Boxing 3/25 - 3/27
- Thread starter Ghost Kid
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- Jun 23, 2008
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Definitely Zerwas
I try to remember how fortunate I was to get the Beibut decision earlier this year
this type of stuff goes both ways
But watch the youtube link...Henry CLEARLY landed an illegal knockout blow....he has done this in other bouts....holding and smacking behind the head
The ref made a very bad call
very bad
- Jun 23, 2008
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I'm gonna say something else right now that won't be very popular around here
I know a lot of people made money on Dirrell
and he boxed INCREDIBLY well for 8 rounds...very impressive
but I rewatched the fight again today and there is NO QUESTION in my mind....dude was falling apart....he was unraveling fast.....
watch rnd 10 again...he was hurt by that knockdown and rnd 11 was only 1 minute in....Abraham had 5 minutes to finish the deal and he was going to do it
100% Abraham should have been DQ'ed for the shot
but I do think, in my own opinion, that Dirrell was either 1. acting or 2. concussed even before that last shot
it was not a hard shot
it was illegal shot, but it was not a hard shot
I think Dirrell was hurt prior to this shot
his legs were slowing down and the punches were hurting him
I would bet Abraham in a rematch
I know a lot of people made money on Dirrell
and he boxed INCREDIBLY well for 8 rounds...very impressive
but I rewatched the fight again today and there is NO QUESTION in my mind....dude was falling apart....he was unraveling fast.....
watch rnd 10 again...he was hurt by that knockdown and rnd 11 was only 1 minute in....Abraham had 5 minutes to finish the deal and he was going to do it
100% Abraham should have been DQ'ed for the shot
but I do think, in my own opinion, that Dirrell was either 1. acting or 2. concussed even before that last shot
it was not a hard shot
it was illegal shot, but it was not a hard shot
I think Dirrell was hurt prior to this shot
his legs were slowing down and the punches were hurting him
I would bet Abraham in a rematch
Just got back from a long weekend... Damn!! Disappointing results. I'm still checking over things but wasn't a good week.
Always come here to get the true scoop. Thanks
A combination of things occurred here. First the ref lost control of this from the get go despite the "Colonels" implying he did a good job. I think he did a piss poor job. Henry was holding and hitting throughout the rd in which he barely got warned. He constantly pushed down on the head of garay and teed off w/no warning. Garay got butted and pushed w/no warning. Garay was also very wild and he was getting tagged with some good legal shots. 3rd, Henry did hold and hit but it's up to Garay to protect himself and he didn't. Being in close and holding, a seasoned vet like him should have had that free hand of Henrys tied up or at least had his own left up to block any rts from Henry. The way these guys were hitting in the 1st, I don't think there was any way this was going the dst. Garay did not bounce his head off the canvas as Sheridan's side clown said. These guys were so annoying in 2 mins of commentary, it was almost worth losing the bundle...at least we didn't have to listen to their worthless drivel for 12 rds :142smilie
Thx for the you tube link Ghost :toast: !!!
i gotta say that the guys that don`t think dirrell was concussed after watching him twitch on the canvas and not know what the hell happened afterward need to put down the crack pipe...
they could have called that jab a knockdown(no problem there),but he clearly slipped..and it was a jab......no disputing that..the jab didn`t do the damage...the shot on the jaw is what put him on queer street...
and donny...dirrell`s not a "man'?....seriously,dude...that`s just ridiculous...
was he supposed to stand toe to toe and go mano a mano with abraham after sweeping 8 of the first 10 rounds?...you think maybe he learned something from watching taylor/abraham or taylor/froch?...that wouldn`t make him "unmanly"...it would make him an idiot...
would he have survived another round and ahalf barring the illegal shot?....who the hell knows...abraham rendered that point moot..
some serious cognitive dissonance going on here...sheesh...
they could have called that jab a knockdown(no problem there),but he clearly slipped..and it was a jab......no disputing that..the jab didn`t do the damage...the shot on the jaw is what put him on queer street...
and donny...dirrell`s not a "man'?....seriously,dude...that`s just ridiculous...
was he supposed to stand toe to toe and go mano a mano with abraham after sweeping 8 of the first 10 rounds?...you think maybe he learned something from watching taylor/abraham or taylor/froch?...that wouldn`t make him "unmanly"...it would make him an idiot...
would he have survived another round and ahalf barring the illegal shot?....who the hell knows...abraham rendered that point moot..
some serious cognitive dissonance going on here...sheesh...
