a quick poll--need some input
- Thread starter pt1gard
- Start date
they don't?? Are you kidding me???? agent doesn't come in nearly every thread on this site with some kind of remark??
close it, keep it open, whatever. I feel the information I have posted is just as relative as the 3am diatribes of ptguard.
Zionism and the Jerusalem Program
What is the purpose of Zionism?
The foundations of Zionism are:
The unity of the Jewish people, its bond to its historic homeland Eretz Yisrael, and the centrality of the State of Israel and Jerusalem, its capital, in the life of the nation
Aliyah to Israel from all countries and the effective integration of all immigrants into Israeli Society.
Strengthening Israel as a Jewish, Zionist and democratic state and shaping it as an exemplary society with a unique moral and spiritual character, marked by mutual respect for the multi-faceted
Jewish people, rooted in the vision of the prophets, striving for peace and contributing to the betterment of the world.
Ensuring the future and the distinctiveness of the Jewish people by furthering Jewish, Hebrew and Zionist education, fostering spiritual and cultural values and teaching Hebrew as the national language;
Nurturing mutual Jewish responsibility, defending the rights of Jews as individuals and as a nation, representing the national Zionist interests of the Jewish people, and struggling against all manifestations of anti-Semitism.
All Zionists agree on the set of ideals and principles known as the Jerusalem Program.
The Jerusalem Program was adopted in 1951 at the 23rd World Zionist Congress and revised by the 27th Zionist Congress in 1968. It was most recently revised at the meeting of the Zionist General Council in June 2004.
..............................................................
I honestly do not think the Jewish people had anything to do with 911 or its aftermath.
What is the purpose of Zionism?
The foundations of Zionism are:
The unity of the Jewish people, its bond to its historic homeland Eretz Yisrael, and the centrality of the State of Israel and Jerusalem, its capital, in the life of the nation
Aliyah to Israel from all countries and the effective integration of all immigrants into Israeli Society.
Strengthening Israel as a Jewish, Zionist and democratic state and shaping it as an exemplary society with a unique moral and spiritual character, marked by mutual respect for the multi-faceted
Jewish people, rooted in the vision of the prophets, striving for peace and contributing to the betterment of the world.
Ensuring the future and the distinctiveness of the Jewish people by furthering Jewish, Hebrew and Zionist education, fostering spiritual and cultural values and teaching Hebrew as the national language;
Nurturing mutual Jewish responsibility, defending the rights of Jews as individuals and as a nation, representing the national Zionist interests of the Jewish people, and struggling against all manifestations of anti-Semitism.
All Zionists agree on the set of ideals and principles known as the Jerusalem Program.
The Jerusalem Program was adopted in 1951 at the 23rd World Zionist Congress and revised by the 27th Zionist Congress in 1968. It was most recently revised at the meeting of the Zionist General Council in June 2004.
..............................................................
I honestly do not think the Jewish people had anything to do with 911 or its aftermath.
.........................................................
Jack
Agent came in my Paul Harvey thread and called me a racist.
9/11 - All of the five alleged Flight 77 hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA -- the U.S.'s most powerful spy agency in which it's 38,000 employees are sworn to a lifetime of secrecy.[/B]
"A few miles out of Washington, on Route 1 to Baltimore, lies an inconspicuous military installation called Fort Meade. And yet it contains the largest mass of secrets in the world. It is home to the National Security Agency (NSA), the least visible but most powerful spy agency in America's armoury. The NSA's job is to eavesdrop on the world's phone calls and emails, but do not try to phone them. The NSA website does not list a phone number. You do not contact them. They listen to you. Though invisible on the map, 38,000 people work at the agency every day, more than the CIA and FBI put together - every one of them sworn to a lifetime of secrecy. When Osama bin Laden first moved to Afghanistan, the NSA listened in to every phone call he made on his satellite phone. In fact, one of the most bizarre ironies of all this is that five of the hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA.
Early on the morning of 11 September, when Hani Hanjour and his four accomplices left the Valencia Motel on US route 1 on their way to Washington's Dulles airport, they joined the stream of NSA employees heading to work.
