Socialiam Sucks?

Mags

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,813
27
48
I am in total agreement of a fair tax.

I also know that this will never and I mean never happen in the USA

Just follow the fawking money.

IRS will have to make deep cuts in personel as they will not be needed to look at tax returns, forms, changes, and everything else they do or dont do.

Accountants and the like would never allow this.

It would put them out of fawking business quick.

Get real

Fair tax is for dreamers and fantasy football players

I think Mags qualifys on both counts

Typical Scotty response - has to include an insult (I think that was meant as one)

And, in regards to the fair tax - the Dems had no problem screwing with heatlhcare, which is much more important, and impacts a lot more jobs - why not the tax code too?

OK, I'll answer that - the heatlhcare bill significantly reduces PRIVATE sector jobs - but increases PUBLIC sector jobs - so that is ok.

A flat tax would signficantly reduce both sectors' work - both private and public - and reducing the public sector is not allowed in Democratic circles, so it is a non starter under this administration.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Chad - thanks for responding. It is nice to see a response that isn't full of name calling, etc, which seems to be the only way to respond to discussions by some of the guys on this board (Scott, Muffy, etc). ??

................................................................

Even when you respond to something you still have to stick my name in there so wtf.

you get what you pay for
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
- the Dems had no problem screwing with heatlhcare, which is much more important, and impacts a lot more jobs - why not the tax code too?
................................................................


The healthcare bill screws with corruption and thats what you neocons cannot take.

Not after protecting , Doctors, insurance co, drug companies, medicare fraud , etc etc.

thats why you hate it.

Change we can believe in :00hour

First President in 50 years to be able to pass a healthcare reform bill .

:0008
 

Mags

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,813
27
48
................................................................

Even when you respond to something you still have to stick my name in there so wtf.

you get what you pay for

Face it Scott - there are very few posts you make regarding other posts that you don't agree with, where you don't spend more time belittling the author instead of providing coherent analysis or thought.

Basically, anybody that doesn't agree with your point of view is stupid, racist, or worse.

It gets kinda old.... and you certainly do not get smarter, or become a better person, by just shutting down other points of view and calling people names....

JMHO.
 

Mags

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,813
27
48
................................................................


The healthcare bill screws with corruption and thats what you neocons cannot take.

Not after protecting , Doctors, insurance co, drug companies, medicare fraud , etc etc.

thats why you hate it.

Change we can believe in :00hour

First President in 50 years to be able to pass a healthcare reform bill .

:0008

Perfect example.... neocons.... the rest of your message makes little sense.

So, you cover up the nonsensical points by just throwing insults out.... which seems to a consistent liberal approach, not only used by you.....

Others see it too - not sure why anyone bothers with you, when that's all you do. You probably do have something to add, and maybe something postive, but it's impossible to tell when all you do is call people names.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Face it Scott - there are very few posts you make regarding other posts that you don't agree with, where you don't spend more time belittling the author instead of providing coherent analysis or thought.

Basically, anybody that doesn't agree with your point of view is stupid, racist, or worse.

It gets kinda old.... and you certainly do not get smarter, or become a better person, by just shutting down other points of view and calling people names....

JMHO.
..................................................................

The only one I do this to really is DTBlackgumby

and thats only because he frustrates me with never ending confusion of trying to understand his logic and thoughts.

I wish there were more ppl in here that had a opinion and wasnt overbearing with it not to listen to the other side.

I think overall I am pretty tame in here.

I think you drove KC away if I am not mistaken

So nice job there
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
OK, I'll answer that - the heatlhcare bill significantly reduces PRIVATE sector jobs - but increases PUBLIC sector jobs - so that is ok.
I'm no fan of the healthcare reform bill, primarily because of all the compromises that were made to pacify the Republicans and Blue Dog Dems, but how exactly will it reduce private sector jobs?
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Perfect example.... neocons.... the rest of your message makes little sense.

So, you cover up the nonsensical points by just throwing insults out.... which seems to a consistent liberal approach, not only used by you.....

Others see it too - not sure why anyone bothers with you, when that's all you do. You probably do have something to add, and maybe something postive, but it's impossible to tell when all you do is call people names.
...............................................................


I think it makes perfect sense to someone that isnt a neocon. I have heard your side of the health care reform.

I am not a liberal.

I am a logical thinker.

I will consider voting for Ron Paul in 2012.

What liberal do you know that would do that ?

In the meantime I am sure you have Newt lined up on your voting ticket.

Do you take particular offense to the term neocon ?

DTBlackgumby embraces it.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
I'm no fan of the healthcare reform bill, primarily because of all the compromises that were made to pacify the Republicans and Blue Dog Dems, but how exactly will it reduce private sector jobs?

..................................................................

