Boxing 11/19 - 11/21

[weepaul]

The one thing that makes me happy about Ward beating Kessler is, the odds might be closer on Kessler vs Froch.

If this is the case, I will be selling the kids to bet on Kessler!!!

 

[The Brainiac]

The one thing that makes me happy about Ward beating Kessler is, the odds might be closer on Kessler vs Froch.

If this is the case, I will be selling the kids to bet on Kessler!!!

I see some european bookies have Kessler at - 200 but doubt it will stay the same after this beatdown :mj07:

 

[Romi]

official-segura stops jaro in 88 secs...I needed that one to take a little heat off the kess loss...damn...I went 4-2 on the week but still show a small loss. I had faith in Kessler. Ward has me sold. He showed me he's willing to stay in the wheel house and FIGHT. Kess wanted no part of the inside. I see Ward being VERY tough to beat. Wish he were fight AA next. I'd bet on him at good odds.

 

[gardenweasel]

anybody know what happened with ma(mai) dana?.....

edit...saw romi`s post...that`s good news....

btw...i haven`t watched the whole ward/kess fight...i was watching mma and was catching bits and pieces....

i heard a commentator say around the mid rounds that he thought that kessler wanted out....

was the cut in the 11th so bad that kessler couldn`t suck it uop for a round and a half and give it one last shot to stop ward?....

did kessler actually say he couldn`t continue?...

 

[Romi]

anybody know what happened with ma(mai) dana?.....

edit...saw romi`s post...that`s good news....

btw...i haven`t watched the whole ward/kess fight...i was watching mma and was catching bits and pieces....

i heard a commentator say around the mid rounds that he thought that kessler wanted out....

was the cut in the 11th so bad that kessler couldn`t suck it uop for a round and a half and give it one last shot to stop ward?....

did kessler actually say he couldn`t continue?...

Kess had blood flowing in his eye but despite that he was getting drubbed. Ward had a career defining showing. Ward would beat him 10 of 10 times. The speed difference was huge. I thought Ward would be on his bike and would essentially fight a defensive fight like Dirrell. He stayed in the pocket and kess had no answer. Big props to Ward and you have to wonder what this does to Kesslers psyche. A drubbing like that can change a fighter and probably will. even Kessler was questioning his future at the end of the fight.

 

[Ghost Kid]

I was watching the UFC and missed this debacle in Mexico - but it sure hurt my wallet. Graham watched it and has a review of the events:

Madness in Mexico
http://www.fightwriter.com/?q=node/2475

2009
WOW....what a crap year....filled with some unbelievable decisions, huge upsets, and some very unfair situations

I want to say this - if you bet boxing this year and have come out ahead (as of tonight I am down), you are truly a special capper. I can't remember such bullshit occurring in one year.

:violin:

 

[Ghost Kid]

I hope a youtube clip pops up....people on the boxrec forums are comparing this headbutt to the ricardo torres - kendall holt headbutt.....i was on the loser that night as well.....

 

[gardenweasel]

Kess had blood flowing in his eye but despite that he was getting drubbed. Ward had a career defining showing. Ward would beat him 10 of 10 times. The speed difference was huge. I thought Ward would be on his bike and would essentially fight a defensive fight like Dirrell. He stayed in the pocket and kess had no answer. Big props to Ward and you have to wonder what this does to Kesslers psyche. A drubbing like that can change a fighter and probably will. even Kessler was questioning his future at the end of the fight.

i understand what you`re saying....no question ward won convincingly.....my question was,"did kessler choose to not finish by saying he couldn`t see,or did a doctor just wave it off because the cut was just too horrendous for the fight to continue"?....

when i tuned in once,i heard tarver say that kessler(earlier in the fight)didn`t want to go back out,and his corner basically sent him back out....

if that`s true,it doesn`t help kessler`s legacy....

this goes to what i posted earlier in one of the threads...kessler is talented...in europe,he outclasses pretty much everyone short of joe calzaghe...he`s been in very few competitive fights...and hasn`t been pushed real hard with the exception of calzaghe...

did he fold?....did ward basically break him?...did he take the easy way out instead of giving it one last shot?...

there was only about 4 minutes and change left in the fight...

many other fighters(given the choice) would never have quit....calzaghe,i`m certain,wouldn`t have...compared to the beatdowns cotto took vs margarito and manny,this was small potatoes...i`ve seen andrade fight on and almost stop bute in the 12th after getting schooled/drubbed for 11 rounds...i saw vitali klit(with half his face hanging off)beg to continue vs lennox lewis(this after the guy was skewered for pulling out of a fight with a dislocated shoulder,which imo,is an excellent reason)...

imo,i thought kessler stopped trying hard later in the fight vs calzaghe...

is kessler mentally tough when things aren`t going his way?...or is he just a very talented front runner?...

i don`t mean to sound crass...i know personally the balls it takes just to climb in there(albeit on a ridiculously low level in comparison)...i`m just asking...these guys are fighting at the highest level... i think it`s a fair question to consider...

 

[The Brainiac]

Referee said he will not stop the fight no matter how bad the cuts get I believe , he went to their corner and told them it was their decision what to do . With like half of the 11th go to they clashed with their heads again I believe and referee paused the fight . He went to their corner and asked what they want to do , Kessler's corner said they are taking him out , tho they didn't want to in the 8-10 when asked . Only watched it once so I might be wrong with some details but thats what happened I believe . He could easily continue IMO , cuts were bad but they were the same in previous 3 rounds or so and he went on .

 

[THE_THONG]

ward's style was the perfect foil

kessler can come back, he can smash froch who is made to order for him

ward has that improv/jazz thing they say calzaghe's style has

kessler hates that, and cant adjust

 

[crow]

when i tuned in once,i heard tarver say that kessler(earlier in the fight)didn`t want to go back out,and his corner basically sent him back out....

if that`s true,it doesn`t help kessler`s legacy....


did he fold?....did ward basically break him?...did he take the easy way out instead of giving it one last shot?...

Just saw the fight.
It is clear to me Kessler's corner didn't prepare him for Ward's style, and they were as clueless as him during the bout on how to turn the tide.

That being said, contrary to you, i saw nothing close to folding/quitting from Kessler, more like frustration in not being able to adjust to Ward's sometimes borderline tactics.

The first part of the fight, Ward won it fair and square, thanks to his youth/ hand speed/ foot speed and Kessler straight up european style.

Mikkel could have turned the tide in the latter part,Ward not being able to maintain his intensity, throwing wild at times.

Even with the cuts above both eyes, i thought he was doing better in the closing rounds going broke on some occasions and catching ward with the odd left hook.

He did buzz Andre at least three times, but then Andre turned billy goat and closed the distance; i can't fault him trying to survive, but the ref could have warned him.
Had he been obliged to stand and fight these moments, the result might have been different.

In the interviews, commenting about the headbutts, he said he wasn't a dirty fighter; unless all people's eyes are lying, he was lunging with his head indeed, and i think his comments sound strange to say the least.

He did a wonderful job in protecting his chin, and if they rematch, he should be the clear favorite.

 

[crow]

The one thing that makes me happy about Ward beating Kessler is, the odds might be closer on Kessler vs Froch.

If this is the case, I will be selling the kids to bet on Kessler!!!

I agree with you.
Ward didn't break Mikkel's spirit, and Froch style will suit him much better.
Kessler still beats the other two europeans.

 

[gardenweasel]

i`m not being clear...let me be more to the point...

again...did he choose to not finish...or were the cuts so severe that there was no choice but to quit?...

did the ref/doctor force the stoppage?...or did kessler/his corner choose not to continue?...

lemme go watch this thing from around the 7th round to the finish...

 

[crow]

i`m not being clear...let me be more to the point...

again...did he choose to not finish...or were the cuts so severe that there was no choice but to quit?...

did the ref/doctor force the stoppage?...or did kessler/his corner choose not to continue?...

lemme go watch this thing from around the 7th round to the finish...

No, Mikkel was having some success in the latter rds, but a punch by Ward widened the cut opened by the headbut, the ref stopped the action, brought the doctor in who said stop it now.

 

[The Brainiac]

I didn't watch it twice but thought Kessler's corner made the final decision not any doctor .
He could easily finish the fight , I've thought he looked better than Ward in the last 2 rounds too .

 

[gardenweasel]

o.k....kessler didn`t say he didn`t want to continue....the doctor made the call....

kessler,although it was one-sided, hung tougher than i initially thought...i didn`t see the give that i thought i detected a bit late vs calzaghe....he tried...

he was just out-quicked....i thought that kessler did pretty much the best he could do facing a very bad match-up stylistically for him...

kudos to kessler for a gallant effort...


just read that dirrell/abraham isn`t being fought in germany..it`s at madison square garden......

hmmmm?.....everyone with home court has held serve thus far...

 

[Romi]

o.k....kessler didn`t say he didn`t want to continue....the doctor made the call....

kessler,although it was one-sided, hung tougher than i initially thought...i didn`t see the give that i thought i detected a bit late vs calzaghe....he tried...

he was just out-quicked....i thought that kessler did pretty much the best he could do facing a very bad match-up stylistically for him...

kudos to kessler for a gallant effort...


just read that dirrell/abraham isn`t being fought in germany..it`s at madison square garden......

hmmmm?.....everyone with home court has held serve thus far...

