STUPID AND JUST UNREAL

[fletcher]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com./id/6551094

First off I have lot of questions on this, will find out more in the next few days. But why was he using a sks to deer hunt hell the mags hold 20 and some hold 30. Also is very easy to make this into fully auto. There are some messed up people out there, this will give some jack ass in government and other anti gun groups fire power for more stupid remarks and they will try to make all hunters out to be bad and irresponsible gun owners, Which the truth of the matter is anyone brought up in a family of hunters and outdoors-men have more respect for the most part of the land, the animals and the firearms then people who have no clue to guns and firearms. Like your gang bangers with their taped up Saturday night specials that get cleaned maybe 1-2 times in 3 years or so depending on how many people they shot with it and how long they keep it.

Hunters for the most part are who keeps a good eye on the gun industry as well as the NRA .

You never hunt on private land first of all with out asking and from what i got so far this guy was not all there to start with, hell if you can't get a clean shot off and kill with 2 shots you should not be shooting anyway, no need for a gun with that large of a mag in it.

 

[Captain Crunch]

:iagree: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Dogfish]

also agree,very sad.news confrence at 9.30 central time,maybe find out more.from what i know this was a moung from saint paul,trespasing on private land,(nothing against the moung very peacefull people and very large populatian in mn.)but there have been many problems with them understanding our hunting and fishing rules.i am pro hunting also and a landowner in northern mn.full of deer.latley people have know respect and just asume they can hunt my land never ask.hunting ended here last weekend and i would never consider going out in woods those two weekends.its like a war zone.the true sportsman only suffer from these assholes that will shoot at anything including your house,dogs,cows and of course mailbox.also originally from twin cities but always had respect when i came north to hunt here.this new generation of hunters is out of control and not enough d.n.r. officcers to patrol. dam i spell worse than you fletch.

 

[ocelot]

I'm not a hunter but I heard a guy say once that the sks was a nice rifle to use for deer hunting in the south - don't remember why. You don't HAVE to go automatic with it anyway. Of course some idiots shouldn't even be allowed to handle a water pistol.

(Or a drink with ice in it...Detroit Fan)

 

[Big Daddy]

This is big news around here. It happened just a few miles from here.






Posted on Mon, Nov. 22, 2004



5 fatally shot in hunting dispute

St. Paul man was told to leave private land, shot 8, authorities say

BY KEVIN HARTER and TOM MAJESKI

Pioneer Press


'Many of the people we need to talk to are in the operating room.'
? Sawyer County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle

METEOR TOWNSHIP, Wis. ? Five people were fatally shot and three others seriously wounded around noon Sunday by a deer hunter from St. Paul after he was told to leave a deer stand on private land near Birchwood, a small community in northwest Wisconsin, Sawyer County authorities said.

The suspect, Chai Vang, was arrested about 5 p.m., Sawyer County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said.

When Vang was arrested, he was carrying a high-powered SKS assault rifle and was out of ammunition, Zeigle said.

"Information is sketchy at this time," Zeigle said Sunday evening. "Many of the people we need to talk to are in the operating room. I've never experienced anything like this."

One of the fatalities was a woman and another, a male, was the owner of the property, Zeigle said, declining to name them. According to a neighbor, the property is owned by Bob Crotteau.

Some of the victims had been shot more than once, Zeigle added.

Law enforcement officials said that they still do not know how many people were in the hunting party but that children were in the group. Most of the hunters are thought to be from the immediate area, Zeigle said.

The three injured hunters were taken to Lakeview Medical Center in Rice Lake. One of the injured was then airlifted to St. Joseph's Hospital in Marshfield.

Family members identified the two victims being treated at Lakeview Medical Center as Dennis Drew and Lauren Hesebeck. They said Drew had been shot in the abdomen and Hesebeck had been shot in the arm, with the bullet coming out his back. Drew was in serious condition and Hesebeck was in fair condition.

"Our families certainly appreciate the thoughts and prayers of this close-knit community and encourage you to think and pray for the other families involved," members of Drew's family said in a statement.

A spokeswoman at the Marshfield hospital said late Sunday that the adult male shooting victim brought there was in critical condition and had not yet been taken to surgery.

The shooting occurred near a deer shack on heavily wooded land about four miles east of Birchwood. The shack sits about half a mile off Deer Lake Road just across from Deer Lake in Meteor Township in southwestern Sawyer County. Described as prime deer-hunting territory, the rolling land is heavily wooded, including with poplar and some birch.

