God or Evolution ?

[Hoops]

Considering how long the universe has existed, considering that it's expanse is virtually limitless in scope, the infinticemal odds had to cash-in sooner or later.

Looks like we are the Cleveland Indians from last night.

 

[yyz]

....to which I say, "Why did life have to come from anywhere?"

 

[buddy]

Because the Creator created creation.

 

[yyz]

...and the Master mastered masturbation!

(And NO..... I don't mean myself, so can the chatter!)


I wish god would email me........

[This message has been edited by yyz (edited 08-06-2001).]

 

[kosar]

Originally posted by buddy:
Because the Creator created creation.

Is that 'inside info', or are you just guessing, like everybody else on this planet?

 

[buddy]

What if it was "inside info?"

How could that make a difference to you?

How could I possibly convice you that it was?

Hey, I got it!!

Post a message in the "General Discussion Forum."

 

[djv]

Just remember whoever it was. Well they, he, her, whom ever is resting. On the seventh day, and the seventh day is still not over.
Amen! Look outs to there stations.

 

[kosar]

Buddy,

I once had a sweat stain that was a dead ringer for Jesus. Would THAT qualify as 'inside info'?

At least I didn't try to capitalize on it monetarily like the Bundy's did on 'Married With Children' when Al had an Elvis sweat stain.

(wistfully thinking) --- I could have made a mint.

 

[yyz]

Kosar,

You coulda got stuck with all those Blue Suede shoes like Al was!

 

[kosar]

YYZ,

LMAO!! No shit man, the Bundy's got the screwgee on THAT deal...LOL

 

[Neemer]

Billboy.....

That's a KEEPER! Thanks...

 

[Neemer]

I'd suggest turning the TV or radio off if you're gonna attempt to read this.....

The Big Bang theory concerning the origin of the universe was spawned about 50 years ago, and soon became the dogma of the evolutionary establishment. It has had many dissenters, however, including the British astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle, the Nobel laureate Hannes Alfven, and astronomers Geoffrey Burbidge and Halton Arp. According to the Big Bang theory, some 10 to 20 billion years ago, all of the matter and energy of the universe was compressed into a cosmic egg, or plasma ball, consisting of sub-atomic particles and radiation. Nobody knows where the cosmic egg came from, or how it got there -- it was just there. For some equally inexplicable reason, the cosmic egg exploded. As the matter and radiation expanded, so the theory says, it cooled sufficiently for elements to form, as protons and electrons combined to form hydrogen of atomic weight one, and neutrons were subsequently captured to form helium of atomic weight four. Most of the gas that formed consisted of hydrogen. These gases, it is then supposed, expanded radially in all directions throughout the universe until they were so highly dispersed that an extremely low vacuum and temperature existed. No oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus, carbon, sulfur, copper, iron, nickel, uranium, or other elements existed. The universe consisted essentially of hydrogen gas. Then somehow, we are told, the molecules of gas that were racing out at an enormous speed in a radial direction began to collapse in on themselves in local areas by gravitational attraction. The molecules within a space of about six trillion miles diameter collapsed to form each star, a hundred billion stars somehow collected to form each of the estimated 100 billion galaxies in the universe, and our own solar system formed about five billion years or so ago from a cloud of dust and gas made up of the exploded remnants of previously existing stars. No satisfactory theory exists to explain any of these events, but cosmologists remained firm in their conviction that all of these marvelous events would eventually yield to credible explanations. But now a cruel fate has befallen the grandest theory of all -- the Big Bang theory.

Based on the Big Bang theory, cosmologists predicted that the distribution of matter throughout the universe would be homogeneous. Thus, based upon the so-called Cosmological Principle, it was postulated that the distribution of galaxies in the universe would be essentially uniform. No matter in which direction one looked, if one looked far enough, one would see the same number of galaxies. There would be no large scale clusters of galaxies or great voids in space. Recent research, however, has revealed massive superclusters of galaxies and vast voids in space. We exist in a very "clumpy" universe.

The present crisis in Big Bang cosmologies began in 1986, when R. Brent Tully, of the University of Hawaii, showed that there were ribbons of superclusters of galaxies 300 million light-years long and 100 million light-years thick, stretching out about a billion light-years, and separated by voids about 300 million light-years across.[1] These structures are much too big for the Big Bang theory to produce. At the speeds at which galaxies are supposed to be moving, it would require 80 billion years to create such a huge complex, but the age of the universe is supposed to be somewhere between 10 and 20 billion years.