The doctors and nurses will leave in droves.

A few have. But not to the extent that Mags would want them to.

They want this to fail so bad.
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
So, you cover up the nonsensical points by just throwing insults out.... which seems to a consistent liberal approach, not only used by you.....
And conservatives don't do the very same thing? You're joking, right? :shrug:
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
...............................................................
I will consider voting for Ron Paul in 2012.

What liberal do you know that would do that ?
I'm 100% liberal Scotty and I could very easily see myself voting for Ron Paul in 2012. But the only way Ron Paul will EVER get on the ballot in a general election is as an Independent.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
I'm 100% liberal Scotty and I could very easily see myself voting for Ron Paul in 2012. But the only way Ron Paul will EVER get on the ballot in a general election is as an Independent.
................................................................

Holy chit I may be a fawking Liberal

:scared

I would rather be a liberal than a right wing neocon war monger neo conservative non logical booze drinking sex playing corrupt Republican


Did I call names again

oh chit Mags is right :facepalm: :violin:
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
..................................................................

The doctors and nurses will leave in droves.
Yeah right... doctors will throw away their years of medical school, internship, residency and practices to do what... become bartenders, insurance salesmen, realtors and truck drivers? :142smilie
 

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
Very much agree with Trench's last post - I find the threat of doctors (especially) leaving the profession for other jobs ridiculous, but maybe someone can explain what else they could do that could make them as much money as they make as doctors - even when new bill is in effect.

Mags, thanks for answering my post. Your number seems about right to me, the 14-15% number, as less than that could not sustain our country, and more than that definitely gets into the discretionary spending area. You are the very first person to both state a number, and state the logic behind it, and say they would be for it, that reside in the upper area on this board. Family-wise - I am also most likely in this area, and think it would be great for us in many ways, and not so great in other ways. But I think you mentioned that there are many wealthy people that would LOSE money in this process, and I think that is the main reason it has never gained traction by politicians to this point.

I want to say one other thing, FWIW. I think the namecalling on this board is very much slanted towards the liberals shouting out negatively towards conservatives, most of the time. And the frustrating thing to me is, I think the majority of liberals have very good opinions and information to toss out, from what I read. But you just reduce a majority of your posts to ridiculing a handful of conservative posters. Over and over again. So much time is spent here calling out other people for bullshit, instead of just discussing issues. Which you usually do very well, when dealing with the subject matter.

I guess this last paragraph labels me again as being more of a moderate or centrist, and definitely a boring board policeman, but I find the ongoing namecalling and posturing that goes on here sad and boring.

Now that I've said that - feel free to rip me and call me a pussy... have a great evening :mj07:
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
I want to say one other thing, FWIW. I think the namecalling on this board is very much slanted towards the liberals shouting out negatively towards conservatives, most of the time. And the frustrating thing to me is, I think the majority of liberals have very good opinions and information to toss out, from what I read. But you just reduce a majority of your posts to ridiculing a handful of conservative posters. Over and over again. So much time is spent here calling out other people for bullshit, instead of just discussing issues. Which you usually do very well, when dealing with the subject matter.
As usual, you're right Chadman. That's why I told Jack I would try to tone down my wise-cracking in the "This forum blows" thread. What I meant was that I'd remove personal comments from my posts because you can attack or challenge ideas without personalizing them. If we keep up the personal attacks, it's only a matter of time before Jack locks this forum back down or kills it altogether. I suspect the only reason he hasn't done it yet is because he doesn't want guys taking politics into the general forum.

Btw Scotty, I know you were just making the point about what others have said regarding doctors and nurses leaving the medical field when the healthcare reform bill kicks in. :0008
 

Mags

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,813
27
48
..................................................................

The only one I do this to really is DTBlackgumby

and thats only because he frustrates me with never ending confusion of trying to understand his logic and thoughts.

I wish there were more ppl in here that had a opinion and wasnt overbearing with it not to listen to the other side.

I think overall I am pretty tame in here.

I think you drove KC away if I am not mistaken

So nice job there

Well, if I "drove" KC away due to my positions on things, that's too bad. I certainly did not do so via the name calling that the left does all the time here (you know who you are).

Heck, rarely do I see DTB calling anyone names - he typically posts info and takes a position on something - and then people reply by calling him names. I don't get it.

This could actually be a fun and worthwhile forum if there were more people that could just discuss points without having to resort to that. Chad is one that comes to mind that handles this well.
 

Mags

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,813
27
48
Yeah right... doctors will throw away their years of medical school, internship, residency and practices to do what... become bartenders, insurance salesmen, realtors and truck drivers? :142smilie

Guys, it is not just doctors and nurses that lose jobs from this health care bill..... and frankly those folks won't be leaving until 2014 anyway.

