After that first knockdown, in the 8th I think it was, you could clearly read Lundy's lips saying 'he tripped me!'. That was one of the clearest examples of a fighter getting 'decked' that I have ever seen. To take a very fitting quote from Romi - 'ass clown'!!!
Boxing 7/16 - 7/17
- Thread starter Ghost Kid
- Start date
After that first knockdown, in the 8th I think it was, you could clearly read Lundy's lips saying 'he tripped me!'. That was one of the clearest examples of a fighter getting 'decked' that I have ever seen. To take a very fitting quote from Romi - 'ass clown'!!!
Why on earth is there a conferance call @3 am edt (1 hr from now) to announce whether or not Floyd/Manny takes place??? I've never heard of anything like it. I'd like to see the fight happen but this stupid drama is for the birds.
Graham's a purist here, and I appreciate that. I think he just wants to believe going in that a fight is fair, and as boxing fans I think we all want to believe that. Correct me if I'm wrong Graham. This idea doesn't always hold true, but I think there have been innumerable examples, some every single week in fact, which indicate that a 'home' or 'promoted' fighter often enjoys an 'advantage', whether it be by judging or officiating. The fact of the matter is that the promotional company employs the judges or officials, and if they want to get continued work, or asked back, it is in their interest to side with the home guy - if possible. I'll stop short of calling fights fixed, but I certainly think it is a factor...and from a wagering perspective often a big factor to take into consideration. From Germany, England, or in the hometown of a fighter anywhere in the world, that fighter very often enjoys an unsaid advantage going in. As Graham points out, there are certainly examples to the contrary, but the opposite, I think is more commonly and consistently true. Odds offered on fights even reflect this idea. An 'even-money' fight will be skewed toward the home or promoted fighter.
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I'm not saying he shouldn't get paid, but what was disgusting was Arnaoutis' performance. Assuming he get's paid, 15 grand not a bad payday for what he did, or more accurately, what he didn't do in there.
Well... I guess my Friday wagers did what they were supposed to...
Dallas came thru and that's good. :00hour
Dog's did not hit, and as odds suggested, they weren't supposed to.
Santa Cruz - once a glass jaw always a glass jaw.
I.Smith - fought competitively but once again, did just enough to lose. I think Weepaul is right, he is excruciating to bet on. If he could just apply himself just a little bit more...but maybe he's not capable? Sounds like it was a good fight.
On to Saturday! I'm really excited about the Lebedev-Alexeev throwdown!!
Great posts tonight guys, and although I was unavailable for the fights tonight, it's great fun to go back and read thru. Always come to you guys to get the real scoop!!
:toast:
Dallas came thru and that's good. :00hour
Dog's did not hit, and as odds suggested, they weren't supposed to.
Santa Cruz - once a glass jaw always a glass jaw.
I.Smith - fought competitively but once again, did just enough to lose. I think Weepaul is right, he is excruciating to bet on. If he could just apply himself just a little bit more...but maybe he's not capable? Sounds like it was a good fight.
On to Saturday! I'm really excited about the Lebedev-Alexeev throwdown!!
Great posts tonight guys, and although I was unavailable for the fights tonight, it's great fun to go back and read thru. Always come to you guys to get the real scoop!!
:toast:
Surprise surprise...another guy full of whiny excuses...Ishe lost the fight FAIR AND SQUARE. The ref warned Ishe countless times for low blows and only deducted 1 point. Ishe kept hitting low even after the pt deduct...Here is Greg Leon's take on the fight...Cry me a river Greg and Ishe :violin: :violin: :violin:
GUERRERO TAKES CONTROVERSIAL DECISION OVER SMITH
By G. Leon
Although Ishe Smith and Fernando Guerrero gave the fans in attendance their monies worth over ten competivie rounds, it appeared that Christmas came a bit early for the undefeated Guerrero. Smith got off to a fast start, possibly winning each of the first three rounds on every scorecard outside of Mississippi. Guerrero took control during rounds 4-6, but Smith appeared to dominate the 7th, score a knockdown in eighth and do enough to win rounds 9 and 10. Despite fighting his heart out in his third consecutive television friendly performance, Smith lost a UD by scores of 96-93, 95-93, 97-91. Referee Randy Phillips need not referee another significant fight again. Disclosure: Ishe Smith is a former client of mine.
