Attacking a Soldiers medals is attacking all Soldiers Medals

Chanman

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This sums it up best- from Chicago Sun Times

This sums it up best- from Chicago Sun Times

Truth bound to come out on Kerry's military duty

August 10, 2004

BY JOHN O'SULLIVAN

When Sen. John Kerry saluted and announced that he was "reporting for duty" at last month's Democratic Convention, he made his military record a legitimate subject of political attack and journalistic investigation. That moment was the culmination of the powerful "Vietnam theme" that has distinguished the Kerry presidential campaign from almost all recent Democratic campaigns.



He had turned around a failing primary season in Iowa with the filmed testimony of the sailor whose life he saved when he pulled him back into the swift boat in which they served. He had taken former swift boat veterans along with him on the campaign trail. And in Boston he filled the podium with these veterans and retired senior military officers to hammer home the message that the Democrats under John Kerry are safe on security. Kerry has done everything possible to reassure the voters -- and thereby to neutralize a long-standing Republican advantage -- on national security.

It was always, however, a risky strategy. After all, Kerry had first come to public prominence as a passionate anti-war protester who in congressional hearings and on television programs had accused the U.S. armed forces in Vietnam of regularly and habitually committing war crimes. There was a serious clash of narratives here: How could he both maintain the truth of his charges and take pride in his war service -- even citing it as a reason to vote for him? And if he did both, was he not asking the American people to elect a war criminal as their chief executive?

Earlier this year Kerry tried to finesse the issue by apologizing for possible exaggerations but not quite withdrawing the accusation either. But that made matters worse -- for a reason that in retrospect seems obvious but that none of the seasoned campaign professionals around Kerry apparently foresaw.

For some years many Vietnam veterans had quietly seethed at Kerry for profiting politically from his attacks on their service. Now that Kerry was in the running to become president -- while maintaining his accusations, however half-heartedly -- they were provoked into responding. The results are the book Unfit for Service, co-authored by John O'Neill, who succeeded Kerry as the swift boat captain in Vietnam, and a television ad from "Swift Boat Veterans For Truth" (www.swiftvets,com) in which former veterans who served with Kerry in Vietnam attack his record. More than 250 such veterans are claimed in support of these attacks.

These allegations against Kerry in Unfit to Serve and in supporting statements by the veterans are as numerous, specific, detailed and shameful (well, almost as shameful) as the allegations he leveled against the U.S. armed forces in the early 1970s. They include that Kerry repeatedly claimed to have fought in Cambodia on Christmas Day 1968 when all his commanding officers deny the claim; that he received a medal for a wound that was accidentally self-inflicted, and that he first left the fight before returning to save the vet whose rescue earned Kerry another medal.

These allegations are both more serious and better supported by evidence than, for instance, the claim that George W. Bush shirked his duty in the National Guard. They are exactly the kind of charges that would set off a firestorm of controversy in normal circumstances. Yet a strange nervous silence, broken only by a handful of stories and commentaries, has settled over the story.

The Kerry campaign, for very obvious reasons, is seeking to suppress the story, sending out lawyer's letters to television stations warning them against running the ad. The Bush campaign, nervous that the story will backfire, is quietly dissociating itself. Sen. John McCain is running interference for Kerry, partly out of habit, and partly because one of the financial backers of the ad also supported a dubious campaign against him in the 2004 South Carolina primary. The public understandably does not like to be told that heroes have feet of clay. And the media . . . ah, the media.

As the recent Pew poll demonstrated, there really is liberal media bias. Only 7 percent of the national press describe themselves as conservative. Establishment journalists would almost certainly prefer the swift boat allegations simply go away. But the matter is not that simple. To begin with, the press has an obligation to follow its own rules. A major story needs two sources to justify publication. These stories have more than 250 sources; they are retired senior officers; and they are not skulking in the shadows but putting their names and reputations behind the allegations.

Even if the major media decided to bury this story, they would probably not succeed -- and they know as much. The "blogosphere" -- that voluntary society of unpaid free-lance journalists -- is following the story avidly, correcting errors, producing original documents, sifting through different accounts. Some bloggers are for Kerry, some against, but all are together advancing the story by winnowing truth from falsehood. Unless the bloggers conclusively acquit Kerry before the story migrates outwards, the mainstream media will eventually be forced to devote serious resources to it.

