
middle tier, the vast middle-class, tax-paying public who will be supporting the system for the poor,illegals,slackers....they will get basic care with some rationing and extended waiting periods for important tests and therapies...
bottom tier, the handicapped, too young, too old, too expensive, dementia patients,cancer patients with un-optimistic outcome predictions(they gave my mother a year to live and she lived 10 additional,fullyfunctional years with clean scans)....they will get highly rationed basic care....and, yes, they WILL die from it...
there will be a lot of surprises for a lot of people when this all goes into effect.....and i hope i`m around to remind those of you that you reap what you sow....and i predict, civil unrest that will make the current town hall protests a fond memory of what will seem like a gentle past.....
don`t worry sponge...you`ll get your 3rd world healthcare even if the majority is against it.....
what is coming is a 3-level system....top tier, elites and very wealthy (who can pay for their own) and conspicuously talented/famous people such as celebs,sports stars etc...they will get the best care.....
middle tier, the vast middle-class, tax-paying public who will be supporting the system for the poor,illegals,slackers....they will get basic care with some rationing and extended waiting periods for important tests and therapies...
bottom tier, the handicapped, too young, too old, too expensive, dementia patients,cancer patients with un-optimistic outcome predictions(they gave my mother a year to live and she lived 10 additional,fullyfunctional years with clean scans)....they will get highly rationed basic care....and, yes, they WILL die from it...
there will be a lot of surprises for a lot of people when this all goes into effect.....and i hope i`m around to remind those of you that you reap what you sow....and i predict, civil unrest that will make the current town hall protests a fond memory of what will seem like a gentle past.....
don`t worry sponge...you`ll get your 3rd world healthcare even if the majority is against it.....
Very true. My insurance company recently refused to pay for a perscription my doctor gave me. According to Freeze and a few others that doesn't happen.
don`t worry sponge...you`ll get your 3rd world healthcare even if the majority is against it.....
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:mj07:
I hate to break the news to u champ but i have a lot of connections in the health care industry and have it a lot better then most. shows u what kind of guy i am because im fighting for others including a guy like u who wouldn't know the truth from a scare tactic if it bit ya in the ass.
Stevie CNN had five doctors on last night on Larry KIng. One was that shitbag Frist. The one Doc went off and said in 30 or 40 years of him being a doctor not one time did the gov't step in and tell him what to do with a medicare patient. Forty years but Freeze has them ready to do it every minute. U had a couple of them saying that we spend twice as much on healthcare then anyone else with shittier results. Then of course Frist did the old Republican bullshit line and say we have the best health care in the world and the other doctor basically told him he was full of shit. Frist actually made some sense a few times talking about how the cost is to high but u know this shitbag would vote the complete opposite since his family is up to their ears with the health insurance companies.
I never even heard of that happening, can't you just pay up to get it yourself without going through insurance:shrug: Did your insurance company tell you it had to be generic instead, I highly doubt the ins co told you you couldn't get it filled:shrug:
what do you mean you highly doubt it? it happens all the time. my insurance has turned down several scripts over the years, aciphex for one. yes, he could get it filled, by payING FOR IT.
(oops caps)
They do not have a generic. But yes, I could pay for it myself. But why should I when I pay over $300 a month for insurance and my employer kicks in 75% of the cost.
The cost to insure me is $1500 a month! Nothing special about me that is what my employer pays that for everyone.
My point is that Limbaugh, Palin, and Freeze will have you rthink that a bunch of politicians will be dictating what you can and cannot be treated for. I say why is it better now when it is done by insurance company hacks?
When I retired in 2005, my work insurance covered Allegra (Allergy Med) 90 pills for $10 or $25 dollar co-pay, :00x33 when I went on my wifes coverage, they wouldn't cover Allegra, but I could buy it for I think $2 a pill.
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]It's obvious freeze is not a doctor.
With the health problems I've had and continue to have, I have had the opportunity to ask over 20 doctors/specialists what they think. It was 100% for change.
It will give the doctors the freedom to select the care best suited for the patient - not insuruance companies OR the goverment.
It will streamline the overhead labor and paperwork. Costs will gradually go down.
There won't be a problem with lack of doctors - family care students will have their tuition paid for.
Procedures and medication will no longer be denied. Pre-existing condition citizens will not be denied insurance. No will coverage stop when you are unemployed.
There are many more advantages if one would do just a tiny bit of research.
The president has spelled out what he wants @whitehouse.gov.
There are 3 bills in the House, one has passed committee. The Senate has 2 bills they are working on, both still in committee.
With the health problems I've had and continue to have, I have had the opportunity to ask over 20 doctors/specialists what they think. It was 100% for change.
It will give the doctors the freedom to select the care best suited for the patient - not insuruance companies OR the goverment.
It will streamline the overhead labor and paperwork. Costs will gradually go down.
There won't be a problem with lack of doctors - family care students will have their tuition paid for.
Procedures and medication will no longer be denied. Pre-existing condition citizens will not be denied insurance. No will coverage stop when you are unemployed.
