Nolan interviews Sportsbook Manager of the Stardust Casino

MadJack

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the rest can be found on Nolan's page or the front page www.madjacksports.com

INTRODUCTION: Meet Joe Lupo. He's arguably the most powerful "player" in sports gambling today. Lupo is the Race and Sportsbook Manager of the Stardust Casino, which has long been considered the preeminent sports betting establishment in Las Vegas. While other casinos such as the Mirage and the MGM Grand may handle greater overall volume of betting activity than the Stardust, no sportsbook is quite as influential in terms of its sportsbook management philosophy, its opening lines, its line movements, and overall respectability than the Stardust Las Vegas. One thing is certain -- at the Stardust, sports bettors are truly welcome customers. From its "Sports Handicapper's Library" located on-site, to the daily radio show which is pumped directly into the sportsbook allowing bettors to make wiser, more informed decisions, the Stardust is one of the few sportsbooks that truly understands the needs and wishes of the modern day sports handicapper. When the Stardust makes or moves its line, the rest of the industry follows. And when Joe Lupo speaks, sports bettors and industry insiders listen.
 

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A very powerful man indeed, I just wanted to take this opportunityto thank Nolan for asking Joe Lupo a question that I had emailed him with (World Cup-Soccer). As expected Mr.Lupo's response was Argentia or Italy. Get on it early guys the lines are +400 and +600 respectively to win the world cup.

Thanks Nolan for the great interview.
 

dawgball

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Great interview, Nolan.

Congratulations, you should take this opportunity as a great compliment to your professional nature.
 

auspice

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Nolan

Nice interview. Terrible introduction and completely false with "arguably the most powerful "player" in sports gambling today".

You either know nothing of the gambling landscape out there or you've been smoking crack. He really has NO substantial impact on the gaming landscape as it now exists.

The offshores and the people who play into the offshores are the players in this world economy of gaming. The Vegas people are now merely spectactors.

Sure, the Stardust might be the first out with the betting lines on some sports. So what? Their lines mean nothing to the gaming economy as a whole. Why? Because as soon as the offshores come out with their numbers (which by the way...completely disregard the Stardust numbers in their opening lines) the Stardust moves their numbers to almost exactly the same as the offshores because of arbitrage play. Irregardless of what the Stardust puts up, the number is almost immediately bet down/up to the concensus number in the offshore arena. Now how does that impact the gaming landscape in the least? It simply doesn't.

Billy Walters is the main man. He has been for at least the last ten years and nothing has remotely changed that. Who would be second? Probably someone like Spiro, who is both a owner and player.

Your interview was ok but your introduction was a fairy tale.
 
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Neemer

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Billy Walters is the main man

didn't realize Billy was runnin' a Vegas sportsbook...:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
 

auspice

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Neemer

You need a quick refresher in reading comprehension. The phrase didn't qualify "player in the industry" as running a vegas sportsbook.

Think real quick here. Who has the biggest impact on the global gaming landscape. A bm of a Vegas sportsbook whose numbers mean very little as they change to the offshore numbers almost as quickly as they're put up offshore or THE guy that changes all the numbers in every book directly or indirectly offshore, in vegas and all the credit shops throughout the world.
 
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taoist

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LMFAO!!! ...good one Neemer. ;)

...as for the article, I thought it was very informative. Thanks Nolan for all you do around here. It is very much appreciated...mostly by those of us that don't have Neemer's 12 1/2 inch foot up their asses. :D

Nolan, I'll be looking forward to the next installment on your page. :)
 

beachbum

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first i want to thank nolam 4 writing the article it tells everyone what i been hearing since i sign on here don't bet a game just 4 the sake of it or bet a game because it's on tv
second i heard of joe lupo but i never heard of billy walters can someone help me out with his resume thanks
 

MadJack

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here's one article about BW for those that don't know of him.

By The Shrink
March 22, 2002




Bill Walters is considered by many experts to be the most successful sports bettor in the world today. His road to glory has not been an easy one, as he arrived in Las Vegas more than two decades ago without a penny to his name.

When I was travelling with a friend of mine in Las Vegas a couple of months ago, we visited this breathtaking new golf course called Bali Hai. Then we ran into its owner, Bill Walters.

The one thing that struck me most during that visit was learning just how passionate Walters becomes when talking about sports betting. My friend was fascinated to learn that Walters owns many businesses that have nothing to do with sports betting. So he asked Walters, "Out of all the different types of businesses you are involved in, which do you enjoy the most?"

Walters turned around - his eyes were radiating and his mouth smiling - and responded "Why, it's sports betting of course!"

Although many articles have focused on his life, legal battles, successes and failures, I haven't found one column focusing on whether he is believed to be good for the offshore gambling industry.

I will attempt to answer this difficult question with the help of some very well respected bookmakers and gamblers.

