Boxing 7/30 - 8/1

[weepaul]

The fact that he quit on his way back to the corner is what pisses me off. At least give your corner a chance to work on it.

Cotto's cut was twice as bad and what does he do when he go's back to the corner, he smiles and winks.

Somebody should rip the Gatti T-shirt right off Nates back.

 

[Fightwriter]

The fact that he quit on his way back to the corner is what pisses me off. At least give your corner a chance to work on it.

Cotto's cut was twice as bad and what does he do when he go's back to the corner, he smiles and winks.

Somebody should rip the Gatti T-shirt right off Nates back.

I was thinking on those lines, Paul. ... Nate wears apparel paying tribute to Arturo Gatti and then pulls a move that Gatti would never have contemplated for one second. I had the feeling, watching that shambles on Saturday night, that the referee and the commissioners knew EXACTLY what was going on with Nate and weren't going to let him get away with it. I noticed that when Nate was remonstrating with the young commissioner afterwards, the young guy basically turned away with a "Yeah, OK, too bad" attitude. Now, had the fight been in FLORIDA, I think we would be looking at a different outcome ....

 

[gardenweasel]

i don`t know if the brit rukes would work in the good ole' usa.....or mexico...

the brits are gentlemen.....in this country and mexico,you`d have guys playing unicorn to get a "w"....

it`s a license to foul...

 

[Kramden]

Nate was clearly butted but a fighter of his stature gets through those those type of foreseeable setbacks and gets back in the fray. Campbell wanted out and he latched on to a scenario that could have worked for him but the loss was the "right" result.

 

[Kramden]

As for Witter, he was obviously diminished more than I thought he had. He's even lost something since the Bradley loss. Any great potential paydays are now completely out the window now for Junior.


Hatton must have had a good guffaw for himself on that one.:fit01: :fit01: :fit01:

 

[Fightwriter]

i don`t know if the brit rukes would work in the good ole' usa.....or mexico...

the brits are gentlemen.....in this country and mexico,you`d have guys playing unicorn to get a "w"....

it`s a license to foul...

I wish that were true about British fighters being gentlemen. We've produced some rough customers. The Welsh heavyweight Dick Richardson, for instance, was TWICE disqualified for blatantly butting visiting Americans (Mike De John and Cleveland Williams). John Conteh and Bunny Sterling (both trained by the late George Francis) were involved in a number of fights in which the other guy was cut in head clashes. Conteh told me they were trained to get their head in the "right position". (Evander Holyfield would know what John was talking about.)

The problem now is that the "accidental butt" rule, introduced in an attempt to bring fairness, is being exploited all too often by fighters and/or trainers seeking to bail out from a fight.

 

[crow]

The ref looked to have a gun to his head to rule it a punch instead of a headbutt.

If you can't see out of one eye the shots coming in, and you're fighting a young , fast agressive guy like Bradley, and you're 37, you better know what you're doing in there.

Bradley bears just as much responsability in saturday's fiasco as Campbell, he's been warned numerous time for dangerous use of the head.

We wouldn't have this discussion if the ref wasn't partial.

 

[gardenweasel]

I wish that were true about British fighters being gentlemen. We've produced some rough customers. The Welsh heavyweight Dick Richardson, for instance, was TWICE disqualified for blatantly butting visiting Americans (Mike De John and Cleveland Williams). John Conteh and Bunny Sterling (both trained by the late George Francis) were involved in a number of fights in which the other guy was cut in head clashes. Conteh told me they were trained to get their head in the "right position". (Evander Holyfield would know what John was talking about.)

The problem now is that the "accidental butt" rule, introduced in an attempt to bring fairness, is being exploited all too often by fighters and/or trainers seeking to bail out from a fight.

it was trying to be complimentary....wasn`t meant disparagingly......:shrug:

glad you mentioned conteh....i honestly think(at least in my pitiful memory),that conteh`s lt. heavyweight class(matt frankln/yaqui lopez/jorge ahmada/victor galindez/eddie gregory/mike rossman/eddie and johnny davis/marvin johnson/james"rahway" scott/jesse burnett/mike quarry/tony mundine, just to name a few)was THEE MOST EXCITING weight class with the most intriguing match-ups possibly in boxing history.....


i feel utterly blessed to have been around during that time in boxing history.....so much talent...so many guys with so much heart....

it was mind boggling...

