early line on Mosley-Forrest.

[gardenweasel]

tough fight to cap

tough fight to cap

what happens if mosley loses again?....where does his career go?his boxing legacy?how important is this fight to him?
talk about pressure...this is so big for mosley,it`s hard to put enough emphasis on this fight for him....but,does forrest just have the perfect style and body type that mosley can`t deal with...and after the morales-barrera fight,we all know how important that "third fight" is to boxing`s money grubbers.....i honestly think that forrest`s excellent defense,long arms(as opposed to a short armed mosley)and power make for a very tough opponent for mosley....but,mentally,forrest may have a tougher time getting motivated(after winning the first fight easily,he may have a tougher time getting totally focused-this fight will be an anti-climax for him)......anything even remotely close will go to mosely,so if you bet forrest(who i think is actualy the better overall fighter-just not as flashy or marketable as mosely),you are putting yourself at a great disadvantage....forrest will have to win very convincingly to get a decision.....so,if i wager,i`ll be forced to take mosely based on the circumstances of this fight,not who is actually the better fighter....the 3 m`s-1)mosely media darling....2)motivation....3)money grubber third fight theory.....waiting for ruiz-johnson...ruiz is a joke...and i`m praying that larry holmes has enough left to punish that fat pussy butterbean...i really think that an old guy like holmes,with incredible experience,should be able to tire butterbean out over 10,even if he does very little offensively...shocked that butterbean is willing to go 10 agaimst barbara walters(much less holmes)...money talks....sorry for rambling.

 

[SMOKE JENSEN]

Agree with weasel on the Holmes fight. Larry Holmes dose not get the credit he deserves. He was a great heavyweight champion. I believe in his prime he would have beat Tyson with a gameplan like Douglas did. And please don't anybody tell me that he would not match up against anybody today very well. I think Holmes is the last great heavyweight champ we have seen latley. But i would be tempted to throw Holyfield in there too. I miss larry. He fought everybody in his time.

 

[gardenweasel]

bumping this up

bumping this up

waiting for odds to show on olympic...the more i think about this fight,the more i see a boring,tentative barrera-morales 2 type fight with a close,inconclusive decision....and then,mosely will get the nod whether he deserves it or not.....he`s the golden boy with the large hbo contract,and that big third fight will make everybody a big payday......i really think forrest will have to either k.o. or thouroughly dominate shane to get a decision.....with this type of scenario(if you buy my theory),you almost have to take shane(even though i think mosely has a horrible time dealing with the height,defense and power of forrest)....if he loses he is relegated to the second tier of top fighters who are no longer considered in the top 5 pound for pound (i.e. de la hoya,vargas,naseem hamed,diego corrales etc)....a career defining fight for mosely and the powers that be stand to lose mucho dinero if he loses....

 

[gardenweasel]

tarver-harding undercard

tarver-harding undercard

probably the 2 best lightheavyweight`s this side of roy jones and michelczeski(who knows what weight james toney is)....harding won the first and hurt tarver,but,tarver`s very hungry...tarver is the better puncher and harding is very crafty and tough..don`t see a k.o. or stoppage so i am laying the wood(-155) and taking over 10 full rounds....another good lightheavy fight sunday with derrick harmon fighting montell griffin...if there`s odds,i might take a shot with harmon(younger guy who`s improving and on a little roll)...

 

[badjab]

I'll be taking Mosely on this one. I agree with Gardenweasel that all things being equal (that is, a close fight) the decision will go to Sugar Shane. Couple that with his added motivation and the fact that he will be a smart fighter (stay out of harms way while getting in his flurries), I see Shane winning on points.

 

[Dutchmasta]

Tarver vs. Harding

Tarver vs. Harding

GW, I agree with ya on this fight. I like Harding because of his crafty and awkward style. He'll be too much for Tarver. I also agree with the over. He'll outbox Tarver and win with a decision.

 

[TheShrimp]

I don't think a barrera-morales II is in the works. Shane has always fought a hit and get hit style. He loves to mix it up.

Back at -110/-110 at Carib. I guess we'll call it even man to man.

This one's getting nasty, too. They've both been really disrespecting each other. Mosley said the butt was intentional. Forrest said Shane fought a poor technical fight. Hmmm.

I'm pretty excited for it.

GLTA.

 

[Dutchmasta]

Forrest vs. Mosley

Forrest vs. Mosley

I find this kind of odd. I noticed the odds for this fight at sportsinteraction.com are Forrest +180 Mosley +205 and DRAW +1900. I find this hard to believe because if one were to bet on both sides of this fight it would be a guaranteed winner. But at this site you cannot bet on both sides. But you could if you had two different accounts...makes me think hmmm....I could be wrong though.

