These are the people that we need to protect from "excessive"taxes?

[Terryray]

I have a problem with punishing someone for being successful

Do we have any idea how much the tax will go up on over 250K/year incomes? 50% or 2-3% big difference

No one is sure about total new tax burden (shifting it to the richer folks) from Obama's proposal because he's just given an "outline". Many details of it we won't seen until April.

basically seems to be restoring tax rates for top 2% earners to 2000 levels (before the Bush Tax cuts) and deduction schedules from mid-90s. With a few more added parts. For those top 2% it will feel like living in tax environment pre-Bush.

and Congress, of course, will change things in it. For example, Sen. Max Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, is already on record as being very cool toward the cap on mortgage deductions.

but the economy obviously won't grow as well as before when the most productive folks in America get saddled with buncha new taxes (especially the capital gains tax increase--an obvious dis-incentive to grow. Even European countries realize this and have lower capital-gains taxes than US...tho Obama is proposing to eliminate the capital gains tax for small businesses)

and it certainly isn't the healthiest thing for our democracy to have a majority of citizens contributing so little to the cost of goverment and yet enjoying some many of it's benefits.

 

[hedgehog]

. . . or he doesn't want to give it to his son.

that is not going to be a problem, I was just trying to tell him to hide some from the liberals

 

[hedgehog]

No one is sure about total new tax burden (shifting it to the richer folks) from Obama's proposal because he's just given an "outline". Many details of it we won't seen until April.

basically seems to be restoring tax rates for top 2% earners to 2000 levels (before the Bush Tax cuts) and deduction schedules from mid-90s. With a few more added parts. For those top 2% it will feel like living in tax environment pre-Bush.

and Congress, of course, will change things in it. For example, Sen. Max Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, is already on record as being very cool toward the cap on mortgage deductions.

but the economy obviously won't grow as well as before when the most productive folks in America get saddled with buncha new taxes (especially the capital gains tax increase--an obvious dis-incentive to grow. Even European countries realize this and have lower capital-gains taxes than US...tho Obama is proposing to eliminate the capital gains tax for small businesses)

and it certainly isn't the healthiest thing for our democracy to have a majority of citizens contributing so little to the cost of goverment and yet enjoying some many of it's benefits.

Hopefully we only have 4 years of Obama and he screws up so bad we will elect someone with conservative principles in 2012, this is no way to grow an economy that is so bad right now, by taxing the rich, so to speak. Don't you think that right before the new tax increases all the people who have capital gains will take most of their money out of the market, assuming it goes up in the next two years?

 

[The Sponge]

but the economy obviously won't grow as well as before when the most productive folks in America get saddled with buncha new taxes .

i just get a big kick out of this line every time i see it. thanks for the laugh:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

 

[THE KOD]

Hopefully we only have 4 years of Obama and he screws up so bad we will elect someone with conservative principles in 2012, ?

................................................................

I can see Russia from my house

:142smilie :142smilie

Look Trig, see Russia

 

[THE KOD]

that is not going to be a problem, I was just trying to tell him to hide some from the liberals

:142smilie :142smilie

 

[THE KOD]

and it certainly isn't the healthiest thing for our democracy to have a majority of citizens contributing so little to the cost of goverment and yet enjoying some many of it's benefits.

.................................................................

its about time these millionaire rich bastids paid tax

they have been so used to tax shelters and hiring people so they dont have to pay anything with loopholes etc.

Make them pay until it hurts.

they aint leaving the country anytime soon.

except maybe to hide some more of their millions untaxed.

 

[THE KOD]

We can take this country back. All we need is to nominate the right candidate," he said.

The speech was the culmination of an event that featured often fiery speeches by some of the top names of the conservative movement and the Republican party, including former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, former GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee and conservative commentator Ann Coulter.:scared

Earlier Saturday, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, another failed GOP candidate, won his third straight presidential straw poll at the annual conference, edging out Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, Rep. Ron Paul and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. Florida Gov. Charlie Crist, who expressed support for President Obama's $787 economic stimulus plan, finished last of the 10 named choices.

