Should Hillary concede now?
- Thread starter smurphy
- Start date
she`s recouping her money now...and eyeing the v.p. nomination....
i`ve made it clear,of the two,i`d much prefer hillary as president than bock...but,
i know i sound like the troofers(maybe i should put the ripple away),but,i`d honestly be afraid to take her as v.p. if i were obama.... he wins,and theres an excellent chance he`s there for 8 years....and even if he f-cks the 1st 4 up,the incumbent will automatically be the nominee in 2012.....
hillary wants it bad....i`ll leave it at that...
another thing i don`t get is why the dem leadership set their delegate determining system up in such a convoluted way...didn`t they know that using these convoluted delegate selection rules(proportional representation) that fragment the delegate take would lead to disaster instead of a stae by state winner take all kind of system?.....
i guess they figured hillary was getting the nod....
and then to compound the mistake,they take all the delegates away from two of the biggest states?....
how can you disenfranchise TWO WHOLE STATES and not turn the process into a sham?.....it`s criminal...i`m shocked that the media isn`t all over this story...
on second thought,no i`m not..
honestly...no offense intended...but this is turning into a chinese fire drill...it`s scary as hell...
i`ve made it clear,of the two,i`d much prefer hillary as president than bock...but,
i know i sound like the troofers(maybe i should put the ripple away),but,i`d honestly be afraid to take her as v.p. if i were obama.... he wins,and theres an excellent chance he`s there for 8 years....and even if he f-cks the 1st 4 up,the incumbent will automatically be the nominee in 2012.....
hillary wants it bad....i`ll leave it at that...
another thing i don`t get is why the dem leadership set their delegate determining system up in such a convoluted way...didn`t they know that using these convoluted delegate selection rules(proportional representation) that fragment the delegate take would lead to disaster instead of a stae by state winner take all kind of system?.....
i guess they figured hillary was getting the nod....
and then to compound the mistake,they take all the delegates away from two of the biggest states?....
how can you disenfranchise TWO WHOLE STATES and not turn the process into a sham?.....it`s criminal...i`m shocked that the media isn`t all over this story...
on second thought,no i`m not..
honestly...no offense intended...but this is turning into a chinese fire drill...it`s scary as hell...
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GW
She was VP once already. I really don't think she wants it. Too small a position for her ego. I think she would rather be the Senator from New York.
She was VP once already. I really don't think she wants it. Too small a position for her ego. I think she would rather be the Senator from New York.
I second that.
Regardless of the big flaws I can see in each of the three candidates, I remain relatively optimistic about our future. And, its mostly because the man in the oval office right now, wont be in it much longer.
In a way, I feel like a Detroit Lions fan, who just knows the team will be better once they can Matt Millen.
That (especially with the referenced Leibermann running mate) is not the third party i was hoping would one day develop.
You might be right about it being political suicide, but i cant wholly discard this as a possibility. She's had a taste of the power and she might just be delusional enough to think she can win in the general.
If she does it, she would get the most third party votes the country has seen since the Bull Moose Party days. All that would do, however, is make her footnote in history a little bigger.......and, of course, put McCain in the White House.
Death Row Often Means a Long Life
California condemns many murderers, but few are ever executed
March 6, 2005
SAN QUENTIN ? When prison guards strapped nervous three-time killer Donald Beardslee to a gurney and administered a lethal injection just after midnight here Jan. 19, it was the first California execution in more than three years.
Beardslee, who in 1981 brutally murdered two young San Francisco-area women after he was paroled from a Missouri prison on another murder conviction, waited 21 years for his day of reckoning. He was 61 and had been on death row longer than the entire life span of one of his victims.
In the quarter century since Californians voted overwhelmingly to restore the death penalty, county prosecutors and juries have put more condemned murderers on death row in this state than in any other except Texas.
Despite the public's willingness to hand out death sentences, California is one of the more hesitant among the 38 capital punishment states to use the penalty, causing some to question if the enormous ongoing cost of capital punishment is worth the relatively few executions it produces.
