Boxing 5/6 - 5/9

[Fightwriter]

Photos indicate yes, but ....

Photos indicate yes, but ....

Yes, Kramden, the photos indicate a trip but, watching the video, it seemed that Kermit stumbled a bit, steadied himself, and then just seemed to launch himself out of the ring. It looked to me as if he had recovered his balance OK --- and then he just seemed to take flight. One of the all-time weird endings, that's for sure.

 

[gardenweasel]

hmmm?...maybe that`s why williams jumped up and went to the ropes to see how cintron was?.....pang of guilt...thought HE might get d.q.ed?...

might explain why cintron didn`t have his hands up...he wasn`t expecting to get tripped......

o.k....sorry if i offended...i`m just not buying into the witch hunt...

big week coming up...looking forward to some great info from the brothers...:toast:

 

[Ghost Kid]

I agree with Graham on this.
Video a much better indication of what happened (no only in this fight, but in life in general. Photos can be SEVERELY misread).

The foot would definitely be enough for a slip into the ropes. But Cintron literally, after clearing Paul's foot, took another push off into the front row.

What he was doing was so abundantly clear to me, that I am just STUNNED that a lot of guys believe him.

But what the hell do I know anyway?
:shrug:
:mj07:

 

[Romi]

I guess I'll beat on this dead horse a little bit myself. DR Paul Wallace the attending physician last Sat night stated that he asked Kerm if he could continue and his response was NO. He was asked twice and both times he said NO. The doctor also said that if Kermit indicated that he wanted to continue then he would have let him. This came from Boxingscene. After viewing the replays countless times, Kermit did not give a single sign that he wanted to continue fighting UNTIL he was strapped on the gurney. I agreed with Grahams column 100% and IMO this pretty much solidifies that Kermit wanted no more of PW...of course unless the doctor is part of a grand conspiracy to paint Kermit as a mental midgit.

 

[HurricaneEddy]

I had a lot on PWill straight but I had the same amount on combination of PWill inside with PWill 12rd dec which both lost.

Didn't the Williams Inside prop count for technical decisions as well? I understand the 12 round decision prop losing because the fight only went 4 BUT I would imagine Williams winning in ANY other way KO/TKO/DQ/Tech. Dech would make your other wager a winner, no?

 

[gardenweasel]

I guess I'll beat on this dead horse a little bit myself. DR Paul Wallace the attending physician last Sat night stated that he asked Kerm if he could continue and his response was NO. He was asked twice and both times he said NO. The doctor also said that if Kermit indicated that he wanted to continue then he would have let him. This came from Boxingscene. After viewing the replays countless times, Kermit did not give a single sign that he wanted to continue fighting UNTIL he was strapped on the gurney. I agreed with Grahams column 100% and IMO this pretty much solidifies that Kermit wanted no more of PW...of course unless the doctor is part of a grand conspiracy to paint Kermit as a mental midgit.

simple answer...it`s all speculation....based on the supposition that cintron wasn`t dazed after the fall....and unfortunately,it appears to be based on who`s ox was gored due to the odd circumstance...

and there are no other issues concerning cintron`s willingmness to fight...because he was almost k.o.`ed by martinez and hung in the fight certainly doesn`t establish a history of cowardice...all it establishes is that some gambler`s felt cheated...and that may be true....i understand the hard feelings from the board...but it wasn`t because the guy quit...just the opposite...

he`s been in with margarito twice(who nobody wanted any part of at the time)...he was in tough vs a now pfp martinez.....and he stepped up to fight the guy that nobody wanted to fight.....

real shrinking violet this guy...if there was real evidence(instead of speculation) that cintron is a poofter,i haven`t seen it...

why?...because there isn`t any...:shrug:

that`s all i`m gonna say...carry on with the echo chamber...:toast:

btw...i still love you guys...:grins:

 

[Ghost Kid]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spo...-for-no-contest-in-loss-to-paul-williams.html

However, the ringside physician who recommended referee Lou Moret pronounce the fight over said he did so only because Cintron told two ringside doctors he could not continue because of back pain.