Zeigle said two members of the hunting party were returning to their shack about noon when they spotted a hunter sitting in one of their deer stands. They told him that he was on private property and that he needed to leave.

Hunters must ask permission to hunt on private property. Authorities say trespassing is one of the most frequent violations during the deer season.

The victims told authorities that the trespasser had a large deer hunting number on his back that hunters are required to wear in Wisconsin.

Zeigle said there was an exchange of words, some type of confrontation erupted and the man opened fire with his assault rifle.

One of the injured hunters used his walkie-talkie to alert his companions in the hunting shack that he had been shot, Zeigle said. When the other hunters emerged from the shack, the shooter began firing at them as well, he said.

In the meantime, one of the victims jotted down the shooter's deer-hunting number.

Zeigle said members of the hunting party may have returned fire, "but this has not been confirmed. I know that people who confronted him were speaking with him and then he opened fire. There's no explanation for what happened unless he went nuts. Why five are dead just because somebody was trespassing is nuts."

The injured hunters tried to call for help, but there is no cell-phone reception in that area of Wisconsin, so the men loaded a fellow injured hunter into a pickup and drove to a store on Wisconsin 48 in Birchwood. They were met there by an ambulance, which transported the badly hurt hunter to the Rice Lake hospital.

The hunting number that one victim had jotted down was then relayed to officials in the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, who quickly identified the suspect as Vang, Zeigle said.

Authorities from Sawyer and surrounding counties began blocking off roads and searching the woods. Expecting that the search would last into the night, they called in K-9 units and helicopters equipped with infrared equipment.

 

[Big Daddy]

In the meantime, Vang, who apparently had gotten lost in the woods, encountered two deer hunters, and they guided him to a nearby road about a mile from the shooting scene. Once he was on the road, a nearby DNR officer spotted the number on Vang's back and arrested him without incident.

Vang is being held in the Sawyer County Jail in Hayward, Wis.

David Drew was part of the hunting party along with his brother Dennis and his brother-in-law Hesebeck, all of Rice Lake. He said the group started hunting at 7 o'clock that morning near Rice Lake and then traveled to a friend's property later in the morning.

David Drew said he was in the cabin Sunday afternoon. His brother and brother-in-law were outside with a group of others when he heard shots and a call over the group's walkie-talkie: "I need help. I've been shot."

David Drew said two more members of the hunting party rushed out to help.

"I seen the two take off that got shot later," said David Drew, a construction worker.

"We hunted ever since we were kids. It's a real tragedy," David Drew said. "Every day of the hunting season we go."

David Drew said what happened wasn't a confrontation.

"The guy just went nuts," David Drew said. "This is just a weird deal."

David Drew said hunters in the area are usually polite.

"People are on their neighbor's land with permission. There is usually no problem," David Drew said.

The shooting took place on land belonging to Bob Crotteau, said Aaron Widiker, a 24-year-old hunter from Blaine whose family leases a cabin about a mile away from Crotteau's cabin.

Crotteau's 80 acres are surrounded by thousands of acres of public land, Widiker said.

"That's what puzzles us around here," he said. "Why do you have to go onto 80 acres when it's surrounded by thousands of acres of county land?"

Widiker said he couldn't believe Crotteau would have provoked his assailant. "He's a regular guy," Widiker said. "He's not over the top."

Bill Wagner, 72, of Oshkosh, Wis., was about two miles away near Deer Lake with a party of about 20 other hunters. He said the incident was "very upsetting."

After they got word of the shooting, he and others went to round up the rest of the party. He said they heard sirens, planes and helicopters and noticed the surrounding roads blocked off.

"When you're hunting, you don't expect somebody to try to shoot you and murder you," he said. "You have no idea who is coming up to you."

It took about three hours to round up the other hunters, who were up to four miles apart, Wagner said.

The incident won't stop their hunt, he said.

"We're all old, dyed-in-the-wool hunters," he said. "We wouldn't go home because of this, but we will keep it in our minds. We're not forgetting it."

Dale Olson, chairman of the 170-resident Town of Meteor, said deputies were driving up and down the roads using loudspeakers to alert hunters to get out of the woods.

"Things like that just don't happen around here," Olson said.

The area has a lot of public land and attracts out-of-towners.

"I worry about deer being the cause of problems because sometimes even neighbors can have fights and arguments over a deer," he said.