GUERRERO TAKES CONTROVERSIAL DECISION OVER SMITH
By G. Leon
Although Ishe Smith and Fernando Guerrero gave the fans in attendance their monies worth over ten competivie rounds, it appeared that Christmas came a bit early for the undefeated Guerrero. Smith got off to a fast start, possibly winning each of the first three rounds on every scorecard outside of Mississippi. Guerrero took control during rounds 4-6, but Smith appeared to dominate the 7th, score a knockdown in eighth and do enough to win rounds 9 and 10. Despite fighting his heart out in his third consecutive television friendly performance, Smith lost a UD by scores of 96-93, 95-93, 97-91. Referee Randy Phillips need not referee another significant fight again. Disclosure: Ishe Smith is a former client of mine.
Judging
Judging
Here is how I see it (and I have been a professional judge for Canadian title fights as some of you will know):
A professional judge likes to get it right, that is, be on the winning side of a decision. No judge likes to be considered a "bad judge".
A judge is appointed by the sanctioning body for a title fight, not hired by the promoter.
International boxing is a close-knit community. Yes, a promoter might take a judge out to dinner. But the judge also will likely be at least on nodding acquaintance with the other fighter's manager and promoter.
If a judge gets a reputation for turning in bad decisions, consistently, it can jeopardise his or her chances of getting the gigs. For a judge, travelling around the world and being involved in the thrill of a big fight night, cost free, is far more important than being treated to a slap-up meal by the promoter.
It isn't in a promoter's interests to flat-out bribe a judge. Too risky. You do it and you give someone a "hold" over you. What if the judge offers a "tell all" story to a tabloid newspaper, or has too much to drink and lets word slip out? Major headaches for the promoter. A bribe can be done subtly you say? Suggestions of bodily harm to a judge? Welcome to the 1950s black and white movies, "The Setup", "The World in My Corner" etc.
I think, in a close fight, with the crowd roaring for the home town guy, a judge can find him or herself "shading" some of the either-way rounds for the local guy, that is: "That was a very tough round to score, toss of the coin, I will give it to the home guy." This is not the same thing as turning in a "crooked" card.
Germany: Many visiting fighters have won decisions in title bouts in Germany, a very long list.
I know that many members of the MadJack board believe that judges are corrupt.
I prefer to think that judges simply have bad nights.
I do lots of research for retro articles for Boxing Monthly and ESPN.com. You would be amazed at how many controversial decisions there have been, over the years. People can see the same fight and see it differently, hence so many split decisions. An experienced fight guy can see a fight "wrong"' it happens. If two of three judges get it wrong, we have a disputed decision.
A judge does NOT like having his/her scorecard pilloried by fans and commentators.
Just my opinion.
Judging
Here is how I see it (and I have been a professional judge for Canadian title fights as some of you will know):
A professional judge likes to get it right, that is, be on the winning side of a decision. No judge likes to be considered a "bad judge".
A judge is appointed by the sanctioning body for a title fight, not hired by the promoter.
International boxing is a close-knit community. Yes, a promoter might take a judge out to dinner. But the judge also will likely be at least on nodding acquaintance with the other fighter's manager and promoter.
If a judge gets a reputation for turning in bad decisions, consistently, it can jeopardise his or her chances of getting the gigs. For a judge, travelling around the world and being involved in the thrill of a big fight night, cost free, is far more important than being treated to a slap-up meal by the promoter.
