UFC on Versus 3: "Sanchez vs. Kampmann", March 3rd, Louisville, Kentucky

kickserv

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Jedi ain't a happy camper......



Maybe this will make ya feel better.......


Bloody Elbow scored the fight 29-28 to Diego.


Feel better:shrug:



Trust me when I tell ya there have been MMA decisions 600 times worse then that. Go watch:



Nam Phan versus Leonard Garcia

and

Hatsu Hioki versus Michihiro Omigawa



Then you'll see what a bad decision is.


There....now ya feel better.
 

The Sponge

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Welll, I don't know shit about UFC scoring and was just betting for shits and giggles. But I would say when a guy looks like he has been soul kissing a blender, he just got his ass kicked. He had one takedown he did nothing with and 2 good shots in the 2nd. Other than that Kampmann fucking destroyed him. Don't think I am off base at all, considering the crowd was definitely pro-Diego and they STILL booed the hell out of the decision.

Diego was 1 for 13 in takedowns. Shouldn't Kampmann get credit for stopping any of them :shrug:
 

The Sponge

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Sponge.....that ain't helping Jedi feel better:tongue

Ur boy Ariel and Bonner were talking with the highest of praise on how smart Kampmann and his game planning was before the fight. I thought i was hearing things and had to rewind it to hear it again. After the fight they both said the same thing :142smilie These two have lost all credibility with me. How could anyone who watches this sport say something as dumb as that? Oh and they both did say Kampmann got shafted. Bottom line once again a guy with a great chin always has a chance against most of these fighters. Kampmann wanted to slugg it lmfao. He deserved to get robbed.
 

kickserv

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My selections sucked:00x4


Thanks alot Stevenson:gf:


MMA Record (since UFC 58)
---------------------------------------------
Prop Bet 40-70
Fighter vs. Fighter 257-394
Parlays 104-168

-5.06 Joe Rogans
 

The Sponge

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11 Fights


Underdogs win 3 of em. (Sanchez, Castillo and Diabate)

Start picking who u think is gonna win and stop just picking dogs hoping a few hit. ur picks are not even worth viewing except ur parlay's
 

kickserv

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I went 2 Rogans on fave Stevenson and lost:cool:


Although my CB pick was dumb....I have always said he shouldn't be in the UFC and I picked him:facepalm:
 

The Sponge

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I went 2 Rogans on fave Stevenson and lost:cool:


Although my CB pick was dumb....I have always said he shouldn't be in the UFC and I picked him:facepalm:

Stevenson is washed up. He lost to the most overrated fighter at 155 George Sotiropoulos and hasn't recovered since. Everyone who has lost to George Sotiropoulos needs to be reevaluated cause George's chins is almost as bad as Liddel's.
 

The Sponge

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I went 2 Rogans on fave Stevenson and lost:cool:


Although my CB pick was dumb....I have always said he shouldn't be in the UFC and I picked him:facepalm:

CB is one of those fighters who lures ya in :mj07: he almost got me tonight but i just had that feeling the fuker would fall apart. Now he will win two in a row and set us up again.
 

kickserv

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BloodyElbow and MMA Mania gave the fight to Diego 29-28

fiveouncesofpain.com scored the fight a draw



Every other site gave the fight to Kampmann
 

gardenweasel

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i rewatched it.....and i think the 3rd round is why people complain so much about takedown scoring and grappling....

objectively,kampmann won the 3rd....kampmann was tired but sanchez` activity went way down in the 3rd,too...he was whiffing...and he was getting hit...looked like he might have a cracked orbital bone....

and all those knees he absorbed?...look at him...

theres a tendency to give a guy too much credit when he comes waaaay back from a real drubbing in a round...just like boxing...the fact that they make it competitive seems to sway judges...

but that`s not how you score a fight...by overcompensating...

and the takedown(one in which kampmann was on the ground for a matter of seconds without absorbing punishment) seems to have sealed the deal...and that`s just crazy.....

it was competitive in 2 and 3...i gave sanchez the 2nd clearly...

but i think he clearly lost the 3rd...

robbery?...i don`t know how to quantify that...it wasn`t as bad as phan /garcia...i think kampmann clearly won the first...and the 3rd....but i had to rewatch it to be certain...

and to be fair,the judges don`t have that luxury....i think the comeback in the second swayed them in the 3rd...they didn`t score the 3rd objectively...

just my opinion..

bellator and strikeforce on the horizon...really looking forward to evangelista/masvidal...
 