The straw poll is not binding. Romney won last year by 35 percent over Sen. John McCain, Huckabee and Paul, though McCain later was nominated by the GOP.
...............................................................

holy shit the right wingers are screwed with that bunch :142smilie \

Rush looks like death warmed over twice. I guess a overweight oxycontin millionaire is all thats available :violin:

 

[THE KOD]

Coulter has a long history of making controversial comments about politicians. Following her appearance at the 2007 CPAC, multiple companies asked to pull their ads from her Web site after she used what some observers called an anti-gay slur to describe then-Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards.

She was also at odds with Sen. John McCain during the campaign season, saying "John McCain is not only bad for Republicanism, which he definitely is ? he is bad for the country."
.................................................................

some blog responses to her comedy act at CPAC


GOP-fellas February 28th, 2009 9:19 pm ET

The GOP has become the Limbaugh-Coulter Party, and will continue to drive decent, non-vitriolic conservatives from the GOP ranks.

Here's to the suicide of the GOP! (clink).


Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh are perfect examples of why the Republican party is doomed for the same fate as the Whig party of the 1800s.

Mark my word, the Repblican party will not exist in 50 years.


Ryan February 28th, 2009 9:13 pm ET

I just really don't understand what we're doing ? I'm no Democrat now but this is crazy. When Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh are becoming the voice of a party then we're in deep sh**:142smilie


the judge February 28th, 2009 9:12 pm ET

There is nothing comedic about this vicious, self-promoting, demagogue. She is a dangerous right-winger who has received far too much attention by the media. Were she given the silent treatment , the soap box she loves to stand on would eventually turn into sawdust, which incidentally is the garbage she peddles .


Anne and Rush are Republican shills and conservative only when it is convenient or self serving.:SIB


WHAT A JOKE!!!!!! February 28th, 2009 9:12 pm ET

KEEP IT UP?THIS IS WHAT'S GONNA GET OBAMA HIS 2ND TERM!!!!! WE LOVE U ANN!!! HA HA HA AH

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012


Now that comment about "Rush Limprick" was priceless.

The GOP needs to take a step back and look at the guy who sabotaged McCain and see how he has managed the GOP party. A bunch of dittoheads trying to run this country.

Does this CPAC qualify as a Hate Group???:scared


It sure is a sad day for republicans when Ann Coulter along with Rush Limbaugh are the face of the GOP. It is no wonder that your party is disintegrading right in front of your faces. JVL:142smilie


JennyO February 28th, 2009 9:09 pm ET

Where was this "guard dog" for the past 8 years? Smuggling Viagra? This Rush/Coulter Republikkkan tea party is very entertaining. At least it would be if I weren't faced with the worry of losing my job. They are predicting that 2 million+ here in NYC are in danger of losing their jobs. I wish these people would just move to Russia. That corrupt, free market nightmare is exactly what they want for this country.


barry February 28th, 2009 9:09 pm ET

anyone who takes acoulter seriously is a bigger fool than she is?she is (getting) old, very tired, sooo anorexic with a very poorly done breast enhancement?she needs to be totally ignored


Adrian Veidt February 28th, 2009 9:08 pm ET

This is excellent. The more the GOP snuggles up with hateful people like Coulter and self-important blowhards like Rush, the more elections they'll lose.
:00hour

David Newport, OR February 28th, 2009 9:07 pm ET

perfect choices for leadership?Coulter, Limbaugh, Steele, Palin, Jindal, Joe the Plumber. Keep up the good work GOP (fools).:nono:


Oh boy - Ann Coulter spinning the same song and dance - she should be the woman (girlfriend) Rush is looking for?.I think she could slide down that pole quite nicely, being the snake that she is?.makes me sick?why doesn't she practice what she preaches?? Oh, I know why - she is a Republican. Yuk.