Investigators from the Wisconsin State Crime Lab in Wausau were still processing the shooting scene late Sunday. The five bodies were to be taken later to Hayward and then to Ramsey County for autopsies, authorities said.

St. Paul police said they were contacted by Wisconsin authorities with a name and a vehicle description Sunday afternoon and asked to track down information on the suspect, said police spokesman Paul Schnell.

Neighbors saw police at Vang's home in the 800 block of Fourth Street East around 4 p.m.

The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources sold nearly 640,000 deer licenses for this year's firearms deer season, which opened on Saturday. The season runs through Nov. 28. Many of the hunters are from Minnesota. In fact, Minnesota accounts for the largest number of nonresident deer hunters in Wisconsin. This year, 15,374 firearms licenses were sold to Minnesota residents.

Wisconsin often is among the top five nationally in deer killed by hunters. The state is also among the top five nationally in number of deer hunters.

The SKS, which Vang was carrying when he was arrested, is semiautomatic rifle that uses 7.62x39 mm ammunition, usually in magazines of 10 rounds. Semiautomatic rifles are legal for deer hunting.

According to gun-collector Web sites, the SKS is often sold as inexpensive military surplus. It has a wide range of aftermarket accessories, and can be used for home security as well as for hunting medium-size game.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shannon Prather, Alex Friedrich, Chris Niskanen, Tim Nelson and the Associated Press contributed to this report. Tom Majeski can be reached at tmajeski @pioneerpress.com or 651-228-5583.

 

[Big Daddy]

Posted on Mon, Nov. 22, 2004


BY TODD NELSON and ALEX FRIEDRICH

Pioneer Press


Hunting is a tradition many Hmong have continued to pursue since resettling here from Laos, though not always smoothly.

Some Hmong hunters in the Twin Cities say they have been targets of harassment and intimidation. Some of their white counterparts complain that the former refugees, used to unregulated hunting in their homeland, sometimes fail to comply with modern hunting regulations and wildlife management practices.

"A lot of these hunters are people who have a strong tradition in hunting," said Hmong activist Michael Yang of St. Paul, who joined friends looking for deer on his first hunting trip a few weeks ago. "That was one of the bases of survival back in the old days. You go out there in your farm fields and hunt what you need."

Hunters of all kinds expressed shock Sunday at the arrest of Chai Vang of St. Paul in shootings that killed five people and injured three during a dispute over a deer stand in western Wisconsin. The natural resources departments in Minnesota and Wisconsin, home to more than 75,000 Hmong counted in the 2000 census, have both hired Hmong conservation officers to help bridge the gap between Hmong hunting traditions and today's regulations.

Lee Pao Xiong, a Hmong activist from St. Paul, said he stopped hunting on public lands in Minnesota after an incident several years ago in which he and two friends were hunting for squirrels. Two carloads of white hunters suddenly pulled in to the spot where the three were camping and started making harassing comments. Several other Hmong hunters overheard the commotion, and the other hunters left when they realized they were outnumbered.

Michael Yang said he hears Hmong hunters talking of discrimination and taunts from other hunters. Hmong hunters have even been forced to take off their clothes at gunpoint, he said.

"Definitely, there's a lot of friction," Michael Yang said.

Other hunters say they have had problems with Hmong hunters they have encountered.

Maple Grove hunter Sandy Halvorson said some local hunters complain that Hmong hunters have come onto private property to hunt and don't understand property rights and bag limits.

"There's a problem with our system," she said, adding there should perhaps be classes to teach hunting laws and traditions to immigrants trying to obtain a license.

"There is a cultural difference between hunting in other countries and hunting in the United States," she said.

Hunters are protective of their favorite spots, said Dusty Bosteder, a hunter from Birchwood, Wis., near Rice Lake.

"I'm shocked," Bosteder said of the shootings. "Stuff like that doesn't happen in this area." Still, he said, "Around this country, it has always been territorial."

 

[Big Daddy]

Posted on Sun, Nov. 21, 2004





Five dead, 3 injured in reported hunting dispute in Wis.


Five people were fatally shot and three injured in northwestern Wisconsin after a hunter was denied permission to land and later returned with a rifle and opened fire, a television station reported.

The man, from the Twin Cities area, was arrested at about 5 p.m., Sawyer County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle told KSTP-TV of the Twin Cities.