California has 640 inmates on death row, about 20% of the nation's total. But the state has accounted for only 1% of the nation's executions ? or 11 deaths ? since 1978, when the death penalty was restored.
"What we are paying for at such great cost," said UC Berkeley law professor Frank Zimring, "is essentially our own ambivalence about capital punishment. We try to maintain the apparatus of state killing and another apparatus that almost guarantees that it won't happen. The public pays for both sides.":SIB
According to state and federal records obtained by The Times, maintaining the California death penalty system costs taxpayers more than $114 million a year beyond the cost of simply keeping the convicts locked up for life and not counting the millions more in court costs needed to prosecute capital cases and hold post-conviction hearings in state and federal courts. :scared
With 11 executions spread over 27 years, on a per-execution basis, California and federal taxpayers have paid more than a quarter of a billion dollars for each life taken at state hands.
Capital punishment advocates argue that the death penalty saves money by eliminating state costs of housing the executed inmates. The rare California executions do produce some savings for the state. For example, had Beardsley lived to age 77, the average life expectancy for California males, it would have cost the state an additional $2 million to house him. But these kinds of savings make only a small dent in the overall sums needed to maintain the system.
Former California Atty. Gen. Dan Lungren, now a Republican member of Congress from Sacramento, accuses capital punishment opponents of conducting a "war of attrition" against the death penalty, jacking up the cost and greatly prolonging appeals with the intent of making the process too expensive to keep up.
"I don't think society ought to be forced to give up the death penalty just because of actions by those who have been ratcheting up the costs," said Lungren, who helped write a 1996 federal law attempting to speed up capital case appeals. "It is very difficult to calculate the human costs or even the economic costs of those who are not killed because of the deterrence of capital punishment."
Other states execute much more rapidly than California. Eleven Southern states ? led by Texas (337 executions), Virginia (94) and Oklahoma (75) ? account for 90% of all executions in the last 27 years. This is partly because California, similar to other non-Southern capital punishment states, dedicates much more time and money to state and federal appeals.
Another important factor is that the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, serving California and consisting largely of Democratic appointees, is more likely to hear death penalty petitions than the more conservative appeals courts serving Texas (5th Circuit) and Virginia (4th Circuit).
"We don't turn them [executions] out the way a lot of Southern states do," California Chief Justice Ronald M. George said in an interview. "The virtue of our system is also its vice. We go to such lengths to minimize the possibility of error, and we've built in a lot of delay.
"The part I find most dysfunctional is that we have a delay of three to four years between the time the death penalty judgment is imposed by the trial court and the time the defendant is appointed counsel."
George said that 115 death row inmates still have not been appointed lawyers for the first direct appeal to the state Supreme Court that is mandated by state law. And 149 lack lawyers for state habeas corpus and executive clemency petitions.
In recent years, both state and federal courts have increased the incentives for qualified defense attorneys to take death penalty cases. The state Supreme Court offers $125 an hour or fixed fees ranging from $135,000 to $314,000 for capital case defense representation. The federal courts recently increased their hourly rate to $150 for defense lawyers in capital cases.
But even at those rates, only a relative handful of attorneys from the 200,000 licensed to practice in California are willing to devote the years of work and vast number of filings a typical capital case can take.
Because of the long appeals process, the delay between sentencing and execution in California averages nearly 20 years. As a result, there is a general graying of the population on death row. According to Department of Corrections statistics, 180 death row inmates are older than 50; 42 are older than 60.
Prison records show that California death row inmates are far more likely to die of natural causes than they are at the hands of the executioner. Since 1978, during the same period that 11 inmates were put to death, 28 died naturally, 12 committed suicide and two were killed in incidents on the San Quentin exercise yard.:shrug: :SIB
"The leading cause of death on death row," George said, "is old age.":shrug:
Capital punishment California style has become a small industry. Every February, organizers with the California Attorneys for Criminal Justice and California Public Defenders Assn. host a conference on death penalty issues in Monterey, Calif.
