I'm sure the Chinese will be impressed with the fact that President Bush is a born-again Christian.
China is going DOWN!!!
- Thread starter ironlock
- Start date
China began developing nuclear weapons in the late 1950s with substantial Soviet assistance. Before 1960 direct Soviet military assistance had included the provision of advisors and a vast variety of equipment. Of the assistance provided, most significant to China's future strategic nuclear capability were an experimental nuclear reactor, facilities for processing uranium, a cyclotron, and some equipment for a gaseous diffusions plant. China made remarkable progress in the 1960s in developing nuclear weapons. In a thirty-two-month period, China successfully exploded its first atomic bomb (October 16, 1964), launched its first nuclear missile (October 25, 1966), and detonated its first hydrogen bomb (June 14, 1967.
There is considerable uncertainly in published estimates of the size of the Chinese nunclear weapons stockpile. In the late 1980s it was generally held that China was the world's third-largest nuclear power, possessing a small but credible nuclear deterrent force of 225 to 300 nuclear weapons. Other estimates of the country's production capacities suggested that by the end of 1970 China had fabricated around 200 nuclear weapons, a number which could have increased to 875 by 1980. With an average annual production of 75 nuclear weapons during the 1980s, some estimates suggest that by the mid-1990s the Chinese nuclear industry had produced around 2,000 nuclear weapons for ballistic missiles, bombers, artillery projectiles and landmines.
. Chinese leaders repeatedly have pledged never to be the first to use nuclear weapons, and they have accompanied the nofirst -use pledge with a promise of certain nuclear counterattack if nuclear weapons are used against China. China envisioned retaliation against strategic and tactical attacks and would probably strike countervalue rather than counterforce targets. The combination of China's few nuclear weapons and technological factors such as range, accuracy, and response time might further limit the effectiveness of nuclear strikes against counterforce targets. China is seeking to increase the credibility of its nuclear retaliatory capability by dispersing and concealing its nuclear forces in difficult terrain, improving their mobility, and hardening its missile silos.
There is considerable uncertainly in published estimates of the size of the Chinese nunclear weapons stockpile. In the late 1980s it was generally held that China was the world's third-largest nuclear power, possessing a small but credible nuclear deterrent force of 225 to 300 nuclear weapons. Other estimates of the country's production capacities suggested that by the end of 1970 China had fabricated around 200 nuclear weapons, a number which could have increased to 875 by 1980. With an average annual production of 75 nuclear weapons during the 1980s, some estimates suggest that by the mid-1990s the Chinese nuclear industry had produced around 2,000 nuclear weapons for ballistic missiles, bombers, artillery projectiles and landmines.
. Chinese leaders repeatedly have pledged never to be the first to use nuclear weapons, and they have accompanied the nofirst -use pledge with a promise of certain nuclear counterattack if nuclear weapons are used against China. China envisioned retaliation against strategic and tactical attacks and would probably strike countervalue rather than counterforce targets. The combination of China's few nuclear weapons and technological factors such as range, accuracy, and response time might further limit the effectiveness of nuclear strikes against counterforce targets. China is seeking to increase the credibility of its nuclear retaliatory capability by dispersing and concealing its nuclear forces in difficult terrain, improving their mobility, and hardening its missile silos.
China has used its 43 nuclear tests since 1964 to develop the world's fourth largest nuclear weapons arsenal (only the UK's is smaller). It includes approximately 450 nuclear weapons of at least five different types, made up of around 300 strategic weapons that could be fired from land, air and from submarines and around 150 tactical weapons made up of artillery shells and atomic demolition munitions. Together they have a cumulative yield of over 251 megatons or some 17,000 Hiroshima bombs.
