Same here. I thought Matthysse won a close fight, but with those judges... Thing is, the early rounds count as much as the later ones do in scoring, and I thought Zab swept the early ones. But still, Matthysse was coming on so strongly down the stretch, and plus the knockdown. I think there is little doubt as to who 'really' won the fight. Matthysse so much stronger at the end. I actually had it 115-112 Matthysse. Back in the old 15 round days, Zab would've never made it. Hard to swallow loss for M backers.
Boxing 11/5 - 11/8
- Thread starter Ghost Kid
- Start date
Same here. I thought Matthysse won a close fight, but with those judges... Thing is, the early rounds count as much as the later ones do in scoring, and I thought Zab swept the early ones. But still, Matthysse was coming on so strongly down the stretch, and plus the knockdown. I think there is little doubt as to who 'really' won the fight. Matthysse so much stronger at the end. I actually had it 115-112 Matthysse. Back in the old 15 round days, Zab would've never made it. Hard to swallow loss for M backers.
- Jun 23, 2008
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I would like to see the official cards on this one.
The judge who had it 115-112 for Judah - this boggles my mind. I scored rounds 3 and 4 for Matt based on very effective body work. But obviously those are up for some debate.
What isn't is the last 4, where Matt beat Zab all over the ring, including a knockdown. No judge could give Judah any of these rounds - not even Ray Charles.
So did the 115-112 Judah card have Judah up 8 to zero ? I mean that seems impossible to me.
I'm not sure what is more criminal. Having it 8 to zero - or the other option is that he gave Zab a few of the last rounds. ZAB DID NOT WIN ANY OF THE FINAL THIRD OF THE BOUT.
The judge who had it 115-112 for Judah - this boggles my mind. I scored rounds 3 and 4 for Matt based on very effective body work. But obviously those are up for some debate.
What isn't is the last 4, where Matt beat Zab all over the ring, including a knockdown. No judge could give Judah any of these rounds - not even Ray Charles.
So did the 115-112 Judah card have Judah up 8 to zero ? I mean that seems impossible to me.
I'm not sure what is more criminal. Having it 8 to zero - or the other option is that he gave Zab a few of the last rounds. ZAB DID NOT WIN ANY OF THE FINAL THIRD OF THE BOUT.
Judah-Matthysse: How the judges saw it
Judah-Matthysse: How the judges saw it
OK, I got the round-by-round scoring from NJ, Ghost. (All three judges made the 10th a 10-8 round for Matthysse, of course.)
Waleska Roldan, the woman judge who I believe got it right, gave Matthysse rounds 6, 7, 9, 10, 11 and 12.
Joe Pasquale: Rounds 6, 9, 10, 11 and 12 to Matthysse.
Hilton Whitaker: Rounds 4, 6, 10, 11 and 12 to Matthysse.
If Whitaker had given the ninth round to Matthysse, in line with the other two judges, Matthysse would have got the win. That's boxing.
Judah-Matthysse: How the judges saw it
OK, I got the round-by-round scoring from NJ, Ghost. (All three judges made the 10th a 10-8 round for Matthysse, of course.)
Waleska Roldan, the woman judge who I believe got it right, gave Matthysse rounds 6, 7, 9, 10, 11 and 12.
Joe Pasquale: Rounds 6, 9, 10, 11 and 12 to Matthysse.
Hilton Whitaker: Rounds 4, 6, 10, 11 and 12 to Matthysse.
If Whitaker had given the ninth round to Matthysse, in line with the other two judges, Matthysse would have got the win. That's boxing.
- Jun 23, 2008
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Thanks Graham.
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Oh this is just heartbreaking to see though.
Whitaker didn't give the Argentine the 9th ! Criminal !
yet Whitaker was the only judge to give Matthysse the 4th !
A round I thought Matthysse definitely won.
Hard to believe that, entering round 6, the Argentine was down 5-0, 5-0, and 4-1 on the cards. in my opinion that is complete neglect of some very good early body work by Matthysse.
The GLARING issue though, as you pointed out Graham, is Whitaker not awarding the 9th to Matthysse. Gut-wrenching. Yuck.
Thanks for posting the info !
