John Kerry, 2005, says our troops are "terrorizing" the Iraqi's

CHARLESMANSON

Hated
Forum Member
Jan 7, 2004
2,651
15
0
90
CORCORAN, CA
Kosar I am so sorry that Iraq will not be like it used to be. I mean seeing Saddam Hussein in a courtroom must bring you to tears huh?

Sorry but I don't like mass genocide Kosar. That country needed to be invaded and thank god Bush was man enough to do it. No more Uday. No more Qusay. No more Saddam. No more 400,000 mass graves BOO HOO KOSAR :cry:


I think we will acheive victory. So do the troops :clap: That's the difference between you and I. One of us thinks positive, one of us thinks negative. Besides I speak with people who have both been to Iraq and people currently in Iraq and they tell an entirely different story than you do. I trust the troops. Sorry.
 
Last edited:

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,556
214
63
"the bunker"
how else do you find the bomb makers and terrorists that have always hidden inside the populace?...

other than literally go door to door and root them out?...

who has the magic wand?....it`s a dirty business...but it`s necessary...

whether we do it until the iraqi`s can handle it or not...it must be done...

another shot across the bow from the "politically correct" to try and handcuff us...and give comfort to the enemy...

"we can`t win"....."how dare we roust the terrorists and bomb makers"......"don`t mishandle the koran"..."don`t touch the prisoners"....

the media broadcasting which countries are allowing our planes to land...which countries are allowing the cia access....continually carping about abu gharaib.....

yet very little mention of joe lieberman`s trip to iraq...or the senators that actually visited abu gharaib and gave it a big thumbs up...

how obvious is it?...can anyone picture this garbage going on during world war 2?...

people`s politics trumping the best interests of our country...

i doubt that anyone can make the argument that losing in iraq is in our best interests...

if you believe that,let me know...i`ll be glad to school you...
 

steve2881

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2005
128
0
0
What I don't get???

What I don't get???

I cant understand what the liberal left wants?? So W wasn't doing enough before 9/11?? When in actuality clinton had 8 years and plenty of opportunities to thwart this growing fundamentalism. Now that 9/11 has happened, Bush is doing everything in his power to fix what clinton fouled up, and clinton goes around the world saying what he would have done now.(there is irony in there some where.) Bush understands the difference between pre 9/11 and post 9/11. He knows that we cannot allow these regimes(Taliban, Saddam) to go unchecked any longer.
On top of that the left all of the sudden has all of this compassion towrds the same people who are trying to kill us. Water-boarding, loud music, lack of sleep, i don't care what it takes to save American lives.The president's job first and foremost is TO PROTECT AMERICANS,and that is what he believes he is doing.

I guarantee you if another attack happens the left will say W didn't do enough. I also love the fact that the left gives Bush no credit whatsoever for the lack of attacks in this country in 4 plus years. The hypocrisy is almost to hard to believe.

Drastic times call for drastic measures.
 

steve2881

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2005
128
0
0
sorry about the rant

sorry about the rant

to stay on topic, it is disgraceful and MURDEROUS, yes murderous for highly regarded government officials to fuel insurgents in any way shape or form. And if you don't think the Arab world hears this stuff from Dean, and Kerry, you have your head in the sand. These statements affect the insurgents resolve, their willingness to continue etc. I honestly don't know how guys like Kerry and Dean can sleep at night knowing what they say could be dangerous to our soldgiers. Whether it is right or wrong to be there now doesn't matter. We must be steadfast, UNIFIED, and resolute. There will be a time to critique, but it is not now. To politicize life or death, as Kerry and Dean are, is disgraceful.

You Dem's need to follow the leadership of Lieberman, he is the only guy I've heard in your party that seems to understand the magnitude of what is going on.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
steve2881 said:
I guarantee you if another attack happens the left will say W didn't do enough.

The 9/11 bi-partisan commission has recently said that this admin has not implemented many things that they recommended. The statement came from Kean, a republican. So PLEASE save this bullshit about what the 'left' would say.


I also love the fact that the left gives Bush no credit whatsoever for the lack of attacks in this country in 4 plus years. The hypocrisy is almost to hard to believe.

Yeah, the 'hypocrisy.' While we're at it, let's give Clinton 'credit' for no attacks from 1993-2000. That's almost twice as long as 4 years so I assume you REALLY give Slick props.

Let's go even further down this 3rd grade debating tactic lane:

Attacks on our homeland from 1941-1993? 1

Citizens killed under Clintons watch on our homeland? 8

Years that we were kept safe after that? 7

Citizens killed on W's watch on 9/11? Around 3000

Soldiers klilled in W's 'war' against a country that has never taken an American life? 2100 and counting

Soldiers wounded in said war? Approx 16,000 with approx half of them severely maimed.