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i apologize to the board for getting a little fractious...everyone is absolutely entitled to their own opinion...that`s what makes this place great...
the comment about dirrell being "unmanly" really got under my skin...
good job week in and week out from the group...some of the more obscure bouts that you guys dig out and prognosticate successfully every week are truly amazing...
again,sorry for getting my back up..
- Jun 23, 2008
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All good GW
glad you won on Dirrell
I'm just an admitted sore loser...I hate being wrong....and I really think Abraham had a shot at him the last 5 minutes
I wonder how this will affect Dirrell the rest of his career? If that shot knocked him into convulsions, I can't imagine what's gonna happen later when he loses the speed and reflexes....happens sooner or later to every great talent...
but he doesn't seem to take punches very well
glad you won on Dirrell
I'm just an admitted sore loser...I hate being wrong....and I really think Abraham had a shot at him the last 5 minutes
I wonder how this will affect Dirrell the rest of his career? If that shot knocked him into convulsions, I can't imagine what's gonna happen later when he loses the speed and reflexes....happens sooner or later to every great talent...
but he doesn't seem to take punches very well
Excellents pts GW! I know (myself included) that our own personal wagers do indeed affect our objectivity. Boxing writers do it all the time. Nobody wants to be wrong...especially on a public forum. I try my best to be objective no matter who my dough is on but I'm sure a wager can cloud my judgement. I watched the last few rounds and I feel that Direll was clear headed up until he got hammered on the canvas. NO DOUBT whatsoever, he was seriously concussed. It pisses me off as well when I hear people throwing the word coward around loosely in such an event or to even make the claim that he was "acting". Shame on AA and his people. They simply wanted to save face after their guy got his ass kicked for 10 rds...ok the better part of 9 rds. Direll was stunned a bit at the tail end of 9 and he was hurt in rd 10 when he was knocked down. Cole indeed blew the call but the call didn't have any relevance on the outcome. AA needed a KO. I have yet to see it but there are also claims Cole blew a call when AA went down for the 2nd time and ruled that a slip. From what I saw, I thought Direll could have lasted the distance. He was tired and he was hurt but he still had his senses about him. Yes, IF AA landed 1 more clean shot, it could very well have been lights out but he didn't. He got his ass whooped for 9 rounds and then he threw a blatantly illegal shot...so fuck him. He landed a brutal shot when the guy had clearly slipped and was down. 20 mins later he still wasn't aware of what was going on. He thought he had lost the fight. So the the guy gets whacked into unconsciousness while he's down and the fans are harping on him for "acting" and saying he's "not a man"...give me a fvcking break!
lol >> valero's wife now saying she fell down a flight of steps
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=26433
battered wife syndrome?
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=26433
battered wife syndrome?
- Nov 14, 2008
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I also thought Direll did a not so fine job of acting.
I had no money on the fight but I admit I rooted for Abraham and I admit I don't like that loudmouth Direll. Am I sure? Of course not, how can anybody be.
For me it was just the way he reacted to the punch. In all my years watching boxing I never saw a guy who received KO punch to wait, touch his face with a glove, take a look up and then lay down without hitting a canvas with his head. It just looked to me like he was thinking all the time.
Having said that, I think it was a good thinking from his part. That punch would give unfair advantage to Abraham for the rest of the fight. AA deserved to be DQ and I would argue that Direll should be awarded 3 pts. Funny thing is that AA probably wouldn't throw DQ punch if he wasn't caught by Direll moment after he started to slip.
I was surprised as hell in this fight. I thought Direll was boxing beautifully and showed a lot of courage. What I can not fathom is how the fuck can someone being afraid to get touched by Froth but is willing to trade with AA. I guess he upped his game. And wasn?t his chin a slight question? He took more than a few bombs and didn?t react in first 8 rounds.
I had no money on the fight but I admit I rooted for Abraham and I admit I don't like that loudmouth Direll. Am I sure? Of course not, how can anybody be.
For me it was just the way he reacted to the punch. In all my years watching boxing I never saw a guy who received KO punch to wait, touch his face with a glove, take a look up and then lay down without hitting a canvas with his head. It just looked to me like he was thinking all the time.