There are many more advantages if one would do just a tiny bit of research.
The president has spelled out what he wants @whitehouse.gov.
There are 3 bills in the House, one has passed committee. The Senate has 2 bills they are working on, both still in committee.
I have never had a problem getting any prescript filled, I always ask for generic though if possible. I would not pay full price either. In fact I was trying to get my son on the insurance and refused to pay for his prescription for full price, of course they gave me enough for 5 days and deducted it when it was straightened out. I guess all you can do is call your doctor and see if they have another script that you can try.
I wonder why ins co's don't cover certain scripts? sounds stupid to me, unless certain drug companies have them in their back pocket, which could be the case.
so, lets get this straight, you think it is your right as a citizen of the United States to have medical insurance? I personally think it is a priviledge and everyone should have to pay for it through their employer or spouses employer, or if you have the money buy a policy on your own, like some on here do. The change your President is trying to ramrod through Congress is all about controlling you. It has nothing to do with better care, its about control.
I could not think of a worse thing that could happen to this country if this bs passes, except maybe another 9/11
Not defending doctors,but they have to give you lower cost meds first,for simple reason of costs.
If they determine that the generic meds are not working then they can give you the alterantive.
The alternative is not only stronger,but more expensive.I know first hand(acid gas reflex).
My Dr. always complains of this rule.
He states its a way of keeping cost down,but the patient suffers.And the pharmacys are still making money either way.
you are for micro-managed socialism - you don't believe that the government should pay for health care but you have no problem with your wife's company paying for yours. A company that you don't work for pays for your insurance. is that correct?
let me blow your mind
if your company (or your wifes company) stops paying for even a part of your health care then your business will make more money. Usually when your business makes more money they redistribute the wealth to the employee's - ala bonuses and such. now you could take that money and go buy insurance or the money you have already sent in to the Feds (federal income tax) could go towards providing you and your wife health care. You've already paid for it.
i got news for you Ringo
You're no daisy
You're no daisy at all
Poor soul, you were just too high strung.
I believe chances of Freeze being a Dr are a lot greater than you getting 100% of 20 Dr's to agree on anything
If you think they are for gov ran healthcare--I'd think again.
On prexisting conditions--maybe Gumby ought to get familiar with current laws--Hippa has federal reg that if you leave one coverage and go to another within 62 days--there are no prexisting conditions.
The pre-existing condition clause is made for the dead beats that carry no insurance--then when they get sick--think they ought to be able to take it out an be covered--then drop it again till next time they are sick.
Now lets take a look at these "easy streamlined" definition these gov plans for pre ex--
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"You may have heard President Obama trumpet in many recent speeches his plan to have government run health insurance cover everyone's pre-existing medical conditions. As an example, he said to the American Medical Association on June 15, 2009:
"That is why we need to end the practice of denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing conditions. The days of cherry-picking who to cover and who to deny--those days are over."
That certainly sounds like signing up for one of the government insurance plans, no matter what ails you, will get you covered, doesn't it?
I was curious to see if the President is right about his plan putting an end to "cherry-picking" which illnesses to cover, so I decided to wade through the 1,018 page proposed health care law to find out if that's true.
Come with me on this fantastic voyage through a mess of cross-referenced and confusing legalese. As your tour guide, I have nearly 20 years experience in practicing insurance law, but reading this was not easy for me. We can get through it together though.
If the President wanted his health insurances to cover all pre-existing conditions, you'd expect some pretty simple language that says,"All pre-existing conditions will be covered." Take a look at what is written into the law instead:
Section 111 has this paragraph about pre-existing conditions:
A qualified health benefits plan may not impose any pre-existing condition exclusion...
Great! Looks like the President is telling the truth. Oh but wait, the paragraph doesn't end there. It continues...
...(as defined in section 2701(b)(1)(A) of the Public Health Service Act)...
Ok, that means we have to look up a whole other law - the Public Health Service Act (PHSA) - to find out what the definition "pre-exiting condition exclusion" is. But before we do that, the paragraph we are reading continues:
...or otherwise impose any limit or condition on the coverage under the plan with respect to an individual or dependent based on any health status-related factors (as defined in section 2791(d)(9) of the Public Health Service Act) in relation to the individual or dependent.
Ok, the paragraph we are reading has ended, but we now have two tasks: Go to the PHSA and look up the definition of "pre-existing condition" in section 2701(b)(1)(A) and the definition of "health status related factors" in section 2791(d)(9).
When we Google those sections of the PHSA to read it, we run into a problem: The section numbers referenced in Obama's bill for the PHSA are the old numbers. The PHSA has been amended with new numbers, so our Googling has failed us.
Undeterred, we print out the full text of the PHSA so we can read the whole thing and find the correct section numbers. Much to our chagrin, it is 1,476 pages long. There goes our Saturday. But we are committed to this project, so we bear down and find the right sections.