Three hours later, they had turned flight 77 around and slammed it into the Pentagon
..................................................................
cheap motels were necessary
"A few miles out of Washington, on Route 1 to Baltimore, lies an inconspicuous military installation called Fort Meade. And yet it contains the largest mass of secrets in the world. It is home to the National Security Agency (NSA), the least visible but most powerful spy agency in America's armoury. The NSA's job is to eavesdrop on the world's phone calls and emails, but do not try to phone them. The NSA website does not list a phone number. You do not contact them. They listen to you. Though invisible on the map, 38,000 people work at the agency every day, more than the CIA and FBI put together - every one of them sworn to a lifetime of secrecy. When Osama bin Laden first moved to Afghanistan, the NSA listened in to every phone call he made on his satellite phone. In fact, one of the most bizarre ironies of all this is that five of the hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA.
Early on the morning of 11 September, when Hani Hanjour and his four accomplices left the Valencia Motel on US route 1 on their way to Washington's Dulles airport, they joined the stream of NSA employees heading to work.
Three hours later, they had turned flight 77 around and slammed it into the Pentagon
..................................................................
cheap motels were necessary
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If you guys only knew how juvenile and DUMB you looked, you would probably run off and never post on here again.
Who gives a **** if I post in a lot of threads? Isn't that the point of the website, or am I missing something? I read fast, think fast, and talk fast, sorry if that is offensive and opposite of your natural ways.
But keep on keepin on ladies. You can't and won't deter us. It's like a kid in preschool trying to pick a fight at recess. I think it's pretty obvious you guys are armed with nothing more than mud slinging and name calling for your arguments. The truth wins again.......
its ok. jack, their infantile behavior over the last 3 pages just proves they have no life or intellect to address the point of the thread, thats why i block them to keep it a minimum ... and yet they wonder why:shrug:
btw, 6'5, you posted some other poor soul's email bio not mine, i know its hard to spell out more than 5 letters for you but thats not my email at yahoo
6'5 maybe youd like to debate 9-11 on a taped calll? you sure know your stuff
how old are you guys, bc if you are over 25 this is truly a sad situation speaking for the official story mongers :scared .... i've worked with kids all my life and they are so much more mature than what you guys display that i pity you all.
btw, 6'5, you posted some other poor soul's email bio not mine, i know its hard to spell out more than 5 letters for you but thats not my email at yahoo
6'5 maybe youd like to debate 9-11 on a taped calll? you sure know your stuff
how old are you guys, bc if you are over 25 this is truly a sad situation speaking for the official story mongers :scared .... i've worked with kids all my life and they are so much more mature than what you guys display that i pity you all.
more facts
more facts
9/11 - All of the five alleged Flight 77 hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA -- the U.S.'s most powerful spy agency in which it's 38,000 employees are sworn to a lifetime of secrecy.
"A few miles out of Washington, on Route 1 to Baltimore, lies an inconspicuous military installation called Fort Meade. And yet it contains the largest mass of secrets in the world. It is home to the National Security Agency (NSA), the least visible but most powerful spy agency in America's armoury. The NSA's job is to eavesdrop on the world's phone calls and emails, but do not try to phone them. The NSA website does not list a phone number. You do not contact them. They listen to you. Though invisible on the map, 38,000 people work at the agency every day, more than the CIA and FBI put together - every one of them sworn to a lifetime of secrecy. When Osama bin Laden first moved to Afghanistan, the NSA listened in to every phone call he made on his satellite phone. In fact, one of the most bizarre ironies of all this is that five of the hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA.
Early on the morning of 11 September, when Hani Hanjour and his four accomplices left the Valencia Motel on US route 1 on their way to Washington's Dulles airport, they joined the stream of NSA employees heading to work.
Three hours later, they had turned flight 77 around and slammed it into the Pentagon."
more facts
9/11 - All of the five alleged Flight 77 hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA -- the U.S.'s most powerful spy agency in which it's 38,000 employees are sworn to a lifetime of secrecy.
"A few miles out of Washington, on Route 1 to Baltimore, lies an inconspicuous military installation called Fort Meade. And yet it contains the largest mass of secrets in the world. It is home to the National Security Agency (NSA), the least visible but most powerful spy agency in America's armoury. The NSA's job is to eavesdrop on the world's phone calls and emails, but do not try to phone them. The NSA website does not list a phone number. You do not contact them. They listen to you. Though invisible on the map, 38,000 people work at the agency every day, more than the CIA and FBI put together - every one of them sworn to a lifetime of secrecy. When Osama bin Laden first moved to Afghanistan, the NSA listened in to every phone call he made on his satellite phone. In fact, one of the most bizarre ironies of all this is that five of the hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA.