When Coulter and Limbaugh mate; their hate spewing spawn can come forward and lead the ?Got nO Plan? party to another generation of irrelevance.


Coulter's elitist drivel is the lowest. The cries of the wealthy and priveliged. They have no sympathy for people out there hurting. They want power. They actually believe that they were born to govern over us all; as they pilfer the coffers. Conservative IDIOTS!!!


Despite the comments that we are reading here, Coulter and Limbaugh are perfect examples of why this country is where it is now. Since 1981 a large group of citizens have listened to this carefully disguised hate speech and propoganda and BELIEVED it! The fact that I came home on a beautiful saturday afternoon to see an exclusive and lengthy live broadcast of Limbaugh's speech on CNN made me wonder if CNN has lost what was left of its journalistic creed. As to Coulter and Limbaugh, they can thank me for my years of service defending their right to free speech by KISSING MY LIBERAL A$$. CNN you need to decide if you are part of the problem or part of the solution, it only takes a few seconds.


ann coulter makes me want to vomit.


I love this country and I pray that its problems can and will be solved. I'm not the smartest person in America but I do know that if all I did was stand around and bash the President, there would be that much less hope for OUR recovery. I implore everyone, including Ann Coulter, to become part of the solution rather than continuing to be part of the problem!


Ohh lord, Ann Coulter, huh? I thought she was writing books why teenage pregnancy is the world's fault, or why being single is a sin?I'll make that guy cry?I'm sorry, meant woman, LOL!!


Ann Coulter? She's still in the news? She's so fifteen minutes ago.


Ann Coulter + Rush + Palin = NO MORE REPUBLICANS



FIRST THERE IS RUSH LIMBAUGH WONDERING WHY WOMEN
DO NOT LIKE HIM. WELL, THAT IS NOT HARD TO FIGURE
OUT. HE IS A POMPOUS A__. HE PROCLAIMS TO BE
KNOWLEDGEABLE, BUT HE IS ACTUALLY NOT. WHAT IS
THERE TO WONDER ABOUT? THEN ANN COLTER. WELL,
SHE IS NO DIFFERENT THAN RUSH. SHE IS TRULY AN
AIRHEAD WHO HAS DISCOVERED A GREAT WAY TO MAKE
MONEY, AND SHE GOES FORTH LIKE A BULL IN A
CHINA CLOSET. THEY BOTH PLAY TO THE IGNORANT AND
THE POORLY INFORMED. SUCH IS LIFE??????.


mary,florida February 28th, 2009 8:56 pm ET

the Queen of the Republican whack pack.Howard Stern should be jealous.


Rand Dewu February 28th, 2009 8:56 pm ET

Conservatives, please continue to idolize Coulter and Limbaugh. This makes more people turn liberal.


anonymous February 28th, 2009 8:56 pm ET

wow repuclicans never deserve to be elected if they follow jerks like anne coulter and rush limbaugh


manemang February 28th, 2009 8:56 pm ET

When Obama is done educating the nascar crowd and the gang bangers, Rush and his ilk will have no imaginary 20-million listeners to yap to. Are the conservatives scared of the erosion of illiteracy in America when Obama is done? of course otherwise explain to me how a normal human being who would vote against his interest because some guy is sitting on millions of dollars while encouraging him to vote against his healthcare and education.


Bill_ MA February 28th, 2009 8:55 pm ET

Republicans are one sorry group of losers.


Scot February 28th, 2009 8:55 pm ET

Do you think Limbaugh is banging Coultier?


mike February 28th, 2009 8:54 pm ET

Ann Coulter and Sarah Palin ????..oh my!!!

They need to have a nice hair pulling fight to see who gets to sleep with Rush Limebaugh.

Not one conservative has come up with one single CONSTRUCTIVE idea. Newt Gingrich started all this divisiveness?..barf!!!!!!!!!!!


