Quiz on Israeli Democracy

Chanman

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Posted on APRIL-22-2002

Is it Israeli Democracy or "Jewish Democracy", you be the judge. Are you aware that:

Prior to the 1948 war, Palestinian Christians and Muslims were a two-third majority, who owned and operated 93% of Palestine's lands?

Prior to the 1948 war, most Israeli Jews were persecuted and dispossessed European Jews who made a one-third minority?

For Israel to become a "Jewish majority" it opted to expel and dispossess the two-third Palestinian majority?

80% of the Palestinian people were dispossessed from their homes, farms, and businesses for the past 54 years?

95% of Israel's lands (which is mostly owned by Palestinian refugees) are open for development to Jews only?

Israeli-Palestinian citizens live almost in segregated communities (or ghettos) because development is strictly limited outside their villages? Ironically, the word "ghetto" was invented to describe the living conditions of Eastern European Jews in Tsarist Russia!

For just being "Jewish" you gain an automatic citizenship in Israel? Plus tens of thousands of dollars in subsidies too.

Palestinian Muslims or Christians refugees, who were born in the country and later expelled, cannot gain Israeli citizenship? Of course, unless they convert to Judaism first!

Pretending to be Jewish in Israel is punishable by law with up to one year imprisonment? On the other hand, if you pretend to be a Muslim or Christian the law does you no harm!

When the Palestine problem was created by Britain in 1917, more than 92% of the population of Palestine were Arabs and that there were at that time no more than 56,000 Jews in Palestine? That Muslim, Christian, and Jewish Palestinians at that time lived in peace with each other?

Palestinians in the early 20th century owned 97.5% of the land, while Jews (native Palestinians and recent immigrants together) owned only 2.5% of the land?

Close to 4 million Palestinian Muslims and Christians are being subjected to Israeli laws that are different than the laws governing the 4.5 million Israeli Jews? Is this a "democratically" elected apartheid, or not, that is the question?

In the occupied West Bank there are "Jewish Roads" and "Non-Jewish Roads"?

Israel issues national identify cards where the religion of the card holder is clearly bolded?

Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza drive vehicles with license plates that have different coloring than the cars driven by Israeli settlers?

Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza hold ID cards that are of different colors than the cards held by Israeli settlers?

The only form of Judaism recognized by the "Jewish state" is Orthodox Judaism, so most US Jews could not get married in Israel. Furthermore, the only conversion to Judaism recognized is Orthodox, so most US converts aren't Jewish enough.

Just prior to the 1948 war, Jews owned under 7% of Palestine's land, and to increase their share after the war, they passed the "Absentees' Law" which dispossessed the Palestinian majority land owners who later became "absent". What is even more tragic was the passage of an oxymoron law, called "Present Absentees' Law," which dispossessed the Palestinian-Israeli citizens who became internal refugees in Israel. It is worth noting that the internal Jewish refugees were not dispossessed as a result of this racist law.

The U.S. funneled into the Israeli economy over 130 billion dollars, which is almost twice the amount devoted to rebuilding Western Europe after WW II!

Israeli democracy is a facade to "Jewish Democracy?"

Israel has nuclear weapons, and it was close to dropping one on Cairo in 1973?

Israeli soldiers use human shields in battle to minimize their casualties?

Israel killed over 20,000 Lebanese and Muslims (90% of whom are civilians) with American made and paid for weapons?

Ariel Sharon is under indictment in Belgium for war crimes against Palestinian civilians?
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djv

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Remember it's the promised land. That and the land just layed there nothing being done to it. At least that's how the story goes. Forsure WWII helped cause the problem.
 

Chanman

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gw- I received this in an E-mail. I post it here for info. Not sure of the slant as it was originally sent to work- where I have the date/name of publication. I put this up to share figuring if it is BS it will be exposed. The more we know the better our decisions.
 

HighRoller

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my question is do the jews strap bombs to themselves and walk into public areas and blow themselves up along with innocent civilians ???

i am all for expelling all arabs from israel and giving them a peice of land to do as they please...

the jews have suffered long enough and the hatred in the world towards them is truly disgusting...

there are maybe 30 million jews worldwide...compare that to the population of the USA...

but...the sad part of all hatred is this :

NO ONE SHOULD BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BASED ON THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS...RELIGION MAKES YOU NO BETTER OR WORSE THAN THE NEXT HUMAN BEING.

:eek:
 

THE KOD

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HighRoller said:
i am all for expelling all arabs from israel and giving them a peice of land to do as they please...
......................................................................................

HR

You can't expell people from land that they already own.
Thats the whole problem. And it goes back thousands of years.