What will they find? Until some further digging is done, no one can be sure. Kerry may indeed be fully acquitted. For what it's worth, my own view is that Kerry went out to Vietnam hoping to get a warrior's medals and credentials as the basis for a political career. He behaved bravely in some circumstances and exaggerated his bravery in others. He even took a film camera along to re-enact his heroic exploits for later campaign commercials.

He returned home, however, to find that the war had become deeply unpopular. Nothing daunted, he re-invented himself as an anti-war veteran, and prospered on that basis. In 2004, however, he was running for president in a political climate that had changed yet again -- one in which his Vietnam heroics might be usefully exploited to win patriotic marks. Where were those old medals he hadn't thrown away.
 
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Turfgrass

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Clem D said:
Do a google search on Merrie Spaeth who organized the swift boat veterans for the truth. She was married to a good old guy named Tex who worked for W in texas getting his campaign for governor together. Je actually ran on the same ticket to be lieutenant governor. His Law firm also employs the ( ring leader of the whole organization) These guys did not serve with Kerry. They just hate him or oh allegiance to George W Bush. This all came out it May, the only reason they are bringing it out again is because while it is all lies the average american redneck will not try to look up the info to dispute it and think well Go'le it must be tru the news reported it. Within a week these guys will retract but the damage is done. It is hatchet politics at it's best. It is how W has lived his life.

You seem to be quite upset that the Vietnam Veterans for Truth are being financed by a Houston homebuilder. Imagine that! What about those ads the Democrats have been running under the umbrella of those "527" organizations? What about Moveon.org? How are the ads being run by these organizations different from the ads being run by the swift boat veterans? Those ads, you see, are financed by a wealthy international financier named George Soros. Democrats have no problem with having a foreign-born international money man financing their ads slamming George Bush, but let a Texan, a Houston homebuilder, finance ads against John Kerry and it's the end of the world!

The other morning I saw Jim Rassman on television. Rassman is the man whom Kerry pulled out of the river. Rassman has been called forth by the Democrats to say that this Swift Boat Veterans for Truth advertising campaign is not very nice. Rassman said that "It's very dishonest at this stage of the game, 35 years after the fact, to call this into question. This is an example of the lowest form of politics."

Funny ... do you remember any Kerry supporters coming forth to say that very thing about Bush's National Guard service? That, too, was 35 years ago. The difference, of course, is that George Bush is not running on the record of his years in the National Guard. He's running on his years as Commander in Chief of the United States armed forces, and nobody has even whispered a suggestion that he strayed from that post. Kerry? All he has is Vietnam? He's been focusing on those four months since he announced his candidacy. OK .. so he wanted to make those four months his primary qualification for the presidency. Fine. The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are happy to rise to the challenge.
 

djv

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I hope folks are open to change. Because every thing around us changes. To just be stubborn and never understand that is failing yourself and those who count on you. Like stem cell research. Bush said again today he will not change his mind. Thats like saying what mistakes. I didn't make any. We have so many important issues. Time to look hard at them and move on from 30 years ago.
 

Eddie Haskell

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Turfgrass:

I agree with you that Bush is not running on "... the record on the record of his years in the National Guard." Wonder why?

Obviously, if Bush, priviledged and protected, would have served (instead of being served in that bar in Alabama) in Viet Nam you would see endless shots of Georgie boy stumbling out of the jungle.

The only photographs you are likely to see of George in the 60's are him stumbling out of a bar. The point is that each candidate emphasizes his strengths and covers his weaknesses. The perception of Kerry is that he would not be tough on terror. Therefore, the playup as a war hero. Not rocket science.

Eddie
 

ocelot

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Good point Eddie. Once again, its okay for George to be a reformed drunk and drug abuser but Kerry can't be allowed to alter any of his opinions as he grows older. Just more of the old double-standard.
 

Turfgrass

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ocelot said:
Good point Eddie. Once again, its okay for George to be a reformed drunk and drug abuser but Kerry can't be allowed to alter any of his opinions as he grows older. Just more of the old double-standard.

And Vice versa...
 