China conducted two nuclear tests in 1995, one on 15 May and the other on 17 August. Although many observers expected a further two tests last autumn, China declined to carry out any further tests while the world-wide condemnation of France's nuclear testing program was at its height.
http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1991/may91/may91fieldhouse.html
China conducted two nuclear tests in 1995, one on 15 May and the other on 17 August. Although many observers expected a further two tests last autumn, China declined to carry out any further tests while the world-wide condemnation of France's nuclear testing program was at its height.
http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1991/may91/may91fieldhouse.html
Do you people really think this would develope into a war?
Over what? I find it hard to swallow.
Besides, you can't take the government at face value. They lie as much, if not more, than the countries they warn us about.
China, more than likely, has every right to be pissed at the US over this shit.
But, do you think they are wishing to start a war? I doubt it!
I hope it ends soon, and ends peacefully.
(I wouldn't be beating a path to the bomb shelter, though.)
[This message has been edited by yyz (edited 04-04-2001).]
Over what? I find it hard to swallow.
Besides, you can't take the government at face value. They lie as much, if not more, than the countries they warn us about.
China, more than likely, has every right to be pissed at the US over this shit.
But, do you think they are wishing to start a war? I doubt it!
I hope it ends soon, and ends peacefully.
(I wouldn't be beating a path to the bomb shelter, though.)
[This message has been edited by yyz (edited 04-04-2001).]
What we seeing and reading is there just for folks to get there shit in the air. The real work is going on behind the closed doors. We will never know the truth. WE will get six differant stories when this is all over. War not here not this time. When China tries to take back Taiwan,(and it is part of there country for over 200 years)assuming they will try. Now we have war. It starts between China and Taiwan. Time will tell if we stay out of it. For this go around everyone keep there powder dry. Even Bush is smart enough to let this cool down. But hey he has to come out and look like he's the man. We will see after a few more years how he did.
Ok, keep something in mind......Back in 1999 when the United States "accidentally" bombed the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia, the Chinese government did nothing except
encourage demonstrations. That provoked criticism that the Chinese leadership is weak. Given the previous Chinese public perception of their own government, the
current Chinese leaders have no choice but to take a hard-nosed stance against the Americans. The United States knows this and will not give China an ultimatum. China will not cave in on this matter and the US will
take some blame and responsibility for the incident. Any other action by the US government will just provoke the Chinese, and Bush knows this. He will do nothing
foolish. He is not in a position this time to stare down the Chinese the way Kennedy stared down Krushchev. China will win this time ..... there is no other choice.
encourage demonstrations. That provoked criticism that the Chinese leadership is weak. Given the previous Chinese public perception of their own government, the
current Chinese leaders have no choice but to take a hard-nosed stance against the Americans. The United States knows this and will not give China an ultimatum. China will not cave in on this matter and the US will
take some blame and responsibility for the incident. Any other action by the US government will just provoke the Chinese, and Bush knows this. He will do nothing
foolish. He is not in a position this time to stare down the Chinese the way Kennedy stared down Krushchev. China will win this time ..... there is no other choice.
i donot say much when it comes to things with the government but we could cruch them with out war if we were to stop all inports from their back stabbing country we would bring them to their knees,there is nothing that they ship us that we cannot do without but they vastley depend on the us $. it would cripple them and they are rude and back stabbers that would spit on you any chance they had and i'm sure that i see this being out here then anywhere else in the us shit its like little aisa out here. and some of you non us people chirping in remember most of your countries are first in line waiting for us hand outs.
China at this time could not take Taiwan let alone defeat us. Still, we are not going to commit to a full scale war over a airplane crew despite all the tough talk.
China is doing the same exact thing the US would if the roles had been reversed. If China had spy planes gathering information off the US coast with as much regularity as we do near their country, and by accident there was a collision, I highly doubt we would gather their troops and send them back East in a jiffy.
China has no naval presence, they are no threat at this point in time. Their leadership is in a bad position...as mentioned, when the US mistakenly hit China's embassy and killed three people, the Chinese government laid low and the populace was outraged. They won't back down this time and risk even more backlash. Bush should issue an apology, even if he doesn't mean it, and get the troops back home...continuing to stall and waiting for China to backoff isn't going to work.
