a quick poll--need some input

fatdaddycool

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http://www.911docs.net/911_press_for_truth.htm

for those of us who spend 100xs times more on gambling news and clicking for parlays, or surf for porn, or drink beer, then seeking the truth of our government ... take the time to watch this doc, maybe we will wake up to some obvious truths

peace
gregg

Dude,
Get a friggin grip. Who the hell are you to tell anyone on here what the hell they spend their time on or what they should believe. Just because someone doesn't believe that Logan's Run actually happened and that the fuhkin government is behind everything they are uneducated. I will take that pepsi challenge with you anytime chief. I will be so fuhking more than happy to compare resumes with you and who is educated in all areas rather than stupid unrealistic unproven conspiracy theories. What is worse is that you are trying to blame the put purchases on some foresight by in the know investors. Are you that naive? Could you possibly be any more insulting to the intelligent factor of this society THAT HAD FUHKING FAMILY IN THE VERY AIRPLANE YOU SPEAK OF? Hey pt1, did it ever occur to you to check what happened the days leading up to those put purchases, well lets look. On September 3rd, United announced further maintenance closures and layoffs and the arbitration case concerning layoffs at Northwest, United and Alaska Air were all upheld on the fourth, due to that very ruling several carriers announced cutbacks which created a spike in put purchases. duh.........secondly on the 6th Don Carty announced planned bonuses shortly after declaring no profit sharing whereupon AA employees all entered into concessionary agreements by March of the following year. This topic is ridiculous and only the weak minded would believe anything so overwhelmingly disproved and don't ever insult my intelligence again with asinine rhetoric. You want a conspiracy, heres one for you find out who stole your ability to think clearly. My God I hate people that think there is always something more to the story. You want more move to the Gaza strip you will see plenty of it and I guarantee you won't see any janitors hiding explosives on midnight shift. Do you have any idea how long it would take to rig those building for demolition? Not to mention the incredible amount of wiring required that would have to be hidden? Do you even ask yourself any questions whatsoever? Sorry pal, no mercy on this one. That is just incredibly immature and asinine and irresponsible. What an insult to the true losers in this whole thing. What an incredible insult. Maybe you should find another country. I truly think that would be best, I hate traitors. What you aren't a traitor? Hey no worries, it's just a theory.......

Hope this helps,
FDC


Oh yeah................peace............how did I know that would be your closing..........how ironic.
 
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fletcher

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will check it out thur before i go to watch the fiba games, saw usa just roll tonight, from here till sunday going to watch all the games. Like i said team usa looked great tonight, you would enjoy the games.

have a good night

Eric
 

pt1gard

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nice ad hominem, fatdaddy ... you sound entirely too bitter, but like voltaire said, 'bring it on, baby :00hour

so since you have all the answers, why didnt you answer some of the others i postulated, you just attacked me, not all of questions .... if you are gonna go berserk, then address them all ... you sound a lil too republican and full of fear of searching for anything outside what you accept as fact, which is ever changing ... how much have you read on the topic ...

'more to the story,' what have you actually ferreted; theres tons of information out there, ask the 4 new jersey wives what they think, the ones who lost their husbands on 9/11 ... theyve spent a little more time studying this cocktail of lies than you or i ... your stock market rhetoric doesnt explain it all, keep reading deeper, maybe you can catch up, want a link or two

ironically, fletch didnt seem offended, he and i have been around this place for a bit... im glad to see hes open minded and not red white and blue purblind ... who said i dont like america, don't you ever see anything that you question about our government.


Already American democracy and freedom are in their last throes, hemorrhaging from years of corporatist mutilation. Elections have become a sham, a farce. Freedoms are disappearing, becoming extinct. The enemy within wishes for nothing more than an authoritarian, fascist nation, the easier to make decisions, the easier to implement their vision, the easier to control the population. The enemy within detests democracy, and this we must understand. Democracy and freedom are enemies. Ask yourself who has been the organization destroying our democracy and freedoms, our civil rights and liberties? Who has enacted Patriot Acts One and Two, who has destroyed due process, right to an attorney, habeas corpus? Who has tried to silence truth, dissent, protest and free speech? Who has made torture legal, false imprisonment necessary, confessions by torture legal and evidence concocted through hearsay or torture legal? Who has made it legal to spy on American citizens, opening our email accounts, overhearing our phone conversations, looking into our lives? It has not been the dreaded Arab evildoers. It has been the Bush administration. It has been your own government.