Derrick February 28th, 2009 8:54 pm ET

At what point will she/he/ Ann complete the transistion from male to female? It's amazing what science can do these days.


da February 28th, 2009 8:53 pm ET

She makes me sick, rush makes me sick all the right wing nuts make me sick. Hey, I have an idea why don't the GOP all move to the south and have there own country, and see who gets further. Since we as a country can never be united with them around, they are so against growth and progress and live in the past. They don't even want to try to work with Obama. As long as they listen to Ann and rush I do not have an ounce respect for any of them and will never support any of them.


Mike February 28th, 2009 8:52 pm ET

Coulter would be much better in a porn flick.


joan February 28th, 2009 8:52 pm ET

CPAC.. this is an embarrasement not only to politics, but to Amercia and what it stands for. What rug are these people crawling out from under? Is this the best they have to offer. Well?they can only go up from here. Because they are at the scummiest bottom. What a bunch of rogues and hate mongers! America, pray.
This is its own movie of dumb and dumber being played out. And really dumb people are applauding!


Cathleen in St. Louis February 28th, 2009 8:52 pm ET

Every breathe she takes is a waste of oxygen. What a twit.


Jealous folks February 28th, 2009 8:51 pm ET

The Chief Priest (Rush Limbaugh) and the Scribes (Ann Coulter) said Jesus Christ did all his good works through the Devil. They also like to quote scripture, make money from the suffering of the meek and poor. Barack Obama is no messiah? nor is he trying to be. But just remember what it says in the Good Book? good will always prevail or evil.


JulesT February 28th, 2009 8:51 pm ET

Clearly, she is a very angry and nasty person, who truly has no real knowledge or patriotism. She and Mitt should get together, they would love nothing more than to see our new administration fail., which in turn will see us all fail. It is bad enough the nastiness we had to put up with during the election. It is so tiresome and pathetic, that she, McCain, Romney and the majority of republicans will stop at nothing to continue see ruins in our American families. they should all be ashamed of themselves.


Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh scare me. It is easy to criticize when you are sitting on the sidelines. President Obama needs our prayers and I for one am praying that he makes the right decisions smart and wise.


A ridiculous idiot of a person who thinks she is so powerful, and really is sickening. NORMAL PEOPLE CANNOT STAND HER !!!! ARE YOU LISTENING????
Another situation that is getting a little ridiculous is the fact that CNN is always showing all the talk from the Repubs. and how they knock almost everything Pres. Obama does or says or his administration comes up with, yet you never have your newsmen come up with at least someone following up with possibly "IT IS A GOOD IDEA" instead CNN just continuing to show all the bad talk about Obama. I do not believe CNN is being bias at all, I am just saying when something that is said that leaves the listener wondering "IS THIS REPUBLICAN RIGHT OR WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK" THIS IS WHERE I BELIEVE CNN SHOULD HAVE POSSIBLY SOMEONE TRY TO EXPLAIN EASILY WHAT AND WHY THE DECISION OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WAS MADE. Just a thought??..

 

[THE KOD]

It is that level of hypocrisy that has the rest of the country trying seriously to find solutions. Conservatives imagine that they live in a different world then the rest of us. They look to icons like Rush Limbaugh who makes 36 million dollars a year and think that Rush cares about them. They do not understand that issues don't have easy answers. I imagine that Joyce is worried that her taxes will be raised because Rush tells her that the is the ultimate goals of liberals. Conservative leaders care about themselves That is why Bush failed. He did what conservatives try to do when the get power?.. "Get rich and stay rich."

.........................................................

exactly

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Wayne, the tax free gift you mentioned - is it purely tax free, meaning the recipient has no tax on it, nor any of the proceeds from it? Could they just turn around and re-gift the same to you (which I would doubt, but)? Is this a pre-tax scenario? Sounds like an interesting idea to me.

