Boxing 5/16 - 5/20

[Oddessa]

Here's the only the rules that would hold court for this bout:

California
No standing 8 count
No 3 Knockdown rule
Fighter can be saved by the bell in the last round only
10 point must system is in effect
Only the referee can stop the fight
Fight stopped due to accidental head butt:
Technical Draw up to and including the third round
Goes to the scorecard after the third round

or

WBA (WBA Fedelatin Bantamweight Title)
No standing 8 count
3 Knockdown rule is in effect
Fighter can be saved by the bell in the last round only
10 point must system is in effect
Only the referee can stop the fight
3 judges score
Accidental head butt:
Technical Draw up to the end of the fourth round
Goes to the scorecard after the fourth round

or

Unified Championship Rules
No standing 8 count
No 3 Knockdown rule
Fighter cannot be saved by the bell in any round
10 point must system is in effect
Only the referee can stop the fight
Fight stopped due to accidental head butt:
Technical Draw up to and including the fourth round
Goes to the scorecard after the fourth round

I didnt offer this bout anywhere I do work with, but a NO CONTEST and TECH DRAW are not the same thing and thats why that incident is defined in the rules of every state, commision, country and sanctioning body.

It goes down as a real bad beat.

I have every rule for all the above on my computer because I always read them before I fire into sportsbooks 'to win' proposition bets.

 

[LA Burns]

Any advice in regards to whether Juarez/Barrera will go the distance? From Boxlocks or anyone out there? Can get by decision for -130

Thanks in advance if anyone has input

 

[BRUSHMAN]

Fight is over!!!Barrera got the TKO in the first.

 

[IX_Bender]

LMAO

4

Count them 4 total punches landed.

2 by each.

 

[LA Burns]

end of round 11 was incredible

 

[LA Burns]

don't watch too many fights, but that was one of the better contests I have seen in some time - juarez looks like he might make some serious noise down the road

 

[gardenweasel]

barrera wins by split nod....

they added up the cards incorrectly......

i have to say,it`s not rocket science to add up scorecards in a 10 point must.....10-9...9/10...10/9.....no knockdowns...probably no 10-8 rounds..no point deductions.....

simple,right?.....

use a ****ing calculator...and get someone to double check it....

this kind of stuff stinks to high heaven....

it could have gone either way....juarez doesn`t lack heart...he does lack want to(work rate)..he battered barrera...hurt him much more than vice-versa...

whereas a guy like barrera has that special something that separates the great from the really goods...

curious to see how the books grade this one out...

 

[inzone]

I hope there shouldnt be a problem for barrera backers, it should be graded as a split.

But looking at the score cards on fightnews it looks like they change two 9s to two 10s in the last round for barrera, that looks really bad. I just dont uncerstand how you can change a number.

 

[UT-Longhorn]

so who won?

 

[BOXLOCKS]

so who won?

Barrera by split decision...my books graded it a winner

 

[frank s.]

Thomas & Mack

Thomas & Mack

I haven't there in a while. Myself, I would just grab a seating chart on-line first off. I would then show up an hour early and get ticks from scalpers. This fight, in my opinion, really isn't a huge draw so there should be some availability. I'm a little surprised it's at the T&M. It's possible, if you play dimes at the tables or sportsbook, to ask for comp ticks. The casinos always have handfulls of these things laying around for players. Other than that, if one of my contacts wasn't on duty working the fight, I would not even bother, as this fight really doesn't interest me personally. GL.

 

[BOXLOCKS]

Here's the only the rules that would hold court for this bout:

California
No standing 8 count
No 3 Knockdown rule
Fighter can be saved by the bell in the last round only
10 point must system is in effect
Only the referee can stop the fight
Fight stopped due to accidental head butt:
Technical Draw up to and including the third round
Goes to the scorecard after the third round

or

WBA (WBA Fedelatin Bantamweight Title)
No standing 8 count
3 Knockdown rule is in effect
Fighter can be saved by the bell in the last round only
10 point must system is in effect
Only the referee can stop the fight
3 judges score
Accidental head butt:
Technical Draw up to the end of the fourth round
Goes to the scorecard after the fourth round

or

Unified Championship Rules
No standing 8 count
No 3 Knockdown rule
Fighter cannot be saved by the bell in any round
10 point must system is in effect
Only the referee can stop the fight
Fight stopped due to accidental head butt:
Technical Draw up to and including the fourth round
Goes to the scorecard after the fourth round

I didnt offer this bout anywhere I do work with, but a NO CONTEST and TECH DRAW are not the same thing and thats why that incident is defined in the rules of every state, commision, country and sanctioning body.

It goes down as a real bad beat.

I have every rule for all the above on my computer because I always read them before I fire into sportsbooks 'to win' proposition bets.