When I travel offshore and gather with sports book owners, they ALWAYS talk about Walters. In some circles, he is nicknamed "the devil" or "el diablo" because Walters can be a bookmaker's nightmare.

These same bookmakers love sharing their belief about which side of games they think he is on, but in reality, they don't always know.

Walters is feared, dreaded, and chastised by many offshore bookmakers. Some will not take a single bet from anyone they suspect is part of his group or worse yet, a gambler who follows him.

When I asked several bookmakers and gamblers if they thought Bill Walters was good for the offshore gambling industry, here's what some had to say.

"Walters creates action, which is good, but overall he's not good for my office," reported Billy Scott from WWTS in Antigua. "The gamblers who follow Walters, and end up taking the third number, lose in the long run. The way you can make money on Walters is to keep the money he bets on the original number very low.

"For example, I am pleased when my sports book gets 50 percent of the action on our final number. Theoretically, we'd love to book five percent of our total action on a game on our opening number, 10 percent on our second number, 15 percent on our third number, and 50 percent on our final number."

Rick from BetAllworld in Curacao stated, "This is a very tough question to answer. I would have to say that he's not good for the offshore industry itself and here's why.

"Billy Walters is a one man wrecking crew and he corners the market. Nobody knows what he's doing. Therefore, you can't move your numbers effectively, because you never know what side of a game he is really on. Walters puts out these fake leads, and the sports books who move on air get caught taking bets getting two points the worst of it.

"But, even though you don't have to like this guy, you have to respect him. Anyone who doesn't is a fool. Walters deserves respect because he is the best."

Rio management and CRIS management share opposing views.

"At a dinner I attended with some of the most elite bookmakers this industry has ever known, this same question surfaced, said a manager from Rio.

"The consensus opinion was that without an individual like Walters, who creates such additional volume, volatility, buy-backs, and middling, the industry would be stagnant without his presence. I believe he is huge for offshore sports betting.

Ignorant bookmakers don't like him, but the more sophisticated offices could care less because they know how to make money off of him. And even though Walters almost put RIO out of business years ago, you can't ignore the fact that he's a legend. Many people don't realize that we will never see another sports bettor of this magnitude again in our lifetime. Walters is to sports betting what Michael Jordan was to basketball and what Bill Gates has been to the Internet. Walters is such a genius in this industry and no one will ever be able to parallel his accomplishments.

The management at CRIS agreed with Rio.

"I don't believe Walters hurts offshore gambling. I think he is a plus. Although you never know what side of a game he is on, he creates such tremendous volume and action, which is good for us.

People follow him, 'middle' because of him, and bet because of his ability to manipulate lines. And even though he's next to impossible to beat, the action he generates more than compensates for what we lose to him in our office.

The key is limiting him. Then, everything else should fall into place. It doesn't matter to us if we ever know the real side of his games, so long as we can generate two- sided action off of him. And we usually do.

Reno and Krackman, two respected gamblers, both believe Walters to be the best thing since apple pie. And they aren't the only gamblers who feel this way.

When I read some posting forums, Reno has gone so far as saying, "I worship Billy Walters because he creates middles."

Krackman agrees and told me that without the line movements that Walters creates, he wouldn't be betting nearly as many games offshore.

Other successful sports bettors I have interviewed feel the same way. They tell me that their success is directly attributed to Walters' uncanny ability of manipulating line movements. These gamblers don't have to worry about being on the 'right' side of a game because they are often able to lay two points and take back four on the same game.

For those who may not know much about 'middling,' this is a position that is very favorable for gamblers in the long run and they wind up making serious money given this scenario.

So, is Billy Walters good for offshore sports betting? It all depends on which side of the fence one is positioned.

For gamblers, he is idolized, revered, and exalted. For some bookmakers, he is feared, dreaded, and loathed.

However, the one thing everyone can agree upon is that he is the most successful sports bettor we have ever known.
 

Nolan Dalla

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I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with regard to WHO is the most powerful individual in sports gambling today -- but Lupo is certainly one of them. So, I'll stick by my introductory comments (Note: If Mike Roxy were still running LVSC he would most certainly get that tagline). Trouble with offshores is that their executives are largely anonymous (Spiro the exception) and have not been around long enough to constitute being movers and shakers in the industry. The comment above about the Stardust correcting its line late to match the offshores is just plain ludicrous. While the offshores certainly influence the Vegas line (that is, WHEN they have a line out earlier than Vegas -- which is not always the case), LVSC has a much greater influence on the number that comes out that any line posted at an offshore.

As for the interview, I don't think it was that revealing. There are no secrets contained therein. I hoped Lupo would be more forthcoming with information, but he was guarded in his comments on that day. Perhaps another person might have been able to get more information, but I did the best I could.

