a quick poll--need some input

pt1gard

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2 thoughts

2 thoughts

* 87% of the world's heroin/poppy comes out of afghanistan ... in 2001 its was close to nothing ... cash crop for CIA and the usa, you make the call :)

* another chuckler the believers spit out is that this many people couldnt stay quiet etc, it would take 10K people to pull this off etc ... okay, how bout the manhattan project? they used 100K people who kept their tongues silent, not even Harry S. Truman, who was VP during most of the time, and the man who dropped Big Boy in August of '45, had clue one until FDR died ... kinda interesting:shrug:
 

marine

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* 87% of the world's heroin/poppy comes out of afghanistan ... in 2001 its was close to nothing ... cash crop for CIA and the usa, you make the call :)

Your spin on things is absurd.
Yes, in 2001 opium production was virtually nil, what about the 10 years prior (1990-1999) that they established themselves as the world leaders in opium production.

Wordsmithing and taking snippets out of context seem to be your only way to present things. Rather disappointing.

Here is the full report that your "87% of the world's heroin/poppy comes out of afghanistan" comes from:

During the 1990s, Afghanistan firmly established itself as the largest source of illicit opium and its
derivative, heroin, in the world. By the end of the 1990s, Afghanistan provided about 70 % of
global illicit opium production, well ahead of Myanmar (about 22 %) and Lao PDR (about 3%).
Primarily supplying countries in South West Asia, Central Asia, East and West Europe, as well as
in South Asia, the Arabian peninsula and Africa, illicit opiates of Afghan origin were consumed by
an estimated 9 to 10 million abusers, which is two-thirds of all opiate abusers in the world. More
than 10,000 of them die every year from opiates produced in Afghanistan. It can be estimated that,
all along the trafficking chain, more than half a million people have been involved in the trade of
illicit Afghan opiates in recent years.

In 2001, following the ban imposed by the former Taliban regime, an abrupt decline of illicit opium
poppy cultivation interrupted the two-decade increase,
but, stimulated by a subsequent 10-fold
increase in opium prices, cultivation resumed at a high level in 2002 and started to spread outside
of the traditional areas.

and the link to the full 125 page UN report.

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/afg/afghanistan_opium_survey_2004.pdf
 

pt1gard

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your hero

your hero

Bush?s Confused Recollection

Bush?s own recollection of the first crash only complicates the picture. Less than two months after the attacks, Bush made the preposterous claim that he had watched the first attack as it happened on live television. This is the seventh different account of how Bush learned about the first crash (in his limousine, from Loewer, from Card, from Rove, from Gottesman, from Rice, from television). On December 4, 2001, Bush was asked: ?How did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?? Bush replied, ?I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower?the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there?s one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident. But I was whisked off there, I didn?t have much time to think about it.? [White House, 12/4/01]

There was no film footage of the first attack until at least the following day, and Bush didn?t have access to a television until 15 or so minutes later. [Washington Times, 10/7/02] The Boston Herald later noted, ?Think about that. Bush?s remark implies he saw the first plane hit the tower. But we all know that video of the first plane hitting did not surface until the next day. Could Bush have meant he saw the second plane hit?which many Americans witnessed? No, because he said that he was in the classroom when Card whispered in his ear that a second plane hit.? [Boston Herald, 10/22/02] Bush?s recollection has many precise details. Is he simply confused? It?s doubly strange why his advisors didn?t correct him or?at the very least?stop him from repeating the same story only four weeks later. [White House, 1/5/02, CBS, 9/11/02] On January 5, 2002, Bush stated: ?Well, I was sitting in a schoolhouse in Florida? and my Chief of Staff – well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane?? [White House, 1/5/02]

Unfortunately, Bush has never been asked?not even once?to explain these statements. His memory not only contradicts every single media report, it also contradicts what he said that evening. In his speech to the nation that evening, Bush said: ?Immediately following the first attack, I implemented our government?s emergency response plans.? [White House, 9/11/01] It?s not known what these emergency plans were, because neither Bush nor anyone in his administration mentioned this immediate response again. Implementing ?emergency response plans? seems to completely contradict Bush?s ?by the way? recollection of a small airplane accident.
 

THE KOD

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marine he just ignores things he cant answer.

Bush probably did make confused statements about when the planes hit.

you forget Bush is stupid

he didnt have a clue about what was happening much less deep into a conspiracy .

what a joke
 

marine

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Dad,

yea, i know.... it's rather disappointing that someone who claims to be a seeker of truth can be so amazingly ignorant.

hey, did you like my mspaint drawings i did?
 