I appreciate the info, but I still don't see the difference between a 2nd round tech draw and a no contest. The fight didn't go the required # of rounds so it didn't go to the scorecards, its that simple and thats exactly what a no contest is.

Now if the fight goes past 4 rounds, then a tech draw IS different than a no contest b/c it went the required # of rounds, went to the scorecards, and was judged a draw. Thats completely different and proves that the "labeling system" is flawed. You can't call two different things the same name, a 2nd round tech draw is completely different than a 8th round tech draw, so they shouldn't be considered or labeled the same thing.

If each state is going to have a different name for the exact same situation, the books need to adjust their grading rules to be consistent with what happened in the ring. Here's why...


If a fight is stopped on cuts inside of 4 rounds in one state, I get no-action on my wager

If the exact same thing happens in a different state, my wager is graded a loser just b/c they label it wrong


Absolute Bullsh*t

 

[Oddessa]

I see your labeling arguement, but not much more. The commsions and states need to unify, not the sportsbooks.

The rules of boxing have been in place for years. If you go overseas the differences from country to country are often extreme.

The books simply go with whatever the OFFICIAL result of the bout is. If its a NC then its no actioned. If its a TECH DRAW within 4 rds or after then its a TECH Draw. His record reads Draw on that bout, so no actioning it or anything different would be criminal on the books part.

I didnt offer this bout so I had no direct interest in the result. So my opinion is nuetral.

 

[gardenweasel]

let me preface this by saying i had a very small throw away bet on juarez....so i didn`t care who won...i can see barrera getting the nod due to his work rate....i`d have given him a very close decision....

i could also see someone giving the bout to juarez for forcing the fight and the damage he did.....


but.....

my beef is with this scorecard change...

i find this whole score card miscalculation suspicious......it's almost unbelievable,if what i read is true....

they take forever to tally the cards and then get it wrong........it`s not hard to add totals and have someone double check it......

if you look at the actual score card, morita`s card is actually changed in the 12th from 9 points with barerra equaling 114 to 10 points equaling 115 ... giving barerra the win......

the same thing happened to ford's card it went from 10 - 9 for juarez to 10 -10.....

so apparently both either changed their minds in the 12th or both were added wrong.....and the cards physically changed....

i know they turn in their cards round by round...but,if i`m scoring a close fight,i know in my mind how i`m scoring and who`s winning....on my card...i only have one card to keep track of...

that is,unless you`re a num num...so,as soon as the cards are announced,you scream that the card is wrong....

right?....hbo stayed on for quite awhile and nothing was said....

this stinks to high heaven....

this kind of stuff should be made public....

this is part of the reason that boxing is fading....and mma is on the come....among other reasons...

looks to me....llike dlh already has mucho juice as a young promoter.....

take a look for yourself...the cards are pristine until the 12th....then it looks like whomever tabulated the cards encountered some severe tremors......twice....in the 12th.....scratching a couple barrera 9`s into 10`s....


http://www.fightnews.com/barrera_juarez_scorecard.gif

fishy?.....this smells more like tuna than bill clinton`s desk at the white house...

i think any objective person would be scratching their head....boxing`s more crooked than the little finger on john elway`s passing hand...

enough of my bitch ass ranty-rant...i have to go shave my legs....

 

[almly]

My boys Spinch and Joey, I was looking for you guys over at the other place. Alright, I guess this is my new home, I roll with the Spinchster or Gardenweasel or whatever you wanna be called.

 

[Flipper13]

This is why I believe boxing needs to post the score of the fight while in progress...It is the only sport that I can think of in which during the event no one really knows for a fact who is winning or losing.

 

[BOXLOCKS]

this stinks to high heaven....

this kind of stuff should be made public....

this is part of the reason that boxing is fading....and mma is on the come....among other reasons...

looks to me....llike dlh already has mucho juice as a young promoter.....

take a look for yourself...the cards are pristine until the 12th....then it looks like whomever tabulated the cards encountered some severe tremors......twice....in the 12th.....scratching a couple barrera 9`s into 10`s....


http://www.fightnews.com/barrera_juarez_scorecard.gif

fishy?.....this smells more like tuna than bill clinton`s desk at the white house...

i think any objective person would be scratching their head....boxing`s more crooked than the little finger on john elway`s passing hand...

I agree, the scorecard situation definitly seems shady, but I have a couple questions for ya that might smooth this out a little.

If this is true, and the scorecards were manipulated to give Barrera the win...


1) Why were 2 scorecards changed?

One of the scorecards in question had Juarez winning 115-113 before the change and Juarez winning 115-114 after. If they were trying to pull something, they would change as little as possible to get the results in fear of raising suspision, so why change the other card?


2) What purpose was served in giving Barrera the win?