Turfgrass

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Reverse the situation. If Bush were the Democrat, and Kerry were the Republican, the mainstream media would be erupting in a chorus of demands today for a full investigation of the charges that Kerry's first Purple Heart came from a self-inflicted wound. They would want all of the details about Kerry's alleged torching of an entire Vietnamese village with his Zippo, and the charge that he shot a fleeing Vietnamese teenager wearing only a loin cloth in the back. The Democrats would be demanding an investigation because of the "seriousness of the charge." The double standard is clear.
 

djv

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Not necessarily Turf. Sometimes it's how they act and bring on there own crap. When they get so full of them selfs and just think all is well. Look Out.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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JIM RASSMANN Questions I'd like to ask him per his "non political" agenda as he would have some to believe.

"While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, a mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath. When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks.
" Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around."
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Just how long can you hold your breath and what did you think about Kerry and crew leaving you?
--and if they were gone how did they see you?and Kerry inparticular??


"John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.

For his actions that day, I recommended John for the Silver Star, our country's third highest award for bravery under fire.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ya "already wounded" was this the supposed self inflicted scratch or one of the others. If none of the 3 required stictches how does anyone know?--and you nominated him for the 3rd highest decoration because after they initially leave you they come back and pull you out of the water. If you think that action even closly warrents nomination for Silver Star I know medics that should have been nominated for a truck load daily.---and just how many of his crew in his time there were "seriously" wounded or killed? Luckiest crew I ever saw that all wounds are superficial with all this intense fire directed at them.

"I am neither a politician nor an organizer."
======
--but have been beside him at rallys, convention ect throughout his campaign.

"Nobody asked me to join John's campaign. Why would they? I am a Republican"
=============
--and DJV voted for Bush last election :)

"Their new charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam. They insult and defame all of us who served in Vietnam. "
------------
Yep you spent what one mission with him and you know him better than those in other units that traveled in his group the short time he was there.
---and if you want to know who insulted us and defamed us try reading his book,the one that has picture of viet vets holding and flag flying upside down (alla Iwajima)--you f--cking clown.--of course what would one expect from one who nominates someone for silver star because he comes back and gets him rather than let him drown. Kinda like Sandusky referring to him "being shot" three times.
You can pull the wool over the passive's eyes but your shit won't float with those that been there.

You didn't have to spend Christmas with him in Cambodia like he so passionately told the press and Senate committee. :142lmao:
 
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shamrock

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dtb, man you have a hair across your ass about this guy, let it go. Even O'Reilly (the ultra right) likes the Senator. Obviously he'll vote Bush, but he likes the Senator and he knows him personally.

These cheap attacks are getting old, how about Kerry gets the Maine State trooper that arrested bush for dwi. Or better we find why his driving record has been erased in Texas & by who? How many drunken incidence in that State? How about we find & interview some of his cocaine buddies, maybe (Bush cocaine buddies for truth). How about press interviews mother of kid Mrs. Bush kills barrel assing through stop signs. Everybody has their shitt, why can't republicans run a positive campaign, always as to be Willie Horton or Swift boats or blow jobs or some dam thing. Other than the issues.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Yes I do Shamrock.--and somewhat for personal reasons.---and you are correct that O'Reilly has stood up for him in recent interviews with Sandusky-Rassmusan-the guy on Kerry's ship that dissed him.(can't remember his name) and all others concerning this matter.--and I have taken issue with Mr O in emails to him also as I am adamant about this issue. If you'll remember when he was campaigning for Dem nominations many months back I said this issue would come back to haunt him.
You might not know it but while Kerry's people are trying to instill on the American public that none of these men involved in this ad or book writing were on "his boat" what they fail to tell you is 60 of these signees served directly in the units involved with him daily or were his commanding officers.(more on this tomorrow) and while evryone has book to write in order to cash in on any political conflict of interest you might like to know O'neil is giving 100% of any money he earns to service connected charities.
Once again when Kerry decided to run his entire campaign on military issue he opened a can of worms---
But then again what else does he have to run on? Certainly not any endeavors in privite life as he has no accomplishments other than marrying those that have--he certainly has not and won't refer to any of his records in politics in past 20 years as they are totally opposite of what he is trying to project now.
 

Eddie Haskell

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One of the few times I will agree with Wayne. Shamrock, he feels passionately that Bush is the better man. You have to respect that. Unfortuneately, Wayne is misguided but nonetheless passionate.

His feelings about Kerry are mirrored by my feelings about Bush. Lets look in the mirror Wayne as to each point you made. Kerry runs his campaign on his military record (by the way, I disagree that he is running on his record), Bush obviously cannot. Strong point for Kerry, weak point for Bush.