Zeigle said the man killed five people and injured three others.

The shootings happened near Birchwood at about noon Sunday, the station reported.

The shooter was denied permission to hunt on some land, and later returned with an assault rifle and opened fire, the station reported.

? Associated Press

 

[bombercoops]

Hope 'Vang' gets all the punishment they can offer him! What drives someone to kill at will like this? Someone should have repaid the favor and put a bullet through his head! Feel bad for the families of the victims!

 

[Dogfish]

just saw a police news confrence.appears as as many as five were unarmed,and two shot off atv's.one of the dead include's a 27 year old woman.they better get this guy to a big city fast before local justice takes action.

looks as though the three wounded will live.

 

[Mjolnir]

when i see these things the first thing i think of is someone under the influence. being a redneck, i've met many people who think booze and weapons are no big deal. this almost sounds like some speed could be involved. those freakin crack heads think nothing about being violent.

 

[THE KOD]

mj

agree with you. I can't imagine going into the woods to hunt and then going to jail for the rest of my life. Over a tree stand.

We havnt heard what they said to Vung up in the tree. They could have threatened him, but nothing would allow him to shoot all those people.

Its crazy

 

[BBMF]

How anyone can condone this or any other type of totally senseless violence is beyond me. If you are in this country, it is your responsibility to know the law.

In addition, it doesn't matter what was said, there is no justification for shooting someone.

These days, there is such a lack of common courtesy, manners and respect. It makes me sad to see the way our country is headed.

 

[fletcher]

I damn sure would not be out hunting with someone who has been drinking, that is stupid as hell.

 

[BahamaMama]

a sixth victim just died

 

[oldschoolcapper]

fletch,

The sks is somewhat popular for hunting deer in the South. I have used one before. I have many friends that use them also. It is a Chinese assault rifle, but it is much cheaper than a 30-06 rifle. There are so many automatic and semi-automatic rifles out there today that it is very easy for some nuts to get them and do a lot of damage very quickly.


osc

 

[Big Daddy]

More information.



Posted on Mon, Nov. 22, 2004




Names of 5 killed in shooting spree released

TIM NELSON AND KEVIN HARTER

Pioneer Press


METEOR TOWNSHIP, Wis. ? The man suspected of shooting eight Wisconsin hunters methodically pursued his victims, authorities said today, noting that the bodies of four of the five who died were found relatively close together.
Those killed were identified today as Robert Crotteau, 42; his 20-year-old son, Joey Crotteau; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; and Jessica Willers, 27. Some were shot more than once.

All five victims were from the Rice Lake area and were dead when officers arrived to the scene near the Town of Meteor in southwestern Sawyer County, investigators said. Authorities found two bodies near each other and the others were scattered over 100 yards.

While the crime scene's large area made the job of collecting possible physical evidence all the more difficult, Sawyer County Sheriff James Meier said unraveling the reasons why suspect Chai Soua Vang allegedly opened fire on eight hunters after being confronted for being in their deer stand were still perplexing.

"It makes no sense," the sheriff said. Vang, he said, "speaks fluent English. He's educated. He's an American citizen."

Meanwhile, Vang's younger brother arrived in the county seat of Hayward with hopes of getting in to see his jailed sibling. Sang Vang, 32, said his 36-year-old brother was an occasional hunter and he couldn't believe he could be involved in such a violent outburst.

"I don't know what to think. I'm shocked," said Sang Vang. He said that when his mother called him to tell him about his brother's arrest, he thought it was a dream. "I just wanted to wake up. I'm still so very shocked."

Vang said his brother came to this country from their native Laos in 1980. He's a truck driver, is married and has six children. He said he was "a good family man."

"He's always been a nice brother to me," he said. "I don't know what happened."

Doctors in nearby Rice Lake allowed themselves some optimism over the chances of the three survivors of Sunday's deer hunter shootings.

Surgeon Lynn Koob, at the Lakeview Medical Center, said the most seriously injured of the survivors ? Dennis Drew, 55 ? had been in critical condition since he was brought to the hospital Sunday afternoon, and remained in the hospital's intensive care unit.

"It does seem that he is stabilizing," Koob said. The bullet that wounded Drew entered his left side below the ribs and exited the other side, and Koob said "ranks right up there with the most serious I have ever seen."