In November of 1989, Margaret Geller and John Huchra, of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, announced the results of their research. Their map of the sky revealed what they termed the "Great Wall" -- a huge sheet of galaxies 200 million light years across and 700 million light years long.[2] A team of American, British, and Hungarian astronomers, it is reported, discovered even larger structures.[3] They found galaxies clustered into thin bands spaced about 600 millon light years apart. The pattern of these clusters stretched across about one-fourth of the diameter of the universe, or about seven billion light years. This huge shell and void pattern would have required nearly 150 billion years to form, based on their speed of movement, if produced by the standard Big Bang cosmology.

Even more recently (January 3, 1991), Will Saunders and nine fellow astronomers published the results of their all-sky redshift survey of galaxies detected by the Infrared Astronomical Satellite. This survey revealed the existence of a far-greater number of massive superclusters of galaxies than can be accounted for by Big Bang cosmologies.[4]

In an attempt to salvage the Big Bang theory, cosmologists have invented hypotheses to explain the failures of their hypotheses. One of these is the Cold Dark Matter (CDM) theory. According to this theory, 90-99% of the matter in the universe cannot be detected. If CDM existed, it would supply sufficient gravitational pull to create large clusters of galaxies. The structures discovered during the past few years, however, are so massive that even if CDM did exist, it could not account for their formation. Saunders and co-workers thus state that the CDM model can be ruled out to at least the 97% confidence level. In the same issue of Nature, in which is found the article by Saunders, et al, there appears an article by David Lindley in the "News and Views" section (p. 14) entitled "Cold Dark Matter Makes an Exit." Caltech cosmologist S. George Djorgovski, taking into account the astronomical observations that contradict the CDM theory, states that the demise of the notion of the existence of cold dark matter is inevitable.[5]

Also very recently, the U.S.-European Roentgen Satellite (ROSAT), detecting x-ray emissions, discovered evidence of giant superclusters of quasars on the edge of the universe, supposedly eight to 12 billion light years from the earth.[6] Physicist Paul Steinhardt, of the University of Pennsylvania, states that "This may be the start of the death knell of the cold-dark-matter theory. " Even if this hypothetical matter existed, it still could not explain the existence of these giant clusters of quasars.

If all of this weren't bad enough news for Big Bang cosmologists, results from the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) should really make them wish they had gone into some other field. Based on the Big Bang theory, it was predicted that there should exist a background radiation equivalent to a few degrees Kelvin. Sure enough, in 1965, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, radio engineers at Bell Telephone Laboratories in New Jersey, discovered a microwave background radiation of 2.7? < !#P6MJ239>< !#P255DJ0>K. Evolutionary cosmologists were absolutely delighted. This discovery was considered proof of the Big Bang, and Penzias and Wilson were duly awarded Nobel Prizes. It now appears, however, that the background radiation may turn out to be additional evidence against the Big Bang theory, rather than its proof.

Since the Big Bang theory predicted a homogeneous universe with matter evenly distributed throughout the universe (which it most certainly is not, as described above), evolutionary cosmologists expected that the background radiation would be perfectly smooth. That is, no matter in which direction one looked, the background radiation would be the same. Just as predicted, the background radiation was perfectly smooth. Theorists were delighted, smug in the assurance that this background radiation was the leftover whimper of the Big Bang. Now, however, it turns out that the universe is not homogeneous, but is extremely lumpy, with massive superclusters of galaxies and great voids in space. Thus , if the background radiation is left over from the Big Bang, it should not be smooth, but should be more intense in certain directions than in others, indicating inhomogeneities at the very start of the universe, immediately following the initial moments of the Big Bang. Astronomers thus began to search for differences in the background radiations. All measurements showed it to be perfectly smooth. Thus COBE was launched to an orbit 559 miles above the earth, carrying sensitive instruments to measure the background radiation. Alas, preliminary data from COBE announced in January, show absolutely no evidence of inhomogeneity in the background radiation. It is perfectly smooth.[7]

"No energetic processes, even unknown ones, could have occurred that were vigorous enough to either create the large-scale structures astronomers have observed or stop their headlong motion once created. There is simply no way to form these structures in the 20 billion years since the Big Bang."[8]

Of course, the demise of the Big Bang theory will not discourage evolutionary theorists from proposing other theories. In fact, theories based on plasma processes and a revised steady-state theory have already been advanced to replace Big Bang cosmologies."[9],[10],[11]

Eventually, all such theories will fail, for "in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1). "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork" (Psalm 19:1).


[This message has been edited by Neemer (edited 08-06-2001).]