You attempt to undermine Kerry's strong point, I attempt to emphasize Bush's weak point. That according to you, is how Kerry is running his campaign. Now lets look at how Bush is running his campaign. In my view, he is using scare tactics to reinforce his position as the candidate stronger on terrorist issues.

Whether is the newest shade in terror alerts or subtle reminders of 9-11, he is using the fear of terrorist strikes in the USA to emphasize his strong point and highlight Kerry's weak point. It is true that Kerrys reponse to the real or fabricated terror issues is unknown and we all know Bush's response.

However, is the issue real or political. Are terrorists out there, of course. But is Bush using this for political gain. Each of us will come down on the other side of this question based upon our philosophies.

Lawsuits, lawyers, poluters, corporate america, womens rights, death penalty, abortion, and all the other issues facing this country are difficult especially when you have a divided country (which by the way helps your side).

A real good example of division v. cooperation is that Florida power plant issue previously discussed where Bush relaxed regulations on energy companies after a model plan had been used in Florida where everybody, environmentalists, company officials, residents, and shareholders were happy. This plan could have been used as a model for this issue but then Bush pulled back the regulations which was the only hammer that could be used against the power companies.

I think the division started with the Republican congress in the mid-90's with that Contract with America thingy. Prior to that deals were made, give and take, etc. However, I believe your side created the animosity that both sides feel today. I would rather go back to back room deals and cooperation that we had back then, as opposed to this fundamentalist, "we're right and your wrong" approach employed by your party, the current administration and the supporters of both.

Eddie
 

ocelot

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Why can't the Neo-Cons just have a single real issue to talk about in this campaign? All we hear about is Kerry's war record which is so vastly superior to Georgie's that this is a big loser for Bush side to even bring up.

Bogart-in' and walking around like a puffed up little bantam rooster trying to John Wayne it isn't going to cut it.

MOST of this country seems to be awakening to the fact that we need some minimal level of intelligence in the President's office.
 

djv

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I see the Doc in that add that says. I treated John Kerrys wound.
Well it seems now that is not the case. He did look at his medical record. But he never treated any of Kerrys wounds.
 

djv

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Hannity, and the Matthews shows last night stated this. And Imus in the morning show this morning. I assume they have it right.
 

Turfgrass

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From what I've heard, it seems that Lawyers for the Democratic Party and the Kerry/Edwards campaign are sending letters to television stations threatening them with legal action if they run the ad from the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. In the letter to television stations the Democratic lawyers have a few things to say about Dr. Letson and that particular incident.

In that threatening letter to television station managers the Democrat lawyers even charge that Letson is a "phony" doctor. This tactic seems to be working. But, Louis Letson has confirmed that he was, indeed, a doctor, and was the only physician serving in that particular region of Vietnam. Letson also said that it was his practice to have one of his assistants sign all of the records for treatment received at the dispensary. Further, Letson said that the person who signed Kerry's treatment record was NOT, as the Democrat's letter states, a physician, but was in effect a medic.

So what did Hannity, Matthews, and Imus say exactly?
 

Eddie Haskell

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Frankly, Turfgrass, I think that adds credence to Kerry's position. Look, Bush family campaign history is not the prettiest. That family is known for using any tactics to destroy the competition. Ask McCain, Gore, Dukakis, etc.

In a presidential race this hotly contested with an electorate so evenly divided, do you think this leopard will change his spots. Absolutely not. Bush and his 527 are behind the attack on Kerry's character evidenced by Bush's refusal to refute VVAK ads.

If these ads are indeed false, Kerrys side should sue to stop them since the stakes are so high. Gives more support to Kerry's position as why would he sue if he knew that the truth was something other than what he has portrayed.

If so, he would kill any chance he has of being elected. Or should he allow the Bush family to attack his character the same way they attacked the character of McCain, Gore and Dukakis. We all know the results of those character assinations.

Eddie
 

djv

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Eddie you are correct. At the coffee shop today a couple of folks saw that add. Witch there running all over our state of Wisc. They said that was last straw there not voting for Bush this time.
The one had seen the Hannity show last night and said what it said above. This doc never treated Kerry as he states in the add. He did however see his medical record. That is to different things forsure. Both these guys are around my age so were old and dumb. But were not fooled easy.
 
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