By the way -- when it comes to "influential" people in the sports gambling business, sadly the REAL people at the top of that list would probably be Jim Fiest and and Mike Warren (et.al). They touch more lives (negatively) than anyone else. To my knowledge, Billy Walters influence and connection to the general public is negligible. It doesn't exist.

-- Nolan Dalla
 

auspice

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Nolan

You've completely answered any questions I had about you with your last post. My sincere best wishes to you.
 

Hoops

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Auspice- I'm sure that you are just upset that Art Manteris wasn't the subject and didn't get the "arguably the most powerful player in sports gambling today" tagline instead of Joe Lupo.


:)
 

kosar

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"Originally posted by Nolan Dalla:
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with regard to WHO is the most powerful individual in sports gambling today -- but Lupo is certainly one of them."


While Lupo is among the more active and well-known sportsbook managers in Vegas (mostly because of his longevity at the Stardust), he is but a medium-sized fish in a small pond when it comes to the current sportsbetting environment. Any sort of innovative features that the Stardust offers (lottery, capping library etc.) were well in place when Lupo took over in 1991 (I believe). Just like any other manager in Vegas, he is hamstrung by corporate forces that limit any sort of imagination or initiative by the man in charge. He is far from being an influential or poweful figure in sports betting today. It's not his fault, but it's just not possible for any Vegas manager to be in that position.



"(Note: If Mike Roxy were still running LVSC he would most certainly get that tagline)."


Do you feel that the work of LVSC has declined since Roxy retired 4 or so years ago? If so, how do you figure that, especially given your subsequesnt comments? If not, then why wouldn't Pete Korner 'get that tagline' today?

If your point is that LVSC revolutionized linesmaking, then why wouldn't Roxy still get that 'tagline' today, even though he currently spends his days in Thailand partying, rather than running LVSC?

If you were to give Roxy that 'tagline', then wouldn't you have to mention Scotty Shettler, the person who gave Roxy his first chance. At the time (mid- 80's), Roxy was a hippie with no money and no clients. Scotty(Stardust manager who quit in 1991, when Lupo took over) gave him a shot. He gave Roxy some publicity in return for the data that went into the cappers library that the 'Dust is so famous for. Roxy did a good job, and the rest is history. So yes, Roxy built a good company, but not without a lot of help. Besides, I don't think they missed a beat when he left.




"Trouble with offshores is that their executives are largely anonymous (Spiro the exception) and have not been around long enough to constitute being movers and shakers in the industry."


This comment is bizarre. They ARE the industry, man. Sadly, vegas is nothing at this point. Nothing.



" The comment above about the Stardust correcting its line late to match the offshores is just plain ludicrous."


But it's not ludicrous. If you watch line movement at all, you would know that auspices comment is right on target. Certainly not 100% of the time, but much more often than not.



" LVSC has a much greater influence on the number that comes out that any line posted at an offshore."


Well, LVSC certainly has the most clients, both in Nevada and offshore. Olympic does not subscribe. CRIS does. Those are the two books off-shore that lead the way as far as putting out virgin lines(after being tweaked by a select few sharps). Sure they are influential, but this is starting to veer from your original contention regarding Lupo. LVSC is much more influential than Lupo, no doubt. Even a 'roxy-less' LVSC.


"By the way -- when it comes to "influential" people in the sports gambling business, sadly the REAL people at the top of that list would probably be Jim Fiest and and Mike Warren (et.al). They touch more lives (negatively) than anyone else. To my knowledge, Billy Walters influence and connection to the general public is negligible. It doesn't exist."


If you're talking about societal influence, then sure, the scamdicappers have more influence than Walters. However, I thought we were at a sports gambling forum, conversing with people that are interested in learning about the dynamics of sports betting and how lines, etc are affected and 'influenced'.

It's disingenius to contend that the scammers touch lives and Walters influence 'doesn't exist'. We are talking about betting here, Nolan. We are trying to understand this game and win at it. Walters influences every facet of betting, bookmaking and linesmaking to an extent that no other one person does. I think it's much more important to players trying to understand sports betting to understand Walters, and how he affects the market, rather than Mike Warren. It seems obvious to me that to ignore Walters and the incredible influence of the off-shore market is the pinnacle of naivety(to put it nicely).
 

Nolan Dalla

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KOSAR: While Lupo is among the more active and well-known sportsbook managers in Vegas (mostly because of his longevity at the Stardust), he is but a medium-sized fish in a small pond when it comes to the current sportsbetting environment. Any sort of innovative features that the Stardust offers (lottery, capping library etc.) were well in place when Lupo took over in 1991 (I believe). Just like any other manager in Vegas, he is hamstrung by corporate forces that limit any sort of imagination or initiative by the man in charge. He is far from being an influential or poweful figure in sports betting today. It's not his fault, but it's just not possible for any Vegas manager to be in that position.