Having said that, I think it was a good thinking from his part. That punch would give unfair advantage to Abraham for the rest of the fight. AA deserved to be DQ and I would argue that Direll should be awarded 3 pts. Funny thing is that AA probably wouldn't throw DQ punch if he wasn't caught by Direll moment after he started to slip.
I was surprised as hell in this fight. I thought Direll was boxing beautifully and showed a lot of courage. What I can not fathom is how the fuck can someone being afraid to get touched by Froth but is willing to trade with AA. I guess he upped his game. And wasn?t his chin a slight question? He took more than a few bombs and didn?t react in first 8 rounds.
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you`ve really never seen a delayed reaction to a punch?...and you really think the twitching of the legs and the inability to answer questions cognitively afterward were all a big act?...the crying and being distraught and actually thinking he got k.o.`ed was all an act?...
why cry and act distraught about getting k.o.`ed?...why not scream about getting fouled?....his people actually had to tell him he didn`t lose...it appeared he didn`t even know what had happened...
maybe the guy is a descendant of sir laurence olivier...pretty good off the cuff acting job there...on so many levels...:shrug:
I watched the fight on German TV, and it was hard to get a real scoop on the Dirrell situation...the whole thing looked definetly strange to me.
From what I gather now, I guess that Dirrell was really hurt by that illegal punch Abraham threw. No question about the disqualification.
I would have liked to see the last 5 minutes though, Abraham was kind of desperate...but he was having some success as well...
well, Abraham robbed himself of this opportunity, I guess frustration played a role here as well...
From what I gather now, I guess that Dirrell was really hurt by that illegal punch Abraham threw. No question about the disqualification.
I would have liked to see the last 5 minutes though, Abraham was kind of desperate...but he was having some success as well...
well, Abraham robbed himself of this opportunity, I guess frustration played a role here as well...
- Apr 8, 2008
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quick takes
quick takes
I had Garay but I don't think his loss was egregious. Guys always punch with the free hand in a clinch and Henry clearly hurt him with that right high on head. Garay did not bang his head on the canvass and was hurt. He didn't/or couldn't get up in time. Fight over.
Garay may have won a long fight but Henry is one of the strongest light heavy's in the world today and after watching that small portion, a Garay win was by no means a formality. A brutal fight was in the making.
Also, Garay may have peaked with his fights with Dolt Erdei and Braehmer. His physique looked softer than in those days and he may have lost something with his recent weight struggles. I thought he still had the goods to handle the crude, but physical Henry but maybe he didn't.
As for AA and AD. I think Dirrell was badly hurt by the foul. He doesn't have the cognition to be that good an actor. He was fucked up. For all we know, he still thinks he lost the fight.
I do think there was about an even shot for King Arthur to get Dirrell out of there with a clean shot if the fight resumed. But Arthur rendered that an impossibility with that shot.
I got the sense Arthur enjoyed KTFO of Dirrell even though it was an illegal blow and a loss. Dude just wanted to lay something on him by any means necessary. He's probably had some chuckles about it.
One observation came really clear to me is that Dirrell needs to be roughed up and given no time to set up. Froch did it and it forced Dirrell to exchange and caught Dirrell with many,if glancing shots. And even though Dirrell will likely get there first, he leaves himself off balance and open when pressed in such a manner.
When Arthur used that approach on a few rare occasions, Dirrell looked very uncomfortable and open. Someone should have informed Arthur because I think if he forced a real dog fight, even though against his nature, he would have scored a legit KO.
Maidana is a serious badass at 140. I know some think he's vulnerable - I don't. He's get some some speed and reflexes and keeps a pretty tight guard for a stalker. And the dude will always come back with something when he's hit. He's more dangerous just after an opponent hits him.
Most of you may disagree but I think he's seriously "live" against Alexander and Bradley. Guys with chins, punch, stamina and speed will always be dangerous. And I think his technique is improving. He's a new very bright light in the game. And he's only 26.
Oh, and Alvarado is returning. That's great. I like him a great deal, too. I was wondering what happened to him. I figured it may have been a jail stretch as some alluded to. I'd put him in the mix with the best guys after a few comeback fights.
quick takes
I had Garay but I don't think his loss was egregious. Guys always punch with the free hand in a clinch and Henry clearly hurt him with that right high on head. Garay did not bang his head on the canvass and was hurt. He didn't/or couldn't get up in time. Fight over.
Garay may have won a long fight but Henry is one of the strongest light heavy's in the world today and after watching that small portion, a Garay win was by no means a formality. A brutal fight was in the making.
