Pacman Floyd fight in jeoprody

THE KOD

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I think I have a solution to Manny saying his blood taken before the fight weakens him.

While they are taking it out, have some of your own blood put back in with a IV in your dressing room.

Bad blood out, new blood in. Then go fight
 

CrazyHorses

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Alright, crazyhorses, how about this. Every time someone gets raped in your town, why don't you submit some DNA to prove you didn't do it. You know you're innocent, so just prove them wrong every time. Sound reasonable?

It would set an extremely bad precedent if Pacquaio were to submit to super commissioner Mayweathers's demands. Can you imagine if the testing was agreed to how damn hard it would be to make fights in the future.

The better commissions all have their own drug testing policies in place that the fighters follow. That is all that is necessary. And Pac is even willing to go beyond that -which he probably shouldn't do - but Mayweather's demands are off the charts unreasonable.

I'm not sure that analogy fits, but if I were getting paid 50 million to get my DNA tested every time someone got raped? No problem.
 

CrazyHorses

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Now he's suing. Laughing out loud. This screams guilty to me. Sorry, Pac just lost a fan. Not about whether or not he's doping, but suing instead of 'manning' up and proving anyone who doubts him wrong.
 

Kramden

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I'm not sure that analogy fits, but if I were getting paid 50 million to get my DNA tested every time someone got raped? No problem.


It's actually a pretty good analogy. And it's easy to say you'd do anything for the money. Some people would eat a pound of shit everyday for a year for $50M. But it's not about the money regarding the testing. It's about grossly unreasonable demands that are unprecedented in boxing.

It's just so patently wrong on numerous levels. Floyd is trying to play super commissioner and change the rules to suit him. He doesn't get to change the rules. The Neveda commission is satisfactory and Pac is willing to go beyond that - which I don't think he should do because it sets a bad precedent.

He should tell Money May to go pound sand. And once Floyd blows some dough or fails to pay prospective federal taxes he'll come a knocking on Pacquiao's door for the big payday and he will have ZERO leverage to negotiate anything. And it would serve him right if Pac told him to take a hike at that point. But, admittedly, I really want to see Pac kick his ass.:D :D :D
 
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CrazyHorses

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It's actually a pretty good analogy. And it's easy to say you'd do anything for the money. Some people would eat a pound of shit everyday for a year for $50M. But it's not about the money regarding the testing. It's about grossly unreasonable demands that are unprecedented in boxing.

It's just so patently wrong on numerous levels. Floyd is trying to play super commissioner and change the rules to suit him. He doesn't get to change the rules. The Neveda commission is satisfactory and Pac is willing to go beyond that - which I don't think he should do because it sets a bad precedent.

He should tell Money May to go pound sand. And once Floyd blows some dough or fails to pay prospective federal taxes he'll come a knocking on Pacquiao's door for the big payday and he will have ZERO leverage to negotiate anything. And it would serve him right if Pac told him to take a hike at that point. But, admittedly, I really want to see Pac kick his ass.:D :D :D


Hey, I'll eat 2 pounds of poopy for a year for 50 million. No problem, the analogy still doesn't fit. It's like saying apples are to oranges as a monkey is to a playground set.... :shrug:

Maybe it's about 'grossly unreasonable demands'. But for 50 million, I doubt it. Manny's likely on something and the rest of the bull is nothing but a smoke screen.
 

Kramden

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Hey, I'll eat 2 pounds of poopy for a year for 50 million. No problem, the analogy still doesn't fit. It's like saying apples are to oranges as a monkey is to a playground set.... :shrug:

Maybe it's about 'grossly unreasonable demands'. But for 50 million, I doubt it. Manny's likely on something and the rest of the bull is nothing but a smoke screen.

You're just presuming guilt with no basis to do so. I wouldn't want you on my jury. And because of your belief you think Pac should just let Money call the shots and take over for the commission. We clearly disagree and have a vastly different point of view. But I think my position is much stronger and would carry the support of most legal scholars as well Constitutional muster. Reasonable, clear thinking people understand what a complete phony MM is. If you don't, I can't help you from this point forward.
 

ferdville

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Supposition, a hunch, a gut feeling - none of those will fly in court. Anybody can think Manny is on something but until it is proven, you can only guess. It isn't really too difficult to figure since our entire justice system is based on the same prinicple.
 