It isn't in a promoter's interests to flat-out bribe a judge. Too risky. You do it and you give someone a "hold" over you. What if the judge offers a "tell all" story to a tabloid newspaper, or has too much to drink and lets word slip out? Major headaches for the promoter. A bribe can be done subtly you say? Suggestions of bodily harm to a judge? Welcome to the 1950s black and white movies, "The Setup", "The World in My Corner" etc.
I think, in a close fight, with the crowd roaring for the home town guy, a judge can find him or herself "shading" some of the either-way rounds for the local guy, that is: "That was a very tough round to score, toss of the coin, I will give it to the home guy." This is not the same thing as turning in a "crooked" card.
Germany: Many visiting fighters have won decisions in title bouts in Germany, a very long list.
I know that many members of the MadJack board believe that judges are corrupt.
I prefer to think that judges simply have bad nights.
I do lots of research for retro articles for Boxing Monthly and ESPN.com. You would be amazed at how many controversial decisions there have been, over the years. People can see the same fight and see it differently, hence so many split decisions. An experienced fight guy can see a fight "wrong"' it happens. If two of three judges get it wrong, we have a disputed decision.
A judge does NOT like having his/her scorecard pilloried by fans and commentators.
Just my opinion.
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- Apr 8, 2008
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I thought the ref in the Ishe fight was overly officious. And why did he ref every fight on card. He must have done 50 rounds last night. And he does stand so close to the action. He will take a shot at some point. As for the low blows, I thought the ref initially warned Smith on legal blows but once Smith heard that, that's when he started throwing low. Close fight could have gone either way. No surprise with the scores.
i`ve always felt that where theres money involved,theres the potential for shenanigans
....everybody laughed about the nba allegations until tim donaghy blew the whistle...
i have to slightly lean toward quannah`s p.o.v.(and even though graham made some solid points,also,i think attributing hometown decisions to "off nights"is a tad naive,imo...yes,i know graham knows much more about the ins and outs behind the scenes....i believe graham...i like and respect graham...he`s absolutely a stand-up guy...,but it behooves those involved...those with a fiscal interest in an endeavor...to believe and support the integrity of that endeavor)......we`ve all seen it happen too many times to dismiss it out of hand...that would beg credulity....
and i doubt seriously,without iron-clad proof,that some judge or ref would be able to threaten a player like kohl....guys like kohl have a major positive affect on the econonomy of their state/country/locale.....these guys have major influence in their communities.....at many levels.......
there doesn`t have to be any agreement...if a judge doesn`t shade the house fighter`s way,maybe that judge just doesn`t get rehired...doesn`t have to be explicit...it can be implicit.......can a judge be paid a "bonus" for doing an excellent job?...or have that "bonus" withheld if it`s decided he did poorly?....
anybody believe that everyone involved in these all powerful athletic commissions are completely above feathering their own nests?... in mma,we see boxing judges forced upon even the biggest promtions if they expect to fight in a certain locale....and we see how horrible that`s turned out on almost a weekly basis....
and truthfully,taking graham`s position,some of the favoritism can be attributed to nothing more than a home crowd`s influence...
but i don`t for a second think that theres no shenaigans going on...ever...
the only question is "how pervasive is it"?...
we`ll probably never know...
/signed:
w.a.b....(whiny assed bitch):grins:
....everybody laughed about the nba allegations until tim donaghy blew the whistle...
i have to slightly lean toward quannah`s p.o.v.(and even though graham made some solid points,also,i think attributing hometown decisions to "off nights"is a tad naive,imo...yes,i know graham knows much more about the ins and outs behind the scenes....i believe graham...i like and respect graham...he`s absolutely a stand-up guy...,but it behooves those involved...those with a fiscal interest in an endeavor...to believe and support the integrity of that endeavor)......we`ve all seen it happen too many times to dismiss it out of hand...that would beg credulity....
and i doubt seriously,without iron-clad proof,that some judge or ref would be able to threaten a player like kohl....guys like kohl have a major positive affect on the econonomy of their state/country/locale.....these guys have major influence in their communities.....at many levels.......