Also, Garay may have peaked with his fights with Dolt Erdei and Braehmer. His physique looked softer than in those days and he may have lost something with his recent weight struggles. I thought he still had the goods to handle the crude, but physical Henry but maybe he didn't.
As for AA and AD. I think Dirrell was badly hurt by the foul. He doesn't have the cognition to be that good an actor. He was fucked up. For all we know, he still thinks he lost the fight.
I do think there was about an even shot for King Arthur to get Dirrell out of there with a clean shot if the fight resumed. But Arthur rendered that an impossibility with that shot.
I got the sense Arthur enjoyed KTFO of Dirrell even though it was an illegal blow and a loss. Dude just wanted to lay something on him by any means necessary. He's probably had some chuckles about it.
One observation came really clear to me is that Dirrell needs to be roughed up and given no time to set up. Froch did it and it forced Dirrell to exchange and caught Dirrell with many,if glancing shots. And even though Dirrell will likely get there first, he leaves himself off balance and open when pressed in such a manner.
When Arthur used that approach on a few rare occasions, Dirrell looked very uncomfortable and open. Someone should have informed Arthur because I think if he forced a real dog fight, even though against his nature, he would have scored a legit KO.
Maidana is a serious badass at 140. I know some think he's vulnerable - I don't. He's get some some speed and reflexes and keeps a pretty tight guard for a stalker. And the dude will always come back with something when he's hit. He's more dangerous just after an opponent hits him.
Most of you may disagree but I think he's seriously "live" against Alexander and Bradley. Guys with chins, punch, stamina and speed will always be dangerous. And I think his technique is improving. He's a new very bright light in the game. And he's only 26.
Oh, and Alvarado is returning. That's great. I like him a great deal, too. I was wondering what happened to him. I figured it may have been a jail stretch as some alluded to. I'd put him in the mix with the best guys after a few comeback fights.
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- Nov 14, 2008
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you`ve really never seen a delayed reaction to a punch?...
Yes I did. Although delayed reactions are pretty rare I expected it here. And not surprisingly I got it. I am not saying he was acting, I am saying I THINK he was acting.
and you really think the twitching of the legs and the inability to answer questions cognitively afterward were all a big act?
I am twitching my leg right now. It is not that hard. And I don?t know if he was able to answer the questions.
...the crying and being distraught and actually thinking he got k.o.`ed was all an act?...
Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn?t. Having a gun to my head I would say it was.
why cry and act distraught about getting k.o.`ed?...why not scream about getting fouled?
Because you would look like a guy who took an easy way out. Guy like Guerrero took a lot of heat for that lately.
....his people actually had to tell him he didn`t lose...it appeared he didn`t even know what had happened...
Yes it appeared ?
maybe the guy is a descendant of sir laurence olivier...pretty good off the cuff acting job there...on so many levels...:shrug:
I thought from your previous posts that you are, like myself, Michael Cane fan. :shrug: I thought it was a bad acting job, obviously.
Yes I did. Although delayed reactions are pretty rare I expected it here. And not surprisingly I got it. I am not saying he was acting, I am saying I THINK he was acting.
and you really think the twitching of the legs and the inability to answer questions cognitively afterward were all a big act?
I am twitching my leg right now. It is not that hard. And I don?t know if he was able to answer the questions.
...the crying and being distraught and actually thinking he got k.o.`ed was all an act?...
Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn?t. Having a gun to my head I would say it was.
why cry and act distraught about getting k.o.`ed?...why not scream about getting fouled?
Because you would look like a guy who took an easy way out. Guy like Guerrero took a lot of heat for that lately.
....his people actually had to tell him he didn`t lose...it appeared he didn`t even know what had happened...
Yes it appeared ?
maybe the guy is a descendant of sir laurence olivier...pretty good off the cuff acting job there...on so many levels...:shrug:
I thought from your previous posts that you are, like myself, Michael Cane fan. :shrug: I thought it was a bad acting job, obviously.
- Jun 23, 2008
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Allan Green on Dirrell
""I really couldn't see some some of it. I saw the little punch. I did think he put on a bit of an act, and I like Dirrell. I think he could have continued the fight or he could have taken five minutes. At the time [of the incident] it wasn't looking good for him. The last four minutes would have been interesting to see. I thought Dirrell could have continued and kept fighting. He laid there for a second and everything was fine and then he started shaking. Then he got up and said he was knocked out and didn't know what happened. If you didn't know what happened, then how can you say you got knocked out?"