Romi

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For what it's worth and pure speculation but this is what I believe the Pac Man is using and I also believe Hop and Mos used the EPO as well. This is from Victor Conte himself. After watching this sport for 35 yrs + I haven't seen anything like it...Hop, Mos, and Pac. As fighters age, they slow down and need to conserve energy and typically are just capable of fighting in spurts. Hop and Mos were clearly showing those characteristics over the course of several yrs and lo and behold they find the fountain of youth. Again, this doesn't prove guilt on anyones part but it sure does provide a logical and believable explanation.


Say what you want about him, but Victor Conte - the man who chemically masterminded the success of various world-class athletes while running BALCO- has a unique perspective on this debate surrounding the ?Olympic-style? drug testing that the camp of Floyd Mayweather is insisting on prior to them facing Manny Pacquiao. Pacquiao and his camp, are balking at the insistence of drawing blood and the number of times they would be subjected to do so.

Conte believes that blood testing is vital in this instance. But not for the reason everyone thinks.

He emailed Maxboxing,:?In my opinion, blood testing for the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight is more important for detecting possible blood doping or use of EPO than it is for human growth hormone. Measuring hematocrit levels (percentage of red blood cells to total whole blood volume) is very important. For example, even without a positive urine test for EPO, cyclists are temporarily suspended for two weeks if their hematocrit is greater than 50%. An elevated hematocrit can provide a significant advantage to a fighter by enhancing oxygen uptake and utilization. This would benefit a fighter in training and especially during the later rounds of a fight."


Some observers have been suspicious of Pacquiao?s recent dominance as he has moved up in weight. ?the Pac Man?, who won his first world title as a flyweight( 112-pounds), has knocked out the trio of Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton and, most recently, Miguel Cotto, in succession. Leading some to believe that he is ?juicing?- meaning he is on a form of steroids or HGH( human growth hormone). But Conte believes that a blood test must be adminstered for the reason stated up above in his email.

"One, I think that increasing hematocrit levels, whether it?s by traditional blood-doping or the use of EPO, is of greater benefit to a boxer than the use of growth-hormone," he explained."So growth-hormone is more of an anti-catobolic agent that may help to accelerate the healing of the tissue repair process. But growth-hormone is not anabolic as an anabolic steroid. It?s an anti-catabolic agent and I believe that you don?t get a very big bang for your buck. I?m not a huge fan of growth-hormone. I don?t think it?s tremendously beneficial performance enhancing substance.

"EPO, though, in terms of boxing, is absolutely huge, both in training and as well as in a fight, especially during the later rounds."

Conte does have experience in boxing, having worked with Andre Ward and Eddie Chambers, recently, and back in 2003, during the heyday of BALCO, assisted with Shane Mosley in his usage of illegal P.E.D?s in his rematch with Oscar De La Hoya. When asked if Mosley was on EPO for that fight, Conte answered,"Yes, he was."

Another factor that is essential is that the tests need to be random in nature.

"Otherwise," he explains,"it?s what they call ?announced testing? and I?ve historically called that ?I.Q. testing?. So to apply that to other sports, it would be like showing up to training camp for Major League Baseball and they test you. That?s announced testing. You have to be pretty dumb to show up at training camp or at ?announced testing? and test positive. The clearance time of most of these drugs that are out there are well known."

He also says that for these substances to be utilized at their maximum efficiency, they must be properly cycled and be out of your system by the time competition begins.

"Creams, transdurmals, clear the fastest. Orals, would be next. Water-based drugs- including testosterone- would be next, then the oil-based. So some of these can clear in a matter of hours and days," explained Conte."So if you know when you?re going to be tested a week out, you go off the use of oral testosterone, for example, you?re going to test negative. So that is really an issue."