Early on the morning of 11 September, when Hani Hanjour and his four accomplices left the Valencia Motel on US route 1 on their way to Washington's Dulles airport, they joined the stream of NSA employees heading to work.
Three hours later, they had turned flight 77 around and slammed it into the Pentagon."
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? 9/11 - Larry Silverstein is absent from his office on the 88th floor of the North Tower because of a "doctors appointment" and his two kids, Roger and Lisa, are also absent from the office because they were "running late."
Who Wants to Move to Ground Zero?
"On the morning of September 11, 2001, Silverstein was in his Park Avenue apartment, squabbling with his wife, Klara, about how he had to get to work on the 88th floor of the north tower, where he was moving his company?s offices.
Klara gave him an icy stare. Silverstein had a dermatologist?s appointment?after a lifetime of boating, he has a history of facial carcinomas?and there was no way he was missing the appointment.
As surreal as it was for most of us to witness, one after the other, the explosion and collapse of the tallest buildings in New York, it was stranger still for the man who had just bought them. First he thought of his children. Silverstein?s son, Roger, was in the parking garage of the original 7 World Trade when the first plane hit, and his daughter Lisa was turned away by police farther uptown; they both work for their father." - New York Magazine (04/18/05)
Who Wants to Move to Ground Zero?
"On the morning of September 11, 2001, Silverstein was in his Park Avenue apartment, squabbling with his wife, Klara, about how he had to get to work on the 88th floor of the north tower, where he was moving his company?s offices.
Klara gave him an icy stare. Silverstein had a dermatologist?s appointment?after a lifetime of boating, he has a history of facial carcinomas?and there was no way he was missing the appointment.
As surreal as it was for most of us to witness, one after the other, the explosion and collapse of the tallest buildings in New York, it was stranger still for the man who had just bought them. First he thought of his children. Silverstein?s son, Roger, was in the parking garage of the original 7 World Trade when the first plane hit, and his daughter Lisa was turned away by police farther uptown; they both work for their father." - New York Magazine (04/18/05)
yeah, lots of facts. You overwhelm me with facts. I'm sure I'd love to "debate" you! :142smilie I don't like to give my phone number out to telemarketers or to folks like you. Keep on believing/hating. gl2u
If you guys only knew how juvenile and DUMB you looked, you would probably run off and never post on here again.
Who gives a **** if I post in a lot of threads? Isn't that the point of the website, or am I missing something? I read fast, think fast, and talk fast, sorry if that is offensive and opposite of your natural ways.
But keep on keepin on ladies. You can't and won't deter us. It's like a kid in preschool trying to pick a fight at recess. I think it's pretty obvious you guys are armed with nothing more than mud slinging and name calling for your arguments. The truth wins again.......
pick a fight?? LMAO!! :mj07: the fight has been picked not by me. Keep on believing this trash. truth wins?
"SixFive's" filibuster starts with "My article that I choice was". The english language is a challenge to some, I understand. Scott suffers from the same affliction.
Hey SixFive here is an idea, IGNORE THE THREAD. Go clean your guns, or kill something. I know this is a difficult concept to wrap your mind around, but if you can achieve this, then everyone is better off.
Hey SixFive here is an idea, IGNORE THE THREAD. Go clean your guns, or kill something. I know this is a difficult concept to wrap your mind around, but if you can achieve this, then everyone is better off.
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..............................................................
that pretty much sums it up there.
I was just wondering, have you refuted anytihing? Have you posted anything of substance in this thread? If so, please point it out to me because I am missing it. Honestly, wtf is your point? Why are you posting here and not just ignoring it? I really don't understand.
more proof that you officials say never exists--now ask why doesnt it appear on FOX?
more proof that you officials say never exists--now ask why doesnt it appear on FOX?
CIA complicit on September 11?
An interview with Michael Springman exposes the CIA's links with the terrorist attacks on September 11
[edit]Dateline: Saturday, January 19, 2002
Straight Goods reader Ken MacAllister of Vancouver, BC writes:
Michael Springmann worked for the US government for 20 years with the foreign service and consulate. He just went public with the story of his involvement in a large scale CIA operation that brought hundreds of people from the middle east to the US, issued them passports and trained them to be terrorists. Springmann says that the CIA is working closely with Bin Laden and his operatives in Jeddah and has been since 1987. The most haunting implication from this interview is that all of the terrorist acts of late were planned and paid for by the CIA with US taxpayers money so that the US could legitimately bomb the hell out of Afghanistan -- not to "get the Taliban" as the official party line states, but to erase all of the evidence of the US's secret operations in Afghanistan left over from its 10 year war with the Soviet Union in that country.