 

[Fightwriter]

I took it as complimentary

I took it as complimentary

it was trying to be complimentary....wasn`t meant disparagingly......:shrug:

glad you mentioned conteh....i honestly think(at least in my pitiful memory),that conteh`s lt. heavyweight class(matt frankln/yaqui lopez/jorge ahmada/victor galindez/eddie gregory/mike rossman/eddie and johnny davis/marvin johnson/james"rahway" scott/jesse burnett/mike quarry/tony mundine, just to name a few)was THEE MOST EXCITING weight class with the most intriguing match-ups possibly in boxing history.....


i feel utterly blessed to have been around during that time in boxing history.....so much talent...so many guys with so much heart....

it was mind boggling...

It's OK, I took it as a compliment and I am surprised that my response may have indicated otherwise.

The light-heavyweight era you mentioned was fabulous. I remember not long after I crossed the pond, I was watching Eddie Gregory (as he then was) against Galindez live from Italy on one of the Saturday afternoon sports shows and thinking that I was in heaven.

Mate Parlov was pretty good in that era. He wasn't exciting but he was a very capable southpaw, and of course he beat Conteh in a close 15-round fight in Belgrade that saw Parlov winning the early rounds and Conteh coming on strongly in the later rounds.

 

[gardenweasel]

It's OK, I took it as a compliment and I am surprised that my response may have indicated otherwise.

The light-heavyweight era you mentioned was fabulous. I remember not long after I crossed the pond, I was watching Eddie Gregory (as he then was) against Galindez live from Italy on one of the Saturday afternoon sports shows and thinking that I was in heaven.

Mate Parlov was pretty good in that era. He wasn't exciting but he was a very capable southpaw, and of course he beat Conteh in a close 15-round fight in Belgrade that saw Parlov winning the early rounds and Conteh coming on strongly in the later rounds.

i remember mate..and tough chris finnegan fighting bigger guys tooth and nail...

and 15 round fights...lord,you had to be a tough s.o.b. to go 15...i wonder how many results would be altered had the 15 round fight not gone the way of the do-do bird?....

but,then again,how many tragedies may have been averted for guys that were just too damned tough for their own good......

blessed,we were...

 

[punchmaster]

Bradley bears just as much responsability in saturday's fiasco as Campbell, he's been warned numerous time for dangerous use of the head.

Bradley's shaven, sharp chromedome will always be a nice 3rd weapon for him and he knows it. He will come out ahead in almost all clashes, being short for a light welter, combined with the sharp skull. Fighters can become quite adept at making a headbutt look accidental and inadverent and it's real hard for the ref to call them on it. This wiill be far from the last time you see a Bradley opponent butted. Gotta give him credit throught, clearly trains his tail off, and has improved quite a bit, with his speed and will, he's gonna be a real tough out for any light welter. I doubt you'll see Paq go near him.

 

[Fightwriter]

15-round fights that the winner would have lost in 12 rounders

15-round fights that the winner would have lost in 12 rounders

i remember mate..and tough chris finnegan fighting bigger guys tooth and nail...

and 15 round fights...lord,you had to be a tough s.o.b. to go 15...i wonder how many results would be altered had the 15 round fight not gone the way of the do-do bird?....

but,then again,how many tragedies may have been averted for guys that were just too damned tough for their own good......

blessed,we were...

Most tragedies in ring history seemed to have happened from the 12th round on down, the obvious exception being Mancini-Duk Koo Kim. (Although Primo Carnera vs Ernie Schaaf ended in the 13h round I think that boxing historians generally accept that Schaaf most likely had a lingering injury from the Max Baer battering.)