"I did say I wanted the fight stopped because the fighter twice said he could not continue," Dr. Paul Wallace told The Times on Monday. "He was asked, 'Can you continue?' and he said 'no.'

"Twice. If he had mentioned to me something like, 'Give me a moment ... ,' I understand; these are warriors. Any hint that he still wanted to participate we would've given that to him. We would have got him up and given him a second evaluation."

Doc has ZERO reason to lie. No suprise here. Kermit, once again, is full of shit.

 

[Romi]

simple answer...it`s all speculation....based on the supposition that cintron wasn`t dazed after the fall....and unfortunately,it appears to be based on who`s ox was gored due to the odd circumstance...

and there are no other issues concerning cintron`s willingmness to fight...because he was almost k.o.`ed by martinez and hung in the fight certainly doesn`t establish a history of cowardice...all it establishes is that some gambler`s felt cheated...and that may be true....i understand the hard feelings from the board...but it wasn`t because the guy quit...just the opposite...

he`s been in with margarito twice(who nobody wanted any part of at the time)...he was in tough vs a now pfp martinez.....and he stepped up to fight the guy that nobody wanted to fight.....

real shrinking violet this guy...if there was real evidence(instead of speculation) that cintron is a poofter,i haven`t seen it...

why?...because there isn`t any...:shrug:

that`s all i`m gonna say...carry on with the echo chamber...:toast:

btw...i still love you guys...

I disagree GW. It is based on Cintron's comments and actions. He said "I did not hit my head" after Dibella made the claim he did hit his head. Cintron claims that he told the doctor he was ok and that he just got the wind knocked out of him. The Doctor clearly refutes that. If Cintron in fact said he wasn't dazed then how can anybody make the claim that he was? Or did he actually hit his head (video doesn't catch him hitting his head) and became so dazed and confused that he thinks he didn't hit his head and incorrectly thought he only got the wind knocked out of him??? Cintron can't keep up with his lies. He should have just stuck with I hit my head, suffered a mild concussion and was unable to continue. I'm not sure who said it here (think it was Weepaul) but I think he put it best when he said Cintron is not willing to go to those dark places where few fighters go. In total honesty, I placed my wager believing that PW would eventually take Kermits heart in the fight. I spoke with 2 posters here prior to the fight and they basically felt the same way. Graham also alluded to it in his prefight writeup "The big knock against Cintron is the perception that he is a front runner who lacks mental toughness". I didn't and won't call him a coward but I do believe he wanted an out and found one.

 

[CrazyHorses]

Yes, Kramden, the photos indicate a trip but, watching the video, it seemed that Kermit stumbled a bit, steadied himself, and then just seemed to launch himself out of the ring. It looked to me as if he had recovered his balance OK --- and then he just seemed to take flight. One of the all-time weird endings, that's for sure.

I agree with Graham on this.
Video a much better indication of what happened (no only in this fight, but in life in general. Photos can be SEVERELY misread).

The foot would definitely be enough for a slip into the ropes. But Cintron literally, after clearing Paul's foot, took another push off into the front row.

What he was doing was so abundantly clear to me, that I am just STUNNED that a lot of guys believe him.

But what the hell do I know anyway?
:shrug:
:mj07:

I'm slightly stunned too. This is as clear as day to anyone who has the blindfolds off. The first half step was from momentum forced on him, but after that he CLEARLY took another step and just dived out. Not to mention everything that happened after ..guy holding him up, but Cintron flops himself to the floor...Laying on the ground in agony 142smilie ) And now claiming he wasn't hurt, but the Dr's wouldn't let him continue...There is a serious lack of logic in the whole situation..The dude is a top athlete with a wrestling background and that little tuck and roll took him out of the fight? Yea, injuries happen, but from that little fall. No darn way.