This year's convention, titled "Executing Justice, not People," was held at a cost of $300 a head. More than 1,500 participants attended workshops on topics that included "What the Enemy Is Doing" and "Sexual Abuse of Our Clients When They Were Young."
Among the tactics routinely discussed by attendees is how to prolong appeals.
The public cost of maintaining the death penalty, meanwhile, continues to mount. The annual bill breaks down like this:
? According to Corrections Department spokeswoman Margot Bach, it costs $90,000 more a year to house an inmate on death row, where each person has a private cell and extra guards, than in the general prison population. That accounts for $57.5 million annually.:SIB
? Atty. Gen. Bill Lockyer, whose deputies represent the counties during appeals, estimates that he devotes about 15% of his criminal division budget to capital cases, or about $11 million annually.:scared
? The California Supreme Court, which is required by law to review every death penalty case, spends $11.8 million annually for court-appointed defense counsel.:nono:
? The Office of the State Public Defender, which represents some death row inmates, has an annual budget of $11.3 million. The San Francisco-based Habeas Corpus Resource Center, another state-funded office, represents inmates and trains death penalty attorneys on a budget of $11 million.
? Finally, federal public defenders offices in Los Angeles and Sacramento, and private attorneys appointed by the federal court system for California cases, receive about $12 million annually.
The resulting $114-million annual cost does not include the substantial extra funds needed to try the complicated capital cases in county courts.
Research by the UC Berkeley School of Public Policy in 1993, the most recent study of its type available, showed that in Los Angeles County, a capital murder trial costs three times more to try than a noncapital murder case, $1.9 million compared to $630,000. One reason for the extra costs is that capital cases require a jury trial for sentencing after guilt has been determined in the first trial.
Typically, capital cases have four times as many pretrial motions, more investigators and expert testimony and much more exhaustive jury selection.
Other spending not included in the total are courtroom, staff and filing costs at the California Supreme Court, four federal district courts and the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.
In an interview, George estimated that the state's highest court spends about 20% of its time and resources on death penalty cases alone. Federal habeas corpus appeals in death cases are so expensive that the 9th Circuit assigns a U.S. district judge just to review the budgets of each capital case.
For the present, activists both for and against the death penalty are unhappy.
"When we reinstated the death penalty, I don't think anyone believed it would look like it does today," said Dane Gillette, a senior assistant attorney general who overseas the state's death penalty cases. "The system is twisted and corrupted in ways that were not anticipated."
Michael Laurence, director of the Habeas Corpus Resource Center and one of the state's leading capital defense lawyers, sees the whole process as an enormous misuse of resources.
.............................................................
If this dont just make you sick , then your not a American.
Death penalty means death. No appeals, no more chances, your dead.
Its just pathetic the money spent on this. No wonder our debt is 549 trillion and some change.
California condemns many murderers, but few are ever executed
March 6, 2005
SAN QUENTIN ? When prison guards strapped nervous three-time killer Donald Beardslee to a gurney and administered a lethal injection just after midnight here Jan. 19, it was the first California execution in more than three years.
Beardslee, who in 1981 brutally murdered two young San Francisco-area women after he was paroled from a Missouri prison on another murder conviction, waited 21 years for his day of reckoning. He was 61 and had been on death row longer than the entire life span of one of his victims.
In the quarter century since Californians voted overwhelmingly to restore the death penalty, county prosecutors and juries have put more condemned murderers on death row in this state than in any other except Texas.
Despite the public's willingness to hand out death sentences, California is one of the more hesitant among the 38 capital punishment states to use the penalty, causing some to question if the enormous ongoing cost of capital punishment is worth the relatively few executions it produces.
California has 640 inmates on death row, about 20% of the nation's total. But the state has accounted for only 1% of the nation's executions ? or 11 deaths ? since 1978, when the death penalty was restored.