Yes Chad as Dawgball said recipient proceeds are tax free and most of the time it is a scenerio like in Dawgs case that grandparents or parents gift grandchildren or children. If their estate is large enough to have estate taxes it is double win situation--it alows parents to remove assets that at one time (and will be here again in short order)would be taxed by gov @ 55% rate. However that is why they have yearly limits so they can't remove large sums from taxable situation to gifting tax free.
You can also compound this effect--have had several clients that will gift max each year to children who in turn set up irrevocable life insurance trust and use gift to fund life policy parent--and death benefit is tax free.
Example Have one client-Margie that gifted $10,000 to each of 4 children starting in 1996-her age then was 65--the policy has a little over 2 mill death benefit--she is now 78-premiums have been $520,000. If she lives to 91 premiums paid will be double that but still much less than death benefit--and gov won't be taking 1/2 of it.

While this is common occurance--parent gifting children--it can work the other way. Suppose the children have accumulated the money and parents assets are not that great to trigger estate taxes--the child can gift the parents and remove taxable assets and inheirit them back tax free or use the life insurance angle and compound return--again tax free.
In 2009 you can have estate of 3.5 million--anything above that the gov gets 45 cents on the dollar--so things are much better than they were 10 years ago--but expect that to change soon.
Also important to note if both parents are alive they could set up an AB trust and each get 3.5 million credit--effectively doubling amount before estate taxes are levied.

If didn't cover what you were looking for--let me know and I'll send you some links that cover it.

 

[Terryray]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryray


but the economy obviously won't grow as well as before when the most productive folks in America get saddled with buncha new taxes .


i just get a big kick out of this line every time i see it. thanks for the laugh

These rich taxpayers (who pay tons of taxes) have the highest savings and investment rates. The income they make is really investment capital--the start up capital for many new businesses, vitally important for innovation in the economy, and a huge source of jobs for many millions of your lower income buddies. It is stupid for any new tax policy to hurt the geese that lay these golden eggs.

That's the reality, I know it's hard to take.

You like jobs, but dislike the folks who provide the capital which creates them. You like productivity, but want to punish the investors who are crucial to increasing productivity. You like folks getting ahead, but hate the rich.

 

[THE KOD]

These rich taxpayers (who pay tons of taxes) have the highest savings and investment rates. The income they make is really investment capital--the start up capital for many new businesses, vitally important for innovation in the economy, .

...............................................................

have to call bullshit on that TRAY

the income they make goes into buying toys , boats, jewelry, houses that no one else could ever afford.

Squeeze their rich nuts until it hurts.

Make them pay what they have been stealing from America for the past 20 years.

 

[The Sponge]

These rich taxpayers (who pay tons of taxes) have the highest savings and investment rates. The income they make is really investment capital--the start up capital for many new businesses, vitally important for innovation in the economy, and a huge source of jobs for many millions of your lower income buddies. It is stupid for any new tax policy to hurt the geese that lay these golden eggs.

That's the reality, I know it's hard to take.

You like jobs, but dislike the folks who provide the capital which creates them. You like productivity, but want to punish the investors who are crucial to increasing productivity. You like folks getting ahead, but hate the rich.

No that isnt my stance. I have a buddy that will be worth about 5 mil when his mother dies. His father was a doctor and would roll over in his grave to see how his son lives. He himself calls himself a an underacheiver. the bottom line is that when his mom dies he will be loaded. U know how many people there are like this? Hitting the genetic lottery? You make it seem like everyone with big money somehow are successful. All u right wingers do. You got guys making billions in Iraq because they have an in with the president. A chance most people would never get because of no bid contracts. Are these success stories to? Where u think all that money will go? It will obviously go to their familes. All this dirty money will go to college educations, houses, business etc. This isnt a success story this is a jack. Same with the golden Parachute thieves. This isnt sucess stories. Its another crop of theives that will be rich. Now if u are talking about the guy who was broke and made something of himself then i am right with ya but stop acting like every single person who has money is a success story. If being a bum waiting for ur mom to pass away to get rich qualifies a person to be a success story then so be it. To me he is just a leach off of his parents and he would say it himself. There is probably 1 out of hundred real success stories in this country and then there are the others who ride off the back of inheritance which they didn't accumulate, but will fortunately have a much better chance to succeed then people who were not a part of a genetic lottery.

