Phoenix Open

Ian

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Time to put last weeks nightmare behind me

Early match bet
Allenby over Stricker -111 Firststake

The key to this week will be tee to green play and if you saw some of Strickers play in Aus it was only his putter that saved him
Allenby didn't play brilliantly in Hawaii over the last few weeks but never has done, whereas he was 2nd here last year and used it as a springboard to go on to further success
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Thought Rocco would be real sleeper this week but they pegged him.Look at odds in group wagers and vs Parny in singles.
50/1 in outright but not forking over the win bet for opportunity for place with Tiger in there.
Oly has on occasion place bets only,are there any Euro books that take place only?
 

Ian

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They will all be wise to Mediate this week 1st and 2nd in such an event does not normally go unnoticed
Place only betting does exist with a few firms but they do not offer it on every event, Multisports who FS took over did offer it at 1/5 the odds 1st 5 whether they will make such an offer is debatable
Mediate is 66-1 with Hills but I think a few more might just offer that and preferably one who offers 1st 5 places (certainly made a difference last week)

Anders
Your NZ Tab has been generous in offering 2-1 Tiger compared to other prices and if you do fancy him this week then I would take that price he certainly will not be any bigger
 

Anders

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Cheers Ian - just had a wee dabble. That's decided who I'm going to take in the first matchup of the golf comp too
smile.gif

Really looking forward to that comp - my long game is AWOL, my irons as accurate as a Dade County vote counter and I putt like a cross-eyed drunk - but picking 'em's another matter
biggrin.gif

Also looking 4wd to the info from you and Stanley on the Canon Challenge.
ATB


------------------
These letters are not the work of a wise man, but only a player and a scribe with a dangerous gambling habit - HST
 

Stanley

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Preview & plays:

The Tour finally heads for the mainland and does so in style. Eight of the world's top-10 are competing in the Phoenix Open - just the European duo of Westwood and Monty stay away - and the course is one of the best, and hardest, on Tour. Seven of the thirteen champions since Scottsdale first hosted this event in 1987 have won Major championships and of the rest, Parnevik and Mickelson have gone very close. The Tour has reached full throttle this week.

The event is especially well-remembered for the 1999 staging. It was this year that a half-ton boulder was deemed a 'loose impediment' when nine members of the gallery moved it and it was this year that a man was caught with a gun in Tiger Woods' gallery. After skipping last year's event, Tiger is back and in need of a victory; he hasn't won on the PGA Tour since the Canadian Open four months ago. It must seem like four years for Els since he converted being into contention into a Tour win; he has only had two wins in the last 24 months, but in that time he has finished 2nd eight times and 3rd seven times.

The TPC of Scottsdale is a par-71 course, measuring just over 7,000 yards. It is a links-style course in the middle of the desert, which causes it to play much less than the recorded yardage. With the scrub off the fairway and water on the closing holes, there will be premium on accuracy rather than length off the tee, but given this field and the history of the event, it is very unlikely that there will be a surprise winner. Maybe even Mr. Woods, but at odds of 2/1 is not backable.

The three outright picks are David Duval, Ernie Els and Justin Leonard. Duval's record on this course is not particularly impressive with a record of 14th, 27th, 18th and 30th in the last four years, but Duval is still upbeat about this course: "I like playing here, and I'm surprised I haven't contended a little more seriously than I have". But when three of those years have been dogged by poor final rounds - 78, 73 and 74 - and when last year he had trouble with some of the spectators during his final round, maybe it isn't all bad. He has game has looked in decent shape since his comeback last October and on his favored Bermuda greens this week, he should be in contention throughout.

The next two are purely place bets given their inability to win events! Els' last five events have yielded no wins but five top-four finishes and with a record of 48% top-5 finishes in the last three years, he can surely at least contend again. The problem appears to be more mental than with his game and as long as he doesn't get frustrated, he will win those place bets. Has not played the course in recent years as he has focused more on competing in South Africa and Australia at this time of the year so it is not that he does not like the course as the setup is perfect for his game.

