/google`s gettin` a workout tonight...
It always does when you're talking about regions of the world that you have no idea about start hitting the front pages
bobby..help a brother out,please
- Thread starter gardenweasel
- Start date
It always does when you're talking about regions of the world that you have no idea about start hitting the front pages
Yeah, we know what your answer is because you're a frightened little chickenhawk. On the "NK sets off nuke" thread, you argued that it's time Japan goes nuclear to deter the "Norks". Nevermind the fact that it would violate their own Constitution and that 82% of Japan's citizens oppose it. Then there's China... the LAST thing China wants is a nuclear armed Japan. But in your warped view of the world, it doesn't matter what 1.3 billion Chinese and 100 million Japanese want. It's all about alleviating YOUR fears.
i`m not surprised...to the left,a nation defending itself against bullies and provocateurs is a foreign concept...
do they really have a choice?...once n.k. is capable of having nukes on their missiles,then japan and south korea will have no choice but to counter that with an equal or greater nuclear strike capability.....a stalemate....
or would you rather the u.s. continue as the world`s policeman,fighting everyone else`s battles?...
make up your mind...
do you know anything about this situation?.....obviously not...
you`re obviously not aware that n.korea has fired 6 missiles(including one nuclear test),some traveling over the island of japan... in the last week!...they have threatened war with south korea....
how many more n. korean missiles does japan have to accept flying over their country?..
they aren`t stopping in their pursuit of,not only nuclear weapons,but the pursuit of a means of delivering them....
do you get that?...
the norks have something like 10k conventional medium- and short-range missiles pointed at every elementary school and bowling alley in south korea, primed, prepped and ready to launch in a matter of minutes....alll along and behind the border.
this has been the case for years and years....
so - preemptive strike = our allies flattened....capice?...not an option...
n.korea is a client state of china...if china says jump,n. korea says "how high?"..china feeds and clothes n. korea while kim jong il puts much of whatever resources n. korea has into building weapons systems...they are among the poorest,most poverty stricken people in the world because of kim jong il...
as of this writing,n. korea is a grave danger to japan and s. kores...not to mention a poor,backward country who`s main export is weapons systems to anti-western nations...
the way to get n.korea to stop all this nonsense is to get china to put their foot down on all this bad behavior.........but as we speak,china has no impetus to stop n. korea...i`m pretty sure china loves seeing n. korea being such a problem to the west and it`s westernized neighbors...
so,the way to give s.korea and japan some relief from this dictator,is to give japan and s.korea the greenlight to move ahead with re-building their own military...
maybe if china understands that s.korea and japan have no choice other than to defend themselves,they`ll finally put their foot down on n. korea`s neck...
and lo and behold,maybe the sleeping giants are waking up...this today:
http://www.japantoday.com/category/...ty-to-strike-enemy-bases-in-defense-ldp-panel
maybe it`s so in your world,but not everybody lets the bully take their lunch money...
it`s about time,isn`t it?...
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i was kidding with kosar..
speak for yourself,bobby......or if you have nothing of substance to add,might be a good idea to stfu....which you seldom miss the opportunity to do,of late..
ya think?...
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the ability to recognize a good idea from someone you don't like is lost art for many....:sadwave:
Gee, no I wasn't aware of that... because... I've been in a coma for the past week and I just now snapped out of it. Thanks for clueing me in. Got news for chickenhawks like you Weasel... you're an anachronism. Your cold-war mentality doesn't wash anymore. You need to come to terms with that.
no problem...i don`t mind a bit if it helps keep your keening in check...:toast:
weasel, why don't u come to Belterra so you can hash it out with all these left-wing whack-jobs?
What about em Weisy--all in the eye of the beholder--while some found events like this encouraging in 07--
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2007/07/120_6585.html
<TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width=468 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD background=/www/news/images/view_title.gif><TABLE height=20 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left height=30></TD></TR><TR><TD class=style7 align=middle height=70>UN Watchdog Confirms Shutdown of NK Reactor </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2007/07/120_6585.html
<TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width=468 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD background=/www/news/images/view_title.gif><TABLE height=20 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left height=30></TD></TR><TR><TD class=style7 align=middle height=70>UN Watchdog Confirms Shutdown of NK Reactor </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>U.N. inspectors have verified that North Korea has shut down its sole functioning nuclear reactor, news reports said Monday.
``Our inspectors are there. They verified the shutting down of the reactor yesterday,'' said the Associated Press quoted Mohamed ElBaradei, chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency, as saying.
``The process has been going quite well and we have had good cooperation from North Korea. It's a good step in the right direction,'' ElBaradei said, speaking in Bangkok ahead of an event sponsored by Thailand's Science
Ministry, according to the AP--
====================
--appears today are finding the 3rd missle test and nukes set off reason to cheer. Have been trying to decide why NK/Iran has ratcheted up the rhetoric and actions since O took over.