 

[TheShrimp]

Re: Forrest vs. Mosley

Re: Forrest vs. Mosley

I find this kind of odd. I noticed the odds for this fight at sportsinteraction.com are Forrest +180 Mosley +205 and DRAW +1900. I find this hard to believe because if one were to bet on both sides of this fight it would be a guaranteed winner. But at this site you cannot bet on both sides. But you could if you had two different accounts...makes me think hmmm....I could be wrong though.

You're not reading the numbers right.

When they list forrest 1.80, that's your RETURN on a dollar.

So, if you bet 10, they return 18. 10 to win 8, or 4:5 odds or -125 moneyline.

Similarly, Mosley +205 means 10 returns 20.50. Or +105 moneyline. Its a funny way to do it (it may be how they do it in europe?)

 

[gardenweasel]

fellow fight fans

fellow fight fans

my fan side hopes the shrimp is right and the fight is hot and heavy...and there IS extremely bad blood there...but,there was extremely bad blood in the morales-barrerra fight,also........
i think both fighters will be very leary of making a big mistake...we know both have exceptional power....if i was mosely`s trainer,i might try and get forrest early...forrest is like a big praying mantis...long and angular,hard to get inside and score on....if it settles into a technical,counterpunching fight i think it favors forrest...my wagering side hopes this ends up as a close,tentative,technical fight....i think it might go the distance and be a close decision....if it`s a brawl,mosley will have to be the aggressor...whatever way it plays out,this fight is like the end of the world for mosely...if he loses, he will be forever thought of as second best....the pressure is on him....if he wants to leave the kind of legacy we all thought he would leave,it`s now or never....joe louis stepped up against schmeling,sugar ray leonard stepped up against duran,hearns and hagler.ali stepped up,roy jones stepped up after his disqualification...baby,it don`t get no bigger than this....i love forrest and his style vs mosely,but,as i outlined previously,all signs point to mosely having the advantages(including the potential judging in a close decision)...

 

[Dutchmasta]

Shrimp you're probably right.
I just noticed when I typed 100 for Forrest it said the payout was 180 and 100 for Mosley it said 205. The European way seems kind of confusing at first glance.

 

[SMOKE JENSEN]

I like forrest by ko. I agree with GW that mosley will be desperate.
I believe this will lead to him taking chances and leaving himself open. And i also didn't like the way he took bodyshots last time. Forrest hurt him there bad. I believe that forrest is mosleys kryptonite.

 

[gardenweasel]

smoke

smoke

your observation on the body shots really hurting mosley was right on the money(and his style is very tough on mosely)...i absolutely think your scenario is possible and probably makes more sense than my "situation"theory....mosely has looked great in his wins,but,other than de la hoya he has not beaten any really tip top opponents....and i think that de la hoya fought a very stupid fight vs mosely....dela hoya was coming off throwing away a decision vs trinidad by running for the last 5 rounds of that fight.....he took heavy criticism after that fight...he vowed to "fight"mosely and subsequently played right into mosely`s hands by chasing the rabbit and being outquicked....if he had boxed a little more and picked his spots,he would have done much better vs mosely...but,back to the body shots.mosely was caving badly from those shots toward the end of the fight and i expect more of the same this fight...i guess i`m banking that mosely and the powers that be will find a way to salvage his standing as one of the top pound for pound guys(along with that lucrative third fight)....i think forrest has to win big or stop mosely to win the fight...i also think mosely has the motivational edge and i wonder how hard it will be for forrest to be sharp after two straight wins over mosely...in my opinion,forrest is the better man,but,boxing has been strange lately.money talks...shane keeps it close enough for them to give him a decision(deserved or not)....a great thread with super sharp,boxing savvy observations...gret to hook up with so many knowledgable boxing people.gl...

 

[Junior44]

LOL............You guys are insane. Way too much over-analyzing. This fight is an absolute no-brainer. Forrest is a good fighter, not great. Mosley is a great fighter. The pedigrees of these 2 guys are not even close. Mosley has DESTROYED the following guys: De La Hoya, Wilfredo Rivera, Ceballos, Philip Holliday (when he was undefeated), Taylor (when he was undefeated), 2 tough cookies in Molina and jesse james leija, and Antonio Diaz among others. Forrest's most impressive victory is probably a UD over a 38-year-old Vince Phillips. Nobody else on his resume is anything more than a good club fighter.

Now, I have personally watched 35 of Shane's 39 fights and he is as close to a flawless fighter as you will find. What happened in the first fight is this: Mosley had never been cut, ever. When he got cut, it shook him up, took him out of his gameplan, and Forrest (and tons of props to him) took advantage of it. The fight for all intents and purposes was over after the 2nd round.

Smoke, not sure what you are talking about but Mosley is far from desperate.......lmao. And taking chances? Why? That's laughable. Mosley didn't take body shots well in the first fight because he had nothing left after gettin his clock cleaned early. Fact is, Mosley is probably the most devestaing body puncher in the history of the sport. At least for his weight class.