 

[THE KOD]

Sponge

totally agree

you knocked that one out of the park.

TRay is clueless

 

[THE KOD]

Obama challenges lobbyists to legislative duel
By CHARLES BABINGTON
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON ? President Barack Obama challenged the nation's vested interests to a legislative duel Saturday, saying he will fight to change health care, energy and education in dramatic ways that will upset the status quo.

"The system we have now might work for the powerful and well-connected interests that have run Washington for far too long," Obama said in his weekly radio and video address. "But I don't. I work for the American people."

He said the ambitious budget plan he presented Thursday will help millions of people, but only if Congress overcomes resistance from deep-pocket lobbies.

"I know these steps won't sit well with the special interests and lobbyists who are invested in the old way of doing business, and I know they're gearing up for a fight," Obama said, using tough-guy language reminiscent of his predecessor, George W. Bush. "My message to them is this: So am I."

The bring-it-on tone underscored Obama's combative side as he prepares for a drawn-out battle over his tax and spending proposals. Sometimes he uses more conciliatory language and stresses the need for bipartisanship. Often he favors lofty, inspirational phrases.

On Saturday, he was a full-throated populist, casting himself as the people's champion confronting special interest groups that care more about themselves and the wealthy than about the average American.

Some analysts say Obama's proposals are almost radical. But he said all of them were included in his campaign promises. "It is the change the American people voted for in November," he said.

Nonetheless, he said, well-financed interest groups will fight back furiously.

Insurance companies will dislike having "to bid competitively to continue offering Medicare coverage, but that's how we'll help preserve and protect Medicare and lower health care costs," the president said. "I know that banks and big student lenders won't like the idea that we're ending their huge taxpayer subsidies, but that's how we'll save taxpayers nearly $50 billion and make college more affordable. I know that oil and gas companies won't like us ending nearly $30 billion in tax breaks, but that's how we'll help fund a renewable energy economy."

Passing the budget, even with a Democratic-controlled Congress, "won't be easy," Obama said. "Because it represents real and dramatic change, it also represents a threat to the status quo in Washington."

"We have done more in these past 30 days to bring about progressive change than we have in the past many years," the president in remarks the White House released in advance. "We are closing the gap between the nation we are and the nation we can be by implementing policies that will speed our recovery and build a foundation for lasting prosperity and opportunity."

Congressional Republicans continued to bash Obama's spending proposals and his projection of a $1.75 trillion deficit this year.

Almost every day brings another "multibillion-dollar government spending plan being proposed or even worse, passed," said Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C., who gave the GOP's weekly address.

He said Obama is pushing "the single largest increase in federal spending in the history of the United States, while driving the deficit to levels that were once thought impossible."

..................................................................

Change we can believe in !

:00hour :00hour

 

[Terryray]

you two guys are a gas! :142smilie

"Households in the top quintile, 77% of which had two or more income earners....Households in the lowest quintile had incomes less than $19,178 and the majority had no income earner."

Hard working folks earning big money. as I wrote "That's the reality, I know it's hard to take." :SIB

And more importantly, income mobility between income quintiles is vast in the US. For example, Treasury Dept reported (warning pdf) that 58% of 1996 households in poorest 20% moved up to higher level by 2005 (25% into middle or higher income groups)---and 57% of households in top 1% moved to a lower income group.

no doubt this country has big inequalities, but when you see (now and historically) how much folks do work, study and earn their way to success--and so many wealthy folk who got to top don't stay there---the number of golden parahcuters and underachievers inheriting is quite small (tho most all those folks do save and invest too, and spending on yachts and jewels employs more than other millionaires, I might add)

"That's the reality, I know it's hard to take" :sadwave:

 

[THE KOD]

Gates says Obama more 'analytical' than Bush
Posted: 11:14 AM ET

President Obama is more analytical than his predecessor, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday.
(CNN) ? President Obama is more analytical than his predecessor, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday.