Based on the new information from Mr. Springmann, it is likely that most of those 600+ people who were "rounded up" within days of the September 11 attacks were actually in the US because the CIA brought them there. It lends credence to the idea that the CIA was also behind the anthrax letters and that is why there was weapons -grade anthrax and why the perpetrator will never be caught.
This transcript is produced from the teletext subtitles that are generated live for Newsnight. It has been checked against the programme as broadcast, however Newsnight can accept no responsibility for any factual inaccuracies. We will be happy to correct serious errors.
Has someone been sitting on the FBI? 6/11/01
GREG PALAST:
The CIA and Saudi Arabia, the Bushes and the Bin Ladens. Did their connections cause America to turn a blind eye to terrorism?
UNNAMED MAN:
There is a hidden agenda at the very highest levels of our government.
JOE TRENTO, (AUTHOR, "SECRET HISTORY OF THE CIA"):
The sad thing is that thousands of Americans had to die needlessly.
PETER ELSNER:
How can it be that the former President of the US and the current President of the US have business dealings with characters that need to be investigated?
PALAST:
In the eight weeks since the attacks, over 1,000 suspects and potential witnesses have been detained. Yet, just days after the hijackers took off from Boston aiming for the Twin Towers, a special charter flight out of the same airport whisked 11 members of Osama Bin Laden's family off to Saudi Arabia. That did not concern the White House.
Their official line is that the Bin Ladens are above suspicion - apart from Osama, the black sheep, who they say hijacked the family name. That's fortunate for the Bush family and the Saudi royal household, whose links with the Bin Ladens could otherwise prove embarrassing. But Newsnight has obtained evidence that the FBI was on the trail of other members of the] Bin Laden family for links to terrorist organisations before and after September 11th.
This document is marked "Secret". Case ID - 199-Eye WF 213 589. 199 is FBI code for case type. 9 would be murder. 65 would be espionage. 199 means national security. WF indicates Washington field office special agents were investigating ABL - because of it's relationship with the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, WAMY - a suspected terrorist organisation. ABL is Abdullah Bin Laden, president and treasurer of WAMY.
This is the sleepy Washington suburb of Falls Church, Virginia where almost every home displays the Stars and Stripes. On this unremarkable street, at 3411 Silver Maple Place, we located the former home of Abdullah and another brother, Omar, also an FBI suspect. It's conveniently close to WAMY. The World Assembly of Muslim Youth is in this building, in a little room in the basement at 5613 Leesburg Pike. And here, just a couple blocks down the road at 5913 Leesburg, is where four of the hijackers that attacked New York and Washington are listed as having lived.
The US Treasury has not frozen WAMY's assets, and when we talked to them, they insisted they are a charity. Yet, just weeks ago, Pakistan expelled WAMY operatives. And India claimed that WAMY was funding an organisation linked to bombings in Kashmir. And the Philippines military has accused WAMY of funding Muslim insurgency. The FBI did look into WAMY, but, for some reason, agents were pulled off the trail.
TRENTO:
The FBI wanted to investigate these guys. This is not something that they didn't want to do - they wanted to, they weren't permitted to.
PALAST:
The secret file fell into the hands of national security expert, Joe Trento. The Washington spook-tracker has been looking into the FBI's allegations about WAMY.
TRENTO:
They've had connections to Osama Bin Laden's people. They've had connections to Muslim cultural and financial aid groups that have terrorist connections. They fit the pattern of groups that the Saudi royal family and Saudi community of princes - the 20,000 princes - have funded who've engaged in terrorist activity.
Now, do I know that WAMY has done anything that's illegal? No, I don't know that. Do I know that as far back as 1996 the FBI was very concerned about this organisation? I do.
PALAST:
Newsnight has uncovered a long history of shadowy connections between the State Department, the CIA and the Saudis. The former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah is Michael Springman.
