Getting real tired of this....

[ssd]

This is beginning to really irritate me....

The city of Cleveland will send out 260 layoff notices next week, mostly to younger employees who work for the police and fire departments, as well as EMS.

Here is the entire link:
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-cleveland-layoffs-260-employees-txt,0,1843453.story

More from Cleveland:
Schools....
The school board voted Tuesday to lay off more than 700 teachers union members and 68 paraprofessionals, or aides. Teachers protested, but interim Chief Executive Officer Peter Raskind said he couldn't ignore a "stubborn set of facts," namely a $47.5 million deficit and shrinking enrollment.

The link:
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/04/cleveland_school_layoffs_cast.html

The bold type - they lay off police and fire....they lay off teachers and aides.
These are the people who are actually doing the work. Layoffs are necessary - budgets have to be balanced - I understand that. Why do we not see administrators and clerical staff in the schools as well as city officials and secretaries, etc in the city government being laid off? I am pretty damn sure that the city and schools will still operate quite well without all the bureaucrats, etc clogging up the works.
Makes me sick.

Make all the Cleveland jokes you want - this is happening across the country and they always hit the police and fire and teachers. There are less essential 'extra' employees that should go first in my opinion.

 

[StevieD]

We have to stop rewarding corporations for sending jobs out of the country. People have to get back to work and start buying things again. But with oil and health care pecking at every working man's walet then we better get used to it.

 

[Trench]

This is beginning to really irritate me....

The city of Cleveland will send out 260 layoff notices next week, mostly to younger employees who work for the police and fire departments, as well as EMS.

The bold type - they lay off police and fire....they lay off teachers and aides.
These are the people who are actually doing the work. Layoffs are necessary - budgets have to be balanced - I understand that. Why do we not see administrators and clerical staff in the schools as well as city officials and secretaries, etc in the city government being laid off? I am pretty damn sure that the city and schools will still operate quite well without all the bureaucrats, etc clogging up the works.
Makes me sick.

Make all the Cleveland jokes you want - this is happening across the country and they always hit the police and fire and teachers. There are less essential 'extra' employees that should go first in my opinion.

Yes, it is happening across the country, SSD. We're firing teachers, police & firemen so we can continue to give Big Oil companies $50 Billion a year in subsidies. But there is good news... I'm betting Halliburton, KBR & Blackwater are hiring, providing you possess a specific skill-set and your family doesn't mind relocating to Kabul or Abu Dhabi.

 

[Mags]

We have to stop rewarding corporations for sending jobs out of the country. People have to get back to work and start buying things again. But with oil and health care pecking at every working man's walet then we better get used to it.

OK, serious question. Let's say we found a way to incent (I hate Obama's made up word incentivize - the word incent already existed) companies to bring back production to the US that have moved product development offshore.

What would happen? Lets use, say Nike, as an example. Let's say that they moved their plants to a place of high unemployment and started a factory. Of course, this factory would be unionized, and workers would receive decent wages and benefits. But these compensation costs would be much higher than what they were paying in China for the same product.

Clearly, the upside would be more jobs, and good paying ones (assumably). But their products would be much more expensive.

Would they still sell? Would American's pay a signficant premium for American made Nike's, rather than China made Reeboks?

Now that we've moved to a global economy, and people, being people, will still shop at the Walmarts for the best price and use the internet to find the best price - how can we get companies to come back when our cost of labor is so much higher than countries like China?

I'd love to see these companies come back and bring the jobs back and keep the money in the US - but how could it work for the companies that come back, as they will just have to compete with others that will have a much lower cost structure?

Would we just have to eliminate/reduce all imports, and require people to only "buy American"?

Just curious to see people's thoughts..... without the personal attacks - this isn't a partisan question, just one that has me wondering...

TIA

 

[The Sponge]

OK, serious question. Let's say we found a way to incent (I hate Obama's made up word incentivize - the word incent already existed) companies to bring back production to the US that have moved product development offshore.

What would happen? Lets use, say Nike, as an example. Let's say that they moved their plants to a place of high unemployment and started a factory. Of course, this factory would be unionized, and workers would receive decent wages and benefits. But these compensation costs would be much higher than what they were paying in China for the same product.

Clearly, the upside would be more jobs, and good paying ones (assumably). But their products would be much more expensive.

Would they still sell? Would American's pay a signficant premium for American made Nike's, rather than China made Reeboks?

Now that we've moved to a global economy, and people, being people, will still shop at the Walmarts for the best price and use the internet to find the best price - how can we get companies to come back when our cost of labor is so much higher than countries like China?

I'd love to see these companies come back and bring the jobs back and keep the money in the US - but how could it work for the companies that come back, as they will just have to compete with others that will have a much lower cost structure?

Would we just have to eliminate/reduce all imports, and require people to only "buy American"?

Just curious to see people's thoughts..... without the personal attacks - this isn't a partisan question, just one that has me wondering...

TIA

How about Nike's CEO make 200 million a year instead of a billion a year.