"What we are paying for at such great cost," said UC Berkeley law professor Frank Zimring, "is essentially our own ambivalence about capital punishment. We try to maintain the apparatus of state killing and another apparatus that almost guarantees that it won't happen. The public pays for both sides.":SIB
According to state and federal records obtained by The Times, maintaining the California death penalty system costs taxpayers more than $114 million a year beyond the cost of simply keeping the convicts locked up for life and not counting the millions more in court costs needed to prosecute capital cases and hold post-conviction hearings in state and federal courts. :scared
With 11 executions spread over 27 years, on a per-execution basis, California and federal taxpayers have paid more than a quarter of a billion dollars for each life taken at state hands.
Capital punishment advocates argue that the death penalty saves money by eliminating state costs of housing the executed inmates. The rare California executions do produce some savings for the state. For example, had Beardsley lived to age 77, the average life expectancy for California males, it would have cost the state an additional $2 million to house him. But these kinds of savings make only a small dent in the overall sums needed to maintain the system.
Former California Atty. Gen. Dan Lungren, now a Republican member of Congress from Sacramento, accuses capital punishment opponents of conducting a "war of attrition" against the death penalty, jacking up the cost and greatly prolonging appeals with the intent of making the process too expensive to keep up.
"I don't think society ought to be forced to give up the death penalty just because of actions by those who have been ratcheting up the costs," said Lungren, who helped write a 1996 federal law attempting to speed up capital case appeals. "It is very difficult to calculate the human costs or even the economic costs of those who are not killed because of the deterrence of capital punishment."
Other states execute much more rapidly than California. Eleven Southern states ? led by Texas (337 executions), Virginia (94) and Oklahoma (75) ? account for 90% of all executions in the last 27 years. This is partly because California, similar to other non-Southern capital punishment states, dedicates much more time and money to state and federal appeals.
Another important factor is that the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, serving California and consisting largely of Democratic appointees, is more likely to hear death penalty petitions than the more conservative appeals courts serving Texas (5th Circuit) and Virginia (4th Circuit).
"We don't turn them [executions] out the way a lot of Southern states do," California Chief Justice Ronald M. George said in an interview. "The virtue of our system is also its vice. We go to such lengths to minimize the possibility of error, and we've built in a lot of delay.
"The part I find most dysfunctional is that we have a delay of three to four years between the time the death penalty judgment is imposed by the trial court and the time the defendant is appointed counsel."
George said that 115 death row inmates still have not been appointed lawyers for the first direct appeal to the state Supreme Court that is mandated by state law. And 149 lack lawyers for state habeas corpus and executive clemency petitions.
In recent years, both state and federal courts have increased the incentives for qualified defense attorneys to take death penalty cases. The state Supreme Court offers $125 an hour or fixed fees ranging from $135,000 to $314,000 for capital case defense representation. The federal courts recently increased their hourly rate to $150 for defense lawyers in capital cases.
But even at those rates, only a relative handful of attorneys from the 200,000 licensed to practice in California are willing to devote the years of work and vast number of filings a typical capital case can take.
Because of the long appeals process, the delay between sentencing and execution in California averages nearly 20 years. As a result, there is a general graying of the population on death row. According to Department of Corrections statistics, 180 death row inmates are older than 50; 42 are older than 60.
Prison records show that California death row inmates are far more likely to die of natural causes than they are at the hands of the executioner. Since 1978, during the same period that 11 inmates were put to death, 28 died naturally, 12 committed suicide and two were killed in incidents on the San Quentin exercise yard.:shrug: :SIB
"The leading cause of death on death row," George said, "is old age.":shrug:
Capital punishment California style has become a small industry. Every February, organizers with the California Attorneys for Criminal Justice and California Public Defenders Assn. host a conference on death penalty issues in Monterey, Calif.