Drew's brother-in-law, Lauren Hesebeck, 48, of Rice Lake, was reported in serious condition with a gunshot wound to his left shoulder. The third survivor, Terry Willers, 47, also of Rice Lake, was shot in the neck and was flown to a hospital in Marshfield, Wis., where he was "doing well," Koob said.

Koob said that it appeared that all three had been wounded by a "high powered weapon" fired from "reasonably close range," by the appearances of their injuries. Authorities say Vang was armed with a SKS semiautomatic rifle. Such rifles are legal for deer hunting in Wisconsin.

Authorities were still trying to figure out what happened. They said that it appeared Vang had gone hunting ? his brother claimed he was with some other people ? and Vang somehow got lost. He asked directions from a couple of other hunters he came across, the sheriff said.

According to early reports, Vang found a deer stand and climbed into it. But the stand was on private property, and a couple of members of a hunting party who were on the land properly, and who had been staying in a nearby cabin, approached him and asked him to leave.

Wisconsin requires deer hunters to display their license number on their backs. One of the hunters noted the stranger's deer license number and etched it into the dust of his all-terrain vehicle so the interloper could be reported to the Department of Natural Resources later.

Vang climbed down from the stand, walked a short distance, then turned and opened fire on the others, authorities said they were told. Of the eight who were shot, only one was carrying a weapon at the time of the shooting; authorities said it was unclear if any of the other hunters also fired.

The shootings happened between 12:15 p.m. and 12:30 p.m., Meier said. Vang is said to have gone back into the woods and again gotten lost. Two other hunters helped him find his way to a road, and he was later apprehended by a state game warden who recognized his deer license number as the one being sought in the shootings.

Vang is in the Sawyer County Jail in Hayward. There may be a court hearing for him Tuesday to see if there is probable cause to continue holding him.

 

[Big Daddy]

Barron County Sheriff Tom Richie said in Rice Lake this morning that investigators from Sawyer County had been to the hospital to interview the injured men and that authorities from Washburn County and the state's Division of Criminal Investigation were also working on the case.

This morning, the community of Rice Lake was reeling from the shootings.

The victims of the shooting were "all very well known and respected members of our community," the sheriff said. Hospital officials noted that some of the staff treating the victims were related to hunters in the same party.

"It has been a very hard time," Koob said at the news conference.

Ned Wolf, administrator of the Lakeview Medical Center, said that the hospital had actually been locked down on Sunday night to prevent a crush of well-wishers from bothering the families.

He also released a statement from the families involved: "We are grieving for our friends who were tragically killed yesterday, for their families and our family members in the hospital. Our thoughts and prayers are extended to the other families involved in this tragedy."

Wolf said that a fund had been established for the dead and injured at the Dairy State Bank in Rice Lake. Donations can be sent to the bank, at 16 S. Main St., Rice Lake, Wis., 54868.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

[Oak3]

Dennis Drew ,who was in intensive care, did not make it.

 

[SixFive]

How old is this Vang fellow? I can already predict his defense. Temporary insanity brought on by memories of the Vietnam "conflict". Lots of white men carrying guns yelling, "Get the FOCK out of that tree you slant-eyed GOOK!" Vang's lawyers will also claim the weapons of the men were pointed at him and he was defending himself. He'll probably win too. He didn't even try to hide his crime; he even still had his hunter number on his back and his unloaded gun! If the crime were really thought out by someone sane, he would have ripped off his hunter orange, ditched his gun, and torn that number to shreds.

Despicable act for sure, but I'm not naive enough to think that this will be a slam dunk case for the prosecution. No way the trial will be held there locally either, it will probably go several hours away to metropolitan Milwaukee.

My father-in-law was a Vietnam vet (very mentally scarred) from Wisconsin. I heard him lament the fact several times that the "gooks" as he called them had invaded Wisconsin, and he still hated them with a passion. I think it would be VERY easy for a lawyer to prove racism in Wisconsin against Vietnamese people because I'm sure my f.i.l. was not the only person who felt that way.

As far as drunk/high hunters, I hear stories of that around here quite often, and thankfully, I've never encountered it. An acquaintance was just recounting a story to me last week of a meth head 18 year old during muzzleloader season. The kid was on his property trespassing, stumbling around, and toting a loaded, COCKED, and ready to fire muzzleloader. The acquaintance was able to disarm him and send him on his way, but scary stuff like that goes on. I've never heard of a story like this one in Wisconsin; usually the drunk/high ones around here shoot their buddies or the neighbor's cow.