Agent 0659

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"marine, since people are whining to jack about being called sheep i opened one of your posts"

Can someone translate this to me? I don't understand the correlation of people whining to jack about being called sheep and the need to open one of my posts? So you just opened one? You took the easy one to try to answer and avoided the rescue dog topic completely huh? I'm calling you out on the carpet to discuss where you get this crap from and you sure are not stepping up.

I tell you what. I will have a "debate" on the phone with your silly ass if you are willing to tell me what you use as a filter for your information. And I mean a serious, your thought process answer. None of this "it was on the web" shit. Specifically, the search and rescue dog issue - if you can justify what you posted with some semblance of an actual fact. You're just throwing shit on the wall and hoping something sticks.

I will quote this so Gregg can see it. I'm sure he will look forward to debating you.

PtGard -450
Marine +430

:0corn
 

marine

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I will quote this so Gregg can see it. I'm sure he will look forward to debating you.

PtGard -450
Marine +430

:0corn

he's got some explaining to do before i have phone secks with him first. As said earlier, my biggest concern is having snippets of conversation taken out of context and published against me. His most recent posts prove my concerns have some validity to them.
 

pt1gard

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Heroin Smuggled in Body Bags of GIs

Heroin Smuggled in Body Bags of GIs

Dear friends,



WantToKnow.info received the below email on April 20, 2004. It is written by a career military man who personally witnessed a very large-scale drug smuggling case with likely involvement by elements of the US government and military. At the end of this email, you can see how we are working to powerfully get this news out in the open.



I am Bob Kirkconnell, a retired Air Force chief master sergeant. I spent 27 years on active duty, and now teach high school. I was involved in an investigation of heroin smuggling into the US using killed-in-action human remains out of Vietnam. This happened in 1972 or 1973, and since then I have been looking for any information that would explain the whole picture. Your web site is the first info I have been able to find in over 30 years.



I was an Air Transportation Supervisor in those days stationed at Kadena Air Base, Okinawa, Japan. One day we had an Air Force C-5 come in that was only scheduled for a few hours servicing (intransit), and then to continue on to Travis Air Force Base, California. This plane contained between 80 and 90 transfer cases (87 is the number I recall) containing human remains, killed-in-action, out of Vietnam. When it arrived, the plane broke, went into maintenance, and we had to order parts that would take over 24 hours to receive.



On intransit aircraft, Japanese customs did not get involved unless the plane was going to be on the ground more than 24 hours. This was the case with this C-5. After the plane was fixed we noticed that the two couriers for the human remains could not be located. This was highly unusual. One of the couriers was an Army major and the other was an Army master sergeant. We started looking for them and notified Japanese customs that something was very suspicious. We discovered that the master sergeant had take another flight to Hawaii. The name he was traveling under was Sutherland. We never did find the major, and I do not recall his name.



Japanese customs opened the transfer cases and found that all of the bodies had had their internal organs removed, and that they were stuffed with bags of pure heroin. An Air Force Office of Special Investigations, OSI, agent contacted me and told me "not to release any documents pertaining to the incident to anyone but him." One of my responsibilities was for processing and storage of all cargo and passenger documentation. He told me that he would let me know what he needed at a later date. I passed this info on to my people that worked the night shift. That night an Army investigator from Criminal Investigations Division, CID, came to the records section and demanded these records. He threatened to put our personnel in jail for obstructing an investigation, etc. The shift supervisor refused to give him the records, and eventually he went away.



Master Sergeant Sutherland (this was an alias) was apprehended in Hawaii a few days later, and was charged with several offenses. He was tried in a federal court in Washington, DC, and one of our captains testified at the trial. The OSI agent in Okinawa came to me before the trial and signed for all related documentation (orders, aircraft manifest, etc.). He sent this via US registered mail, signature service required, to the federal prosecutor in Washington.



The evidence never got to the court. I know this because I was concerned that the records needed to be returned to the files, and I inquired about them about once a week. The OSI agent eventually told me that the records had disappeared and signed a statement that the documentation was missing and could not be returned. I put this in the files. He also told me that Sutherland was convicted of only one charge--unauthorized wear of a US military uniform. None of the other charges were proven because of lack of evidence. He also told me that Sutherland was not his real name, and that he and the major with him had never been in the Army.