No war is going to breakout over this. US has to stop with the hypocrisy...as I stated, if the roles were reversed, do you think the US would act any differently...especially since if that happened, my God...China would have had the audacity to fly near our coast and spy on us! We are the only country that should be allowed to do that!
[This message has been edited by Hoops (edited 04-04-2001).]
China has no naval presence, they are no threat at this point in time. Their leadership is in a bad position...as mentioned, when the US mistakenly hit China's embassy and killed three people, the Chinese government laid low and the populace was outraged. They won't back down this time and risk even more backlash. Bush should issue an apology, even if he doesn't mean it, and get the troops back home...continuing to stall and waiting for China to backoff isn't going to work.
No war is going to breakout over this. US has to stop with the hypocrisy...as I stated, if the roles were reversed, do you think the US would act any differently...especially since if that happened, my God...China would have had the audacity to fly near our coast and spy on us! We are the only country that should be allowed to do that!
[This message has been edited by Hoops (edited 04-04-2001).]
hypocrisy are you blind to whats going on in the world. how about the 2 us professors that china pulled out of their house 2 weeks ago and are holding them with out charging them with a crime. now this that is 2 things inless then a month.
and china first stated it was in their air space which today they changed the story and said it happenened in international air space,then say we are to blame and we owe them an apology.
or all the news stations over there saying death to the us and kill baby bush,read the paper watch bbc news that way you can't say it all made up by the us. they were burning us flags and bush dummies today at one of the universitys over there.
you don't see the us doing that,and you have the balls to say the us is acting with hypocrisy,man and you live here.
like i said countries like to take shots and bad mouth the us when they get a chance, but if something bad happens they all act like the us owes them help.
hell we have businessies over there such as ups and coke which are top employers for their country.they send students over to learn at our colleges on student visa's paid for by their country then go back home with what they have learned to use against us or bad mouth our country while they are here and can do what they want because our law does not hold them accountable because they are sponsered by their country,i've been at 5 university's and 4 juco's i've seen it and have heard it.
so this time our government is in the right.free air space is free air space is free air space, so the us was not in the wrong and there is nothing you can say to change that.it was showen on a vast of different radars that we were not in their air space.
[This message has been edited by fletcher (edited 04-04-2001).]
and china first stated it was in their air space which today they changed the story and said it happenened in international air space,then say we are to blame and we owe them an apology.
or all the news stations over there saying death to the us and kill baby bush,read the paper watch bbc news that way you can't say it all made up by the us. they were burning us flags and bush dummies today at one of the universitys over there.
you don't see the us doing that,and you have the balls to say the us is acting with hypocrisy,man and you live here.
like i said countries like to take shots and bad mouth the us when they get a chance, but if something bad happens they all act like the us owes them help.
hell we have businessies over there such as ups and coke which are top employers for their country.they send students over to learn at our colleges on student visa's paid for by their country then go back home with what they have learned to use against us or bad mouth our country while they are here and can do what they want because our law does not hold them accountable because they are sponsered by their country,i've been at 5 university's and 4 juco's i've seen it and have heard it.
so this time our government is in the right.free air space is free air space is free air space, so the us was not in the wrong and there is nothing you can say to change that.it was showen on a vast of different radars that we were not in their air space.
[This message has been edited by fletcher (edited 04-04-2001).]
Unlikely, Rama, and hoops I am certainly entitled to my opinion on this subject and you can bet that it is a intelligent one as well having relatives with political ties in D.C. and having an MBA myself. I sure do like the different opinions on this subject in this post. Most of them seem to take on different points of view and are very subjective. Especially like fletchers two posts, they provide good insight and reasoning. There are other good points made as well by others in this topic. However, all of yours (hoops, unlikely, and rama) make no sense at all
kneifl
[This message has been edited by kneifl (edited 04-05-2001).]