Accoring to him,"Traditional testing in boxing, it?s basically worthless other than the detection of some types of stimulant, before and after a fight."

The Mayweather camp and Golden Boy Promotions, has insisted- against Bob Arum?s wishes- on employing USADA( the United States Anti-Doping Agency) and their methods to monitor both boxers leading into the fight( which is now in serious jeopardy). But USADA?s testing is hardly foolproof, as two of Conte?s most famous clients, Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery, avoided detection for years from this organization.

"There?s lots of loopholes. They call that the ?gold standard testing?. I?ve said this as far back as 2004, that there are huge loopholes that you can drive an equivelant of a Mack Truck through. the USADA testing is certainly better than what is used in professional sports but it?s still relatively easy to beat the test," states Conte, who was also noted for working with baseball slugger Barry Bonds, during his assault on the record book." Now, I don?t know in the case of this fight, but the reason is because you?re allowed two missed tests and they can?t come back the next day because you have to be allowed a hearing to provide your reasonable explanation or the ?exceptional circumstance? as they call it. So they?ll just come back the next day and of course none of this is transparent. It?s like being up to hit in baseball where you get two strikes and then you smack it out of the park and hit a home run. So it?s still relatively easy to beat USADA testing and in this particular case, I do believe you need to have random, unannounced testing. To just say,?I?ll be tested on this date?, there?s all sorts of things you can do with announced testing, you can?t do with unannounced testing."
 

Andrey

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If it is true, then it is very bad news for experienced bettors. How in the world, you know who will use this EPO and who will not?
Hopkins beating Pavlik was total shocker.
Mosley beating Margo not that shocker but still very surprising.
Chambers overpowering much bigger Dimitrienko was surprise as well.
Ward, the way he overpowered Kessler was just unbelievable.
I don't remember a year with that much surprising results as well Romi. Surprising not in a good way for me as a bettor. Boxing is becoming much less predictable as it use to be.
For what it's worth and pure speculation but this is what I believe the Pac Man is using and I also believe Hop and Mos used the EPO as well. This is from Victor Conte himself. After watching this sport for 35 yrs + I haven't seen anything like it...Hop, Mos, and Pac. As fighters age, they slow down and need to conserve energy and typically are just capable of fighting in spurts. Hop and Mos were clearly showing those characteristics over the course of several yrs and lo and behold they find the fountain of youth. Again, this doesn't prove guilt on anyones part but it sure does provide a logical and believable explanation.


]
 
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THE KOD

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anytime you have a fighter trying to get a advantage without us knowing about it, it makes it harder to pick the winner.

Its been too long in boxing not to have complete testing. Its just like baseball, they were all doing it. Too much money to stop.

I will now have to rethink the plays I make on this fight.
 

THE KOD

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Mayweather moves, but fight no closerComment

ESPN.com

There was movement by the Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao camps Saturday in the battle over how to handle drug testing for their tentative March 13 super fight, but the sides remain at a stalemate in an increasingly nasty negotiation that threatens a fight many predict would be the highest-grossing bout in history.

With all of the other points agreed to for the blockbuster HBO PPV welterweight title bout at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, the drug testing protocol is the final sticking point.

Mayweather -- whose father, Floyd Mayweather Sr., has accused Pacquiao of using performance-enhancing substances without any proof -- had been demanding the inflexible Olympic-style testing conducted by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. That would mean Mayweather and Pacquiao would be subject to random blood and urine tests all the way up to the fight and immediately following it.

Pacquiao objected, in part, because he and his team want assurances that testing would be cut off at a predetermined time before the fight.

Mayweather changed his stance Saturday, moving off the hard line he had taken on using USADA as the testing agency.

"We are OK to move off USADA," Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer, who is representing Mayweather, told ESPN.com. "What we're saying, and what is important to us, is four things -- that the tests be random, that they include blood and urine and the time frame, meaning when do you stop the tests before the fight but know they will still be effective. Three of them we have agreed on -- random, blood and urine. So now it is a matter of the two sides working out the specifics of the cutoff date to assure it will still be effective."