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Hashish

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Can one of you guys walk me through how you would score this fight? Like I said, I don't know much about MMA scoring.

For me, I would score it like this:

Kampmann destroys Sanchez first round: 10-8

Much more cometitive 2nd round, but I give the edge to Kampmann. He landed more shots, and I would shore it 10-9. That said, I could see it being scored a draw or giving it to Sanchez 10-9.

3rd round I would say could be scored a number of ways. I don't know how the takedown is scored? For me it was a takedown that accomplished nothing, so it shouldn't count for much. I would say the striking was fairly even, with Kampmann landing a higher percentage of shots and Diego obviously landing more shots after Kampmann broke his hand at the end. I gove it to Kampmann again 10-9, but could again see it being a draw or maybe, but BIG maybe Sanchez getting the round.

I score it 30-26 Kampmann. I can see it being scored as low as a draw, but I don't see how in the world you score it for Sanchez. Actually, I do the judges scored it 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Sanchez, but I think they scored every round wrong. I've heard some squawking about TUF winners getting preferential scoring and matchups to legitimize it as a breeding ground. After seeing the scoring of this fight, may tend to agree with that...


Like I said, I don't understand the scoring process, so please walk me through my mistakes.
 
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layinwood

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Too much to say for all the fight so I'll just concentrate on the Sanchez Kampmann fight. I thought Martin won and didn't even think it was close but I thought he did fight stupid in the 3rd so he can't say much.

IMO this fight showed a LOT of things that are wrong with MMA scoring and what I really feel could be something that will hurt it's long term growth potential. I agree with Sponge on TD defense. If I stop you 13 out of 14 times I should get credit for it. Defense is part of fighting and that's great defense. When someone takes a guy down(just like in this fight) and does nothing and the other guy gets right back up, to me that's nothing more than equivalent to a strike and a light one at that. My other big complaint is when one guy gets the other against the fence and just starts hurling throws at the guy, the guy moves his head and doesn't really get hit(maybe there are some grazes off his head) but does land 1 out of 10 thrown. It seems like he gets credit for doing something special and landing a ton of blows. I'm not sure if it's because the crowd is going crazy or what but it happens a lot. It happened in this fight and another great example is the Shogun Machida fight. Most of the punches don't land but the guys get tons of credit for all of them.

Wrestlers get too much credit for TDs. If they don't do any damage then what do they really matter. Wow, you got the guy to the ground now do some damage down there or basically you did nothing. BJJ guys don't get credit for sub attempts and a sub attempt is no different that taking someone down and doing nothing.

Last and IMO most importantly it's a FREAKING FIGHT! It's like the MVP in the NBA. There's not a set rule for who should win. Is it the best player in the NBA, is it the guy who helps his team to one of the best records or is it the guy that's the most valuable to his team overall. MMA is a fight and the guy that inflicts more damage should win(IMO). Diego got beat the hell up. Kampmann picked him apart and to me it was a beautiful display of "pure striking." He also broke Diego's face up with knees.

One last thing. The reason Kampmann will never be great is because he doesn't use his whole package. When people fight GSP they have a hard time stopping everything because he's so good at it all. You can't not worry about his striking because if you do he will light you up. But once you start worrying about his striking he shoots in for the TD and it's hard to stop because you had your hands up. I screamed at the tv several times last night for Kampmann to shoot in for the TD. He's so good at striking that he has easier opportunities to take guys down. Diego was covering up and backing up with his legs even with his upper body. It doesn't get any easier. This would also make his striking all the better because guys would have to worry about the TDs. I just don't understand Martin sometimes. He's GREAT to watch but I fell like he's my son playing a sport and just won't listen to me on how win because he just wants to have fun.
 

The Sponge

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Let me help some guys with scoring. It is just like boxing. If u are on the side of the major money ur fighter is not getting the close rounds period. that is what this sport is coming to. Vegas has their leeches right were they always end up. In control of the outcomes. Most everyone i saw bet Kampmann yet he loses a decision like this. If they had major money on Diego Kampmann would have won 30-27 on all three cards. Last UFC there was huge money bet on George Sotiropoulos. That line climb like no other i ever saw. Money was pouring in on him. Now i know he lost fair and squared but after round two somehow one judge found a way to give that round to Siver. No freakin way Siver won that round but that corrupt judge did that to make sure he protected the money hoping that if Georgy had a big round three he still wouldn't have won that fight. One day takedowns mean nothing the next day they do. That is why guys keep complaining about scoring. These judges pick and choose when to use certain criteria on a fight and now it seems that criteria always goes to the guy who has the least money bet on him. Hence the side Vegas needs to win. Sad but this wasn't the case when this sport fiirst started. Now it is.
 