I knew this OSI agent because I had researched several other cases of drug smuggling on military aircraft. I usually did not ask him questions which I thought he was not at liberty to answer. He always told me everything that I needed to know to research illegal activities. Most of the cases were relatively smalltime drug smuggling. This case was something that was way over-the-top. All of us that knew the enormity of this case were flabbergasted. The forged documentation was flawless and had to have been done by experts in the air transportation field. Also, our people who saw the two impostors said that their uniforms and ID cards were perfect.



Further, when we talked about this, we were astounded with the enormity of this operation. The mortuary in Vietnam had to have put the heroin in the bodies, and the one at Travis Air Force Base, California had to remove the heroin, and it had to be distributed, ID cards had to be obtained, orders had to be made, etc. This was no smalltime operation.



I never forgot this event and it changed the way I looked at things from that time on. I recall hearing Maxine Waters, Congresswoman from California, talk about the FBI dumping enormous quantities of heroin in the inner-cities to destroy the social fabric of black communities. I also think about the fact that about one-third of African American males have criminal records and cannot vote in many states. And then there was Iran-Contra that involved cocaine smuggling. I wonder about the so-called "War on Drugs." Maybe it is really a war against African Americans. I also notice that Afghanistan has a bumper crop of opium, and I wonder if that might have had something to do with our invasion and the Northern Alliance taking over much of the country. Finally, I have never been stationed on an Air Base that I didn't suspect was being used for drug smuggling.



No, I have not read the book you mentioned, but I think I will. If there is anything that I have not made clear or any other info that you need please let me know.



Bob Kirkconnell





How We Responded



We forwarded the above email to Mike Levine, a member of the WantToKnow.info team. Mike is a 25-year veteran of the DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) turned best-selling author and journalist. Currently, he hosts the popular Expert Witness radio show on WBAI in New York. His articles and interviews on the drug war have been published in numerous national newspapers and magazines, including the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, USA Today, and Esquire.



Upon receiving this forwarded email, Mike was most interested in Bob's account. As a top DEA agent, Mike was involved himself in a very similar case. Here is a quote from Mike on his experience, "The Chang Mai ?factory? that the CIA prevented me from destroying was the source of massive amounts of heroin being smuggled into the US in the bodies and body bags of GIs killed in Vietnam. Case after case was killed by CIA and State Department intervention, and there wasn?t a thing we could do about it." You can read more about this on our website at www.WantToKnow.info/massmedia#levine.



Bob and Mike eventually had a deeply moving radio interview on New York's WBAI on June 21, 2004, titled "The Vietnam Body Bag Case." If you are willing to pay the $52 annual membership fee, you can listen to this powerful interview by going to: http://www.expertwitnessradio.org/archives/. Mike wrote me an email saying: "The show on the body bag case was very emotional to both of us...we were both loyal servicemen whose notions of how any US government agency were crushed...and the show is the very first time real witnesses to those horrific events came together to compare notes...anyone who hears the show will most certainly be affected." The news is getting out!
 

pt1gard

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suicides in iraq and criminal gov.

suicides in iraq and criminal gov.

Complicity & Contempt
Jim Kirwan
11-18-7


The United States has become a criminal enterprise led by a 'government' in league with criminality at the highest levels of this land. Since the 'election' of the current congress, almost a year ago-investigations have been reinitiated, supposedly to get to the bottom of the larger aspects of what appears to be apparent criminality throughout the government. To date those investigations have not yielded the necessary documentation required to bring charges against any of the key players-except that by these failures in both the congress and the courts, what has become clear is that they too are 'complicit' and are co-equal partners in the crimes of the administration.

What has become of all the inquiries regarding the illegalities of Dick Cheney, from his office inside the Matrix of this War upon the US and the world? Cheney has created an entirely secret shadow government: he is directing a completely asymmetric war policy that has broken with all sanity, and in which he continues to move ahead with his War-on-Iran, regardless of the global consequences-yet the congress refuses to charge him with contempt of congress. And Cheney is not alone * Rumsfeld, Rice, and Bush have all acted well beyond the law, blatantly defying the Constitution, the Geneva Conventions and the will of the majority of the people, as they and congress, have each failed to prosecute those behind this failed series of wars throughout the Middle-East.

The theft and disappearance of Trillions of dollars remains unexplained, while the policies of the nation at home remain unfunded. There is nothing secure about 'living' in this USA that is no longer secure or even viable in the wider world-while we continue our freefall into bankruptcy and disrepute around the world. That election in November of 06 was supposed to mark a turning point-and all we got was more war not less, more troops sent in, instead of the withdrawal that was being sought by the majority of those who voted: and if anything far more new money was committed to continuing the wars, rather than the cut-off of funds that voters thought that were demanding; now more than a year ago.