Beyond that...Since we're bringing up the issue of courage from his past, he clearly QUITE and his knockdowns were blatant and obvious SIT DOWNS in the first fight with Margarito. He was crying and writhing on the ground from a broken HAND in a good win... He thinks he wasn't knocked out my Martinez? Now he takes an OBVIOUS DIVE out of the ring, pretends he's hurt and after the fact saying he was okay to go on? Yea, this guy is a warrior.

I'm not sure how anyone can look at that video of him falling out of the ring and think it wasn't of his own accord, let alone him being hurt by it and all the crap that followed after.

 

[CrazyHorses]

Cintron can't keep up with his lies. He should have just stuck with I hit my head, suffered a mild concussion and was unable to continue. I'm not sure who said it here (think it was Weepaul) but I think he put it best when he said Cintron is not willing to go to those dark places where few fighters go.

Karma.

:flush: Dude flushed himself down the toilet by adding crap to the bull he already played.

 

[Ghost Kid]

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I think whoever made this is going to have a sequel now after this past weekend
:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

 

[THE_THONG]

yes, he is

he acted greater than sliced bread when he was counted out against Martinez but found a way to game the ref

 

[olddirtyfighter]

Didn't the Williams Inside prop count for technical decisions as well? I understand the 12 round decision prop losing because the fight only went 4 BUT I would imagine Williams winning in ANY other way KO/TKO/DQ/Tech. Dech would make your other wager a winner, no?

Unfortunately no. Most euro books has props divided like this:
- fighter A wins by a way of KO/TKO/Disq.
- fighter A wins by a way of Dec/Tech. Dec.
So I took KO prop in euro book and decision prop at 5d. I forgot AGAIN that it is worth only if bout goes full route and realized my mistake when I saw confirmation screen But of course I expected to get away with that.

You can guess the expression on my face when Kermit decided to fly away :mj07:

 

[Kramden]

More dead horse beating

More dead horse beating

I'm on an island on this one. I believe Cintron had a clear head and was fighting well. He was able to time Williams and beat him to the punch.

Williams didn't know what to do with him so he tried to increase the pace. He landed something but Cintron punched back with a better shot.

Cintron was under absolutely no distress from the Williams fight. You all think he wanted out of the fight but he was nary touched. He's gone through way more treacherous water than he has in this fight. 30 seconds of fairly ineffective pressure from Williams didn't cause Cintron to jump out of the ring in fear. That is plainly ludicrous.

Williams would have gotten timed with big shots if he kept up with that aggression.
The momentum and Williams caused Cintron to cannon ball out of the ring.

No fucking way did he jump out to avoid the fight. Williams would have to do way more than he did to get Cintron to implode. Cintron was very comfortable in there, and I think he would have won.

Williams has lost something and he's beginning to remind me of the that big spider Russell Jordan.

I believe it's possible Cintron said he couldn't continue early on after the fall but don't forget, those docs work for Goossen. And only 4 minutes elapsed since the spill and the stretcher where you can see Cintron vigorously objecting to the stretcher.

It appears that he was ready within the requisite 5 minutes. He probably felt pretty bad 6 seconds after it happened but by the time he was strapped up, he was OK. Those docs were keeping him down.

Long story short, Cintron was given the shaft-straight up his ass.

And to add insult to injury as they were taking Cintron away, strapped in on the stretcher as if he were a mental patient, the scores against him were read. That was kind of funny but plain wrong.

:142smilie :142smilie :142smilie :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

 

[THE_THONG]

:s5:

looks like the horse has been beaten dead on this subject

phd candidates have spent less time on their dissertations
:mj07:

 

[Ghost Kid]

Steve Kim's Twitter:

"the consensus at the Wild Card Gym is that Kermit Cintron leapt outta the ring in a single bound like Superman this weekend #boxing"

 

[Ghost Kid]

Can't claim this post, but someone wrote it on another forum:

"There is a young generation of dedicated actors in boxing at the moment. Names like Cintron, Dirrell, Clottey... but they are going to have to take it to the next level, if they are to reach the artistry of a Hopkins. He has, until his last fight at least, been able to use his acting skills to benefit him in the ring and gain real advantages over opponents. So far the aforementioned fighters have made poor acting choices and largely hurt their careers with thin characterizations and tepid acting.