Gates, the only Cabinet holdover from the Bush administration, initially paused when asked what the difference is between working with President Obama and President Bush.

"President Obama is somewhat more analytical, and he makes sure he hears from everybody in the room on an issue. And if they don't speak up, he calls on them," Gates said on NBC's Meet the Press.

"President Bush was interested in hearing different points of view but didn't go out of his way to make sure everybody spoke if they hadn't spoken up before," he added.
.......................................................

:scared

 

[THE KOD]

February 24, 2009
Gibbs: Obama puts new presidential helicopters on hold
Posted: 12:20 PM ET

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Tuesday that the President has put on hold an order for a new fleet of presidential helicopters orginally ordered by the previous administration.
WASHINGTON (CNN) ? President Barack Obama put on hold an order for a fleet of new helicopters that will cost at least $11 billion, his spokesman told CNN Tuesday.

"The president talked to the secretary of defense, and I think as he said yesterday to Sen. (John) McCain, we don't need any new helicopters at the White House," Robert Gibbs said on CNN's "American Morning."

Asked if that meant the order was being put on hold, Gibbs said: "That's exactly what he talked to the secretary about.":00hour

McCain, the Arizona Republican who was Obama's rival for the White House in last year's election, questioned the president about the cost of the new helicopter fleet on Monday.

"Your (proposed new) helicopter is now going to cost as much as Air Force One," the presidential airplane, McCain said. "I don't think that there's any more graphic demonstration of how good ideas ? have cost taxpayers an enormous amount of money."

The price tag for the proposed new fleet of 28 helicopters has virtually doubled to more than $11 billion over the last six years. Each helicopter in the fleet would reportedly cost around $400 million.

President Bush put in the order for new high-security presidential helicopters in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.

The president's helicopter is known as Marine One when he is flying on it.

Obama suggested Monday he would put the order on hold.

"I've already talked to (Defense Secretary Robert) Gates about a thorough review of the helicopter situation. The helicopter I have now seems perfectly adequate to me," a smiling Obama said to a room of laughing congressional, corporate and community leaders.

"I think it is ? an example of the procurement process gone amuck, and we're going to have to fix it," he added.
..................................................................

I guarantee if Palin / McCain had won office they would have these new helicoptors as a number 1 priority. you know I know the American people know it.

Change we can believe in !:00hour

 

[Chadman]

I have a hard time with a lot of the generalities that are tossed around here, and elsewhere. I don't think necessarily that hard work is a pure measure of financial success, although conservatives of course tie in high incomes with hard work. It makes their situation sound much better in an argument, no doubt. Many very hard working and people who studied very hard (and worked to pay for their schooling) turned to the academic world, to non-profit related endeavors, or don't value making a ton of money in their lives. To somehow say that these people are not as hard working as others who make more money just is not fair. But conservatives make the analogy in nearly every argument - here included.

The one thing I would suggest would guarantee someone of probable future financial success (and then to be labeled a hard worker...) is to be born into a positive financial environment. There are far more opportunities and options for these people - some work hard, but I would argue they have to work less hard in most cases to succeed.

Another blurry area is to equate high income earners to job creation. I would submit that a large percentage of really high earners merely work for a company at a very high salary, and subsequently only REALLY care (these days) about their own position and the stock price of the company that pays them. Taking care of the stock price is the one thing that guarantees them a big salary, and they will get rid of jobs if it puts them in a better position to continue making money - or making more of it.

I am concerned about the breakout of the $250K and up some folks - many of which are small business owners. But I am not that concerned with the people above that I mentioned - who will all be fine and make money - often times at others expense - and a large percentage who work far less hard on a daily basis that a large percentage of people who aren't considered wealthy - and subsequently hard working, by many conservatives.