Justin Leonard won the TPC at Sawgrass in 1998 and then had six 2nd-place finishes before his next win, last year's Texas Open. He has similarly finished 2nd twice in his last five visits to Scottsdale, including losing a playoff to Phil Mickelson and 40,000 of his supporters. With accuracy and a preference for Bermuda greens, Leonard looks a good shot for another 2nd place!

Outright plays:

David Duval to win e/w 12/1 @ First Stake
Ernie Els to be placed [top-4] 5/2 @ Olympic or Centrebet
Justin Leonard to be placed [top-4] 10/1 @ Centrebet


Can't see there being a long-shot winner with such a high quality field, but agree with your Leonard selection Ian and wish First Stake/Multisports did bring back place betting. Can be very useful for certain players
wink.gif


[This message has been edited by Stanley (edited 01-25-2001).]
 

Ian

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Not so sure about not backing long price runners here I know the field is stronger than most years but if you look at the prices of the placed players over the last 3 years I wouldn't write them off
2000
Lehman 28-1
Mediate 66-1
Allenby 100-1
Jobe 125-1
Triplett 125-1
Sutton 28-1
1999
Mediate 100-1
Leonard 25-1
Woods 7-1
Sutton 66-1
Glasson 66-1
1998
Parnevik 33-1
Armour III 150-1
Pate 200-1
Geiberger 125-1
Watson 66-1

Mediate has finished 1st and 2nd here in the last 2 years and played well in the Mercedes
the 80-1 is a huge price
 

ag

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Stan, bit of advice please. i play the spreads and i noted your ratings last week in relation to the 7 man and 10 man index's.

apart from spreadex who included Lehman you had the first 3 on all other lists.

question - do you keep a record of how well your ratings do???

Not so good l/w on matches as the biggest diff on ratings was lehman/parnevik.

what i did, correct me if you think it isnt right, was to add up the position of comaptibility, course and cuurent, divide by 3 to get the average rating and then sort them best to last.

the beauty of spread betting is you get the chance to oppose and i am considering using your ratings to oppose those you have well down the lists on all 3 components.

any comments/advice would be appreciated
 

Stanley

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ag, I think how you composite my stats is very fair. I wouldn't expect there to be much difference between your approach and the rankings that I ultimately achieve. I would also say that the long-run form table should be of interest though as it provides a three-year average finishing position with a maximum of 50th (as with spread betting) and it shows the % of those finishes have been missed cuts, which are definitely worth considering for spread bets.

With regard to how well my ratings fare, I am the first to acknowledge that my 72-hole matchups - for which I use the ratings to identify ones with looking at - have been abysmal so far this season. I remember the Tour coming to the mainland last year and being down for the year, but not as much as this
frown.gif


Hopefully things will settle down as we have more observations to calculate current form with and so on. If you click on 'Tournaments' in the PGA Tour home page, this will bring up a list of PGA Tour events covered so far and links to archived picks pages - as posted here so they can be verified - and this year I have also archived the ratings pages. If you click on 'ratings' for any particular tournament, I have added the finishing position of each player next to their Tour-Tips rating. This should provide some evidence of how good (hopefully soon!) the ratings were.

The ratings so far this season have the following correlation coefficients with finishing position:

Mercedes: -0.20
Tucson: -0.28
Sony: -.30

Note they should be negative - the higher the rating, the lower the expected finishing position.

These are disappointing in that they were typically in the -0.40 to -0.50 range last year. Presumably, once the early season volatility has worked itself out of the system, the ratings will reach that score again
smile.gif


BTW having checked the links myself I see that it opens up last year's tournament schedule and not this one. That has now been rectified.