IMO either they saw Gumby's handjob to Chavez @ UN or his immediate wilt on missle defence at Russia's beckoning as sign of weakness--or they want to get some of that U.S. gov bailout cheese that Bill and Madeline gave them before we are declared bankrupt.
--or maybe they see the obvious--
After guadrupling debt with social programs and bailouts and education/healthcare debt still to be added-
We can't remotely pay debt now let alone fund any new militatry operation or other catasprophes.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>``Our inspectors are there. They verified the shutting down of the reactor yesterday,'' said the Associated Press quoted Mohamed ElBaradei, chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency, as saying.
``The process has been going quite well and we have had good cooperation from North Korea. It's a good step in the right direction,'' ElBaradei said, speaking in Bangkok ahead of an event sponsored by Thailand's Science
Ministry, according to the AP--
====================
--appears today are finding the 3rd missle test and nukes set off reason to cheer. Have been trying to decide why NK/Iran has ratcheted up the rhetoric and actions since O took over.
IMO either they saw Gumby's handjob to Chavez @ UN or his immediate wilt on missle defence at Russia's beckoning as sign of weakness--or they want to get some of that U.S. gov bailout cheese that Bill and Madeline gave them before we are declared bankrupt.
--or maybe they see the obvious--
After guadrupling debt with social programs and bailouts and education/healthcare debt still to be added-
We can't remotely pay debt now let alone fund any new militatry operation or other catasprophes.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
What about em Weisy--all in the eye of the beholder--while some found events like this encouraging in 07--
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2007/07/120_6585.html
<TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width=468 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD background=/www/news/images/view_title.gif><TABLE height=20 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left height=30></TD></TR><TR><TD class=style7 align=middle height=70>UN Watchdog Confirms Shutdown of NK Reactor </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>U.N. inspectors have verified that North Korea has shut down its sole functioning nuclear reactor, news reports said Monday.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
``Our inspectors are there. They verified the shutting down of the reactor yesterday,'' said the Associated Press quoted Mohamed ElBaradei, chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency, as saying.
``The process has been going quite well and we have had good cooperation from North Korea. It's a good step in the right direction,'' ElBaradei said, speaking in Bangkok ahead of an event sponsored by Thailand's Science
Ministry, according to the AP--
====================
--appears today are finding the 3rd missle test and nukes set off reason to cheer. Have been trying to decide why NK/Iran has ratcheted up the rhetoric and actions since O took over.
IMO either they saw Gumby's handjob to Chavez @ UN or his immediate wilt on missle defence at Russia's beckoning as sign of weakness--or they want to get some of that U.S. gov bailout cheese that Bill and Madeline gave them before we are declared bankrupt.
--or maybe they see the obvious--
After guadrupling debt with social programs and bailouts and education/healthcare debt still to be added-
We can't remotely pay debt now let alone fund any new militatry operation or other catasprophes.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-894651.html
they let us inspect what they want us to see(much like saddam).....
very effective...:thumb:
Thanks for that timely update Weez. Keep googling and by all means, let us know if you find anything post-1994.
That's just good investigative journalism there Weez. I think you missed your calling. :142smilie
First of all, let me say I'm no expert on this situation, I am pretty uneducated about these countries and their policies, other than what I've briefly read when something like this crops up. That being said, I'd like to ask you Wease, do you think it's prudent at this time for the U.S. to endanger the steps we are currently taking with China to improve relations, work on the financial struggles they literally hold a stake in, get them to change their view on environmental and social issues, all of that, by helping China and South Korea go nuclear? And how exactly do we do that? Where are they going to get the "stuff" to get that program going? In Japan's case, as was mentioned here, and I have since read more on, they have a governmental view of defense-only, and nuclear proliferation hardly fits that mode. They could certainly change that outlook, and maybe should, but we will certainly play a large role in that happening.
Do you think it's more important at this point in time to piss off China - maybe to the point of causing a REAL conflict that could endanger our citizens - by helping these countries "defend" themselves? I think we've all seen how quickly China can turn aggressive and cold to us, and they hold a lot of our financial system in their hands, frankly. They could make things very tough on our country, both financially and militarily. And certainly, they are closer to having strong allies like Russia take their side than we are, unless (IMO) Obama can repair relations in that arena as well.
You guys are railing on Obama and his seeming weakness abroad on these issues. I maintain he is repairing a lot of damage that had been done previously. China is certainly a big dog, and things do seem to be improving there - whether real or not, I don't know. But to take an aggressive position to help states close to them go nuclear - and possibly postal, for lack of another word - just seems EXTREMELY short sighted, with far worse repercussions short and long term for our country.