There are a number of companies that are closing up shop due to the "reforms" - a number of which have already announced it and explained that they can't survive with the health care bill as is.

Other companies are slashing large portions of their payroll, in an effort to meet the MLR. A company I know somebody from just told me they laid off 130 people - all managers/VP's making between $90K and $200K - nobody that is rich (by Obama's definition), but a lot of people with familiies that work hard. You'll see more and more of this.

There are a lot of small insurance companies out there, in small locales, that will not be able to compete with this new reform in place - leaving consumers with 1 or 2 choices per state - likely BCBS and UnitedHealthcare. Couple that will these companies only being able to sell Policies that Obama approves (read rich benefits and very expensive), and there will be very little choice for consumers out there - unlike pre-reform, where in most areas there were hundreds of products people could choose from.

Of course, many of the insurance agents will also go belly up, as companies will no longer by able to pay commissions to agents, due to the MLR.

So, yes, there will be a lot of employment lost due to this bill.

Think of it this way - name me another private industry where the government mandates what the companies can pay for salaries and profit? How many of them have to pay their profit back if the government feels they make too much? I've never seen Microsoft have to do that..... The ONLY time this has happenned in our country's history (that I can think of) is with our utilities - like water and electric - since this it an actual monopoly.

But healthcare (as of now) has many players and products, and compete currently on price and quality. The future it won't be that way - you'll have one choice and you'll have to take it (can't even refuse it, even if you hate it).

Frankly, I find it abhorent that the Feds are mandating specific profit levels (4%) and expense levels (16%). And that's not the worse thing - if companies were guaranteed a 4% return, they'd live with it. But they are not. If the loss ratio is 79%, they make 4%, and return 1% to the customer. If it is 85%, they lose money and can't recoup the money from customers. It's now a business with a limited upside (4%) and an unlimited downside (claims could go very high in a given year). And predictitng future claims in the health business is not an easy task - not like life insurance. In health, you not only have to account for the incidence of claims (how many there are), but also what the amounts are going to be (which is highly variable). Life insurance is so easy in comparision - you can only have 1 claim (death) and only 1 amount to pay (the face amount of the policy).

How many of you would invest in the stock market, knowing that the most you would be allowed to make is 4% in a given year, but you could lose an unlimited amount on the downside? Not too many of you, I'd bet.

This is a slippery slope - if the government can control how much private insurance companies can make, why not apply this to other industries, for the sake of the consumer? Auto's would be a great place to start - let's cut salaries, worker's health benefits, and limit profits. How much cheaper would cars be then? Damn the auto worker's if, through government mandates a lower price? The food/clothing industries are other examples - look at how much money the GAP wastes on advertising - if they didn't, prices would be much lower, and the consumer would benefit.

It's hard to argue that government control of profitability is ok for some industries, and not for others. Very slippery slope indeed.
 

Duff Miver

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 29, 2009
6,521
55
0
Right behind you
How many of you would invest in the stock market, knowing that the most you would be allowed to make is 4% in a given year, but you could lose an unlimited amount on the downside? Not too many of you, I'd bet.

A bit off base there, Mags. 4% in the stock market is return on investment, and no, that's not very good.

However a return of 4% on sales, and that's what we're looking at here, could be very, very good, since an insurance company's investment is a tiny fraction of sales.

Grocery stores, for example, would be delighted with 4% of sales, since that would be at least 50% return on investment.

So, Mags, is it just that you are confused by the difference between return on sales and return on investment, or are you trying to mislead the gullible?

And as far as putting insurance agents on the street, that's a good thing, since they contribute nothing but extra cost to health care. More money for doctors - less for insurance peddlers sounds good.
 

Mags

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,813
27
48
A bit off base there, Mags. 4% in the stock market is return on investment, and no, that's not very good.

However a return of 4% on sales, and that's what we're looking at here, could be very, very good, since an insurance company's investment is a tiny fraction of sales.

Grocery stores, for example, would be delighted with 4% of sales, since that would be at least 50% return on investment.

So, Mags, is it just that you are confused by the difference between return on sales and return on investment, or are you trying to mislead the gullible?

And as far as putting insurance agents on the street, that's a good thing, since they contribute nothing but extra cost to health care. More money for doctors - less for insurance peddlers sounds good.

Not sure your points are all valid, as insurance companies do have to hold large reserves as required by state DOI's for solvency.

Let me put it this way - health insurance companies margins were ranked 35th when all sectors were viewed - well behind many industries, including railroads. Now we are trying to reduce that even further. Who is going to invest/support these companies with the draconian restriction on profit? What about the 34 sectors ranked well ahead of insurance companies? Shouldn't they also be limited in similiar ways? That, too, would be best for the consumer, wouldn't it?
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top