Schaefer said those talks are taking place between Bruce Binkow, a high-level Golden Boy executive, and Todd duBoef, the president of Top Rank, Pacquiao's promoter.

"Todd and Bruce are trying to work out the specifics of the cutoff to assure the tests are still effective because we know that 30 days before is not effective," Schaefer said. "At 30 days, we might as well not even do it. We want to figure it out [the cutoff window] and I will give my recommendation to Team Mayweather, and they will be on board. USADA is the most recognized one, but if it's another one, like the Nevada commission, we don't really care. I don't care who performs the tests as long as they are performed. That's our position. If this fight doesn't happen it's not because of Team Mayweather."

Pacquiao agreed to unlimited urine testing and at least three blood tests, one in early January around the time of the kickoff news conference, one 30 days before the fight and another in the dressing room after the fight. When Mayweather was insisting on USADA, Top Rank chief Bob Arum said Pacquiao was willing to revisit the number of tests as long as they used some other agency, one with which they could negotiate the protocol and assure Pacquiao that he would at least not be tested in the middle of the night or in the few days leading up to the bout.

On Friday, Arum said their side was willing to sit down with Golden Boy and the Nevada State Athletic Commission to work out the details of the testing. Nevada only requires a prefight and a postfight urine test, although it could also test blood if the sides asked.

But on Saturday, Arum, speaking from his vacation in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, backtracked, saying even the three tests were out the window -- unless Nevada asked for them, which Arum knows is unlikely.

"Our position is that since the fight would be in Nevada, let [the Mayweather side] make any petition it wants to the commission," Arum said. "We wash our hands of it. If the commission wants to take blood, fine. We don't care. But we're not going to pander to this petty bull---- about how many days before the fight they can test and so forth. Who are they [Golden Boy] to tell Manny what he's supposed to do? How many times did [Golden Boy boss] Oscar De La Hoya ever give blood before a fight? I will not let this kid get pushed around.

"If they go to the commission and they ask for blood tests and the commission says yes, we will do whatever the commission says. The commission says blood testing, we'll do blood testing. We're not going to help it or oppose it. We're not going to give any credence to this nonsense. They want to sign a contract under the rules of the commission, fine. We don't want the fight if it means Manny is going to be pushed around. Let the commission tell us how many days in front they want blood. Let the commission pick a date to stop taking blood. We trust the commission. Blood testing we think is unnecessary, but fine, we'll do it. But let the commission set the parameters. Let Golden Boy approach the commission and say we want to take blood when he's walking into the ring. Whatever the commission wants to do we will support, but we won't take part in this exercise in nonsense, a procedure which is contrary to how boxing has been conducted in Nevada for 40 years. The burden is not on us to tell the commission what to do."

Arum's appeal for the commission to handle matters may be hollow because although it has protocols in place for random urine testing during training camps, it doesn't for blood testing, and to put it in place in time for a March 13 fight is unlikely, according to Keith Kizer, the executive director of the Nevada commission.

"We're very confident that urine tests by themselves cover everything that needs to be covered, but if the camps want to do additional testing through a third party they are welcome to, as long as they also adhere to commission rules," Kizer told ESPN.com. "Urine testing we could run with today. We could test their urine every day from now until March 13. But blood testing is trickier because we don't require it. If the commission wanted to change the rule it would have to be at a public meeting and, at the earliest, that would be early to mid-January. We have done some urine testing during training camps. We have those protocols in place. Blood testing is a different story.

"We'd have to put it on a commission agenda. Golden Boy or Top Rank or both could ask for blood testing and we'd look into it. Whether it would go anywhere, that's up to the commission to decide. As of now, there are no plans for a special commission meeting, nor has one been requested from either side."

The promoters and HBO hoped to have the fight signed and formally announced at a news conference the first week of January. If they can't iron out the particulars on blood testing until a commission meeting, likely around Jan. 13, it would make finalizing the bout unlikely until at least then.