This year's convention, titled "Executing Justice, not People," was held at a cost of $300 a head. More than 1,500 participants attended workshops on topics that included "What the Enemy Is Doing" and "Sexual Abuse of Our Clients When They Were Young."
Among the tactics routinely discussed by attendees is how to prolong appeals.
The public cost of maintaining the death penalty, meanwhile, continues to mount. The annual bill breaks down like this:
? According to Corrections Department spokeswoman Margot Bach, it costs $90,000 more a year to house an inmate on death row, where each person has a private cell and extra guards, than in the general prison population. That accounts for $57.5 million annually.:SIB
? Atty. Gen. Bill Lockyer, whose deputies represent the counties during appeals, estimates that he devotes about 15% of his criminal division budget to capital cases, or about $11 million annually.:scared
? The California Supreme Court, which is required by law to review every death penalty case, spends $11.8 million annually for court-appointed defense counsel.:nono:
? The Office of the State Public Defender, which represents some death row inmates, has an annual budget of $11.3 million. The San Francisco-based Habeas Corpus Resource Center, another state-funded office, represents inmates and trains death penalty attorneys on a budget of $11 million.
? Finally, federal public defenders offices in Los Angeles and Sacramento, and private attorneys appointed by the federal court system for California cases, receive about $12 million annually.
The resulting $114-million annual cost does not include the substantial extra funds needed to try the complicated capital cases in county courts.
Research by the UC Berkeley School of Public Policy in 1993, the most recent study of its type available, showed that in Los Angeles County, a capital murder trial costs three times more to try than a noncapital murder case, $1.9 million compared to $630,000. One reason for the extra costs is that capital cases require a jury trial for sentencing after guilt has been determined in the first trial.
Typically, capital cases have four times as many pretrial motions, more investigators and expert testimony and much more exhaustive jury selection.
Other spending not included in the total are courtroom, staff and filing costs at the California Supreme Court, four federal district courts and the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.
In an interview, George estimated that the state's highest court spends about 20% of its time and resources on death penalty cases alone. Federal habeas corpus appeals in death cases are so expensive that the 9th Circuit assigns a U.S. district judge just to review the budgets of each capital case.
For the present, activists both for and against the death penalty are unhappy.
"When we reinstated the death penalty, I don't think anyone believed it would look like it does today," said Dane Gillette, a senior assistant attorney general who overseas the state's death penalty cases. "The system is twisted and corrupted in ways that were not anticipated."
Michael Laurence, director of the Habeas Corpus Resource Center and one of the state's leading capital defense lawyers, sees the whole process as an enormous misuse of resources.
.............................................................
If this dont just make you sick , then your not a American.
Death penalty means death. No appeals, no more chances, your dead.
Its just pathetic the money spent on this. No wonder our debt is 549 trillion and some change.
It does make me sick, Scotty. It makes me sick that our federal and state governments continue to waste money on the death penalty when it could be spent on something actually worthwhile.
No appeals? So as long as a prosecutor lies well enough to deceive a jury -- and trust me, that happens often -- ring 'em up? I know guys like Wease have no problems with innocent people being killed, but I hoped for more from you.
personally,i don`t like jim webb...i think he`s got the biggest ego of practically any politician i`ve come across(and the worst hairpiece...lord i hope that`s a hairpiece?)....the guy`s threatening to punch people out and seems to be always packing heat...i`d like to see somebody knock the wig off that little rooster`s head...
he needs to realize the rules apply to him,too...
what about obama`s policy stance differs so much from hillary`s platform?....they have basically the same iraq plan(cut and run)...
set the war aside for a sec.....i can`t believe you guys are so narrow minded that you`re one issue voters....lets expand the discussion a bit....what about obama do you guys like so much?...the raising of taxes ?...nationalized healthcare?(i hope they allow those of us with jobs that pay for their own healthcare to keep what we have)....the redistribution of wealth from those that earn it to those that don`t(socialism)?...a great incentive for those with the broad shoulders...