No he did not quit but he was alluding to wanting to having the fight stopped. About the 8th rd he said he couldn't see. His eye wasn't shut but he had a nasty gash where blood was dripping into the eye. The corner did a bad job stopping the cut and they were clueless on the adjustments Kess needed to make. The corner should also have been screaming at the ref regarding the blatant butts. Ward nailed him with a minimum of a half dozen hard head butts. They clearly had an impact. The ref did nothing about it. I believe there may have been 1 warning. Ward also got away with holding and hittting. However on many occasions Kess would hold grab an arm and ward would let loose with his free hand and he whacked kess pretty good in numerous clinches. Regardless of the bad reffing, the bad corner and the poor preparation, I can't see Kess beating Ward. Ward was pretty damn good. As far as his spirit being broken, it may have IMO. "I have to look at the fight. See what I can do better and see IF I STILL GOT IT" were his exact words after the fight. I picked this one completely wrong after totally underestimating Ward's fighting spirit and capabilities. The words from Kess after the fight are not the ones i want to hear from a guy I'm betting on. Several in here are picking Kess to whoop Froch. These eyes saw a guy that didn't like the rough house tactics AT ALL and he couldn't adjust or retaliate. Froch makes it more of a street fight than Ward. Kess likes a conventional fight and he won't get it from froch.

 

[Kramden]

No he did not quit but he was alluding to wanting to having the fight stopped. About the 8th rd he said he couldn't see. His eye wasn't shut but he had a nasty gash where blood was dripping into the eye. The corner did a bad job stopping the cut and they were clueless on the adjustments Kess needed to make. The corner should also have been screaming at the ref regarding the blatant butts. Ward nailed him with a minimum of a half dozen hard head butts. They clearly had an impact. The ref did nothing about it. I believe there may have been 1 warning. Ward also got away with holding and hittting. However on many occasions Kess would hold grab an arm and ward would let loose with his free hand and he whacked kess pretty good in numerous clinches. Regardless of the bad reffing, the bad corner and the poor preparation, I can't see Kess beating Ward. Ward was pretty damn good. As far as his spirit being broken, it may have IMO. "I have to look at the fight. See what I can do better and see IF I STILL GOT IT" were his exact words after the fight. I picked this one completely wrong after totally underestimating Ward's fighting spirit and capabilities. The words from Kess after the fight are not the ones i want to hear from a guy I'm betting on.

Yeah, Kessler has had a successful, lucrative career. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that will continue to put himself in tough situations. I think the Eastern Europeans tend to have a different attitude when it comes to combat. Boxing is a sport and not a way of life to them. When things don't the fighter's way anymore, they are more inclined to move on.

But there are stubborn mofo's on this continent that can't face the truth and will keep hanging on until there is nothing left. See Meldrick Taylor, Ivan Robinson and dozen's of other guys.

You know what, based on last night I'm not certain that Kessler could get by a perhaps somewhat limited, but highly confident and rugged Carl Froch. Froch, if anything, is a scrappy prick.

 

[Kramden]

And I do think Kessler was hoping his team would pull the plug when he said he couldn't see. But that old crusty Dane trainer wouldn't take the bait.:142smilie :mj07: I think he could see fine and that left eye had no swelling and no overflow of crimson at all. Kessler looked fit and his breathing didn't seem overly labored between rounds. He was just completely frustrated and didn't see any way to figure out Ward. The ref wanted to award Ward a TKO in the worst way.

 

[Romi]

Yeah, Kessler has had a successful, lucrative career. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that will continue to put himself in tough situations. I think the Eastern Europeans tend to have a different attitude when it comes to combat. Boxing is a sport and not a way of life to them. When things don't the fighter's way anymore, they are more inclined to move on.

But there are stubborn mofo's on this continent that can't face the truth and will keep hanging on until there is nothing left. See Meldrick Taylor, Ivan Robinson and dozen's of other guys.

You know what, based on last night I'm not certain that Kessler could get by a perhaps somewhat limited, but highly confident and rugged Carl Froch. Froch, if anything, is a scrappy prick.

I edited my post and essentially said the same thing. I thought the Great Dane was a bit scrappier but he didn't like the infighting or the rough tactics and really had no answer. I think Froch will key on that and make it as ugly as can be for Kess. When a ref doesn't help you out you HAVE to retaliate. I don't care for Froch at all but I think he's going to make for a rough night for Kess.