Barrera would keep his belt even if they scored it a draw, so why go out of the way and risk getting caught for something that doesn't really matter.


gw...I'm not attacking you, just the conspiracy thoery. Anytime I hear about boxing being rigged or corrupt I take the other side for the good of the sport. I know boxing has many problems, but one of the biggest ones is the dying interest in the sport. Part of the reason people don't like boxing is they think its all rigged or staged and that everyone involved is corrupt. So whenever I see a negative remark or an attack this sport I feel obligated to defend it, right or wrong.

I realize that in order to get things changed, we have to make the problems well known to those who can help do something to fix it. But at the same time, if we who love the sport go around complaining about the bad decisions and current problems, by the time the sport is fixed there won't be anyone interested in watching.


The contraversial decisions have been discussed at length in this forum, and several times I've said that just b/c we have contraversial decisions doesn't mean there's a problem with boxing. Yes there's the occasional robbing where you know the promoter had an influence on the scoring, and I agree that sh*t has to stop. But most of the "bad" decisions happen for perfectly natural reasons, right or wrong. If one guy is fighting in his home town, state, or country...he will obviously have the crowd support and will get the benefit of the dought on the close rounds. Thats no different than Shaq getting all the calls at home, and getting all the fouls on the road.


Like I said, I know there are absolute robberies in boxing, and untill a national commision is paying and monitoring the refs and judges it will continue to happen. But its not always as bad as it seems. Look at DLH-Mosley II, the fight was in LV and DLH landed like 120 more punches than Shane, so when the scores read Mosley everyone jumped on the conspiracy boat and blamed boxing for being scammed. The next day I heard that 75% of the poeple at ringside had Mosley winning b/c his punches were doing more damage than DLH's pitter patter. Having sat ringside a few weeks ago and then watching a tape of the same fight later on, I can tell you the fight looks and feels completely different. So I can see why the opinions could vary.


When you compare boxing to other sports its not that different. After the Steelers beat the Colts at Indy, there was talk all week about the refs being paid off after making several horrible calls in favor of the home team. After the Steelers beat Seattle in the SB, there was talk all week about the refs being paid off after making several horrible calls in favor of the Steelers. Whether or not its true, I have no idea, but I can tell you those games looked just as shady as any boxing decision I've seen.

For the record, I read a fight report for Marquez-John in Ring magazine today, they acted like it was a very close fight that could've gone either way. I've also read that the Navarro robbery in Japan was far from a robbery as Kawashima landed the much harder blows and was uneffected by Navarro's punches. Judges often see fights differently when one fighter is landinf more shots but the other is landing harder ones, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the hometown guy took the close rounds. As long as we have judges deciding the outcome of fights, there will be contraversial decisions, sometimes it has nothing to do with corruption.


In summary, I know boxing has serious problems but it sure doesn't help the interest in the sport when all you ever hear is how corrupt the sport is. Whenever we come across an obvious problem in boxing, we should all send a letter to our local elected official, instead of posting how corrupt the sport is for everyone to see and causing further damage.

OK I'm done

gl bl

 

[gardenweasel]

no..i don`t believe you are attacking me....and if you were,i`d have to drop a bizzle on yo` ass..... ...i kid...

seriously...after further reflection,it occurred to me that this would look even sneakier if only the card that changed the decision were changed....

so,change another...that had no bearing on the decision...make it look like total incompetence....

i just don`t buy that a judge who`s sole purpose for sitting in that chair..was to score that fight......didn`t know at fight`s end,who his scorecard favored...i don`t care if he turns the cards in round by round...

and when those cards are read,he should be up shouting at the top of his lungs.....because..as you said...boxing doesn`t need more scandal....

hbo stayed on for quite awhile.....they did interviews....the whole deal....not a peep was said.......imo,better to do "whatever"off the air....IF,that`s what happened....

and if the judge isn`t bright enough to remember who he had winning,he shouldn`t be there...

maybe we need to get some younger judges.....not these cheselogs that are older than the beetles(i`m talking about the lifeform,not the group)...

we don`t want judges that are so schtoopid,that they increase their i.q.`s by having a lobotomy...

we can agree to disagree...

 

[BOXLOCKS]

seriously...after further reflection,it occurred to me that this would look even sneakier if only the card that changed the decision were changed....

so,change another...that had no bearing on the decision...make it look like total incompetence....

Very possible

That answers my first question, but why go to all this trouble, raising suspisions and taking a chance of getting caught when Barrera was keeping his belt anyway?

 

[MayorgaFan]

If anyone cares I actually saw the John-Marquez fight a couple of weeks ago and had JMM winning 10 rounds to 2 lol I had navarro beating Kawashima 9-3. I obviously wasn't at either fight but on DVD, both decisions stunk. Oh and for what it's worth I am incredibly biased against JMM LOL I can't stand him. Not making any arguments or anything just my opinion on those 2 fights.