You see how stupid some of things sound to you?

So please forgive people for not fawning over W for 'keeping us safe' for 4 years. Christ.
 

MrChristo

The Zapper
Forum Member
Nov 11, 2001
4,414
5
0
Sexlexia...
steve2881....Just incase you haven't read a few other threads in this forum, here's a couple of nice articles that you might want to read...
(The report that Kosar is talking about)


Failing Grades From 9/11 Panel
December 7, 2005
The former Sept. 11 Commission's final report makes for some scary reading. It says that after four years, billions of dollars and the revamping of the nation's intelligence system, government has failed to make Americans safe from terrorists.

Of its 41 initial recommendations, the commission gives the effort to secure America more Fs than As.

ADVERTISEMENT

That, as commission Chairman Thomas H. Kean so succinctly put it, is unacceptable.

Some of the basic recommendations that have not been met include coordination of fire and police communication lines. In New York on 9/11, police and fire units couldn't talk with one another. Tragic mistakes occurred.

The commission's initial report on what happened the day the World Trade Center and Pentagon were bombed with passenger jets pointed to huge information gaps that hampered rescue efforts and led to loss of lives. Similar communication flaws made rescue efforts in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina more difficult than they needed to be.

What will it take to get Congress to heed Mr. Kean and his fellow commissioners and send help that will allow police and fire to communicate across radio spectrums? Congress should also make sure that states and municipalities put their homeland security grants to good use. Needless to say, the targets most vulnerable to attack, such as New York and Washington, should be subsidized more heavily to defend against terrorism.

Mr. Kean said the commission found that one city had spent its anti-terrorism money to air-condition its garbage trucks. A better system of accountability for the money, however it is allocated, would seem to be in order.

The war on terror may be raging abroad, but the sense of urgency that put the 9/11 Commission in business is not present at home. That must be very frustrating to the commissioners who worked diligently to analyze the events that led to the Sept. 11 disasters and came up with a plan that would lessen the likelihood of a repeat attack.

Congress and the Bush administration owe the commissioners a thank-you in the form of a promise to follow up on their good work.


Bush administration eliminating 19-year-old international terrorism report
By Jonathan S. Landay
Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - The State Department decided to stop publishing an annual report on international terrorism after the government's top terrorism center concluded that there were more terrorist attacks in 2004 than in any year since 1985, the first year the publication covered.

Several U.S. officials defended the abrupt decision, saying the methodology the National Counterterrorism Center used to generate statistics for the report may have been faulty, such as the inclusion of incidents that may not have been terrorism.

Last year, the number of incidents in 2003 was undercounted, forcing a revision of the report, "Patterns of Global Terrorism."

But other current and former officials charged that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's office ordered "Patterns of Global Terrorism" eliminated several weeks ago because the 2004 statistics raised disturbing questions about the Bush's administration's frequent claims of progress in the war against terrorism.

"Instead of dealing with the facts and dealing with them in an intelligent fashion, they try to hide their facts from the American public," charged Larry C. Johnson, a former CIA analyst and State Department terrorism expert who first disclosed the decision to eliminate the report in The Counterterrorism Blog, an online journal.

Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., who was among the leading critics of last year's mix-up, reacted angrily to the decision.

"This is the definitive report on the incidence of terrorism around the world. It should be unthinkable that there would be an effort to withhold it - or any of the key data - from the public. The Bush administration should stop playing politics with this critical report."

A senior State Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, confirmed that the publication was being eliminated, but said the allegation that it was being done for political reasons was "categorically untrue."

According to Johnson and U.S. intelligence officials familiar with the issue, statistics that the National Counterterrorism Center provided to the State Department reported 625 "significant" terrorist attacks in 2004.

That compared with 175 such incidents in 2003, the highest number in two decades.

The statistics didn't include attacks on American troops in Iraq, which President Bush as recently as Tuesday called "a central front in the war on terror."

The intelligence officials requested anonymity because the information is classified and because, they said, they feared White House retribution. Johnson declined to say how he obtained the figures.

Another U.S. official, who also requested anonymity, said analysts from the counterterrorism center were especially careful in amassing and reviewing the data because of the political turmoil created by last year's errors.

Last June, the administration was forced to issue a revised version of the report for 2003 that showed a higher number of significant terrorist attacks and more than twice the number of fatalities than had been presented in the original report two months earlier.

The snafu was embarrassing for the White House, which had used the original version to bolster President Bush's election-campaign claim that the war in Iraq had advanced the fight against terrorism.

U.S. officials blamed last year's mix-up on bureaucratic mistakes involving the Terrorist Threat Integration Center, the forerunner of the National Counterterrorism Center.