Schaefer believes that Arum's position of leaving it up to the commission is him "moving the goal post."

"The pressure is on Pacquiao," he said. "They keep moving the goal post like they did with the $10 million weight penalty [if either fighter is over the contract maximum 147 pounds], which we agreed to. They didn't think we would accept that. When we did, they had to find something else to make into a problem. So now they're saying it's up to the commission instead of wanting to negotiate the drug testing with us. I don't want to hear that if the fight breaks up it was because of us. When they came to us with a $10 million weight penalty, they didn't expect us to say yes. They thought we'd say no. So when we said yes, they had to come up with something else. Now we're off USADA, and they are going to come and say only urine testing if that's what the commission says. It's really frustrating.

"We are making compromises. It's a two-way street. If they back off again, I will shut off my phone and spend the rest of the Christmas and New Year's time with my family, and good luck to all of these fools."

While Arum is making plans for an alternative fight for Pacquiao against former junior welterweight titlist Paulie Malignaggi -- who has also accused Pacquiao of using PEDs -- if the Mayweather fight falls apart, Schaefer said he hasn't discussed an alternative with Mayweather.

"We haven't discussed anybody else because the fight we want to bring to the fight fans is the one with Pacquiao," he said. "The focus is on getting Mayweather-Pacquiao done while Bob is making calls everywhere on the Malignaggi fight. That shows his focus is not on Mayweather.

"How ridiculous is that that Pacquiao would go and fight the guy who makes accusations that he uses performance-enhancing drugs instead of Mayweather [Jr.], who didn't make those accusations? Something is not right. I don't know how to explain it other than maybe Pacquiao doesn't want the Mayweather fight."
............................................................

this chit is going to alter what I have to do to win this fight.

the rat bastids
 

Romi

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The latest in the soap opera is that Tim Bradley will get the nod v Pac should Floyd reject the fight. Now this is a FIGHT I want to see. Apparently HBO isn't interested in Pac/Mags...is anybody??? I honestly think Floyd/Pac is still going to happen. There is just too much at stake for either guy to turn it down and I believe the fight will be finalized soon. However, Bradley certainly makes an intriguing concilation fight should the big one fall through. I think he's still a shade green for the likes of Pac but with his speed and boxing ability, this could be interesting. Pac would open -250 -300 IMO and with his recent destruction of ODL, Hatton, and Cotto I'd certainly favor him to win. Brad would give it all he has but I think Pac would most likely wear him down in a competetive one and probably get him out of there around the 10th. This is a WIN/WIN scenario...we either get Pac/Floyd on Mar 13 or Pac/Bradley:00hour
 

Romi

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disregard the above...now it looks like Floyd rejected the offer and Mags/Pac is supposededly gonna be the fight. I think Arum is just being a shrewd bastard and the fight will come off
 

punchmaster

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disregard the above...now it looks like Floyd rejected the offer and Mags/Pac is supposededly gonna be the fight. I think Arum is just being a shrewd bastard and the fight will come off

Nothing to do with Arum being shrewd, he's just not going to let Mayweather and his clan dictate and become the new drug testing commission and push around his fighter before the fight even starts. Mayweather knows Paq is a phenom he's never been in the ring with so he's throwin up the smoke screens. Mayweather has been least risk, most money, fights for show while screwing the public for so long, now that there's a legit threat to taking away his 0, time to change the rules and get out of the fight. If Mosley shows his age this month, Floyd will take the winner of that fight, but not a two-fisted southpaw phenom that can crack with both hands and has stamina for 15 rounds.
 

gardenweasel

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to be fair,pacquaio hasn`t faced anybody that hasn`t shown serious give in the upper weight classes either(dlh/ricky/cotto).......
 

gardenweasel

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Supposition, a hunch, a gut feeling - none of those will fly in court. Anybody can think Manny is on something but until it is proven, you can only guess. .

and the only way to prove it is to do the appropriate testing...

no testing...no proof...and as long as you have people who don`t care if athletes are dirty(fans and the powers that be that have so much to lose)it goes on...

well played,manny...
 
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