Until they show some proper restraint and a willingness to commit more fully when necessary, these young thespians will suffer by comparison to the old master, who was willing to do a prat fall faint in the dressing room of his last bout, and stay at the hospital overnight to try and sell his performance.

That is dedication.

That is artistry.

That... is acting."

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

Well played.

 

[olddirtyfighter]

Well played indeed.

 

[CrazyHorses]

I'm on an island on this one. I believe Cintron had a clear head and was fighting well. He was able to time Williams and beat him to the punch.

Williams didn't know what to do with him so he tried to increase the pace. He landed something but Cintron punched back with a better shot.

Cintron was under absolutely no distress from the Williams fight. You all think he wanted out of the fight but he was nary touched. He's gone through way more treacherous water than he has in this fight. 30 seconds of fairly ineffective pressure from Williams didn't cause Cintron to jump out of the ring in fear. That is plainly ludicrous.

Williams would have gotten timed with big shots if he kept up with that aggression.
The momentum and Williams caused Cintron to cannon ball out of the ring.

No fucking way did he jump out to avoid the fight. Williams would have to do way more than he did to get Cintron to implode. Cintron was very comfortable in there, and I think he would have won.

Williams has lost something and he's beginning to remind me of the that big spider Russell Jordan.

I believe it's possible Cintron said he couldn't continue early on after the fall but don't forget, those docs work for Goossen. And only 4 minutes elapsed since the spill and the stretcher where you can see Cintron vigorously objecting to the stretcher.

It appears that he was ready within the requisite 5 minutes. He probably felt pretty bad 6 seconds after it happened but by the time he was strapped up, he was OK. Those docs were keeping him down.

Long story short, Cintron was given the shaft-straight up his ass.

And to add insult to injury as they were taking Cintron away, strapped in on the stretcher as if he were a mental patient, the scores against him were read. That was kind of funny but plain wrong.

:142smilie :142smilie :142smilie :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

The dive in the Williams fight reminds of the KD's in Margarito Cintron 1 where Cintron just kind of sat down. He wasn't hurt or knocked out, he just kind of let his body continue in the direction it was somewhat headed and sat down to keep the shots from coming. Even gave himself a little scoot after he sat down the 2nd time for good measure.

I actually think (after seeing the first 4 rounds, not saying I liked him before the fight) Cintron was a good pick in this fight and if he hadn't of gone swimming so to speak, it might of come through, but if you think CINTRON got shafted in this one... ..

I don't know why he took the jump. I'm certainly not saying I think he consciously thought it through (I'm losing the fight, I'm going to dive through the ropes and hope for a NC or TD) or that he was under distress. I will say that he took the dive and that the landing from that dive, tuck and roll wouldn't of hurt an out of shape man let alone take a world class athlete out of a match like this.

At least Williams got the win, but it's a shame not the TKO after Cintron took himself out like that. Would of been one of boxing's biggest travesty's in a while had Cintron won that TD.

 

[weepaul]

Look,

I am one of the few posters here who bet on Kermit as I believe Williams is going downhill fast.

This is my objective opinion-

Kermit could have continued but made a choice not to.
This is not because he is a coward but he would rather be paid the same amount of money without taking anymore punches or RISK.

He probably thought the same as every poster here, the fight will be a no-contest, he gets paid without taking another punch and probably gets a rematch and is paid AGAIN.

You get the Juan Manuel Marquez of the World.
Ref Cole "Juan, you are ahead on points if we stop the fight due to cut caused by accidental butt".
Juan "Fuck that, I'm going out and beat the shit out of this dude".

Kermit, not so much.