you like the dem`s obstinate stance regarding our country providing for some of it`s own energy needs?....drilling in anwar and off our own coasts..nuclear power...coal and oil shale...
would you rather us stay dependent on saudi arabia or make up the deficit from our own resources?....it`s been established that we`d now be pulling over a million barrels a day if bill clinton hadn`t vetoed the bill that would have allowed drilling back in 1995......
anybody not think that if we were producing enough oil to not be dependent on the middle east that the price wouldn`t drop?....
anybody think that even now just the threat of our drilling for our own oil(i know we`d still be dependent on canada/mexico and probably venezuela to a lesser extent)wouldn`t lower prices?....
why are we so f-cking obstinate?...changing lightbulbs and efficiency standards are band-aids...we`re gonna have to get off the dime...
start now....don`t make the same mistake we made in `95....
i hold little hope for this country because mccain isn`t much different that hillary and bock....other than the war,he`s lame as hell on immigration,waterboarding,and i don`t believe for a second he`ll be much different than the dems in appointing justices(abortion,abortion,abortion .....not an issue for me)...
it`s going to be very interesting to look back in 4 years...when gitmo`s shut down and these monster`s get geneva convention protections and aclu lawyers...when they`re in our own prison`s proselytizing....
when the congress,along with the president roll back our surveillance programs...when iran gets their bomb and possibly passes a suitcase weapon along to some crazy surrogates...
it`s gonna be a brave new world...no incentives for big business...or the smaller business person to strive for anything...`cause the government`s gonna cut their legs out from under them.... to provide for the illegals(their new favorite voting minority/dependent).....
what really amazes me is that bock is the supposed agent of all this "change"....he`s going to bring both parties...both ideologies together....
????....
actually,he was the most liberal democrat in the senate last year voting-wise and rarely if ever reached across the aisle....
strangely enough,it`s mclame that does all the bi-partisan reaching across the aisle(much to the chagrin of conservatives like meself)....
i thank god that i`m o.k. financially..i`m not rich,but i don`t owe anybody a damned thing other than my monthly nut(s)(g&e/cable/phone,car and home insurance/water bill/pay the visa in full every month along with ridiculous property and consumer taxation and every scam to wring a few more dollars out of me like emissions tests for the vehicles.....and now in my neck of the woods they`re taxing "services")...
it`s never ending...
with the gov`t so far up everyone`s asses,i wonder how the average joe with a young family makes ends meet...
ohhh boy.....it`s gonna get verrrry interesting...
he needs to realize the rules apply to him,too...
what about obama`s policy stance differs so much from hillary`s platform?....they have basically the same iraq plan(cut and run)...
set the war aside for a sec.....i can`t believe you guys are so narrow minded that you`re one issue voters....lets expand the discussion a bit....what about obama do you guys like so much?...the raising of taxes ?...nationalized healthcare?(i hope they allow those of us with jobs that pay for their own healthcare to keep what we have)....the redistribution of wealth from those that earn it to those that don`t(socialism)?...a great incentive for those with the broad shoulders...
you like the dem`s obstinate stance regarding our country providing for some of it`s own energy needs?....drilling in anwar and off our own coasts..nuclear power...coal and oil shale...
would you rather us stay dependent on saudi arabia or make up the deficit from our own resources?....it`s been established that we`d now be pulling over a million barrels a day if bill clinton hadn`t vetoed the bill that would have allowed drilling back in 1995......
anybody not think that if we were producing enough oil to not be dependent on the middle east that the price wouldn`t drop?....
anybody think that even now just the threat of our drilling for our own oil(i know we`d still be dependent on canada/mexico and probably venezuela to a lesser extent)wouldn`t lower prices?....
why are we so f-cking obstinate?...changing lightbulbs and efficiency standards are band-aids...we`re gonna have to get off the dime...
start now....don`t make the same mistake we made in `95....