A number of fights would have seen a different winner had there always been a 12-round limit for title bouts. In the following fights, the eventual winner would have been the loser had it not been for the three extra rounds: Marciano-Walcott; Louis-Conn I; Leonard-Hearns I; Saldivar-Winsone II; Weaver-Tate; Chacon-Bazooka Limon; Arguello-Olivares; LaMotta-Dauthuille..... In each of these fights the eventual loser was in front after 12 rounds (Saldivar of course did not knock out Winstone in their second fight but he overwhelmed him in the later rounds, knocking down Howard in the 14th round, to pull out a narrow and debatable win on the scorecard of ref Wally Thom, who was the sole arbiter.) There may have other 15-round fights that would have a different winner had the distance been 12 rounds, but these fights are the ones that stand out in my mind.

 

[gardenweasel]

Most tragedies in ring history seemed to have happened from the 12th round on down, the obvious exception being Mancini-Duk Koo Kim. (Although Primo Carnera vs Ernie Schaaf ended in the 13h round I think that boxing historians generally accept that Schaaf most likely had a lingering injury from the Max Baer battering.)

A number of fights would have seen a different winner had there always been a 12-round limit for title bouts. In the following fights, the eventual winner would have been the loser had it not been for the three extra rounds: Marciano-Walcott; Louis-Conn I; Leonard-Hearns I; Saldivar-Winsone II; Weaver-Tate; Chacon-Bazooka Limon; Arguello-Olivares; LaMotta-Dauthuille..... In each of these fights the eventual loser was in front after 12 rounds (Saldivar of course did not knock out Winstone in their second fight but he overwhelmed him in the later rounds, knocking down Howard in the 14th round, to pull out a narrow and debatable win on the scorecard of ref Wally Thom, who was the sole arbiter.) There may have other 15-round fights that would have a different winner had the distance been 12 rounds, but these fights are the ones that stand out in my mind.

i was actually thinking of how many fights may have swung the other way had they been 15`ers rather than 12....bute/andrade immediately comes to mind...

 

[Romi]

it was trying to be complimentary....wasn`t meant disparagingly......:shrug:

glad you mentioned conteh....i honestly think(at least in my pitiful memory),that conteh`s lt. heavyweight class(matt frankln/yaqui lopez/jorge ahmada/victor galindez/eddie gregory/mike rossman/eddie and johnny davis/marvin johnson/james"rahway" scott/jesse burnett/mike quarry/tony mundine, just to name a few)was THEE MOST EXCITING weight class with the most intriguing match-ups possibly in boxing history.....


i feel utterly blessed to have been around during that time in boxing history.....so much talent...so many guys with so much heart....

it was mind boggling...

A GREAT era of light hvys!. It's about the time I started getting serious about boxing in the late 70's. Does anybody recall Matt Franklin (then known) v Marvin Johnson. That was a bloody WAR. Franklin then changed his name to Saad Muhammad and had numerous FOTY clashes. Every fight it seemed was tooth and nail with classics with Conteh, Yaqui Lopez. Saad was always on the brink yet somehow pulled a ko out of the hat. Eddie Gregory fought Johnson and easily took him apart in imprssive fashion. Victor Galindez was tough as nails and Johnson dispatched him. Gregory had excellent skills but was too lazy in the training aspect and it cost him. This was the dawn of the Michael Spinks era and I doubt we'll see it that good again.

 

[Kramden]

Most tragedies in ring history seemed to have happened from the 12th round on down, the obvious exception being Mancini-Duk Koo Kim. (Although Primo Carnera vs Ernie Schaaf ended in the 13h round I think that boxing historians generally accept that Schaaf most likely had a lingering injury from the Max Baer battering.)

A number of fights would have seen a different winner had there always been a 12-round limit for title bouts. In the following fights, the eventual winner would have been the loser had it not been for the three extra rounds: Marciano-Walcott; Louis-Conn I; Leonard-Hearns I; Saldivar-Winsone II; Weaver-Tate; Chacon-Bazooka Limon; Arguello-Olivares; LaMotta-Dauthuille..... In each of these fights the eventual loser was in front after 12 rounds (Saldivar of course did not knock out Winstone in their second fight but he overwhelmed him in the later rounds, knocking down Howard in the 14th round, to pull out a narrow and debatable win on the scorecard of ref Wally Thom, who was the sole arbiter.) There may have other 15-round fights that would have a different winner had the distance been 12 rounds, but these fights are the ones that stand out in my mind.