The truth is apparent, it can no longer be denied. The 9/11 Truth Movement thrives because it has truth and a quest for justice on its side. It has the power of the naked eye, for WTC 7 video footage cannot lie. It has physics, science, witnesses and research into government action and inaction. It has technology, experts and whistleblowers. It has honor, integrity and momentum. Of course there will always be 30 percent of the population that will never be made to believe in the criminality of its right wing heroes, even if the button for the controlled demolitions is put in front of their face. These 30 percent are sheeple, individuals comprising the army of good Americans, the most ignorant and closed minded people around. The Movement will never convince them. The challenge is reaching the millions who do have free-thinking minds, those who can put common sense and science and reason together.

The challenge ahead will not be easy, but the powerful never make it easy. They never grant the masses anything of value. We have to fight for it ourselves. Every civil liberty and right and freedom gained in the last century was achieved through the Power of the People. This Movement will be no different. Those that are our masters concede nothing, they take everything. They will throw obstacles at us, they will threaten and ridicule us, try to destroy our reputations and integrity. They will use the full power of the corporatist media to try and divide us, to divert us, to deceive us, to manipulate us. United we stand strong, divided we will fall. Strength in numbers, strength in conviction, it is time to bring these criminals and murderers to justice.


For what is braver, questioning authority or following it? What is more convenient, thinking for oneself or believing only what television wants you to believe? Who is more a patriot, the person who challenges the blatant lies of leaders in times of trouble or the person who obediently believes everything he is told him by a government that has not once told the truth? What is a true patriot, those that read the Constitution and seek to bring a bad government into account or someone who stands next to the flag and blindly follows the known criminality of the Commander in Chief? It is those that dissent and protest and debate, because they love their freedoms and rights, while being called traitor and treasonous and terrorist that are the true patriots of America. There are millions of them across the land, fighting to expose the greatest crime ever committed upon the American people, fighting to restore what has been and continues to be lost.

by manuel valenzuela
 

fatdaddycool

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Dude are you kidding me? Are you enrolled in some kind of school that makes you dumber by the day or something? I call you a traitor and you post an essay penned by an immigrant that blasts the Bush administration which, again we go back to the whole research thing you say you are so astute at, that I, being a staunch DEMOCRAT jackass, couldn't give two rats asses about and somehow that makes Bush responsible for the destruction of the towers and the pentagon. Oh no, wait a minute, four yentas from Jersey said it was so, well by God man it must be so!!! The power of the press!!!!!! You are reading propaganda you jackass. You want pictures of a plane crashing into the building, actual physical pictures, the hundreds of EYEWITNESS accounts mean nothing. The twisted wreckage everywhere means nothing. The fact that my friend Troy was actually dispatched to the sight to remove the wreckage as he is part of the crash recovery team at AA and has told me extensively of the carnage and wreckage isn't enough. You need pictures right? Yet you have no pictures of any missiles....no eyewitness accounts of military aircraft firing a missile. No account of any missile..........so in your mind it must exist!?!?!?!?! The missile I mean of course, since there is no physical evidence, it must be the answer right? And I am the one that needs to read a little deeper, I have an idea why don't you read something. Why don't you apply all this wasted time on something constructive..........like say suicide or something.........then when everyone is mourning........(except the American public of course) I will just poo poo your untimely demise as untrue and one big hoax. Hey did you hear the one about us landing on the moon. Man you need to do some reading. You are absolutely fuhking daft you know that. I have read more meaningful and published more meaningful information then you will ever glean from incredibly insightful shit you read now. Tell me did that crazy Sam eat those green eggs and ham yet???? You crazy mixed up little traitor you. So lets recap. I am a Democrat from Chicago. You are an idiot that apparently moves alot. Glad we got that cleared up. By the way, come on down to Arlington Texas next year, Bush is going to fire a missile into the old Texas Stadium, but we are going to blame it on the Jews.
 

pt1gard

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ok so now youve tried to answer 2 questions ... keep going, answer them all, you obviously have the time and vitriolic asides to supersede any talion i have ever witnessed on this board ...

yay, you are a dem from chitown, good for you, big timer, you chide people like youre a founding member of mensa ... is everyone who thinks something's fishy a mindless sprite or just the ones who dont disagree with all your refried sam kinisons

id thought id seen it all after scottusc, but you are closing ground fast ...

and nice racist jab at manuel, we are all immigrants--i anticipated that from you, talking about simple minded... hustler, we all came out of Africa, grow up and show some compassion to people who might not be as 'white and pure' with marvel comic book intellectual superpowers as you believe you possess

peace
gregg
 
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fatdaddycool

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ok so now youve tried to answer 2 questions ... keep going, answer them all, you obviously have the time and vitriolic asides to supersede any talion i have ever witnessed on this board ...

yay, you are a dem from chitown, good for you, big timer, you chide people like youre a founding member of mensa ... is everyone who thinks something's fishy a mindless sprite or just the ones who dont disagree with all your refried sam kinisons

id thought id seen it all after scottusc, but you are closing ground fast ...

and nice racist jab at manuel, we are all immigrants--i anticipated that from you, talking about simple minded... hustler, we all came out of Africa, grow up and show some compassion to people who might not be as 'white and pure' with marvel comic book intellectual superpowers as you believe you possess

peace
gregg

huh?

Dude if ScottUSC, is seeing it all, then you are an idiot. First of all don't trivialize what you posted as "thinking something is fishy". Insinuating that the very Government that people a whole lot more Mensa than I and definitely less covered in drool than you, the Founding Fathers of this great nation, started are responsible for the mass murder and genocide of it's own citizens, is hardly thinking something is fishy. Don't be a coward as well as an idiot. You said, you eat it.

Wasn't racist at all, he is a naturalized citizen. When you are done looking up what the difference is then maybe you won't be so quick to jump to conclusions about people. Then again, what should I have expected, and I'm Irish dumbass. I don't care what fuhkin steamer your great great whatever they hell they were came the fuhk over here on, or where it came from. Has nothing to do with anything. Nor does your idol Manuel, nor Sam Kinison. Has everything to do with you and your mouth.......just like mine.........this is all coming from my mouth and what knowledge I personally have that I consider tangible and have based my decision on. My knowledge of the situation is free of hearsay and conjecture. It is based solely on factual information and physical evidence, when you can say that with any confidence whatsoever, then you have an argument. Until then you are just another long toothed descendant of a runaway slave. See how I can say that now as it is now based in fact as you have informed me that you arrived here from Africa. Assuming your ancestors came in one of the original shipments, one can see why you are bitter but I am guessing that you have no physical evidence to support that statement either.............do you?

Peace,
The Management
 

Cie

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nice ad hominem, fatdaddy ... you sound entirely too bitter, but like voltaire said, 'bring it on, baby :00hour

so since you have all the answers, why didnt you answer some of the others i postulated, you just attacked me, not all of questions .... if you are gonna go berserk, then address them all ... you sound a lil too republican and full of fear of searching for anything outside what you accept as fact, which is ever changing ... how much have you read on the topic ...

'more to the story,' what have you actually ferreted; theres tons of information out there, ask the 4 new jersey wives what they think, the ones who lost their husbands on 9/11 ... theyve spent a little more time studying this cocktail of lies than you or i ... your stock market rhetoric doesnt explain it all, keep reading deeper, maybe you can catch up, want a link or two

ironically, fletch didnt seem offended, he and i have been around this place for a bit... im glad to see hes open minded and not red white and blue purblind ... who said i dont like america, don't you ever see anything that you question about our government.


Already American democracy and freedom are in their last throes, hemorrhaging from years of corporatist mutilation. Elections have become a sham, a farce. Freedoms are disappearing, becoming extinct. The enemy within wishes for nothing more than an authoritarian, fascist nation, the easier to make decisions, the easier to implement their vision, the easier to control the population. The enemy within detests democracy, and this we must understand. Democracy and freedom are enemies. Ask yourself who has been the organization destroying our democracy and freedoms, our civil rights and liberties? Who has enacted Patriot Acts One and Two, who has destroyed due process, right to an attorney, habeas corpus? Who has tried to silence truth, dissent, protest and free speech? Who has made torture legal, false imprisonment necessary, confessions by torture legal and evidence concocted through hearsay or torture legal? Who has made it legal to spy on American citizens, opening our email accounts, overhearing our phone conversations, looking into our lives? It has not been the dreaded Arab evildoers. It has been the Bush administration. It has been your own government.

The truth is apparent, it can no longer be denied. The 9/11 Truth Movement thrives because it has truth and a quest for justice on its side. It has the power of the naked eye, for WTC 7 video footage cannot lie. It has physics, science, witnesses and research into government action and inaction. It has technology, experts and whistleblowers. It has honor, integrity and momentum. Of course there will always be 30 percent of the population that will never be made to believe in the criminality of its right wing heroes, even if the button for the controlled demolitions is put in front of their face. These 30 percent are sheeple, individuals comprising the army of good Americans, the most ignorant and closed minded people around. The Movement will never convince them. The challenge is reaching the millions who do have free-thinking minds, those who can put common sense and science and reason together.

The challenge ahead will not be easy, but the powerful never make it easy. They never grant the masses anything of value. We have to fight for it ourselves. Every civil liberty and right and freedom gained in the last century was achieved through the Power of the People. This Movement will be no different. Those that are our masters concede nothing, they take everything. They will throw obstacles at us, they will threaten and ridicule us, try to destroy our reputations and integrity. They will use the full power of the corporatist media to try and divide us, to divert us, to deceive us, to manipulate us. United we stand strong, divided we will fall. Strength in numbers, strength in conviction, it is time to bring these criminals and murderers to justice.


For what is braver, questioning authority or following it? What is more convenient, thinking for oneself or believing only what television wants you to believe? Who is more a patriot, the person who challenges the blatant lies of leaders in times of trouble or the person who obediently believes everything he is told him by a government that has not once told the truth? What is a true patriot, those that read the Constitution and seek to bring a bad government into account or someone who stands next to the flag and blindly follows the known criminality of the Commander in Chief? It is those that dissent and protest and debate, because they love their freedoms and rights, while being called traitor and treasonous and terrorist that are the true patriots of America. There are millions of them across the land, fighting to expose the greatest crime ever committed upon the American people, fighting to restore what has been and continues to be lost.

by manuel valenzuela

Sad to learn than an apparently thoughtful individual would not only read, but promote the idiotic rantings of manuel valenzuela.
 

The Sponge

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Move ova and would you please pass the popcorn? :chew: :0corn And for godness sakes quit licking your fingers after every pull out of the box. These Corns can't possible be this buttery. :mj02:
 

pt1gard

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i am reading david ray griffins book, the next pearl harbor, if anyone has the thirst for facts id recommend it ... read the short chapter on flight 77 in the bookstore, take 5 mins to learn facts ...

there are deductive and cumulative reasoning and i would enjoy hearing what others think after spending some time researching ...

as of the latest polls its about an even split with people believing there was or wasnt gov. complicity...

paul thompsons blow by blow factual timeline on 9/11 ... http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/main/dayof911.html

link to book reviews by david ray griffin, see what others who read think ...

http://www.amazon.com/Debunking-11-...4551353?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187986947&sr=1-1

124 of 149 people found the following review helpful:

Griffin does it again, March 30, 2007
By Alexander E. Paulsen "AlexP" (Jacksonville, Fl United States)


I was fortunate enough to be able to get an advance copy about a week ago from a professional reviewer. hey, if this is the first review here I will have scooped the New York Times hahaha.

After reading DRG's other books on 9/11 I had high expectations. With his book I was not disappointed.

As Barrie Zweicker observes, Griffin is clearly a prophet for our time. All his books are well constructed, cogent and very well researched and referenced.

In his latest work Griffin dissects the so-called 9/11 debunkers. Those who claim that the Kean Commission was the "fullest possible accounting into the events of September 11th" basically have their hindquarters handed to them - gift-wrapped.

I have read the Popular Mechanics book and found that in my opinion it debunks itself, It is loaded with false assertions and contradictions. It creates it's own straw man arguments and from it's forward admits that it accepts the official story even before it looks at any evidence. All road lead to the Kean Commission report and the very basis of the PM book is that the Kean Commission answered all the questions and all that remained is to match the facts with the official story any way they could. This is admitted right form the first page.

The PM book reads more like a parody than a serious analysis. A parody DRG seemed to have fun blowing to pieces.

It is obvious to the casual observer that many if the most vocal supporters of the Kean Commission and the PM book have not actually read either. DRG points out many issues that I (and probably most folk) missed even after several careful readings of both.

Well, DRG had read them and exposes each and every contradiction, impossibility and all the lies. Further, they're exposed so thoroughly and completely that there are no counter arguments left. Griffin misses nothing; there are no weaknesses or chinks in the case. This is the work of a true scholar.

This is a powerful book and one that is very dangerous to the adherents of the official story of 9/11. I predict that this book will gather several single-star reviews by folks who have not even seen it much less read it, that is to be expected I suppose. It is also typical of those who worship the official story; none wish to be confronted with the facts. Facts for which they have no counter argument.

This book despite being information dense and meticulously referenced is a true scholarly work, yet easy to read. Gripping in fact, and liberally sprinkled with DRG's wry wit.

Reading a well-researched book like this written by a genuine scholar is a real treat and a contrast to the usual nonsense that tends to get published today. When you read a book written at this level it is an eye-opening experience. After this go read one of the sophomoric "debunkers" that this book addresses for a good laugh.

It is not essential to read any of Griffin's other works on this subject, but I highly recommend that every interested or curious party read "A New Pearl Harbor" and "Omissions and Distortions" This work does stand on it's own but mainly deals with destroying the self-proclaimed debunkers attempts to prop up the official story.

Griffin misses little and even if you have read the "debunkers" and laughed as I have, Griffin, as the scholar makes points and observations that many have missed even after careful study. That is what real scholars do, That is the difference between a scholar and an amateur shill like James Meigs of Popular Mechanics.

If this book is responded to at all by the corporate media outlets do not expect it to be challenged on the material within. Expect shrill ad-hominem attacks, expect them to call DRG or traitor or that he insults the victims or the troops. Expect everything BUT facts.

I actually don't expect any major media outlets to review this book, even in an attempt to debunk it, it will be way to dangerous. I expect this book to greeted mostly with silence. I also notice that the Hannity's and O'Reilly's will never invite Griffin on their shows. They know DRG is way out of their league and has the truth and facts on his side. He would destroy them and they know it. Plus, he would destroy them with a smile while the other side sputters and spits.

Any honest person interesting in the future of our republic must read this book. If you are honest and believe the official story then read it, if you think that it cannot possible be true then refute it but refute it on the facts presented if you can.


anyhow, i realize this is a hot topic and people have strong feelings on each side and i will be attacked for my moral character and more, but im sorry i believe in the cumulative.

take care
gregg
 
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Kramer

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pt1gard, I love ya man, enjoy your posts and your
giving attitude, but give this one a rest or go to
the politics and religious forum, I wouldn't touch
that forum with a ten foot pole, but that's where
this belongs.

Just sayin :SIB
 

SixFive

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pt1gard, I love ya man, enjoy your posts and your
giving attitude, but give this one a rest or go to
the politics and religious forum, I wouldn't touch
that forum with a ten foot pole, but that's where
this belongs.

Just sayin :SIB

agree; one of the best posters on here until this bs diatribe of a post was made. :shrug:
 

pt1gard

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i appreciate all your guys opinions and time to post, and kramer ur prob right in the forum comment, but i did post that as a caveat when i started ...

again, i ask if any of you have you taken the time to read or watch any of david ray griffin's works, i havent seen one person say either way and would love to see anyone watch the above link and/or read the next pearl harbor and explain away everything ... im sorry i just dont think many of you are well informed if you answer no to what i just wrote ... if you swallowed the kean commission you are exactly what some are calling me on the flipside.

and i love you guys, im sorry im on a topic you dont agree with, but you can always choose not to enter it, and if one person ends up being better informed then ive accomplished something ...

now some wise guy will post, IM BETTER INFORMED, LEAVE PTIGARD :142smilie

thanks for anyone who reads any of this,
gregg
 

fatdaddycool

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i appreciate all your guys opinions and time to post, and kramer ur prob right in the forum comment, but i did post that as a caveat when i started ...

again, i ask if any of you have you taken the time to read or watch any of david ray griffin's works, i havent seen one person say either way and would love to see anyone watch the above link and/or read the next pearl harbor and explain away everything ... im sorry i just dont think many of you are well informed if you answer no to what i just wrote ... if you swallowed the kean commission you are exactly what some are calling me on the flipside.

and i love you guys, im sorry im on a topic you dont agree with, but you can always choose not to enter it, and if one person ends up being better informed then ive accomplished something ...

now some wise guy will post, IM BETTER INFORMED, LEAVE PTIGARD :142smilie

thanks for anyone who reads any of this,
gregg

I will tell you what Gregg, post one bit of tangible physical evidence that a missile destroyed the Pentagon or that the Government destroyed the WTC. Now listen carefully.....PROOF, not speculation, not questions like what about this. No, find me some trace evidence that explosives were used, find more than 30 people that can conceivably be believed that they saw a missile fired. Find me ONE FUHKING SKRED of PHYSICAL evidence any fuhking where in the gashdamn world. There isn't one itty bitty piece of it and this shit is really starting to make me mother fuhking incensed. I am sick of mother fuhkers like you, yea I said you, that bleed this country for every fuhking thing they can get and then point the finger at everything and say AHA! acting on the behalf of their own misconstrued idea of what the fuhking truth is and the truth is you don't have shit except speculation so shut the fuhk up jag off............got it...........move this shit somewhere else I have fuhkin had it with your whining ass bullshit, Clear enough for you asshat, I had an aunt and her two year old twins burn to death on that very fuhkin airplane you heartless fuhkin creep so say it one more time mother fuhker......I dare ya I double fuhkin dare you. You take your filth into the politics forum where self righteous communist traitors such as yourself can rot in fuhkin hell. Get the point this time dickhead. Fuhkin hypocrite piece of shit. Also before you spout any shit about internet tough guys. I am easy to find get my number from Jack gimme a call and I will be more than happy to have you call and we can make arrangements to discuss this in person. Hell I fly for free and I have a thing for traitors. Looking forward to hearing from you.

You know what Gregg, I can't believe how fukking mad I am right now and that is ridiculous because you aren't the only absolutely daft clueless conspiracy theorist around the world, but you may be the only one to keep posting after I repeatedly let you know I had family on that fuhking jet you ................... Be happy you aren't here dude because you would have been able to ask the terrorists themselves in about a fuhkin second.

I apologize to everyone on this forum for the language I used in this post but it could in no way be helped. I hope you can understand and if you can't then I apologize again. If that still isn't enough then the hell with ya.
 
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pt1gard

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you have more issues than the chicago tribune, my man ... have you read anything from griffin ...

who made the only two phone calls from flight 77; who is hani hanjour and how did he fly flight 77 like luke skywalker after failing cessna flights; why did bush say he saw the jet hit the north tower on a tv in the sarasota grammar school at app, 9 a.m. then get the note passed a short time later that tower two was hit, when the film of the jet hitting tower one wasnt shown to the public until the next day; who founded the ISI; why did cheney say he wasnt into the white house bunker until 10 a.m. when mineta says when he, mineta, arrived cheney was already there at 9;20; why did the scramble fighters fly at 1/3 their max speed and the stories of there take offs change time and again; why wont any major newspaper review the next pearl harbor when it sold over 100k copies, not every book that sells that many that gets reviewed as you know... why didnt the gov. do forensic tests on the buildings and then fly all the rubble to china... take some real time to research some answers


you sure curse and get angry so easily ... why is it so important not to read anything contrary to what you think, you actually sound like yours related to kean ... have a nice life, einstein
 
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