As for the Parnevik/Lehman difference, yeah that sucked
rolleyes.gif
but these are simply statistically generated statistics and so cannot take into account factors such as Parnevik's falling out & sacking of his caddie
mad.gif
They should still be a good first guide though.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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72 hole matches @ 5Dimes all -115
Janzen over Chalmers
Weir over Garcia
Toms over Calc

No outrights but may have place wager when Oly releases lines.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Yep Ian He does have great form for this course a win plus 4 top 7 since 1992 but followed win with cut and had another cut thrown in.His go for for broke attitude can be great assett or a killer.
On all 72 holes I try to look for geatest chance to win at cut and he happened to be qualifier for me in this case which does not always pan out.
However he made 71% of cuts last year vs 85% for Toms.If both make cut he hits top 10 46% of time compared to 60% for Toms.Thought it was worth shot taking these stats into consideration.However agree with you his course form is great.
Another beside Mediate with great form and the harder the course the better I like him is Leonard. Really liked his shot this week however will probably avoid till after the cut.Got very bad draw having to play in group ahead of Tiger for 1st 2 days.As noted by Stan and the boulder incident (a disgrace for player to allow it)these fans here are raucious and will be go against players in, before and after his group when odds permit.

[This message has been edited by DOGS THAT BARK (edited 01-24-2001).]
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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adding 72 holes @ 1st Stake
Toms-115 over Chalmers (ties lose)@#$%^&*
-------------------------------------------
Make that -111

[This message has been edited by DOGS THAT BARK (edited 01-24-2001).]
 

Ian

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You've taken the plunge
wink.gif

I can only think of one of my matchbets in the last 30 that finished in a tie
Glad I got in early on the outright plays
Leonard cut to 40's
Mediate cut at Ladbrokes and now suspended
Jobe halved in price to 100 at VC
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Ian Have to agree I went overboard on ties in 72 holers but Stan can relate to binge I went on last year in ties on 18 holers. It was so bad they dubbed me "dogs that halve"
Pushed 11 matches from 1-30 to 3-12 for real.
 

ag

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your comments about not doing well with matches has struck a chord. i read in a spread betting book that the most volatile form of golf betting when opposing was MB.

i couldnt understand this as you only need to rate the merits of 2 players, whereas in index's, 7 or 10 and in finishing posn. the whole field.

i now understand where it is coming from. by opposing a player in a 7 man field you have 6 players playing for u. only 3 need to beat your player that you oppose. so even if he has a week beyond your expectancy there is still the chance that 2/3 of the others who were originally expected to beat him will still do so.

in FP if you rate the player at say 30th or worse and you can take him on at say 25 you really do have a lot of players playing for you.

however in MB betting, you can oppose player 1 and player 2 plays just as bad. there is no escape clause with other players the way there is in the other two bet types.

anyway, on to Phoenix, as the resident spread betting guy from the UK here, i am going to post weekly tips on US tournaments. all players picked will be, not to do well, but to oppose. something you can only do in fixed odds by backing in Match bets.

Not in spread betting. you can back or oppose in any way you like

as per Stanley, i am utilising his tour-tips.com ratings to their full effect and incorporating a few idea of my own. that way i should be able to give min: 65% success rates in index betting,

that may seem an outrageous claim but remember only 3 players score out of 7 or in 10 man index's 4. so the success rate even by sticking a pin into a page of names is still 57% and 60% respectively.

the secret is to avoid your opposed player finishing 1st or 2nd.

In FP bets i will advise when a player based on all the info available should over a large selection of bets finish outside the price quoted. therefore in the long run the value is on my side. some bets will go astray but over the season i should come out on top with something to spare.


if anyone wants to know why oppose and not back players. reasons are in spread betting prices are pitched a little lop sided to attract the majority of punters who wish to back a player. also in Finish positions if your player ties 10th with 5 others his Spread FP is 12.5 not 10th as it is the midpoint of all the actual positions that these 6 players would have taken up if scoring differently. ie. 10+11+12+13+14+15 = 75/6 so it does favour the buyer rather than the seller.

anyway, thats my plans, i will come back with spread tips tonight, 2 hours approx and we will see how they do.

anyone wishing any furher info/ideas about this type of betting please ask any questions. i will try to advise best i can
 
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