Here is how the PHSA defines "pre-existing condition exclusion" in section 2701(b)(1)(A):
IN GENERAL.-The term "preexisting condition exclusion" means, with respect to coverage, a limitation or exclusion of benefits relating to a condition based on the fact that the condition was present before the date of enrollment for such coverage, whether or not any medical advice, diagnosis, care, or treatment was recommended or received before such date.
That's great! I have to tell you, President Obama seems a man of his word...oh wait. We had two things to look up here in the PHSA, didn't we? Section 2701(d)(9) defines "Health Status-Related Factor" like this:
The term "health status-related factor" means any of the factors described in section 2702(a)(1).
Ok, what kind of dirty trick to waste our time was that? President Obama sends us to section 2701 for a definition, and the definition is"see section 2702." Why not send us right to section 2702? Sigh. Fine. Let's keep reading.
Section 2702 (a)(1) of the PHSA says:
(a) INELIGIBILITY TO ENROLL.-
(1) IN GENERAL.-Subject to paragraph (2),...
Ok, stop right there. Just know that as we continue reading paragraph 1, we have to withhold any conclusion, because everything we are about to read is subject to paragraph 2. Ok? So let's continue with paragraph 1:
...a group health plan, and a health insurance issuer offering group health insurance coverage in connection with a group health plan, may not establish rules for eligibility (including continued eligibility) of any individual to enroll under the terms of the plan based on any of the following health status-related factors in relation to the individual or a dependent of the individual:
(A) Health status.
(B) Medical condition (including both physical and
mental illnesses).
(C) Claims experience.
(D) Receipt of health care.
(E) Medical history.
(F) Genetic information.
(G) Evidence of insurability (including conditions arising
out of acts of domestic violence).
(H) Disability.
Well I have to tell you up to this point President Obama is still looking good. Paragraph 1 seems to say the Government can't deny you coverage based upon any of the above pre-existing conditions. Oh but I forgot - the whole thing is "subject to paragraph 2." Let's see what that says:
(2) NO APPLICATION TO BENEFITS OR EXCLUSIONS.-To the extent consistent with section 701,...
OK, stop right there. They are making us work again. We are going to continue reading paragraph 2, but we have to withhold conclusions because we have to make sure it is "consistent with section 701." All right, here is paragraph 2:
paragraph (1) shall not be construed-
(A) to require a group health plan, or group health insurance coverage, to provide particular benefits other than those provided under the terms of such plan or coverage, or
(B) to prevent such a plan or coverage from establishing limitations or restrictions on the amount, level, extent, or nature of the benefits or overage for similarly situated individuals enrolled in the plan or coverage.
The bottom just fell out, and Obama is looking pale. The above language in paragraph 2 just put a whole bunch of power in the hands of the folks writing the policies when it comes to pre-existing conditions.
But before we analyze that, remember paragraph 2 has to be "consistent with section 701." So let's look at that. It says:
The purpose of this subpart is to enable the Secretary to provide a Federal program of student loan insurance for students in (and certain former students of) eligible institutions (as defined in section 719).
Wait...what? What's that got to do with the price of tea in China? We are talking about pre-existing medical conditions and suddenly we get sent to a section about - I don't know - giving loans to foreign exchange students from Kenya?
I think I know what happened there. The Public Health Service Act was originally written in the 1940's and has been amended many times. Somewhere along the way Congress just got sloppy, and now there is a cross-reference that either makes no sense or the connection is so obscure even comedian Dennis Miller thinks it's a little far-fetched.
I think it's just a huge typographical error, so the only thing we can do is ignore section 701 and get back to paragraph 2 of Section 2702, which we were discussing above.
I know all of this is confusing, but let your trusty tour guide tell you where you stand:
What paragraph two says in part A is that policy writers for the government will be allowed to make the insurance you buy cover certain ailments, and not cover others (one of which may be a condition you happen to have, which is pre-existing).
What paragraph two says in part B is that policy writers for the government will be allowed to limit the amount, level, extent, or nature of the treatment you get for certain ailments (one of which may be your pre-existing condition).
So who will be writing your insurance policy? According to the President's plan, a new bureaucracy known as the "Health Benefits Advisory Committee." It will be made up of 27 people, and guess how many have to be a treating doctor: One.
So if you believe President Obama's quote to the AMA means that if you sign up for government insurance your pre-existing condition will automatically be covered, - you're wrong, and so is the President. You'd better read the fine print on whether the gang of 26 bureaucrats plus one doctor is going to cover your pre-existing condition or not. President Obama is giving them the power to not cover you.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/08/13/obama-health-plan-wont-cover-pre-existing-conditions/
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btw
btw
to all of the liberal genius here..... what happens after gov run healthcare takes in all of the illegals that will be granted amnesty ?
yes, it will happen if the healthcare crap is pushed through. 40 mil new hispanics should be enough to get ocomma re-elected.
welfare state on the way. :moon:
btw
to all of the liberal genius here..... what happens after gov run healthcare takes in all of the illegals that will be granted amnesty ?
yes, it will happen if the healthcare crap is pushed through. 40 mil new hispanics should be enough to get ocomma re-elected.
welfare state on the way. :moon:
