Won't Change a Dam thing !

[LUX]

Palehose, I respect your endeavor to find some good in Islamic people, but it's a futile effort on your part. After studying the quran, it is intrinsically evident within the text that Islam is inextricably saturated with a tendency toward violence when willing submission is not granted.

There are indeed many muslims who "denounce" the violence and terrorism, but it is not sincere. It is part of the effort to placate the world and lead us into the false sense that there exists a meliorative and peaceful version of Islam. No such thing exists. Islam is a conquest.

 

[kosar]

1. We change Isamic states to democracy's and hope Islam plays a much smaller part in these peoples lives IE: stop the Clerics from making their laws and maybe they will become more passive ...dam maybe they even change the wording of the Koran like many other religions have to make it less violent ( I know this probably wont happen due to the nature of the Koran ) but they could become more pasive reguardless of the wording if they embrace democracy .

Predictably you ignored the question.

What makes the Muslims in Palestine hopeless, yet the Muslims in Iraq workable?

If you think they are going to change the Koran because Iraq turns into a peaceful democracy (which will never happen anyways), then you are in la-la land.

And palestine is already a so-called democracy. But it's hopeless? What's the deal?

Wayne and gardenweasel must have missed this thread.

GW, are these people who consider the Israel/Palestine situation hopeless, racist?

You just love calling a lot of us racist because we think Iraq is hopeless, so what about this? Or is it just because the neocons agree on this one that you give it a pass?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Should not have included all Musilims but untill one finds a a way to determine the good from the bad--and as I said no place on earth where Muslims in general exist is there not religious violence and blood shed--

Depends apon what extremes you want to take to be terrorist free--same can be said for aids and many other perils.

 

[kosar]

--and as I said no place on earth where Muslims in general exist is there not religious violence and blood shed--

Right, so why are we so arrogant to believe that we can change that in Iraq? What are we doing there?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Kuwaitt-Berain SPL - Isle of Immigrants--Jorden--ever hear of a any of these middle east coutries???

What about Lybia-Yemen-Pakistan-Saudi's--any chance they are helping with fight a little more than when Slick's agenda was shoving stogies up interns?????????

 

[kosar]

No, I do not believe those countries are being particularly helpful.

What, exactly, do you think Kuwait, Bahrain, IOI, Jordan, Libya and Yemen have done to help us?

The Saudi's pursure terrorists that do stuff in that country. Otherwise, they don't give a shit.

Pakistan arrests a few guys every now and then. We're always told that they are 'top Al-Qaeda members.'

Are you saying that because we invaded Iraq that those countries all of a sudden are extra aggressive in arresting terrorists? That's silly.

Even as you say, where there are Muslims, there will always be violence and terror. We cannot change that by being in Iraq. We can't change that, period.

 

[djv]

Guy's invading Iraq sure as hell did not bring more to our side. It might have made more enemies. In and out side Iraq.

 

[LUX]

See, Lux leans right, at least that's what i've gathered from his few posts, but he's being consistent.

Based on what I'm reading from some of the others, we may be a lot closer in our political beliefs than you think.

 

[LUX]

Things I dont agree with Bush on or Conservatives for that matter :

Everything Bush says or does domestically 90% of the time .
Abortion
Drugs ( lets face it nobody in their right mind can tell me Alcohol should be leagal and Pot Illeagal )
Our Tax System ( I want no income Tax but high sales Tax ...fairest tax possible )
thats the short list .

Ditto

 

[Palehose]

Predictably you ignored the question.

What makes the Muslims in Palestine hopeless, yet the Muslims in Iraq workable?

If you think they are going to change the Koran because Iraq turns into a peaceful democracy (which will never happen anyways), then you are in la-la land.

And palestine is already a so-called democracy. But it's hopeless? What's the deal?

Wayne and gardenweasel must have missed this thread.

GW, are these people who consider the Israel/Palestine situation hopeless, racist?

You just love calling a lot of us racist because we think Iraq is hopeless, so what about this? Or is it just because the neocons agree on this one that you give it a pass?

Kosar trying to explain something to you is like trying to explain something to a rock in fact a rock has a considerably better chance.
I am sorry you cannot comprehend the big picture and you want to pull little bits and pieces out of things to try and make it look like I am not making sense but Iraq is just the start of it. I am saying all of the Mid East needs to be changed to Democracy's and you start by putting one smack dab in the middle I am sorry you cannot comprehend this .
After the entire Mid East is pacified a bit by Democracy (maybe 50 years ?) it is possible that the people now in control of their country's could do this with the Koran there is a long history of this by multiple religions. Now the Koran will be different because it is supposed to be taken Literally and is very adamant about that right at the beginning of the Book ...unlike every other holy book which is left to interpretation for the most part anyways , but you don't know any of this. Why you consistently open your yap about things they are way beyond your comprehension I just don't know ? please do some research before speaking or just put me on ignore or something your questions are to stupid to waste my time on .

 

[IntenseOperator]

Based on what I'm reading from some of the others, we may be a lot closer in our political beliefs than you think.

Forget about anything you are actually trying to say. There is a strong effort by some here (esp the "centrists") to pidgeon hole somebody right or other. I have made this very mistake in the past myself. Guess one feels better when they compartmentalize. I would think many more would give their take on an issue or two if not for the Political Forum junkies ready to assault an opinion. Looks like an issue of insecurity.

 

[kosar]

Forget about anything you are actually trying to say. There is a strong effort by some here (esp the "centrists") to pidgeon hole somebody right or other. I have made this very mistake in the past myself. Guess one feels better when they compartmentalize. I would think many more would give their take on an issue or two if not for the Political Forum junkies ready to assault an opinion. Looks like an issue of insecurity.

I/O,

I got that impression because his entire first post in this area was the little green guy jacking off after one of smurphys post. You're right, not exactly a body of work. I still would bet that he generally leans right, even if he's against the war. Big deal! And if he leans a little or moderately right, then he is correct that we aren't that far apart.

You wanna talk about pidgeonholing? lmao

That's hilarious. Just because of my stance on this war i've been basically labeled a socialist by a lot of these guys.

I lean right on as many things as not.

So you can save the 'compartamentalizing' bullshit.

I know we all joke about the term 'centrist', but there is such a thing. A centrist has no problem having an opinion regardless of how it's perceived to be slanted towards. The people that are NOT centrists are those that NEVER or nearly never go against what they *think* they should be saying because of loyalty to whatever.

There are people on here, from both sides, that I basically can predict their exact post when I see their name as 'last posted.' I can damn sure know what side they're coming down on no matter the subject. NO MATTER WHAT SUBJECT.

How can people agree with one side 100% of the time? Is that even possible?

Yes, it's possible because they've been inculcated and they reflexively spit back a response that they see as consistent to one side.

That's stupid and a clear sign that they have lost their ability to think independently. And that's sad.

 

[Palehose]

Palehose, I respect your endeavor to find some good in Islamic people, but it's a futile effort on your part. After studying the quran, it is intrinsically evident within the text that Islam is inextricably saturated with a tendency toward violence when willing submission is not granted.

There are indeed many muslims who "denounce" the violence and terrorism, but it is not sincere. It is part of the effort to placate the world and lead us into the false sense that there exists a meliorative and peaceful version of Islam. No such thing exists. Islam is a conquest.

Lux I have read the Koran (western version compiled in English with much of the real Quran left out ) and was lucky enough to have the true Arabic Quran translated to me from Abby my friend from Jordan and that is much more violent . If ya want to get down right disgusted read the Hadith even if you can only find a watered down English version.

Abby was Muslim and is now Christian . I do believe there are many Muslims like my friend Abby who followed that religion due to complete and utter fear of what would happen if he didn't.

I believe religion is held onto and followed much closer by people that are desperate or are in dire straights. I think thats why religion in America for example is much less important in our lives ...most people in America are not in dire straights and are not desperate hence why so many here have turned away from it ..including myself . Nobody talks about religion in my area and it has really become a non factor ...nobody asks or wonders or cares what religion you are in the US .

Understand were I am going here ? Thats why I just cannot condemn 1.8 billion people to be evil I think we need to rid them of their leaders get them to be at least less non secular and let the people sort it out .

 

[Palehose]

Ditto

Carefull Lux their going to start saying I opened a 3rd account . See according to some of the genius's here I am a guy that posts here called Charles Manson . Somehow they have already forgotton that some 159,000,000 people voted against the Liberal bile party known as the Dorkocrats . :mj07:

 

[LUX]

Thanks for the feedback Intense Operator.

Kosar, I am an independent for the record.

Palehose, IMO, what we have right now is the result of years of ignorance in the conversion of many people to Islam, due to the influence of a particular sect of Muslims (the Wahhabis.) The ONLY reason they have gained so much power in Muslim countries over the years is because of money from oil. Funded partly by the wealthy Saudis, who are dominated by this sect, you have people taking power in religious schools across the world who DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO READ THE LANGUAGE of the Quran, teaching children that it says to kill jews. And a bunch of other gibberish that supports their agenda.

 

[Palehose]

Well its definitely not specific to Jews ...non believers yes . I think the same amount of years without these leaders will result in a more passive Islam regardless of whether it goes to the extent of removing the violence from the Quran .

 

[IntenseOperator]

The oddest thing is that those I think are centrists, have never had the urge or need to label themselves as such. While others stamp themselves with the label continuously as if it's some form of masturbation. Seems as if they are trying to distance themselves from something.

 

[djv]

I am still trying to distant myself for voting for Bush 1st time. He didn't fool me the second time.

 

[kosar]

The oddest thing is that those I think are centrists, have never had the urge or need to label themselves as such. While others stamp themselves with the label continuously as if it's some form of masturbastion. Seems as if they are trying to distance themselves from something.

Usually i'm just defending myself against ridiculous accusations. Your posts in this thread are a good example.

Similar to when six-five expressed amazement that I would call myself a centrist and I proceeded to list 17 high profile issues that are generally split clearly down party lines and I fell on the right 9 times and on the left 8 times. Not surprisingly, nobody responded to my post.

 

[djv]

Kosar I believe it's only way to go. I just can't close my eyes and march on like a clone. I just wish more folks would way both side of issues.