Created last year on the recommendation of the independent commission that investigated the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the center is the government's primary organization for analyzing and integrating all U.S. government intelligence on terrorism.

The State Department published "Patterns of Global Terrorism" under a law that requires it to submit to the House of Representatives and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee a country-by-country terrorism assessment by April 30 each year.

A declassified version of the report has been made public since 1986 in the form of a glossy booklet, even though there was no legal requirement to produce one.

The senior State Department official said a report on global terrorism would be sent this year to lawmakers and made available to the public in place of "Patterns of Global Terrorism," but that it wouldn't contain statistical data.

He said that decision was taken because the State Department believed that the National Counterterrorism Center "is now the authoritative government agency for the analysis of global terrorism. We believe that the NCTC should compile and publish the relevant data on that subject."

He didn't answer questions about whether the data would be made available to the public, saying, "We will be consulting (with Congress) ... on who should publish and in what form."

Another U.S. official said Rice's office was leery of the methodology the National Counterterrorism Center used to generate the data for 2004, believing that analysts anxious to avoid a repetition of last year's undercount included incidents that may not have been terrorist attacks.

But the U.S. intelligence officials said Rice's office decided to eliminate "Patterns of Global Terrorism" when the counterterrorism center declined to use alternative methodology that would have reported fewer significant attacks.

The officials said they interpreted Rice's action as an attempt to avoid releasing statistics that would contradict the administration's claims that it's winning the war against terrorism.


***************

Oh, and as I asked in yet another thread....

How many times has Canada been a terrorist target in the last 4 years?

Does that mean then, that their PM is a genius for not sending any troops to the Middle East?

This "4 year" stuff is possibly the least relevant argument you could come up with.
 

steve2881

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2005
128
0
0
Kosar,You honestly think you can lay the blame of 9/11 at Bush's feet??? That is laughable. Eight years to fix a problem, or 8 months?? Give me a break.
How many people died at the hands of TRUMAN???
How many Died at the hands of CARTER???

Would you consider Carter a more effective president than Truman???
Don't dodge this. Truman has had one of the most positive effects on the FREE world in the 20th century. You do not become an effective president by ignoring problems as they are arising because it is the easiest thing to do.(Carter Iran; Clinton Taliban). Carter did not understand the gravity of situations . I cannot imagine having Carter, Kerry, Kennedy, or Dean guiding our country right now. The thought is depressing.
I also don't remember Reagan being very popular at certain times in his presidency.

Truman was a democrat, and Reagan was a republican, but they shared a common thread. They understand the BIG picture, that is what guys like you, soft leftist's, don't seem to grasp. Anything, and everything thats leads to greatness, personally, professionally, or nationally takes great sacrifice.
 

steve2881

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2005
128
0
0
Terrorist don't attack Cananda for the same reason they don't attack mexico, they are INSIGNIFICANT, and pose no direct threat to their desire to revert the world back to the 14th century. I.E. The practice of cutting your wife's head off because she made eye contact with someone other than her husband.
 

dr. freeze

BIG12 KING
Forum Member
Aug 25, 2001
7,170
8
0
Mansion
lol what about Reno's attack on our homeland at Waco

seems like that should account for at least 1 attack under Clinton

why not mention these women and children murdered by the Clintonistas
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
steve2881 said:
Kosar,You honestly think you can lay the blame of 9/11 at Bush's feet???

No, not at all. I guess you didn't understand my post. Saying that Bush was responsible for 9/11 is akin to praising him for 'keeping us safe' for a whole four years. Read the post and think about it.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
steve2881 said:
Would you consider Carter a more effective president than Truman???
Don't dodge this.

They understand the BIG picture, that is what guys like you, soft leftist's, don't seem to grasp. Anything, and everything thats leads to greatness, personally, professionally, or nationally takes great sacrifice.

Don't dodge this? OK- Truman was more effective than Carter. Bobo the clown would be more effective than Carter.

I wouldn't call me a 'soft leftist', my man. Maybe just a realist about this Iraq war.
 

MrChristo

The Zapper
Forum Member
Nov 11, 2001
4,414
5
0
Sexlexia...
You honestly think you can lay the blame of 9/11 at Bush's feet??? That is laughable.

What Kosar is saying (sorry...no puppet I promise! :D) is that saying, "4 years since an attack, Bush is a genius!!"...is laughable!

What did you people expect? That Bin Laden would stage a new attack monthly?....weekly?....every hour on the hour??

4 years!!...It's an utterly insignificant time to be judging anyone on....esp. in light of the comittee report (which I'll assume you read?), that basically says that nowhere near enough has been done!!...and that it's more good luck than good management that something else hasn't happened.

Terrorist don't attack Cananda for the same reason they don't attack mexico, they are INSIGNIFICANT

....fine than, how about a more significant example?