MICHAEL SPRINGMAN:
In Saudi Arabia I was repeatedly ordered by high level State Dept officials to issue visas to unqualified applicants. These were, essentially, people who had no ties either to Saudi Arabia or to their own country. I complained bitterly at the time there. I returned to the US, I complained to the State Dept here, to the General Accounting Office, to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security and to the Inspector General's office. I was met with silence.
PALAST:
By now, Bush Sr, once CIA director, was in the White House. Springman was shocked to find this wasn't visa fraud. Rather, State and CIA were playing "the Great Game".
SPRINGMAN:
What I was protesting was, in reality, an effort to bring recruits, rounded up by Osama Bin Laden, to the US for terrorist training by the CIA. They would then be returned to Afghanistan to fight against the then-Soviets.
The attack on the World Trade Center in 1993 did not shake the State Department's faith in the Saudis, nor did the attack on American barracks at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia three years later, in which 19 Americans died. FBI agents began to feel their investigation was being obstructed. Would you be surprised to find out that FBI agents are a bit frustrated that they can't be looking into some Saudi connections?
MICHAEL WILDES, ( LAWYER)
I would never be surprised with that. They're cut off at the hip sometimes by supervisors or given shots that are being called from Washington at the highest levels.
PALAST:
I showed lawyer Michael Wildes our FBI documents. One of the Khobar Towers bombers was represented by Wildes, who thought he had useful intelligence for the US. He also represents a Saudi diplomat who defected to the USA with 14,000 documents which Wildes claims implicates Saudi citizens in financing terrorism and more. Wildes met with FBI men who told him they were not permitted to read all the documents. Nevertheless, he tried to give them to the agents.
WILDES:
"Take these with you. We're not going to charge for the copies. Keep them. Do something with them. Get some bad guys with them." They refused.
PALAST:
In the hall of mirrors that is the US intelligence community, Wildes, a former US federal attorney, said the FBI field agents wanted the documents, but they were told to "see no evil."
WILDES:
You see a difference between the rank-and-file counter-intelligence agents, who are regarded by some as the motor pool of the FBI, who drive following diplomats, and the people who are getting the shots called at the highest level of our government, who have a different agenda - it's unconscionable.
PALAST:
State wanted to keep the pro-American Saudi royal family in control of the world's biggest oil spigot, even at the price of turning a blind eye to any terrorist connection so long as America was safe. In recent years, CIA operatives had other reasons for not exposing Saudi-backed suspects.
TRENTO:
If you recruited somebody who is a member of a terrorist organisation, who happens to make his way here to the US, and even though you're not in touch with that person anymore but you have used him in the past, it would be unseemly if he were arrested by the FBI and word got back that he'd once been on the payroll of the CIA. What we're talking about is blow-back. What we're talking about is embarrassing, career-destroying blow-back for intelligence officials.
PALAST:
Does the Bush family also have to worry about political blow-back? The younger Bush made his first million 20 years ago with an oil company partly funded by Salem Bin Laden's chief US representative. Young George also received fees as director of a subsidiary of Carlyle Corporation, a little known private company which has, in just a few years of its founding, become one of Americas biggest defence contractors. His father, Bush Senior, is also a paid advisor. And what became embarrassing was the revelation that the Bin Ladens held a stake in Carlyle, sold just after September 11.
ELSNER:
You have a key relationship between the Saudis and the former President of the US who happens to be the father of the current President of the US. And you have all sorts of questions about where does policy begin and where does good business and good profits for the company, Carlyle, end?
PALAST:
I received a phone call from a high-placed member of a US intelligence agency. He tells me that while there's always been constraints on investigating Saudis, under George Bush it's gotten much worse. After the elections, the agencies were told to "back off" investigating the Bin Ladens and Saudi royals, and that angered agents. I'm told that since September 11th the policy has been reversed. FBI headquarters told us they could not comment on our findings. A spokesman said: "There are lots of things that only the intelligence community knows and that no-one else ought to know.
more proof that you officials say never exists--now ask why doesnt it appear on FOX?
CIA complicit on September 11?