Forget it. Obviously the US can do no wrong, is not a lying, propaganda machine in itself, anyone who disagrees makes no sense, and hey, if worse comes to worse, it's ok to drop a nuclear bomb and kill thousands of innocent lives! Makes me proud to be an American...
Time to just stick to handicapping, this is pointless...
Time to just stick to handicapping, this is pointless...
This kinda chit gets people more fired up than The Gambling God does. Think I'll sit in the back seat on this JOYRIDE
Ironlock--
Hey, glad to see you haven't lost your touch, my friend. Stirring up the pot-- good work. I am not touching this one with a ten foot pole however...Sorry to disapoint you.....
Spring come to S. Dakota yet? Its trying down this way, but its slow going.
Don't be a stranger, Lock......
Hey, glad to see you haven't lost your touch, my friend. Stirring up the pot-- good work. I am not touching this one with a ten foot pole however...Sorry to disapoint you.....
Spring come to S. Dakota yet? Its trying down this way, but its slow going.
Don't be a stranger, Lock......
This is what we are dealing with......
http://www.peopledaily.net/english/200104/04/eng20010404_66813.html
If that is truth, then I am spiderman!!!!
Very tough to engage in serious negotiations with a communist regime. I know some have said that "both sides will lie, and fabricate", but when you look at this objectively, it seems clear, at least to my feeble mind, that our reporting is exponentially more truthful than that rubbish.....
How many of you really believe that a plane with a topspeed of 350 mph, has the "quicks", to outmanuever a couple jets... Apparently, a few BILLION have been duped into that faith. I find it comical.
Which style of aircraft has the ability to evade?
Which style of aircraft has the ability to initiate unavoidable contact through manuevering?
Secondly, when attempting to discuss the "sovereignty" of the plane on the ground, the article simply ASSUMES that the American aircraft "caused" the accident and death....
Lets be honest here. Who is being honest here. Again, I will say....."CHINA IS NO FRIEND of the USA"....in fact, internal documents from the REPUBLIC reveal its attitude that we are "already at war".....albeit a different style of war.
Iron.
Reds-Cold up here, thiking about loading the shotgun
.....
Tidbit: Some of you may know that I go to Alaska for a month every summer to commercial fish, well, I found out that Alaska leads the nation in suicide and spousal abuse per capita. Reason: The dark. The limited light for the long winter months and subsequent depression have a negative impact on the suicide/abuse rates.
I thought that was interesting. No wonder my wife doesnt want to move to NOME, AK......
Later boys.
iron.
http://www.peopledaily.net/english/200104/04/eng20010404_66813.html
If that is truth, then I am spiderman!!!!
Very tough to engage in serious negotiations with a communist regime. I know some have said that "both sides will lie, and fabricate", but when you look at this objectively, it seems clear, at least to my feeble mind, that our reporting is exponentially more truthful than that rubbish.....
How many of you really believe that a plane with a topspeed of 350 mph, has the "quicks", to outmanuever a couple jets... Apparently, a few BILLION have been duped into that faith. I find it comical.
Which style of aircraft has the ability to evade?
Which style of aircraft has the ability to initiate unavoidable contact through manuevering?
Secondly, when attempting to discuss the "sovereignty" of the plane on the ground, the article simply ASSUMES that the American aircraft "caused" the accident and death....
Lets be honest here. Who is being honest here. Again, I will say....."CHINA IS NO FRIEND of the USA"....in fact, internal documents from the REPUBLIC reveal its attitude that we are "already at war".....albeit a different style of war.
Iron.
Reds-Cold up here, thiking about loading the shotgun
Tidbit: Some of you may know that I go to Alaska for a month every summer to commercial fish, well, I found out that Alaska leads the nation in suicide and spousal abuse per capita. Reason: The dark. The limited light for the long winter months and subsequent depression have a negative impact on the suicide/abuse rates.
I thought that was interesting. No wonder my wife doesnt want to move to NOME, AK......
Later boys.
iron.