To be labeled "criminal," simply means to operate outside the established laws. This congress and the courts have now conjoined with the executive * in blatantly defying the Constitution of the nation-in their pursuit of something that was never envisioned by the founding documents of the nation. The Constitution founded a co- equal three branch government not a government with only one ruler: Not a "Decider" free from any checks or balances that could limit his actions or restrain his absolute rule.

Words no longer seem to have any meaning, because "real or legal consequences" have become part of what the administration refers to as 'quaint relics of our distant past.' Yet this is only a small part of how we have become a criminal enterprise.

During the Vietnam War the body-bags containing many American soldiers were shipped home with heroin packed inside the remains of those killed in that war. It was the perfect 'hiding place' to escape US customs or official notice, and it was a callous act that might be behind why the dead from this war have been 'protected' by an official act of secrecy declared by the Decider. After all, the Heroin in this war comes not from the Golden Triangle near Vietnam, but from the Poppy fields of Afghanistan that are now almost back to 100% production. This instance was the source for this aspect of that story. (1)

Given that we now know that the government has been lying about the actual number of dead from the Middle East, thanks to Mike Whitney:

"The Pentagon was covering up the real magnitude of the "suicide epidemic". Following an exhaustive investigation of veterans' suicide data collected from 45 states; CBS discovered that in 2005 alone "THERE WERE AT LEAST 6,256 AMONG THOSE WHO SERVED IN THE ARMED FORCES. THAT'S 120 EACH AND EVERY WEEK IN JUST ONE YEAR."

That is not a typo. Active and retired military personnel, mostly young veterans between the ages of 20 to 24, are returning from combat and killing themselves in record numbers. We can assume that "multiple-tours of duty" in a war-zone have precipitated a mental health crisis of which the public is entirely unaware and (for) which the Pentagon is in total denial.

If we add the 6,256 suicide victims from 2005 to the "official" 3,865 reported combat casualties; we get a sum of 10,121. Even a low-ball estimate of similar 2004 and 2006 suicide figures, would mean that the total number of US casualties from the Iraq war now exceed 15,000.

That's right; 15,000 dead US servicemen and women in a war that--as yet--has no legal or moral justification.

CBS interviewed Dr. Ira Katz, the head of mental health at the Department of Veteran Affairs. Katz attempted to minimize the surge in veteran suicides saying, "There is no epidemic of suicide in the VA, but suicide is a major problem."


Maybe Katz (was) right. Maybe there is no epidemic. Maybe it's perfectly normal for young men and women to return from combat, sink into inconsolable depression, and kill themselves at greater rates than they were dying on the battlefield. Maybe it's normal for the Pentagon to abandon them as soon as soon they return from their mission so they can blow their brains out or hang themselves with a garden hose in their basement. Maybe it's normal for politicians to keep funding wholesale slaughter while they brush aside the casualties they have produced by their callousness and lack of courage. Maybe it is normal for the president to persist with the same, bland lies that perpetuate the occupation and continue to kill scores of young soldiers who put themselves in harm's-way for their country.

It's not normal; it's is a pandemic---an outbreak of despair which is the natural corollary of living in constant fear; of seeing one's friends being dismembered by roadside bombs or children being blasted to bits at military checkpoints or finding battered bodies dumped on the side of a riverbed like a bag of garbage.

The rash of suicides is the logical upshot of Bush's war. Returning soldiers are traumatized by their experience and now they are killing themselves in droves. Maybe we should have thought about that before we invaded." (2)

Whatever the number of dead really is, the War on Iraq is a direct outgrowth of the Vietnam War that gave the War Department a template for exactly how our wars of conquest could be waged. * right down to how those wars could also be used for illicit profits as well as for privatized corporate windfalls that have no equal in history or in human memory. So ask yourself again - Why did the US classify the deaths of servicemen and women coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place!

Bush was asked before the war what the fall of Saddam would cost. He had no answer then, but we're beginning to understand some of the true costs now. . .