An interview with Michael Springman exposes the CIA's links with the terrorist attacks on September 11
[edit]Dateline: Saturday, January 19, 2002
Straight Goods reader Ken MacAllister of Vancouver, BC writes:
Michael Springmann worked for the US government for 20 years with the foreign service and consulate. He just went public with the story of his involvement in a large scale CIA operation that brought hundreds of people from the middle east to the US, issued them passports and trained them to be terrorists. Springmann says that the CIA is working closely with Bin Laden and his operatives in Jeddah and has been since 1987. The most haunting implication from this interview is that all of the terrorist acts of late were planned and paid for by the CIA with US taxpayers money so that the US could legitimately bomb the hell out of Afghanistan -- not to "get the Taliban" as the official party line states, but to erase all of the evidence of the US's secret operations in Afghanistan left over from its 10 year war with the Soviet Union in that country.
Based on the new information from Mr. Springmann, it is likely that most of those 600+ people who were "rounded up" within days of the September 11 attacks were actually in the US because the CIA brought them there. It lends credence to the idea that the CIA was also behind the anthrax letters and that is why there was weapons -grade anthrax and why the perpetrator will never be caught.
This transcript is produced from the teletext subtitles that are generated live for Newsnight. It has been checked against the programme as broadcast, however Newsnight can accept no responsibility for any factual inaccuracies. We will be happy to correct serious errors.
Has someone been sitting on the FBI? 6/11/01
GREG PALAST:
The CIA and Saudi Arabia, the Bushes and the Bin Ladens. Did their connections cause America to turn a blind eye to terrorism?
UNNAMED MAN:
There is a hidden agenda at the very highest levels of our government.
JOE TRENTO, (AUTHOR, "SECRET HISTORY OF THE CIA"):
The sad thing is that thousands of Americans had to die needlessly.
PETER ELSNER:
How can it be that the former President of the US and the current President of the US have business dealings with characters that need to be investigated?
PALAST:
In the eight weeks since the attacks, over 1,000 suspects and potential witnesses have been detained. Yet, just days after the hijackers took off from Boston aiming for the Twin Towers, a special charter flight out of the same airport whisked 11 members of Osama Bin Laden's family off to Saudi Arabia. That did not concern the White House.
Their official line is that the Bin Ladens are above suspicion - apart from Osama, the black sheep, who they say hijacked the family name. That's fortunate for the Bush family and the Saudi royal household, whose links with the Bin Ladens could otherwise prove embarrassing. But Newsnight has obtained evidence that the FBI was on the trail of other members of the] Bin Laden family for links to terrorist organisations before and after September 11th.
This document is marked "Secret". Case ID - 199-Eye WF 213 589. 199 is FBI code for case type. 9 would be murder. 65 would be espionage. 199 means national security. WF indicates Washington field office special agents were investigating ABL - because of it's relationship with the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, WAMY - a suspected terrorist organisation. ABL is Abdullah Bin Laden, president and treasurer of WAMY.
This is the sleepy Washington suburb of Falls Church, Virginia where almost every home displays the Stars and Stripes. On this unremarkable street, at 3411 Silver Maple Place, we located the former home of Abdullah and another brother, Omar, also an FBI suspect. It's conveniently close to WAMY. The World Assembly of Muslim Youth is in this building, in a little room in the basement at 5613 Leesburg Pike. And here, just a couple blocks down the road at 5913 Leesburg, is where four of the hijackers that attacked New York and Washington are listed as having lived.
The US Treasury has not frozen WAMY's assets, and when we talked to them, they insisted they are a charity. Yet, just weeks ago, Pakistan expelled WAMY operatives. And India claimed that WAMY was funding an organisation linked to bombings in Kashmir. And the Philippines military has accused WAMY of funding Muslim insurgency. The FBI did look into WAMY, but, for some reason, agents were pulled off the trail.
TRENTO:
The FBI wanted to investigate these guys. This is not something that they didn't want to do - they wanted to, they weren't permitted to.
PALAST:
The secret file fell into the hands of national security expert, Joe Trento. The Washington spook-tracker has been looking into the FBI's allegations about WAMY.
TRENTO:
They've had connections to Osama Bin Laden's people. They've had connections to Muslim cultural and financial aid groups that have terrorist connections. They fit the pattern of groups that the Saudi royal family and Saudi community of princes - the 20,000 princes - have funded who've engaged in terrorist activity.
Now, do I know that WAMY has done anything that's illegal? No, I don't know that. Do I know that as far back as 1996 the FBI was very concerned about this organisation? I do.
PALAST:
Newsnight has uncovered a long history of shadowy connections between the State Department, the CIA and the Saudis. The former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah is Michael Springman.
