Getting real tired of this....

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
I have $7.00 bucks in front of me right now

You'd better save that for a gallon of gas for your Memorial Day vacation, Lumi... sad, but closer to true than we'd like to think.

I don't know what the answer is for the disparate situation of what products cost to make here compared to elsewhere. I honestly don't think most in this country think lowering the standard of living for most workers in the country is the answer so our products can become more competitive. Many other countries also subsidize certain sectors and products to flood other countries with cheap products and raw materials to intentionally hurt competition - and certain entities here and elsewhere scream about free market capitalism and greatly reduced taxes being the answer. And yet, the tax rates on most things are not historically high in most respects.

The thing we DO know is the really wealthy individuals in this country are doing better than ever, and they are the only ones in the country that are. Not the regular workers, certainly not the lower class. The wealthy are making huge amounts of money, unemployment is very high, so the base theory that allowing the wealthy to make a lot of money, pay less in taxes will create more jobs and opportunity for more people certainly doesn't add up in today's environment.

What we now have is huge corporations with greater control than every before will have even more influence over our politics and policies, and will be able to benefit themselves even more. I see NO reason to think they would change this advantage and bring jobs back here, reduce their profit margins, pay people a decent wage here when they can avoid this abroad (and all kinds of other business benefits like no decent wages, working conditions, benefits, pollution considerations, etc. Who would make this happen? The CEO's? The boards of directors? The shareholders who only really care about their stock price and bottom line performance who would drop the company and stock for anything else that shows a better ROI sometimes more than once in the same week?

We've created this situation by allowing these companies to do this. We allow other countries to dump their products and their raw materials here, to the detriment of our economy and workers - under the guise of being a free market economy. We attack our own citizens for trying to hold on to a good wage and benefits when they are under attack by all of the above situations. It's madness.

Do I have any answers? Not really. But until we take steps to level the playing field, we don't HAVE free market capitalism that can work for all of us. Everyone will have to take the hit from time to time, which includes reducing our exposure to foreign oil. Which includes getting our deficit under control. Which includes holding our elected representatives responsible for their actions, and realizing that what they bring home to our district may not be in the best interest of our country and each of us in the short and long term.

I'd guess more protectionism and support for our companies would be in order, but they also would have to stop taking advantage of the system and using overseas and offshore tactics to benefit. It probably means a realistic look by unions to help their companies be more competitive. And a look by companies to share with their employees to help them more. Lower taxes for companies and individuals with no loopholes and fraud to take advantage of. All kinds of things. But it all has to be on the table - and not just what you personally support at whatever time.
 

Mags

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,813
27
0
You'd better save that for a gallon of gas for your Memorial Day vacation, Lumi... sad, but closer to true than we'd like to think.

I don't know what the answer is for the disparate situation of what products cost to make here compared to elsewhere. I honestly don't think most in this country think lowering the standard of living for most workers in the country is the answer so our products can become more competitive. Many other countries also subsidize certain sectors and products to flood other countries with cheap products and raw materials to intentionally hurt competition - and certain entities here and elsewhere scream about free market capitalism and greatly reduced taxes being the answer. And yet, the tax rates on most things are not historically high in most respects.

The thing we DO know is the really wealthy individuals in this country are doing better than ever, and they are the only ones in the country that are. Not the regular workers, certainly not the lower class. The wealthy are making huge amounts of money, unemployment is very high, so the base theory that allowing the wealthy to make a lot of money, pay less in taxes will create more jobs and opportunity for more people certainly doesn't add up in today's environment.

What we now have is huge corporations with greater control than every before will have even more influence over our politics and policies, and will be able to benefit themselves even more. I see NO reason to think they would change this advantage and bring jobs back here, reduce their profit margins, pay people a decent wage here when they can avoid this abroad (and all kinds of other business benefits like no decent wages, working conditions, benefits, pollution considerations, etc. Who would make this happen? The CEO's? The boards of directors? The shareholders who only really care about their stock price and bottom line performance who would drop the company and stock for anything else that shows a better ROI sometimes more than once in the same week?

We've created this situation by allowing these companies to do this. We allow other countries to dump their products and their raw materials here, to the detriment of our economy and workers - under the guise of being a free market economy. We attack our own citizens for trying to hold on to a good wage and benefits when they are under attack by all of the above situations. It's madness.

Do I have any answers? Not really. But until we take steps to level the playing field, we don't HAVE free market capitalism that can work for all of us. Everyone will have to take the hit from time to time, which includes reducing our exposure to foreign oil. Which includes getting our deficit under control. Which includes holding our elected representatives responsible for their actions, and realizing that what they bring home to our district may not be in the best interest of our country and each of us in the short and long term.

I'd guess more protectionism and support for our companies would be in order, but they also would have to stop taking advantage of the system and using overseas and offshore tactics to benefit. It probably means a realistic look by unions to help their companies be more competitive. And a look by companies to share with their employees to help them more. Lower taxes for companies and individuals with no loopholes and fraud to take advantage of. All kinds of things. But it all has to be on the table - and not just what you personally support at whatever time.

Agreed - great post!
 

rusty

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 24, 2006
4,627
11
0
Under a mask.
Im more concerned of what im paying for grocery's,electricity,car insurance(teen included@school),etc. than a friggin pair of sneakers at wal-mart.Get ready TU but yes its time to end the wars and concentrate on our own country so we can live if anything else a comfortable life without scraping by month to month.
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
The cheap goods makes me laugh. Like the Nikes that they make for about 4 bucks and charge over $100?
Exactly.

The entire "If we make products in this country, we won't be able to afford them" argument is absurd. How do these people think we managed to build a middle-class buying American made products in the 20th century?

Cheap products imported from Asia don't help the middle-class; they hurt it. Cheap disposable Asian products do nothing but feed both runaway consumerism and the export of American manufacturing jobs. As I've already said in another thread, if we remove the stranglehold of healthcare costs on American corporations, they could afford to pay living wages to build many of these same products here in the U.S. and build them at a higher quality.

The problem with Americans isn't that they can't afford to pay more for products; it's that they buy too damn many products. Our landfills are filled cheap plastic products imported from China. American consumers have no one to blame but themselves.
 
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