Anyways, fwiw, Shane has been training like a mofo for this fight and he has never lacked for confidence. He now feels that the headbutt was intentional. Now, im not sure if it was or not but it doesn't matter. In his mind, it was. Either way, I give Forrest all the credit in the world for beating him the first go around, but it won't happen again. This fight will not even be close. Mosley at Even money is probably the best odds i've seen on a fight in at least 10 years. Total steal..........

 

[1837]

Took Mosley earlier at -110 and at even money but now the line is still rising up and we can find him at fivedimes at +130!!!:shrug:

 

[TheShrimp]

Mosley was taking body shots in the first but, but that was after getting clobbered early on. I would have to say he's addressed that kind of thing in training. He knows where his holes are.

He locked himself up at big bear. Its obvious he wants this one. He looked tight at the weigh-in.

I guess Junior is kind of saying what I was looking at originally: Mosley came into the first one a 5-1 fave and now its even money???

So the question I'm asking myself is this: Is Forrest the 5-1 dog he was in the first fight or is he the even money fighter in this fight? I think he's somewhere in between. There's probably been a little overreaction to his win in the first one, so I like Shane at even money.

Getting psyched for this one. LETS GET IT ON.

Won't be back till Monday I suspect. Have fun watching the fight.

 

[SMOKE JENSEN]

Junior44,

IMO. Being a great fighter is more than a fighters offensive & defensive capabilities. Its what's in them when all of a sudden when things go wrong. And how they react. Great fighter don't fold when they get cut and see their blood for the first time. I agree that Mosley is very good. But that is not the last time he will get cut now that he's fighting upper tier fighters. He's good. But lets hold the Great label until we see how he preforms in the future when things get rough for him.

 

[gardenweasel]

junior

junior

all due respect(i have also taken mosley),but,i think desperation is an understatement....if he loses this fight,there will be no third fight....and take it from naseem hamed,de la hoya,chico corrales,fernando vargas et al...one or 2 big losses relegates you to a much lesser status in the boxing world..instead of being considered a potential all time great,he will be thought of as the other welterweight.....and those opponents you named (with the exception of de la hoya) are now 2nd tier fighters...molina and leija(and i love leija)are way past their prime...phillip holiday can`t break an egg.diaz is nowhere near the fighter his record would indicate(over protected and now that he`s stepping up you see that he`s a very limited fighter)....i know shane`s very talented but he`s got his hands full with a guy who`s style is very difficult for him....but,i think the situation will help him...if he doesn`t get stopped or really dominated i think we`ll see another morales-barrera decision....that third fight will be worth multi-millions.....i`m banking that motivation(i really think forrest has a subconscious hurdle here),and a little help from the powers that be,will be enough to push mosely over the hump in a close fight....i really think you`re off base in calling this a lock....but,i hope you`re right.

 

[smart_money]

Advantage Mosley:
His whole career is riding on this fight...if he loses,he is relegated to second tier status among today`s elite fighters...look at how de la hoya is perceived now...vargas....naseem hamed...diego corrales....

also,you have to understand that if the bout is
even remotely close,moslyy will get the decision....we all saw the morales-barrera fight and the prospect of the third big money fight is usually the determining factor in a close decision...throw in the fact that mosely is the "marquee name"with the big hbo contract.....with all that said,i
personally think that forrest has the height,defense and power(the total style)that will give mosley a fit every time....i might even go as far as saying forrest is the better, more complete fighter....mosely is flashier and gets all the press...but,i`m probably taking mosely in what will probably be a boring,cautious second fight(see morales-barrera 2)to win a close decision whwther he desrves it or not....third fight coming up.

 

[Junior44]

A couple things here:

GW - I probably should have been more clear when I said Mosley was far from desperate. I hate to break out the Webster's, but in this case, its easy to explain. Desperate: having lost hope; involving or employing extreme measures in an attempt to escape defeat or frustration. I don't think this is the case. However, I do agree with you that this fight is critical for his Legacy. If he loses, there certainly wont be a 3rd fight and it will take alot of time and work for Mosley to even attempt to be an upper tier fighter again. As fas as his opposition, I also agree. There arent any Hagler's or Leonard's on his resume, but there ARE some decent fighters at least. My point was not so much on who Shane HAS fought, but who Forrest HASNT. I just can't give him much credit for defeating Raul Frank (and barely btw). The records of his last 5 opponents, combined, is 26-44 and 4-25 L29.

Smoke, I understand what you are saying, but you have to remember, that fight was the first time in Mosley's career that he has had to face any adversity whatsoever, and he certainly didn't handle very well. But, for most fighters thats actually a good sign, kind of a wake-up call, like "Hey.........this duce can fight" He's not invincable anymore and he now knows that. I can tell you without a doubt that Mosley has alot of heart, people sometimes forget that Forrest never could get him outta there. I'm still not sure how he survived the 2nd round.