The killing on both sides is senseless and must stop somehow.

If I am not mistaken the bombers only bomb in occupied areas
that they feel was stolen from them. Through terrorism they
fight to take back the land. Its the only thing they know.

This becomes a way of life. And the kids on both sides are raised with this killing all around them. Bombs and tanks and checkpoints. Where will this all end ?

What a mess.

KOD
 

HighRoller

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Scott-Atlanta said:
......................................................................................

If I am not mistaken the bombers only bomb in occupied areas
that they feel was stolen from them.
KOD

KOD...Nope incorrect...They bomb shopping malls, hotels, buses and areas uncommon to them. ...NO LIE.

read on...
 
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hellah10

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HR-

you realize the isrealies have tanks and jets...and the best pilots in the world i might add.....compared to suicide bombers...1 guy with tnt...funny how ppl leave out the arsenal of the isreali army
 

hellah10

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HighRoller said:
KOD...Nope incorrect...They bomb shopping malls, hotels, buses and areas uncommon to them. Senseless animals (hamas) believe that if they kill themself their families get $22 and they will be surrounded by 60+ whores in heaven...NO LIE.

as a muslim...i dont recall getting 22 dollars and 60+ whores when i die....hmmm funny what mass media will do to ppl's thinking
 

HighRoller

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Mar. 30, 2004 19:57 | Updated Mar. 30, 2004 21:53
Terrorists try to recruit child as suicide bomber
By ASSOCIATED PRESS


Palestinian terrorists tried to recruit a 15-year-old as a suicide bomber, at one point locking him in a dark room, but also luring him with clothes, a cell phone and promises of paradise, his family said Tuesday.

The story of ninth-grader Tamer Khweirah, who was extricated by an alert older brother, underscored the growing use of children by terrorists and stoked Palestinian debate over what is permissible in the fight with Israel.

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Tamer is one of four teens arrested by the Israeli military in the West Bank city of Nablus in the past week on suspicion they were recruited by terrorists. One of the four, Hussam Abdo, 16, was caught at an Israeli checkpoint south of Nablus last week with eight kilograms (18 pounds) of explosives strapped to his body.

The boys knew each other, relatives said. Tamer, Hussam and a third youngster attended the same Nablus high school.

The Israeli military said Palestinian militants are increasingly targeting youngsters, in part because they arouse less suspicion at Israeli checkpoints.

The use of youngsters has drawn criticism also from some Palestinian intellectuals and educators, who said the militants are harming the Palestinian cause.

The Al-Ayyam daily, which often reflects the views of the Palestinian Authority, on Tuesday ran a story on Tamer, including his parents' demand that the recruiters be prosecuted. The article was a rare sign of public criticism of the terrorists.

However, Palestinian security officials said their forces have become so ineffective, largely due to Israeli restrictions, that they cannot rein in the terrorists.

Tamer was approached by the Islamic Jihad at a Nablus mosque last week, after Israel assassinated Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin, said the boy's oldest brother, Raed, 26, to whom Tamer confessed his subsequent secret encounters.

In the mosque, Tamer and other worshippers were expressing their anger over the assassination, and a 19-year-old Islamic Jihad terrorist asked the youth whether he wanted to meet a religious leader, or sheik, from the group, Raed Khweirah said.

Tamer was taken to a private home in Nablus' old city, a militant stronghold, where he met the sheik, who introduced himself only as Ibrahim, Khweirah said. In the first session, the sheik spoke to Tamer about the need to avenge Yassin.

In a second encounter last week, the sheik tried to persuade Tamer to carry out a suicide bombing, according to the boy's older brother. The sheik locked Tamer in a dark room for a while, then took him to a well-lit room, explaining to the boy that this illustrated the difference between eternal damnation and paradise.

Paradise and 72 virgins are assured for any bomber, the sheik told Tamer, who is from a well-to-do family and according to his family had a sheltered upbringing.

When the youngster expressed concern that his family's house would be demolished - standard Israeli reprisal - the sheik said Islamic Jihad would pay 50,000 Jordanian dinar (US$ 35,000) to make up for the loss.


When the boy protested that he'd like to be around for the weddings of his two sisters in the summer, the sheik told him that "you will go to paradise and meet them there," according to the older brother.

Islamic Jihad terrorists gave Tamer a cell phone to enable constant contact, and bought him a new shirt and pants as a purported sign of affection, his brother said.

Khweirah said he became concerned about his younger brother, described as a model student, when he skipped school twice last week and was seen loitering downtown, smoking and talking on a cellphone.

Khweirah said that last Thursday, he turned for help to the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a terrorist group with ties to Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement.