i hold little hope for this country because mccain isn`t much different that hillary and bock....other than the war,he`s lame as hell on immigration,waterboarding,and i don`t believe for a second he`ll be much different than the dems in appointing justices(abortion,abortion,abortion
.....not an issue for me)...it`s going to be very interesting to look back in 4 years...when gitmo`s shut down and these monster`s get geneva convention protections and aclu lawyers...when they`re in our own prison`s proselytizing....
when the congress,along with the president roll back our surveillance programs...when iran gets their bomb and possibly passes a suitcase weapon along to some crazy surrogates...
it`s gonna be a brave new world...no incentives for big business...or the smaller business person to strive for anything...`cause the government`s gonna cut their legs out from under them.... to provide for the illegals(their new favorite voting minority/dependent).....
what really amazes me is that bock is the supposed agent of all this "change"....he`s going to bring both parties...both ideologies together....
????....
actually,he was the most liberal democrat in the senate last year voting-wise and rarely if ever reached across the aisle....
strangely enough,it`s mclame that does all the bi-partisan reaching across the aisle(much to the chagrin of conservatives like meself)....
i thank god that i`m o.k. financially..i`m not rich,but i don`t owe anybody a damned thing other than my monthly nut(s)(g&e/cable/phone,car and home insurance/water bill/pay the visa in full every month along with ridiculous property and consumer taxation and every scam to wring a few more dollars out of me like emissions tests for the vehicles.....and now in my neck of the woods they`re taxing "services")...
it`s never ending...
with the gov`t so far up everyone`s asses,i wonder how the average joe with a young family makes ends meet...
ohhh boy.....it`s gonna get verrrry interesting...
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IMO Hilliary has been waiting for something monumental to drop on Obama--and sway voters and supers.
Lets face facts--this primary boils down to one thing--race
She should have came to conclusion this time--doesn't make any diff what developes with Obama--he's going to tab 90%+ of black vote regardless and her 60% of white vote won't cut it.
--and she can forget supers or party in general coming to her aid--they would/will concede 4 years to McCain before they will risk jeopardizing their 90% supporters in future elections.
Lets face facts--this primary boils down to one thing--race
She should have came to conclusion this time--doesn't make any diff what developes with Obama--he's going to tab 90%+ of black vote regardless and her 60% of white vote won't cut it.
--and she can forget supers or party in general coming to her aid--they would/will concede 4 years to McCain before they will risk jeopardizing their 90% supporters in future elections.
smurph,i`ve said before i believe that having all branches of gov`t in one party`s pocket is bad for the country...that`s why i think we`re heading for a fall...
and djv...theres a reason you have to be at least 35 to run for president..you have to be fully cooked first......that partially explains why the young,recently wacademia-indoctrinated crew are voting for bock...being young and in a liberal college environment is akin to indoctrination...it`s almost a disease(it falls somewhere between a.d.d. and restless leg syndrome,with a lean to a.d.d:grins: )....
wait till they start working for a living...when they start getting robbed blind by their gov`t......
the worm will turn...i just hope we can recover...
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I know what your saying. I am not against appeals but come on. These guys appeal so much they end up using the courts time and costs almost to exhaustion.
We have this Nicols guy in Georgia . He killed 4 people including a sitting judge on his case. He was on camera. He got out and ended up killing a FBI agent who was washing his car. Now they have changed judges a few times and over 2 million has been spent. For what. This guy needs to fry and tommorrow would be too soon.
99 % of death row people have done the most heinious acts to society . I mean just get that over and save millions. Use the money to help children and victims of crime.
I just want it changed. I dont want innocent people dieing on death row. Although most die from old age.
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I agree race enters into it. but the real reason Hillary is going down the tubes is mistrust, lieing, and thieving. Americans have had enough.
At least with Obama in the white house the majority of people that come with him will have never served before.
Unlike with Clintons or McCain where all the homesteaders will come from under the rugs again.
Change is needed. Big changes.