""I really couldn't see some some of it. I saw the little punch. I did think he put on a bit of an act, and I like Dirrell. I think he could have continued the fight or he could have taken five minutes. At the time [of the incident] it wasn't looking good for him. The last four minutes would have been interesting to see. I thought Dirrell could have continued and kept fighting. He laid there for a second and everything was fine and then he started shaking. Then he got up and said he was knocked out and didn't know what happened. If you didn't know what happened, then how can you say you got knocked out?"
- Jun 23, 2008
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Good stuff Kramden
I agree with many of your points
I had Cayo, but after watching the fight - I'm not too comfortable betting against Maidana again. The guy is an animal.
About Dirrell:
I think Froch did a much better job of "roughing" Dirrell up than Arthur. I expected Abraham to follow the Froch gameplan and improve on it. But he did the same shit he always does. Abraham is a cocky guy and he just assumed he wouldn't eventually get to him. Had he started earlier, and really made it a dogfight, he would have scored the KO. And I do think you are right - Abraham is a bit of a nasty bastard. He enjoyed the KO - illegal or not.
These guys are KILLING each other in this Super Six. I remember when someone asked Pavlik about the Super Six, before it started, he said something like "Let those guys go kill each other for peanuts". It really is a lot to ask of these guys - they are fighting the cream of the crop one after the other. A guy like Ward, who has proven to be mentally above the rest, will probably be just fine. Froch also seems tough mentally. Very tough.
But guys like Kessler, Dirrell, Green. I don't know. These guys have shown glaring weaknesses in my opinion. Mentally. Dirrell is gifted with incredible speed and reflexes. Some of the shots he was landing and doubling up on early in that fight - wow ! Great stuff. But he does a lot of this, I believe on instinct and athleticism. Whereas Ward seems to be a thinking fighter - combining the speed and reflexes with smarts, craftiness, tempo control.
We shall see how Dirrell comes back. I think he seriously drops off after this. Maybe I am selling him short.
That being said, on Saturday night he fought better than I thought he was capable of fighting. And for that, I think you guys who backed him definitely deserved to cash the winning ticket.
How bout Valero? What a disgusting guy. I love watching him in the ring, but I don't take too kindly to wife beaters. They sent him to alcohol rehab? Where I'm from, wife beaters don't belong in rehab. They belong in jail. Hitting a woman that pretty - he must be loco.
I agree with many of your points
I had Cayo, but after watching the fight - I'm not too comfortable betting against Maidana again. The guy is an animal.
About Dirrell:
I think Froch did a much better job of "roughing" Dirrell up than Arthur. I expected Abraham to follow the Froch gameplan and improve on it. But he did the same shit he always does. Abraham is a cocky guy and he just assumed he wouldn't eventually get to him. Had he started earlier, and really made it a dogfight, he would have scored the KO. And I do think you are right - Abraham is a bit of a nasty bastard. He enjoyed the KO - illegal or not.
These guys are KILLING each other in this Super Six. I remember when someone asked Pavlik about the Super Six, before it started, he said something like "Let those guys go kill each other for peanuts". It really is a lot to ask of these guys - they are fighting the cream of the crop one after the other. A guy like Ward, who has proven to be mentally above the rest, will probably be just fine. Froch also seems tough mentally. Very tough.
But guys like Kessler, Dirrell, Green. I don't know. These guys have shown glaring weaknesses in my opinion. Mentally. Dirrell is gifted with incredible speed and reflexes. Some of the shots he was landing and doubling up on early in that fight - wow ! Great stuff. But he does a lot of this, I believe on instinct and athleticism. Whereas Ward seems to be a thinking fighter - combining the speed and reflexes with smarts, craftiness, tempo control.
We shall see how Dirrell comes back. I think he seriously drops off after this. Maybe I am selling him short.
That being said, on Saturday night he fought better than I thought he was capable of fighting. And for that, I think you guys who backed him definitely deserved to cash the winning ticket.
How bout Valero? What a disgusting guy. I love watching him in the ring, but I don't take too kindly to wife beaters. They sent him to alcohol rehab? Where I'm from, wife beaters don't belong in rehab. They belong in jail. Hitting a woman that pretty - he must be loco.