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i defy anybody to go back and watch the 9th and find a way to give it to judah...letterman did....
he literally chased judah around the ring and outworked him 3-1....
theres a terrible mindset with boxing announcers and judges....they come into a bout with a preconceived mindset and it takes the literal brutalization of a fighter or a second party to smack them to get them to snap out of it...we saw that saturday night with antonio tarver having to smack the totally inept al bernstein out of his trance...
not only do i believe(and i had nothing on the fight) that matthysse comfortably won...he easily outworked judah who mostly only landed jabs cleanly and spent prolonged periods of the fight doing literally nothing more than posing......all you had to do was look at their faces(matthysse,who was lumped up by harris in roughly 4 rounds,was basically unscathed...judah,sans the headbutt,was lumped up pretty significantly)...
i believe i heard bernstein mention that "the experts" didn`t think that matthysse "would be around in the later rounds"..well al,try watching the fight objectively...that`s supposed to be your job...
all you had to do to realize who won that fight was to look at the body language of both guys...
these people can`t watch a fight objectively...everything happens based on preconceived notions...it`s in their dna,apparently...
i`d much rather see matthysse fight again than judah...who was supposedly in "peak" condition after a long,successful training camp...
just my opinion....
he literally chased judah around the ring and outworked him 3-1....
theres a terrible mindset with boxing announcers and judges....they come into a bout with a preconceived mindset and it takes the literal brutalization of a fighter or a second party to smack them to get them to snap out of it...we saw that saturday night with antonio tarver having to smack the totally inept al bernstein out of his trance...
not only do i believe(and i had nothing on the fight) that matthysse comfortably won...he easily outworked judah who mostly only landed jabs cleanly and spent prolonged periods of the fight doing literally nothing more than posing......all you had to do was look at their faces(matthysse,who was lumped up by harris in roughly 4 rounds,was basically unscathed...judah,sans the headbutt,was lumped up pretty significantly)...
i believe i heard bernstein mention that "the experts" didn`t think that matthysse "would be around in the later rounds"..well al,try watching the fight objectively...that`s supposed to be your job...
all you had to do to realize who won that fight was to look at the body language of both guys...
these people can`t watch a fight objectively...everything happens based on preconceived notions...it`s in their dna,apparently...
i`d much rather see matthysse fight again than judah...who was supposedly in "peak" condition after a long,successful training camp...
just my opinion....
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Wasn't it Lampley?
Wasn't it Lampley?
I think it was HBO's Jim Lampley who made that quote about "experts" believing Matthysse wouldn't be around in the later rounds. Al B. works for the "other side" (Showtime). I re-watched several key rounds last night and am more certain than ever that Matthysse won. I think Judah got that fight on "name value" as much as anything: the judges couldn't believe that the big-name guy was getting outworked by someone they probably hadn't even heard of until the fight was announced. The commentators often convey a poor impression of what is happening in the ring, agreed,and that goes for the lot of them (well, maybe with very few exceptions).
Wasn't it Lampley?
I think it was HBO's Jim Lampley who made that quote about "experts" believing Matthysse wouldn't be around in the later rounds. Al B. works for the "other side" (Showtime). I re-watched several key rounds last night and am more certain than ever that Matthysse won. I think Judah got that fight on "name value" as much as anything: the judges couldn't believe that the big-name guy was getting outworked by someone they probably hadn't even heard of until the fight was announced. The commentators often convey a poor impression of what is happening in the ring, agreed,and that goes for the lot of them (well, maybe with very few exceptions).
- Jun 23, 2008
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Yes, weasel meant Lampley. I agree totally with both of GW and Graham.
I watched it again as well, and not only is giving Judah the 9th CRIMINAL, but I really think a good argument can be made for Matthysse in the 3rd and 4th.
It is amazing that Judah was declared the winner of this bout - but boxing amazes me all the time.
I'm still pretty gutted about this one - was quite a money swing for me.
I watched it again as well, and not only is giving Judah the 9th CRIMINAL, but I really think a good argument can be made for Matthysse in the 3rd and 4th.
It is amazing that Judah was declared the winner of this bout - but boxing amazes me all the time.
I'm still pretty gutted about this one - was quite a money swing for me.
- Jun 23, 2008
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this from Ricardo Conde a fightnews writer from Oxnard, CA:
Talked to Lucas Matthysse after his fight with Zab Judah, "Everyone who saw the fight knows who the real winner of the fight was"
"I landed more, I knocked him down, I beat him up, I won the fight" said Matthysse.
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Talked to Lucas Matthysse after his fight with Zab Judah, "Everyone who saw the fight knows who the real winner of the fight was"
"I landed more, I knocked him down, I beat him up, I won the fight" said Matthysse.
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sorry...i was thinking about the showtime fights and tarver actually having the temerity to disagree with bernstein....:0008
my bad...
Would be nice if Lamp put a name on some of these so called "experts". I knew little of Mattyhsse but nothing led me to believe that it was going to be an early night for Zab. Historically, Argentineans are incredibly tough, strong and very durable . Zab knew from the get go that the guy had real pop and would have been foolish for him to let his shots rip. It's a fight that zab needed to box, move and give angles from beginning til end. As far as I'm concerned, Lamp is nothing but a glorified cheerleader. Mathysse was putting the body work into the bank each round and it seems like nobody was picking up on it.
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