Hong Kong?
Toyko?
Singapore?
Berlin?........how many terrorist attacks in the last4 years?

And again, go and tell the people of London how well this 'coalition' is doing such a great job at scaring the terrorists into holes.

You gotta love the way it goes between "America" is safer now, to the "world" is a safer place, depending on which argument you're trying to push.

EDIT: Sorry...Didn't realise Kosar had answered already.
 
Last edited:

Clem D

Mad Pisser
Forum Member
May 26, 2004
11,277
31
0
52
Long Branch NJ
Kerry was trying to say that at this stage of the game the Iraqi military should be doing the dirty work.

Which I agree with.

That said the wording was idiotic.
I ask you this how many dumb things has dummya said?
 

steve2881

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2005
128
0
0
The point is....

The point is....

Kosar, you cannot equate the number of deaths on a pres. watch to his effectiveness as a president. Thats the point I was trying to make. I truly believe the hardships that we are going through now will pay off ten-fold for the people of the middle east and the western world for years to come.

Also Christo, I read the new 9/11 preparedness report, and i agree with you. I work in a job where we have to adhere to post 9/11 requirements. I can tell you this from work experience, the requirements are very stringent and are being worked on to attain. But, I don't think this VERY LARGE country will ever be to a point where we are completely safe from terrorists.

Also Christo;

So Bush gets no praise for thwarting several terrorist attacks in the last four years, but he is the one that gets the blame for the shitty new 9/11 report?? I don't quite understand that. I guess he is just lucky??

and anther question that always seems to perplex democrats is, "what would Kerry, Dean, Etc. do differently NOW that we are over there??" They never quite have an answer for that question.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
steve2881 said:
Kosar, you cannot equate the number of deaths on a pres. watch to his effectiveness as a president.

I agree, but that's exactly what you were trying to do when you laud Bush for 'keeping us safe' for a whole 4 years. I do not blame Bush for 9/11, nor do I think it's some incredible feat to not have an attack here in 4 years.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,424
128
63
Bowling Green Ky
on the "Failing Grades From 9/11 Panel" on dec 2005

I think something most people are not aware of is this panel made most of their "assumptions" whether correct or incorrect or 2nd hand info or media reports as they have had no supeona power or committes reporting to them in a long time. So where are they getting their info. Saw one of them on tv -can't remember name or allifiation- going on about waste of money and said in most condecending way that they have proof money was even being spent for kevlar vest for animals. Which I fould later to be true but would not sounded near as bad had they mentioned those animals were bomb sniffing dogs.
I am sure there have been lots of downfalls and gross waste of money as you will have in gov in general.
Scary to think that one terrorist with scuba gear and a bomb placed on levee at N.O. could have caused more deaths than Katrina as there would have been no alert.
Only way to escape muslim extremist threat is have no muslim population--plain and simple.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
DOGS THAT BARK said:
on the "Failing Grades From 9/11 Panel" on dec 2005

I think something most people are not aware of is this panel made most of their "assumptions" whether correct or incorrect or 2nd hand info or media reports as they have had no supeona power or committes reporting to them in a long time. So where are they getting their info. Saw one of them on tv -can't remember name or allifiation- going on about waste of money and said in most condecending way that they have proof money was even being spent for kevlar vest for animals. Which I fould later to be true but would not sounded near as bad had they mentioned those animals were bomb sniffing dogs.
I am sure there have been lots of downfalls and gross waste of money as you will have in gov in general.
Scary to think that one terrorist with scuba gear and a bomb placed on levee at N.O. could have caused more deaths than Katrina as there would have been no alert.
Only way to escape muslim extremist threat is have no muslim population--plain and simple.


I'm not quite sure that's where the commission is getting all of their info. I mean, they are congressmen. Wouldn't it be pretty easy for them to find out if a particular recommendation of theirs was implemented?

Maybe some commission member saw something in the media about kevlar for dogs and then jumped the gun and made a comment about it, but you're making quite a leap to say that the media and '2nd hand info' is where they're getting all their info. A pretty big assumption.

As far as your last sentence, well, you're exactly right. Obviously that will not happen, but I agree that no matter how many bodies and dollars we throw at Iraq, it will not make us safer and strong arguments can be made that it will have/has made us less safe.
 

steve2881

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2005
128
0
0
Dogs....

Dogs....

I think that may be a little extreme, the whole no muslim thing. I have neve read the koran or claim to be an expert on it, but I have read articles and listened to "experts" and what they say really troubles me. They claim they are sections in the koran that speak of death to infidels, etc. etc. I will not claim to know if that is fact or fiction, but ifit is fact it seems like it will be awfully hard to get billions of muslims to appreciate a bunch of infidels regardless of what we do for them.
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top