For too many Americans the Vietnam War is way beyond ancient history-it is barely even an event for far too many. But for those that might want more context "Apocalypse Now" (the film) can quickly bring you up to date. It's a film and an epic piece of entertainment. A re-creation not meant to be taken literally as part of the actual military history. However the theme of the film clearly outlines why the Decider chose to use mercenaries for the most disgusting aspects of his War on Iraq: Because it is clear that the War-on-Terror is a direct outgrowth of the misbegotten hell that was called "the Vietnam War." http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Apocalypse_Now

Not unlike the fabled mystic-character, updated from Joseph Conrad's" Heart of Darkness" (a 19th century exploration of the limits of human capacities); the screenplay for "Apocalypse Now" probes the mindset behind that same madness in the 20th century. Is it possible that the Cheney-Bush wars will eventually divulge the latest version of these dark and twisted thoughtforms in the 21st century? One thing is certain: when major-powers are misused the results are usually catastrophic, and in this instance, this Complicity in criminal behavior has resulted in Contempt, not only for law & order, but for the roots of freedom and humanity as well.

There is more than enough evidence to charge Cheney and others with Impeachable offenses * immediately. If this Congress will not issue Contempt of Congress citations for the Vice-President and his secret government officials * then why are we paying these criminals who are obviously complicit in their crimes against us!

Either we have laws clearly stated that are obeyed, or we do not. What we have now are laws that only apply to the little-people in this country. For the owners of this society there are no longer any laws by which they might actually be controlled or even inconvenienced. Americans need to demand that their government forego it's "vacation" and lift the veils of secrecy: Arrest those that have put those cloaks in place, because as was said of Vietnam: "It's the judgments that defeat us" * because the stench of lies is what these wars create!

Free people are only free when they are willing to challenge those that would take away their freedoms with the stroke of an illegal order or an Executive Decree. . .
 

pt1gard

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marine,


from viewing agents post you sure sound like an angry man, thats too bad seeing its yuletide :142smilie ... the % of dead dogs was quoted on a respetcted radio show by someone who works with the canine corps ... if you have better figures, please illuminate ...

i actually research things and take notes and listen to hours of programs a day ... all you ever try to do is refute facts i give by saying they are wrong, what do you believe happened on 9/11, i dont recall seeing you ever state that, are you a langley shill parrotting the official version .... how many times have you run away and come back, why does this thread threaten you so much? why didnt the 19 box cutters have to buy tickets to get on planes, why wont your hero release the videos from the pentagon, why did Bush lie saying he saw the plane hit the first tower ... you answer nothing yet you get so angry .... you amuse me with your hypocrisy :00hour

and no i dont open your garbage bc time and again you prove yourself only to name call and bring nothing to table bc you are obsessed with being wrong :)
 

marine

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Dear friends,



WantToKnow.info received the below email on April 20, 2004. It is written by a career military man who personally witnessed a very large-scale drug smuggling case with likely involvement by elements of the US government and military. At the end of this email, you can see how we are working to powerfully get this news out in the open.

Or, rather than pay $52 membership fee you can pay $3.99 and rent the movie "American Gangster" from blockbuster and see the same story.
 

marine

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marine,


from viewing agents post you sure sound like an angry man, thats too bad seeing its yuletide :142smilie ... the % of dead dogs was quoted on a respetcted radio show by someone who works with the canine corps ... if you have better figures, please illuminate ...

i actually research things and take notes and listen to hours of programs a day ...

I posted a pretty well respected research paper done by multiple organizations in a joint effort with no partiality.
Because someone says something on an internet radio show doesn't mean it is true. Continue to spin statements and sound bytes and I will continue to bring out the truth of the matter. The reason that you see me in this thread, is that there are a lot of impressionable people out in the world.. and letting you post this trash may cause someone to believe you and turn them into an idiot. I will continue to mock your "facts" and put up the complete articles to try to help newcomers realize how far out in galaxy pt1gard you really are.

I'm not an angry person at all really. I just find what you are doing is completely disgusting.
 
Last edited:

pt1gard

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marine,

since ur so obsessed with me and obviously have no life, and i refuse to open your posts, get my email from jack, and i will gladly talk to you and hear your pointless POV :00hour
 

marine

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marine,

since ur so obsessed with me and obviously have no life, and i refuse to open your posts, get my email from jack, and i will gladly talk to you and hear your pointless POV :00hour

sorry. so long as you keep posting shamelessly "researched" items in this thread, i will continue to post the truth behind them.

its not so much my desire to have you see them, its my desire to have other people see them.
 

rrc

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Marine...

Marine...

First of all, I admire your battle in refuting all the misinformation being promoted in this thread.

It's apparent that every bit of DOCUMENTED info you produce is ignored.

If I recall correctly you are married and possibly have children. I have a suggestion ...why don't you give yourself a Christmas present and take a break from this thread for the holiday season.

Just a thought. :shrug:
 
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