First rule of bitcoin

[kickserv]

If nothing will change someones mind, it may not be because they're in a cult, it may be because your reasoning sucks.

This is exactly what someone in a cult would say.


You want to be apart of a giant scam and ponzi scheme, go for it. Do your thing, make your money, lose your money, buy Ferraris and Yachts, live the fucking life. Just stop with the "crypto is coming for ya and you better be ready" bullshit. Ya know, that is the stuff cult members say.




And I could give you a billion reasons why crypto is total bullshit, but nothing will change ones mind when they have drunk the crypto Kool Aid.

 

[kickserv]

it's just irresponsible not to have 3-5% of your overall investment strategy in Bitcoin and/or Ethereum. There's only one way out of the global debt crises and you better be holding something that gives you a chance.

Could that be anymore cultish, fucking hell 🤦‍♂️

Yeah.....that global debt crisis is coming and the only way you have a chance is crypto. Yeah, you nailed it🤦‍♂️

 

[kickserv]

At first we had dudes on here telling us how awesome crypto is, ok fine.

Now we have some telling us "only way to survive" and "you'll be forced to use crypto and can't avoid it", fucking hell 🤦‍♂️

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

You seem angry. You don't have to internalize this, but I get it.

 

[kickserv]

You seem angry. You don't have to internalize this, but I get it.

I am just pissed the world is fucked, and crypto is the only way out.


Just keep on drinking the Kool Aid, of course I can't drink any because the only way you can purchase Kool Aid is with crypto, so yep I am fucked.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

The world's not fucked.

 

[kickserv]

The world's not fucked.

ok...I feel better now

 

[Wineguy]

If there is only one way out of the debt crisis and that is bitcoin, then the process Jack just described is converting to dollars so he can but something on a debit card using DOLLARS, otherwise, who will take your everyday purchase bitcoin? My bitcoin has been Nvidea which my investment guys got me into 4.5 years ago because they live in Santa Clara. Just like Jack, I can sell it a little at a time and make cash purchases (and I have) but what is the difference? Nothing in my mind. I'm just too old school to follow it and lazy anymore to read all the hype on it. I get enough of that here,

But, to each their own.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

My bitcoin has been Nvidea which my investment guys got me into 4.5 years ago because they live in Santa Clara. Just like Jack, I can sell it a little at a time and make cash purchases (and I have) but what is the difference? Nothing in my mind. I'm just too old school to follow it and lazy anymore to read all the hype on it.

NVIDIA stock is part ownership in an incoming producing business. They generate cash flow by producing and selling goods. You can actually determine a value of the business and the shares of it. The speculation comes in traders determining the future value of the company and those shares, but the actual business itself has intrinsic value. If you owned all of it tomorrow, you'd be one of the wealthiest people in history.

Bitcoin is a store of value that is only worth what someone else will pay for it. It's 100% speculation. If you owned all of it tomorrow, it's worthless.

 

[kickserv]

If you owned all of it tomorrow, it's worthless.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

NVIDIA stock is part ownership in an incoming producing business. They generate cash flow by producing and selling goods. You can actually determine a value of the business and the shares of it. The speculation comes in traders determining the future value of the company and those shares, but the actual business itself has intrinsic value. If you owned all of it tomorrow, you'd be one of the wealthiest people in history.

Bitcoin is a store of value that is only worth what someone else will pay for it. It's 100% speculation. If you owned all of it tomorrow, it's worthless.

He has a number on a screen that says that he can sell that share at a price. He doesn't own any rights to any cash flow because that's determined by a Board to which his vote doesn't matter. And the stock price isn't determined by future cash flows only the speculation of estimates of those future cash flows and the only way that he makes any money on his ownership is if he's able to get someone to buy his ownership at a higher price than he paid and that the value of the underlying currency that he paid for that ownership didn't devalue considerably since he bought it which it has. He gets a dividend, but presently that dividend isn't keeping up with the devaluation of the currency that he used to purchase the right to look at the number on the screen.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

He has a number on a screen that says that he can sell that share at a price. He doesn't own any rights to any cash flow because that's determined by a Board to which his vote doesn't matter. And the stock price isn't determined by future cash flows only the speculation of estimates of those future cash flows and the only way that he makes any money on his ownership is if he's able to get someone to buy his ownership at a higher price than he paid and that the value of the underlying currency that he paid for that ownership didn't devalue considerably since he bought it which it has. He gets a dividend, but presently that dividend isn't keeping up with the devaluation of the currency that he used to purchase the right to look at the number on the screen.

Do NVIDIA shares have an intrinsic value? Any dividend can be taken as cash or reinvested into more shares.

What's the intrinsic value of Bitcoin?

 

[yyz]

 

[MadJack]

I swear I was coming here to post a popcorn gif.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Do NVIDIA shares have an intrinsic value? Any dividend can be taken as cash or reinvested into more shares.

What's the intrinsic value of Bitcoin?

How do you define intrinsic value? And how does that definition relate to shares of NVIDIA?

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

How do you define intrinsic value? And how does that definition relate to shares of NVIDIA?

The value of an asset based on future expected cash flow. If you are capable of calculating the intrinsic value, you can compare that to the price the shares are trading at to determine whether it is undervalued/overvalued by the market.

Bitcoin is not an income producing asset. It's 100% based on speculation. Let me know where I'm wrong.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

I don't know what the intrinsic value is of any stock or if there is any. Based on the definition you provided of intrinsic value, it sounds like you base it on an estimate of future cash flow based on someone's model on someone's spreadsheet but that doesn't mean any holder can get that value now or at any time in the future and the stock doesn't have any of the value of the future cash flows of the company that it "owns" as the stockholder doesn't receive any cash flow until a Board decides that they do. There's nothing intrinsic about that.

If you stake a cryptocurrency, that is producing income, block by block based on the network contract and you receive it continuously and not based on when anyone decides that you get money from your investment.

And any currency in income producing when it doesn't inflate as much as other currencies that you're hedging against. Does someone in Venezuela think that the US dollar isn't income producing? The Pound Sterling? Bitcoin? Of course they do.

 

[redsfann]

Do NVIDIA shares have an intrinsic value? Any dividend can be taken as cash or reinvested into more shares.

What's the intrinsic value of Bitcoin?

They have as much intrinsic value as bitcoin.

EVERYTHING since the dawn of mankind is only worth what someone else is willing to pay you for it.
If I want to try and sell my 100 shares of NVIDIA at 600 a share and the buyers are only willing to give me 500 a share for it— then at that moment NVIDIA is worth 500 a share.
Same as BTC. Today someone is willing to give me 36500 for my 1 BTC. Tomorrow they may only offer me 35000.
That’s what functioning markets do— they match buyers and sellers.
Doesn’t matter if it’s a share of stock, a painting by Van Gogh or a cryptocurrency. If a buyer and a seller agree on a price then the deal is made.
You can argue about what bitcoin is until you’re blue in the face, but to me it’s a complete waste of time to do so.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

There's a difference between price and intrinsic value. There's a difference between an income generating asset and a store of value. I hope you guys all get rich and this digital store of value goes to the moon. I'll stay on my "get rich slowly" plan of investing in well run business containing underlying assets that generate profit and other income producing assets (real estate, treasuries).

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

I agree that there’s a difference between intrinsic value and market value but I don’t think that any financial assets have intrinsic value. Land, housing, transportation, weapons all have intrinsic value. That intrinsic value is small compared to their market values.