The Sponge

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Sponge with his conspiracy theories again :facepalm:

Why are all the decisions going to the guy with the least amount of money bet on him in big bet fights? :shrug: Why u think Dana always complains cause he wants to use his own judges but for some reason he isn't allowed? Don't u find that strange? It is his sport why can't he controll his own sport? I will tell u why. If he controlled it Kampmann would have won and the public would have cashed. With the Vegas thieves controlling the outcomes, the bettors are always on the short side of the outcomes. Why do u think Boxing is always complaining about judging and open scoring? I have always said that Billups was a crook for the NBA. He gets traded to the knicks with Carmelo. First game against a terrible Milwaukee team they barely win but don't cover. Second game they lose to the worst team in the league in Cleveland. Third game now when the other side is bet they somehow beat the Heat in Miami :mj07: :mj07: . Cmon man how can anyone take this shit seriously. How in gods name they couldn't crushh those two shit teams but somehow find a way to beat Miami. All three wins for the book's.
 

muhr

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Can one of you guys walk me through how you would score this fight? Like I said, I don't know much about MMA scoring.

For me, I would score it like this:

Kampmann destroys Sanchez first round: 10-8

Much more cometitive 2nd round, but I give the edge to Kampmann. He landed more shots, and I would shore it 10-9. That said, I could see it being scored a draw or giving it to Sanchez 10-9.

3rd round I would say could be scored a number of ways. I don't know how the takedown is scored? For me it was a takedown that accomplished nothing, so it shouldn't count for much. I would say the striking was fairly even, with Kampmann landing a higher percentage of shots and Diego obviously landing more shots after Kampmann broke his hand at the end. I gove it to Kampmann again 10-9, but could again see it being a draw or maybe, but BIG maybe Sanchez getting the round.

I score it 30-26 Kampmann. I can see it being scored as low as a draw, but I don't see how in the world you score it for Sanchez. Actually, I do the judges scored it 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Sanchez, but I think they scored every round wrong. I've heard some squawking about TUF winners getting preferential scoring and matchups to legitimize it as a breeding ground. After seeing the scoring of this fight, may tend to agree with that...


Like I said, I don't understand the scoring process, so please walk me through my mistakes.

here's the judging criteria for the unified rules. they won't help you understand why kampmann was given the decision loss.

13:46-24A.13 Judging

(a) All bouts will be evaluated and scored by three judges.

(b) The 10-Point Must System will be the standard system of scoring a bout. Under the 10-Point Must Scoring System, 10 points must be awarded to the winner of the round and nine points or less must be awarded to the loser, except for a rare even round, which is scored (10-10).

(c) Judges shall evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense.

(d) Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear in (c) above, giving the most weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and effective aggressiveness and defense.

(e) Effective striking is judged by determining the total number of legal heavy strikes landed by a contestant.

(f) Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active, threatening guard.

(g) Fighting area control is judged by determining who is dictating the pace, location and position of the bout. Examples of factors to consider are countering a grappler?s attempt at takedown by remaining standing and legally striking ; taking down an opponent to force a ground fight; creating threatening submission attempts, passing the guard to achieve mount, and creating striking opportunities.

(h) Effective aggressiveness means moving forward and landing a legal strike.

(i) Effective defense means avoiding being struck, taken down or reversed while countering with offensive attacks.

(j) The following objective scoring criteria shall be utilized by the judges when scoring a round;

1. A round is to be scored as a 10-10 Round when both contestants appear to be fighting evenly and neither contestant shows clear dominance in a round;

2. A round is to be scored as a 10-9 Round when a contestant wins by a close margin, landing the greater number of effective legal strikes, grappling and other maneuvers;

3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.

4. A round is to be scored as a 10-7 Round when a contestant totally dominates by striking or grappling in a round.

(k) Judges shall use a sliding scale and recognize the length of time the fighters are either standing or on the ground, as follows:

1. If the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round on the canvas, then:
i. Effective grappling is weighed first; and
ii. Effective striking is then weighed

2. If the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round standing, then:
1. Effective striking is weighed first; and
2. Effective grappling is then weighed

3. If a round ends with a relatively even amount of standing and canvas fighting, striking and grappling are weighed equally.
 
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