 

[Senor Capper]

Originally posted by Fred:
Booking this thread, no. of posts
over 50 $1.75
under 50 $1.95 (odds courtesy of SportsTAB)

Damn so much for the under

 

[hello there]

"Because the Creator created creation."

HAA HA HAAAA BUDDY.....that's the funniest line I ever read. I'm not mocking it, it's just funny,, not sure why though. heh heh!

 

[hello there]

yyz,

You're asking us to somehow prove to you or give you evidence of why or how God exists.....you see, the thing is, we are merely humans, we don't have the power or intelligence to know yet until we do meet God.....it's like asking a little ant to explain the theory of relativity, the ant will never gain or can hold that much knowledge no matter how much you teach or train that ant, it's merely an insect, it can never reach human intelligence level, just like we can't reach Godlike or angel like level.

 

[hello there]

If u ask me how I know this....I don't know, I'm just an ant.

 

[bear]

Some very thoughtful and insightful stuff in this discussion. ......and some not so.

Anyhow, a pretty fair thinker, philosopher postulates something like Buddy's (creation,creator)hypothesis.....proofs for the existance of God .....1.. was the idea of the unmoved mover. Since all motion is caused by other things in motion then motion can and indeed must trace back to an unmoved mover (God) Oh...there are more but I would have to re- read from Thomas Acquinas...He has several such "proofs" that being the only one I remember after 30 years.
bear

 

[crazyjoe]

a quote from sgt. joe friday: just the facts ma'am...just give me the facts.


i don't want the whole story, forget about the theories just stick to the facts ma'am.

 

[Neemer]

The Big Bang theory is inconsistent, misleading, dangerous and untrue to God's divine record of his creation! John Clayton says that educated atheists hate the Big Bang theory because they know it assumes creation.

John says that something exploded. Where in the world does he get that idea? If John would explain the Big Bang as a theory of unbelievers, all would be well, but John teaches it as a fact!

Unbelievers are comfortable with the Big Bang theory of origins because it is an alternative to believing in God's method of creation. Carl Sagan, a noted atheist, accepts the Big Bang explanation of the origin of the universe and seems comfortable with it, but he does not accept creation.

Brother Clayton says, "The Bible has not given a method of creation that God used to bring things into existence."

The Bible says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Gen. 1:1). But John holds to the view that none of us knows how the worlds were made because we weren't there. That's right- we weren't there, but God tells us how he created things. "By the Word of the Lord were the heavens made: and ail the host of them by the breath of his mouth ...

God created the heavens and the earth by his Word. He spoke it into existence! That's the how. "Through faith we understand that the worlds, were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" (Heb. 11:3). There it is; we know how the worlds were brought into being. The Bible tells us.

What's so difficult in believing in God's method of creation? John says God had no method of creation. God's power, exercised through his Word, created the earth. "Ah Lord God! behold, thou hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee" (Jer. 32:17). God's power, his arm, his Word did the creating, not an explosion!

We could stop here and walk away praising God for his marvelous, wonderful, powerful Word of creation, but please read the following: Jeremiah 32:17; 10:11?12; 27:5; Genesis 2:3?4; Psalm 115:15?16; 121:2; 124:8; 134:3; 136:5?6; 146:6; 148:5; Isaiah 40:26; 37:16; Revelation 10:6.

John Clayton began his article with this sentence, "It God created the earth and if he described what he did in Genesis, why does the [scientific] evidence not fit the Genesis account?"

The fact is: it does!

John ends his article with this sentence, "Why not be silent where the Bible is silent and refuse to allow denominational tradition and human religious theories to create conflict with the scientific evidence?"

If John would do what he recommends, there would be no problem. In the first sentence above, John states a great fact-but he contradicts it when he gives us his Big Bang theory! John is not silent where the Bible is silent; he goes beyond the Word of God in teaching the Big Bang theory of creation.

The Big Bang theory did not originate with God, but with men. I know many unbelievers who accept the Big Bang theory of creation. You can believe in the Big Bang theory without believing in God, but you can't believe in God's method without believing in his divine record of creation!

"Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together" (Isa. 48:13).

"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen"(1 Pet. 4:11).

The Bible never speaks of an explosion known as the Big Bang theory nor any other theory, but it does speak of God's powerful, infallible divine Word spoken by Jehovah himself in the creating of the heavens and earth and all things!

Out of nothing came everything. God simply spoke things into existence.

 

[crazyjoe]

the big bang theory

the most important word here is "theory" a theory is a belief that has not been scientifically tested and proven, yet.


ma'am i just want the facts... tell me what you saw tell what you know.
just the facts ma'am.