MICHAEL SPRINGMAN:
In Saudi Arabia I was repeatedly ordered by high level State Dept officials to issue visas to unqualified applicants. These were, essentially, people who had no ties either to Saudi Arabia or to their own country. I complained bitterly at the time there. I returned to the US, I complained to the State Dept here, to the General Accounting Office, to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security and to the Inspector General's office. I was met with silence.
PALAST:
By now, Bush Sr, once CIA director, was in the White House. Springman was shocked to find this wasn't visa fraud. Rather, State and CIA were playing "the Great Game".
SPRINGMAN:
What I was protesting was, in reality, an effort to bring recruits, rounded up by Osama Bin Laden, to the US for terrorist training by the CIA. They would then be returned to Afghanistan to fight against the then-Soviets.
The attack on the World Trade Center in 1993 did not shake the State Department's faith in the Saudis, nor did the attack on American barracks at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia three years later, in which 19 Americans died. FBI agents began to feel their investigation was being obstructed. Would you be surprised to find out that FBI agents are a bit frustrated that they can't be looking into some Saudi connections?
MICHAEL WILDES, ( LAWYER)
I would never be surprised with that. They're cut off at the hip sometimes by supervisors or given shots that are being called from Washington at the highest levels.
PALAST:
I showed lawyer Michael Wildes our FBI documents. One of the Khobar Towers bombers was represented by Wildes, who thought he had useful intelligence for the US. He also represents a Saudi diplomat who defected to the USA with 14,000 documents which Wildes claims implicates Saudi citizens in financing terrorism and more. Wildes met with FBI men who told him they were not permitted to read all the documents. Nevertheless, he tried to give them to the agents.
WILDES:
"Take these with you. We're not going to charge for the copies. Keep them. Do something with them. Get some bad guys with them." They refused.
PALAST:
In the hall of mirrors that is the US intelligence community, Wildes, a former US federal attorney, said the FBI field agents wanted the documents, but they were told to "see no evil."
WILDES:
You see a difference between the rank-and-file counter-intelligence agents, who are regarded by some as the motor pool of the FBI, who drive following diplomats, and the people who are getting the shots called at the highest level of our government, who have a different agenda - it's unconscionable.
PALAST:
State wanted to keep the pro-American Saudi royal family in control of the world's biggest oil spigot, even at the price of turning a blind eye to any terrorist connection so long as America was safe. In recent years, CIA operatives had other reasons for not exposing Saudi-backed suspects.
TRENTO:
If you recruited somebody who is a member of a terrorist organisation, who happens to make his way here to the US, and even though you're not in touch with that person anymore but you have used him in the past, it would be unseemly if he were arrested by the FBI and word got back that he'd once been on the payroll of the CIA. What we're talking about is blow-back. What we're talking about is embarrassing, career-destroying blow-back for intelligence officials.
PALAST:
Does the Bush family also have to worry about political blow-back? The younger Bush made his first million 20 years ago with an oil company partly funded by Salem Bin Laden's chief US representative. Young George also received fees as director of a subsidiary of Carlyle Corporation, a little known private company which has, in just a few years of its founding, become one of Americas biggest defence contractors. His father, Bush Senior, is also a paid advisor. And what became embarrassing was the revelation that the Bin Ladens held a stake in Carlyle, sold just after September 11.
ELSNER:
You have a key relationship between the Saudis and the former President of the US who happens to be the father of the current President of the US. And you have all sorts of questions about where does policy begin and where does good business and good profits for the company, Carlyle, end?
PALAST:
I received a phone call from a high-placed member of a US intelligence agency. He tells me that while there's always been constraints on investigating Saudis, under George Bush it's gotten much worse. After the elections, the agencies were told to "back off" investigating the Bin Ladens and Saudi royals, and that angered agents. I'm told that since September 11th the policy has been reversed. FBI headquarters told us they could not comment on our findings. A spokesman said: "There are lots of things that only the intelligence community knows and that no-one else ought to know.
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Jabberhead
I have posted so many questions of logic in this thread , never to have one answered.
Why , Because it makes too much sense and does not fall into line with pt1garbage.
We dont like having beliefs force fed on to us as a free society.
I think Hitler and his people started that way. You guys got a nice little circle going of conspiracy toofers.
Carry on
anyone interested in learning the facts just has to block the obvious cointelpro doofuses .... its as simple as that, it cleans up the thread and moves things along :00hour