Al Aqsa itself has carried out suicide bombings, and its terrorists say they have no qualms about recruiting teens, provided they are mature enough to understand their suicidal mission. Still, Khweirah hoped they would agree that his brother was not an appropriate candidate.

Later that day, a tearful Tamer returned home and confessed to his family, his brother said.

Hashem Abu Hamdan, an Al Aqsa leader in Nablus wanted by Israel, said he was personally involved in getting Tamer back home safely but gave no further details.

Abu Hamdan denied Al Aqsa dispatched Hussam Abdo, last week's would-be roadblock bomber, saying Hussam and his friends had taken the initiative. "They were looking for an explosives belt, and they could find it easily in Nablus," Abu Hamdan said in a telephone interview.

But the Israeli military said the terrorists are increasingly preying on the young.

"We've seen the accelerated efforts of this consortium of terror from Nablus to dispatch young children and turn them into human bombs," said Maj. Sharon Feingold, an army spokeswoman.

Tamer was arrested by Israeli soldiers at his home on Friday, the last of a group of four teens to be taken into custody. Feingold said the youngsters are still being questioned by the Shin Bet security service, which turned down requests by The Associated Press to interview Tamer.

The boy's family demanded that the Islamic Jihad recruiters be arrested, but so far to no avail. Talal Dweikat, the Palestinian intelligence chief in Nablus, said his forces are too weak to confront the terrorists.

Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi said it is unfair to generalize, arguing that there had been only isolated attempts to recruit youngsters. She said Palestinian society, which has supported suicide bombings to a large degree, would have to do some soul-searching, but that the causes of despair - Israel's occupation and military strikes - must not be overlooked.

"It's horrifying, because we are paying the price as a nation," she said.


TRUTH
 

HighRoller

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hellah10 said:
as a muslim...i dont recall getting 22 dollars and 60+ whores when i die....hmmm funny what mass media will do to ppl's thinking


hellah i quoted incorrectly...and I dont think you strapped a bomb to yourself and blew yourself up along with innocent people...

please lets not make this personal.;)
 

hellah10

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:lol: your gonna believe an artticle telling you about 72 virgins when ive been practicing the religion my whole life....well goddd damnnnnn why dont i blow myself up then...:lol:
 

HighRoller

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hellah10 said:
:lol: your gonna believe an artticle telling you about 72 virgins when ive been practicing the religion my whole life....well goddd damnnnnn why dont i blow myself up then...:lol:

hellah so be it....do you practice under HAMAS ? If not then how would you know...This has been reported by HAMAS members.
 

hellah10

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BobbyBlueChip said:
Hellah,

If you don't mind, I think it would be much more entertaining to hear Highroller and KOD solve the Mideast problem without outside influence

no problem ;)
 

Nolan Dalla

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I tried to stay out of this thread, but can't. Here are a few thoughts.

1. The real problem we have in this country, largely because of the media and the government, is that we get an extremely narrow view of the Palestinian issue, and Palestinian society as w whole. The only time anyone in this country ever gives a shit about what's going on in that region of the world is when a Palestinian commits an act of terrorism. Without those acts of terrorism, the Palestinian cause gets talked about in a few political journals at the local university campus, and doesn't enter the internation stream of conciousness.

2. Hammas is called a "terrorist" organization by its detractors, and thus anything associated with the membership is defined as aiding and abetting terrorism. Total nonsense. Remember that Palestine is a society that does NOT have ecomic and political structure, authority, government, legal precedents, instituions, or self determination. Hammas (for some) unifies people and communities. It does charity work. It serves the poor. It builds hospitals. In short, Hammas is like the community center, the medical clinic, and the city council all rolled into one. Only a small wing of Hammas is dedicated to the activities of terrorism. And since this organiztion operates as a loose confederation of alliances of groups within Palestine, one wing of the group often has nothing to do with the other. Yet, it stuns me that our leaders in this country look at things so one-dimensionally and repudiate EVERYTHING associated with the organization (taht frankly, does a lot of good for its people).

3. In any time of political and economic strife, the extremes polarize. What this means is, the violent wing becomes even MORE violent. When a people's basic human rights are violated, that tends to inflame passions. The history of revolutions are that this happens in almost every society where there are severely oppressed people. Hmamas and the Palestinian cause certainly has a robid violent wing, and there are disputes as to the numbers and percentages. But, it's still relatively low. According to the first Gallop Poll to be conducted in the West Bank, Gaza and occupied territoties, the MAJORITY of Palestinians are actually OPPOSED to terrorism. Of course, this is not reported widely in the US. All we see are reports of suicide bombers. Then, when something bad happens a couple of protesters burn an American flag and that makes the CBS News. it would be like defining The United States through the activities of Koresh, Nichols, and other violent groups in operating in the US. No ne ever sees the PEACEFUL Palestinians who have struggle to work and survive every single day in a land where they are second-class citizens. If ALL Palestinans were truly violent and supported terrorism and practiced it, they'd probably successfully take over Isreal, or creat so much havoc that they would be given statehood very quickly. But most Palestinanians are apolitical, just like the citizens of most countries.