there doesn`t have to be any agreement...if a judge doesn`t shade the house fighter`s way,maybe that judge just doesn`t get rehired...doesn`t have to be explicit...it can be implicit.......can a judge be paid a "bonus" for doing an excellent job?...or have that "bonus" withheld if it`s decided he did poorly?....
anybody believe that everyone involved in these all powerful athletic commissions are completely above feathering their own nests?... in mma,we see boxing judges forced upon even the biggest promtions if they expect to fight in a certain locale....and we see how horrible that`s turned out on almost a weekly basis....
and truthfully,taking graham`s position,some of the favoritism can be attributed to nothing more than a home crowd`s influence...
but i don`t for a second think that theres no shenaigans going on...ever...
the only question is "how pervasive is it"?...
we`ll probably never know...
/signed:
w.a.b....(whiny assed bitch):grins:
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Anybody like the under 11? (-180) in the Bradley-Abregu fight?
I'm thinking about going big on that.
I'm thinking about going big on that.
Breadley should win inside as Abregus chin is really weak... so B. inside at +100 ...?
Maybe fight not to go the distance -160 is a safer bet as Abregu will be maybe able to get a good punch throught and then you never know what happens.
Just my 2 cents...
Btw. Lebedev D. v Alekseev A. fight ends MD / SD at +1000 is worth a play from my point of few.
Cheers
LotL
That's looks like a good play to me, Lord. What books is that line from if you don't mind me asking?
Can't see anything like this with my books.
I see this fight along the same lines - I think that as long as Alexeev does not gas out and stays on his feet till the end, he has a very good chance of getting the decision, and it is likely to be a close one. Possibly a controversial one, too, but that's another story..
I like the under, but the current price on it seems to be to steep to me.. At first I actually liked Bradley by DC. But from watching Abregu with his chin in the air, he seems to be a sucker for the right hand, and Bradley throughs that one well (the overhand right). I remember the one that put Witter down. Quite likely he'll catch Abregu with that one too...
So I do like the under now, but just not at that price.
That's looks like a good play to me, Lord. What books is that line from if you don't mind me asking?
Can't see anything like this with my books.
I see this fight along the same lines - I think that as long as Alexeev does not gas out and stays on his feet till the end, he has a very good chance of getting the decision, and it is likely to be a close one. Possibly a controversial one, too, but that's another story..
Hi Donny, Gamebookers offered that line this morning... but as the line offered some value it changed already to +500.
Cheers
LotL
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Thanks, Lord. I see.. Looks like the value is gone now..
Happy for those who got it at +1000, that was a good line. I guess I'll just stick with my small bet on Alexeev by DC..Abregu's chin is bad, and his stamina is bad as well....on the downside: Bradley is not a huge puncher (though his record might be a bit deceiving) and he's moving up a division.
I guess he has a fair chance to get Abregu out of there!
I dont know whats wrong with Angulo, he looked so good not so long ago, he didnt looks too good in his last few fight, but he should wear Alcine down!
Lebedeev Alexeev could be really interesting.
Hoping for a MD / SD!
Nothing major this week for me!
I guess he has a fair chance to get Abregu out of there!
I dont know whats wrong with Angulo, he looked so good not so long ago, he didnt looks too good in his last few fight, but he should wear Alcine down!
Lebedeev Alexeev could be really interesting.
Hoping for a MD / SD!
Nothing major this week for me!
I thought he's looked impressive in his last 3. Yorgie, Roasada were dispatched easily and Julio was as prepared as he's ever been for a fight and Angulo methodically took him apart. He'll never make a p4p list but the guy put's his punches together well and knows how to break down a fighter. The right guy can beat Angulo but anybody that stays in front of him will have hell to pay. I'd keep him far away from Sergio but I'd give him a decent chance v Paul Williams...that would be a hell of a fight. Good luck today!