Here is a glaring recent one: Librado Andrade vs. Lucien Bute.

And I actually think Hagler v Leonard would have been different if it were a 15 rounder.

You know what is funny is that Hagler would have LOST to Duran if that WASN'T a 15 rounder.

 

[Kramden]

A GREAT era of light hvys!. It's about the time I started getting serious about boxing in the late 70's. Does anybody recall Matt Franklin (then known) v Marvin Johnson. That was a bloody WAR. Franklin then changed his name to Saad Muhammad and had numerous FOTY clashes. Every fight it seemed was tooth and nail with classics with Conteh, Yaqui Lopez. Saad was always on the brink yet somehow pulled a ko out of the hat. Eddie Gregory fought Johnson and easily took him apart in imprssive fashion. Victor Galindez was tough as nails and Johnson dispatched him. Gregory had excellent skills but was too lazy in the training aspect and it cost him. This was the dawn of the Michael Spinks era and I doubt we'll see it that good again.

Saad was an NBC Sportsworld (and Wideworld, too) fixture on many a Saturday in the late 70's and early 80's. I remember his trunks always had the Sassoon logo on them.

 

[Fightwriter]

Hopkins-Taylor

Hopkins-Taylor

Here is a glaring recent one: Librado Andrade vs. Lucien Bute.

And I actually think Hagler v Leonard would have been different if it were a 15 rounder.

You know what is funny is that Hagler would have LOST to Duran if that WASN'T a 15 rounder.

I agree with you on Hagler-Leonard ... I think Hopkins would likely have twice beaten Taylor had the fights been 15 rounds and not 12 ... Cunningham was coming on very strongly late in the fight against Adamek and I think he just might have swung things his way had that been a 15-rounder.

 

[olddirtyfighter]

A number of fights would have seen a different winner had there always been a 12-round limit for title bouts. In the following fights, the eventual winner would have been the loser had it not been for the three extra rounds: Marciano-Walcott; Louis-Conn I; Leonard-Hearns I; Saldivar-Winsone II; Weaver-Tate; Chacon-Bazooka Limon; Arguello-Olivares; LaMotta-Dauthuille..... In each of these fights the eventual loser was in front after 12 rounds (Saldivar of course did not knock out Winstone in their second fight but he overwhelmed him in the later rounds, knocking down Howard in the 14th round, to pull out a narrow and debatable win on the scorecard of ref Wally Thom, who was the sole arbiter.) There may have other 15-round fights that would have a different winner had the distance been 12 rounds, but these fights are the ones that stand out in my mind.

Have they been scheduled for 12 rounds, all of those fights would be played differently before the end of the 12th round. Fighters would know that they have much less time to catch an opponent and they would react accordingly. It's not pure mathematic, nobody knows what would happen in those fights.
But I agree totally, those last 3 rounds enriched boxing history and I am sad we have only 12 rounds now. I also agree that it was a poor attempt to bring more safety to the boxing and I believe commissions are aware of that but with TV stations being so influential now there is no way we will have 15 rounders back.

 

[crow]

I also agree that it was a poor attempt to bring more safety to the boxing and I believe commissions are aware of that but with TV stations being so influential now there is no way we will have 15 rounders back.

Actually there's a sound medical basis ; as the rounds go the fighter loses water through perspiration; the less water, the less fluid around the brain lobes to lessen the impact of the blows.

 

[Fightwriter]

Have they been scheduled for 12 rounds, all of those fights would be played differently before the end of the 12th round. Fighters would know that they have much less time to catch an opponent and they would react accordingly. It's not pure mathematic, nobody knows what would happen in those fights.
But I agree totally, those last 3 rounds enriched boxing history and I am sad we have only 12 rounds now. I also agree that it was a poor attempt to bring more safety to the boxing and I believe commissions are aware of that but with TV stations being so influential now there is no way we will have 15 rounders back.

Hmmm ... Not sure I agree entirely, Old Dirty. Seems to me that Rocky was doing his damnedest to catch Walcott, ditto Louis against Conn, etc. But obviously you are right, we will never know for sure what would have happened had those fights been scheduled for 12 rounds.