4. About 25 percent of Palestinians are Christians. That fact almost never gets reported. It's much easier to demonize Islam.

-- Nolan Dalla
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I saw something on fox a couple days about good Hammas does as for as education-building facilities ect the other day. It was quite impressive and something I was not aware of--however was turned off somewhat by young children in these schools being taught about being martyrs. As Nolan said I am sure we get only one view and I am not naive to think otherwise however regardless who or what religion I can not back anyone that targets civilians and uses terrorism.
I made statement at the start of Iraq war that there is only one way to curtail suicide bombers with relgion and family being their only allegience. A little known fact that this method has had great results in Iraq. Oil fields were being sabatoged to the rate of 20 a month in Iraq at the start. Recently they have had about 2 in last 40 days. Why The U.S. decided to turn over security to the tribesman in those areas and give them basically free hand at security. Their method of success--after they deal with the terrorist--they deal with their families.
Only way to fight terror is with equal terror.
 

Nolan Dalla

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Wayne,

Part of me understands and perhaps even agrees with that "eye for an eye" mentality. On a pure gut level, I can see that a brutal counteroffensive against terrorist could prove effective -- at least in the short term. Hoever, I disagree with some of these tactics becasue in the long run they just inflame more passions and cause moderate wings within the Palestinian movement to become less influential. These people who are having their homes bulldozed, their lands confiscated, and their families firebombed are NOT going to accept and succumb to occupation. Would YOU? The history of this conflict, which started with Israel's creation in 1948, proves that

The root problem is one of COLONIALISM. Israel is a colonial power (largely native European country) which has invaded a foreign terrotory. Try to listen to one of the lessons of Robert S. McNamera who told one one of our biggest mistakes of the Vietnam War. To win and to understand, he said -- you must try to EMPATHIZE WITH YOUR ENEMY. In other words, see things from the other perspective. That doesn't mean agree. But just try to understand, then plan a strategy.

Palestinians, and a large portion of the Arab worls looks upon Israel and the United States as invaders and occupiers. Not just in a military sense. I am talking POLITICALLY, SOCIALLY, ECONOMICALLY. The US puts in battleships all over the region, places troops on Arab soil, props up corrupt monarchies that supress their people in excahnge for oil, and helps Israel to subjugate an indigenous population theough economic aid and military assistance. Furthermore, the people of this region look at American culture and are absolutely terrified (I don't blame them). They see Janet Jackson CDs in street windows, hear their kids listening to rap music, and see a cultural sludge of sewer material flooding into their cities and towns, and see thier culture and traditions challenged. These people even see their native cuisine threatened, as MCDonalds and Pizza Hut pop up on every street corner replacing "Abduls" or whatever -- which creates resentment.

The President keeps parroting the same standard line of bullshit about the Islamic extremists "Hating freddom." It stuns me that this leader of the nation lacks such a basic understanding of the people of the region. Our so called "enemies" are terrified of a cultural, military, economic and political invasion -- which is EXACTLY what is happening right now. They have their own culture and feel threatened by ours. So, a fraction of them are retaliating and fighting back.

Finally, when one of these Hamas stories falls inot the hands of the American media, it's sure to get a lot of play on the airwaves. The media looks for the most far out, most outrageous, most extreme example of resistance, and parrots that as though that's mainstream thinking. If one Palestenian blows up a target each week in Isreal (about right based on the numbers since 2001), that's 52 deaths and suicides a year. Out of a population of about 8 million, that's a pretty damned small numbers. But, that's what comes over the nightly news. In fact, I think the media is contributing to the problem, rather than helping to create a better understanding of the issue.

Nolan Dalla
 

hellah10

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Re: Quiz on Israeli Democracy

Chanman said:
In the occupied West Bank there are "Jewish Roads" and "Non-Jewish Roads"?

thats absolutely true. When I went a few years back, my family and i had to drive on the dirt road or the "taret el wisak" ....not a nice ride, tell ya that much...

the ID things is true as well. everytime my little cousins came home from school, they had to go through 2 checkpoints and show their ID cards each time...and in english, arabic, and hebrew it says "Islam"
 
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