NOLAN'S REPLY: I'm in general agreement that the corporate stiffs in the sportsbooks have a hard time being "influential" because of the obvious limitations on what they can do. Perhaps my perception of the Stardust is outdated, as I've always valued that establishment as the preeminent book for sports bettors in LV. I still think given their concentration in football and basketball, and willingness to put out lines before anyone else in Nevada merits consideration and a mover and shaker in the industry.


KOSAR: Do you feel that the work of LVSC has declined since Roxy retired 4 or so years ago? If so, how do you figure that, especially given your subsequesnt comments? If not, then why wouldn't Pete Korner 'get that tagline' today?

NOLAN'S REPLY: No, not at all. Pete Korner probably belongs on the list (see Top 20). In fact, in my only visit to the offices at LVSC, Korner was in charge at the time. I'm not sure Korner exerts as much influence on the LVSC in this day as Roxy did at his time (certainly debatable -- I'm not privy to inside details at LVSC), and he is certainly not as well known by the general betting public as Roxy is/was. We're splitting hairs here, as I certainly didn't mean to imply LVSC is not a big player int he industry.

KOSAR: If your point is that LVSC revolutionized linesmaking, then why wouldn't Roxy still get that 'tagline' today, even though he currently spends his days in Thailand partying, rather than running LVSC?

NOLAN REPLIES: If we are talking "influential" in terms of lifetime accomplishments, then Roxy certainly belongs. But as far as a modern day player, his retirement moves him off the list (by the way, I thought he retired to an island in the Pacific -- didn't know it was Thailand)

KOSAR: If you were to give Roxy that 'tagline', then wouldn't you have to mention Scotty Shettler, the person who gave Roxy his first chance. At the time (mid- 80's), Roxy was a hippie with no money and no clients. Scotty(Stardust manager who quit in 1991, when Lupo took over) gave him a shot. He gave Roxy some publicity in return for the data that went into the cappers library that the 'Dust is so famous for. Roxy did a good job, and the rest is history. So yes, Roxy built a good company, but not without a lot of help. Besides, I don't think they missed a beat when he left.

NOLAN REPLIES: A good contribution to the discussion. No argument here.


"Trouble with offshores is that their executives are largely anonymous (Spiro the exception) and have not been around long enough to constitute being movers and shakers in the industry."
KOSAR: This comment is bizarre. They ARE the industry, man. Sadly, vegas is nothing at this point. Nothing.

NOLAN REPLIES: My knowledge of the offshore industry is probably not as deep as it should be. For instance, up until a year ago, I still used contacts in Nevada to conduct all my business. Only in the last year have I made the transition to offshore. I stand by the comment that the offshore operators are not as "public" as the Nevada people, but that could change in coming years (maybe it already has). Perhaps the lack of regulation, juxtaposed against heavy regulations for Nevada gaming makes the Nevada people more in the public eye, but that's just a theory.

KOSAR: If you watch line movement at all, you would know that auspices comment is right on target. Certainly not 100% of the time, but much more often than not.

NOLAN REPLIES: Perhaps we should define what we mean by "influential." Again, we are splitting hair here over fine points. If you mean "influential" to imply an influence on YOU (and the MadJacks crowd), then the offshores and their personnel are much more important to us. But to the general public and lesser, recreational players, the Vegas crowd (Salinas, Banker, Lupo et al) still get most of the press. Whether this is right or wrong can be debated.


KOSAR: If you're talking about societal influence, then sure, the scamdicappers have more influence than Walters. However, I thought we were at a sports gambling forum, conversing with people that are interested in learning about the dynamics of sports betting and how lines, etc are affected and 'influenced'.

It's disingenius to contend that the scammers touch lives and Walters influence 'doesn't exist'. We are talking about betting here, Nolan. We are trying to understand this game and win at it. Walters influences every facet of betting, bookmaking and linesmaking to an extent that no other one person does. I think it's much more important to players trying to understand sports betting to understand Walters, and how he affects the market, rather than Mike Warren. It seems obvious to me that to ignore Walters and the incredible influence of the off-shore market is the pinnacle of naivety(to put it nicely).

NOLAN REPLIES: I'm not "ignoring" Walters influence. I'm as ennamered by his activities as anyone. Remember, we are talking about a column I wrote posted to the Free Picks section. It's not a Master thesis or a Doctoral dissertation. I'm sure one could argue Lupo's influence is not as high as others mentioned in this thread. Nonetheless, when I point Lupo to this webpage and MadJack sports I would like him to be pleased with what he sees and that's he's been complimented for his contributions to the industry.

-- ND
 

Neemer

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HEY ND, that should teach ya a lesson about posting some interesting information here at Jack's place! :D :D Funny how sometin' so simple, could turn into something so complicated...
 
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