 

[Trench]

Let's say we found a way to incent (I hate Obama's made up word incentivize - the word incent already existed) companies to bring back production to the US that have moved product development offshore.

in?cen?ti?vize   /ɪnˈsɛntɪˌvaɪz/ [in-sen-ti-vahyz]

?verb (used with object), ‐vized, ‐viz?ing.

to give incentives to: The government should incentivize the private sector to create Jobs.

Origin:
1965?70, Americanism

 

[Trench]

Just curious to see people's thoughts..... without the personal attacks - this isn't a partisan question, just one that has me wondering...

TIA

1. Lower the corporate tax rate to 20% and close ALL tax loopholes for corporations. I just returned hundreds of $billions to the U.S. Treasury and most likely created hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs.

2. Cap U.S. defense spending at $1000 per capita. Since the U.S. population is currently 308.7 million and total defense spending for fiscal year 2011 is $895 Billion, I just slashed $586.3 Billion from the budget.

3. Use a portion of the tax revenue and budget savings I've just created to expand Medicare to every single U.S. citizen. Since I've just removed what is by far and away the biggest expense to all U.S. corporations, they can now afford to pay U.S. employees living wages and more generous benefits.

Pretty simple really.

opcorn2

 

[StevieD]

OK, serious question. Let's say we found a way to incent (I hate Obama's made up word incentivize - the word incent already existed) companies to bring back production to the US that have moved product development offshore.

What would happen? Lets use, say Nike, as an example. Let's say that they moved their plants to a place of high unemployment and started a factory. Of course, this factory would be unionized, and workers would receive decent wages and benefits. But these compensation costs would be much higher than what they were paying in China for the same product.

Clearly, the upside would be more jobs, and good paying ones (assumably). But their products would be much more expensive.

Would they still sell? Would American's pay a signficant premium for American made Nike's, rather than China made Reeboks?

Now that we've moved to a global economy, and people, being people, will still shop at the Walmarts for the best price and use the internet to find the best price - how can we get companies to come back when our cost of labor is so much higher than countries like China?

I'd love to see these companies come back and bring the jobs back and keep the money in the US - but how could it work for the companies that come back, as they will just have to compete with others that will have a much lower cost structure?

Would we just have to eliminate/reduce all imports, and require people to only "buy American"?

Just curious to see people's thoughts..... without the personal attacks - this isn't a partisan question, just one that has me wondering...

TIA

What amazes me is that we did not just wake up, as a country, in the stupid patch. We know how to do this. We did it for a hundred years. It is just that corporate greed took over. The answer to most of your questions is yes. American made stuff would be more expensive. But union workers would not necessarily make huge amounts of money. We have to turn this around. We have to tax companies doing business out of the country and we have to put import taxes in place to give American workers a fair chance. In other words don't maker it so easy for Walmart to bring in product from China.
And if these highly paid CEO's can't turn it around fire them.

 

[ssd]

This kinda went off topic - what I am pissed about is the fact that it's always the teachers and fire/police who get the jobs cut. I realize that if they tried to pass a bond issue or a levy and the catch line was:
"if this does not pass, the city officials and administrators will lose their jobs" - people would line up to vote the damn thing down.
Just sucks that the people who are doing the work are the carrot all the time.

 

[Mags]

1. Lower the corporate tax rate to 20% and close ALL tax loopholes for corporations. I just returned hundreds of $billions to the U.S. Treasury and most likely created hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs.

2. Cap U.S. defense spending at $1000 per capita. Since the U.S. population is currently 308.7 million and total defense spending for fiscal year 2011 is $895 Billion, I just slashed $586.3 Billion from the budget.

3. Use a portion of the tax revenue and budget savings I've just created to expand Medicare to every single U.S. citizen. Since I've just removed what is by far and away the biggest expense to all U.S. corporations, they can now afford to pay U.S. employees living wages and more generous benefits.

Pretty simple really.

opcorn2

Interesting take.

health benefits are "by far and away the biggest expense corporations have". Is that true? Everything I've seen shows the benefits are a percentage of salary - usually 30%-40%... so, wouldn't that make your statement false?

I kinda think salaries are way higher than benefits costs - and there are certainly other costs (raw materials, etc), that can be higher than benefits costs.....

Or is that just rhetoric on your part?

 

[Mags]

What amazes me is that we did not just wake up, as a country, in the stupid patch. We know how to do this. We did it for a hundred years. It is just that corporate greed took over. The answer to most of your questions is yes. American made stuff would be more expensive. But union workers would not necessarily make huge amounts of money. We have to turn this around. We have to tax companies doing business out of the country and we have to put import taxes in place to give American workers a fair chance. In other words don't maker it so easy for Walmart to bring in product from China.
And if these highly paid CEO's can't turn it around fire them.

But won't the cost of goods increase so much, that it would hurt the economy as a whole? I'd figure most goods would double in price, maybe triple.

For the majority of the population, that would be a bad thing I would think....

 

[Lumi]

So,

are we going to import Cops, fireman and teachers?