I also find it funny that you ask people if they'd rather the U.S. continues being the world's policeman. Who in the Hell do you think escalated THAT role for our country? Clinton? Obama? Hmm...if not them, then what other name comes to mind... hmm... here's a hint... you can use the same first name and have two chances to get the answer right.
Do you think it's more important at this point in time to piss off China - maybe to the point of causing a REAL conflict that could endanger our citizens - by helping these countries "defend" themselves? I think we've all seen how quickly China can turn aggressive and cold to us, and they hold a lot of our financial system in their hands, frankly. They could make things very tough on our country, both financially and militarily. And certainly, they are closer to having strong allies like Russia take their side than we are, unless (IMO) Obama can repair relations in that arena as well.
You guys are railing on Obama and his seeming weakness abroad on these issues. I maintain he is repairing a lot of damage that had been done previously. China is certainly a big dog, and things do seem to be improving there - whether real or not, I don't know. But to take an aggressive position to help states close to them go nuclear - and possibly postal, for lack of another word - just seems EXTREMELY short sighted, with far worse repercussions short and long term for our country.
I also find it funny that you ask people if they'd rather the U.S. continues being the world's policeman. Who in the Hell do you think escalated THAT role for our country? Clinton? Obama? Hmm...if not them, then what other name comes to mind... hmm... here's a hint... you can use the same first name and have two chances to get the answer right.
Yeah, we know what your answer is because you're a frightened little chickenhawk. On the "NK sets off nuke" thread, you argued that it's time Japan goes nuclear to deter the "Norks". Nevermind the fact that it would violate their own Constitution and that 82% of Japan's citizens oppose it. Then there's China... the LAST thing China wants is a nuclear armed Japan. But in your warped view of the world, it doesn't matter what 1.3 billion Chinese and 100 million Japanese want. It's all about alleviating YOUR fears.
The last thing most of eastern Asia wants is a militarized Japan AGAIN. Japan so dominated and brutalized that part of the world for the first half of the 20th century. No one wants the old Japan to return.
1931 Japan's influence over Manchuria had been steadily growing since the end of the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-05. When the Chinese Nationalists began to seriously challenge Japan's position in Manchuria in 1931, the Kwantung Army (Japanese armed forces in Manchuria) occupied Manchuria. In the following year, "Manchukuo" was declared an independent state, controlled by the Kwantung Army through a puppet government. In the same year, the Japanese air force bombarded Shanghai in order to protect Japanese residents from anti Japanese movements. In 1937 Japanese forces succeeded in occupying almost the whole coast of China and committed severe war atrocities on the Chinese population, especially during the fall of the capital Nanking. In 1940, Japan occupied French Indochina (Vietnam). Japan decide to capture the oil rich Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) and to start a war with the US and Great Britain. 1941, Japan attacked the Allied powers at Pearl Harbor and several other points throughout the Pacific. Japan was able to expand her control over a large territory that expanded to the border of India in the West and New Guinea in the South within the following six months.
read more at;
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2129.html
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japan`s a f-cking full fledged democracy now...this isn`t 1931!?!?.....when was the last time one democracy attacked another?....
why should communist china and a dictatorship in n.korea be the only nations in asia with a formidable military?...
your logic(poor choice of words)is insane...
put down the pipe....
History has shown that ?full fledged democracies? are fragile and can be over turned if the conditions are right, look at pre-empire Rome (before Julius Caesar), and Germany. Germany was a full fledged democracy after WWI and that government was perverted back to a militaristic government worse that the German Empire that got it into WWI in the first place. Japan could very easily stumble down that path as well. Yes Japan is a full-fledged democracy RIGHT NOW, however we are talking about a county that has over a thousand years of military type rule and has never been invaded or conquered before the 20th century.
Also your quote ?when was the last time one democracy attacked another??, are you implying that China, Vietnam, Cambodia, and North Korea are all fellow democracies too? I?d look that up if I were you, those countries are communist regimes ranging from mild (China) to nightmare police state (NK).
All I?m saying is that just because it?s a democracy today, doesn?t mean it will be tomorrow.
China is in a tough spot already, they don?t really care for that regime in power in NK, however that last thing they want is millions of starving militaristic NK?s streaming over their border into China. NK is a ticking time bomb for the Chinese too. Russia doesn?t want any more nukes in their back yard as well. That includes a nuclear armed Japan and SK.
Diplomacy is the only option at this time, as long as bullets aren?t flying, no one is dying.
And a re-run of the Korean war would be a huge blood bath. My father and my father in law where there. Very nasty brutal war, lots of civilians on both sides died.