Uhh,

I think we already do that don't we?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FiL0kYwzdNk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


They came from the other side
In bunches at a time
Crowding up the neighborhood
To raise the rates of crime

Some of them got money
Most of them got shit
All they do is come here
To take from our pockets

Import, import, imported society
Import, import, imported society
Import, import, imported society
Import, import, imported society

Don't you fucking see
That you bother me
Genocide
You can't hide
[ Find more Lyrics on http://mp3lyrics.org/9EUc ]

So go home now
Don't come back
Take your goat
Get on your boat
I hate imports
I don't want to hear their shit
I hate imports
Cause I'm just so sick of it

I just want to
Live my life without you
fucking assholes
And I want to
Never see your ass again

Import, import, imported society
Import, import, imported society
Import, import, imported society
Import, import, imported society

Hindus and Ethiopians
You know they're all the same
A huck a buck of Indians
They're all so fucking lame

 

[StevieD]

But won't the cost of goods increase so much, that it would hurt the economy as a whole? I'd figure most goods would double in price, maybe triple.

For the majority of the population, that would be a bad thing I would think....

I don't think the increase would be that much but yes it would be significant. Of course, along with this we need to clean up the Health Care issue and make it affordable.

As more people work more taxes will go in coffers and it becomes a snowball.

This is very simplified energy cost must be put back in line too.

 

[Mags]

I don't think the increase would be that much but yes it would be significant. Of course, along with this we need to clean up the Health Care issue and make it affordable.

As more people work more taxes will go in coffers and it becomes a snowball.

This is very simplified energy cost must be put back in line too.

If you want to go after the cost issue, you will have to go after the Docs/Hospitals/Pharma - where the vast majority of cost is.

It was very easy for Obama to demonize insurance companies - and yes, that will cut cost a small bit, but not much.

The real dollars are the providers - and NO politician has the balls to go after them. After all, Seniors love their doctors.

Put it this way - the doc fix happens every year doesn't it? (Oh yea, Obamacare, as part of its magic numbers, assume that there will be no doc fix going forward).

We need to get people healthier, and not using the system as often. That's the key. Which is why I'm a supporter of Michelle Obama's programs to fight obesity in kids. THAT is a great idea.

 

[StevieD]

If you want to go after the cost issue, you will have to go after the Docs/Hospitals/Pharma - where the vast majority of cost is.

It was very easy for Obama to demonize insurance companies - and yes, that will cut cost a small bit, but not much.

The real dollars are the providers - and NO politician has the balls to go after them. After all, Seniors love their doctors.

Put it this way - the doc fix happens every year doesn't it? (Oh yea, Obamacare, as part of its magic numbers, assume that there will be no doc fix going forward).

We need to get people healthier, and not using the system as often. That's the key. Which is why I'm a supporter of Michelle Obama's programs to fight obesity in kids. THAT is a great idea.

The obese get a bum rap actually. They die quicker and are not such a drain on the system as those "healthy" ones that live into their 90's.

I agree we have to go after the doctors as well as the insurance companies. Both are in this together. We could argue why we keep people aliove so long but as I posted years ago the real terrorists are the doctors. Just a broken finger can cost thousands these days. That is not right.

 

[The Sponge]

The obese get a bum rap actually. They die quicker and are not such a drain on the system as those "healthy" ones that live into their 90's.

I agree we have to go after the doctors as well as the insurance companies. Both are in this together. We could argue why we keep people aliove so long but as I posted years ago the real terrorists are the doctors. Just a broken finger can cost thousands these days. That is not right.

Stevie u ever see how much it cost to be a doctor? Maybe the problem is our colleges are ridiculously overpriced. Heck i know a kid going for a bioengineering degree that is already in a 160 thou hole and he isn't even half way thru.

 

[ssd]

Good point, Sponge. You cap what a Doc can make, any you will no longer have the best and brightest becoming doctors.

Everyone will want to be a f*cktard, err, I mean an investment banker.

(sorry - another swipe with the massive brush of generalization...not ALL of Wall Street are crooks.....just the vast majority - making millions and adding no value)

 

[Trench]

Interesting take.

health benefits are "by far and away the biggest expense corporations have". Is that true? Everything I've seen shows the benefits are a percentage of salary - usually 30%-40%... so, wouldn't that make your statement false?

I kinda think salaries are way higher than benefits costs - and there are certainly other costs (raw materials, etc), that can be higher than benefits costs.....

Or is that just rhetoric on your part?

Rhetoric?

I think above and beyond the cost of wages and salaries was implied, unless you know of a way to run a corporation without paying salaries and wages. :shrug:

 

[The Sponge]

Rhetoric?

I think above and beyond the cost of wages and salaries was implied, unless you know of a way to run a corporation without paying salaries and wages. :shrug:

Simple u just take it to a third world country and make a boat load off of the misery of others. I just never had that all important scumbag gene to try it or support it, like Mags and DTB do.

 

[Mags]

I just never had that all important scumbag gene to try it or support it, like Mags and DTB do.

Hate to break it to you, Spongie, but of all people on this board, you are the most likely to be 100% scumbag. You have no value.