Boxing 5/6 - 5/9

[Quanah]

another post from a smart boxing forum poster:

"Why is anyone choosing to defend Cintron here?

The guy took two steps and then dove out of the ring. He didn't have that much momentum to be flung out of the ring like that. He didn't even really trip. He took two steps and willingly dove out. That's what went down, and no explanation about instinctually diving over objects like he's trying to save a ball from going out of bounds doesn't fly with me.

The 'dangerous objects' were outside of the ring ropes. (If) He doesn't catapult himself out, he simply falls into the ropes and the fight continues."

But he didn't do that. It was a perfect dive right through the ropes, barely touching them. Con artist.

Greg Louganis would be proud - very proud.

:142smilie

Even if all of this is true, that Cintron purposefully took this kind of a dive, doesn't it take some degree of courage to fling yourself head first, with no arms or hands to break your fall, onto a hard table...and then...roll yourself off of that table and smack down hard onto what was probably a concrete floor? That has to hurt at least as much as a few shots from Williams...

Ah, enough about the frog. Iza gots to get into some research for next week.

Are they really gonna hold that Quezada wager for 60 days.... Sheet.

 

[CrazyHorses]

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be repeated to get it through, but California rules is once the forth round has started, it's a fight.

Also, good to see Graham holds the same opinion on it should of been a TKO for Paul Williams. Thought surely I'd be alone on that thought.

The dude hurt himself. He wasn't pushed and wasn't forced out. And certainly didn't do much to stop himself from ending up outside the ring. He even took it a step further and rolled himself off the table onto the floor. If you hurt yourself and can't continue, it should be a TKO for the opposing fighter. Whether he jumped or flung himself out, or legitimately fell out, it was his own actions that caused him to end up on the floor. Paul Williams didn't push him out, did he?

 

[CrazyHorses]

:142smilie

Even if all of this is true, that Cintron purposefully took this kind of a dive, doesn't it take some degree of courage to fling yourself head first, with no arms or hands to break your fall, onto a hard table...and then...roll yourself off of that table and smack down hard onto what was probably a concrete floor? That has to hurt at least as much as a few shots from Williams...

Ah, enough about the frog. Iza gots to get into some research for next week.

Are they really gonna hold that Quezada wager for 60 days.... Sheet.

Probably would of been a lot easier to just put his hands up and stop himself from going through in the first place.

 

[Romi]

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be repeated to get it through, but California rules is once the forth round has started, it's a fight.

Also, good to see Graham holds the same opinion on it should of been a TKO for Paul Williams. Thought surely I'd be alone on that thought. The dude hurt himself. He wasn't pushed and wasn't forced out. And certainly didn't do much to stop himself from ending up outside the ring. He even took it a step further and rolled himself off the table onto the floor. If you hurt yourself and can't continue, it should be a TKO for the opposing fighter. Whether he jumped or flung himself out, or legitimately fell out, it was his own actions that caused him to end up on the floor. Paul Williams didn't push him out, did he?

Not sure why that decision eluded most of us but it's the most obvious and logical. Kermit caused his own injury and he couldn't continue...hence it SHOULD have been a tko victory for PW. Whether it was an accident or intentional on Kerms part is irrelevant. PW did not cause his injury. I've spoken to a few people about this and after they saw the replay, they believe he launched himself out of the ring intentionally, once things got a bit heated for him. Based on Cintrons past history, I believe he wanted out. He was immobile for several minutes then he gets put on a gurney and all of a sudden he wants to fight. Dibella attempted to save face by claiming Kerm hit his head. Kerm said he didn't hit his head and he just got the wind knocked out of him...ok then get on your fvcking knees and take some air instead of acting paralyzed.

A bit off topic but now watching HBO's miniseries Pacific...these dudes were true warriors. I highly reccommend it for anybody who hasn't seen it.

 

[Ghost Kid]

One of the games truest warriors
Kermit The Frog
He wanted to fight
He really did
It must have taken 5 or 6 paramedics to hold him on that stretcher
He was pushing them away, trying desperately to undo all those belts
but nobody would listen!
He wanted to fight !
:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

 

[CrazyHorses]

Beating a dead horse here

Beating a dead horse here

I just watched this again, and I'm sorry, anyone who thinks that was a legitimate slip/fall needs to look at this one again.

There was no momentum other than what he gave himself when he took 2 steps and jumped out of the ring. Maybe SOME slight momentum with the first half step, but nothing is tripping him up. He hurled himself further AND took an extra step for good measure!

Even if it was momentum other than his own (trip/slip whatever), he fucking DIVED and rolled out of the ring. Why didn't he just put his arms up and catch himself on the ropes.

AND, he didn't land hard OR from a great height. It was a nice little roll he pulled off there.

This guy is supposed to be a tip top shape athlete? And a sad little fall/dive like that takes you out of a world class boxing match?

IMO he had 4 chances to save himself there. 1) Simply stop running in the direction that leads you out of the ring (the extra step and momentum he gave himself is obvious) 2) Put your f'n hands up and at least make an attempt to catch yourself 3) Don't be so friggin dramatic with such a sad little fall after the fact. 4) Actually make a real attempt to get up and get back into the ring when all the doctors were looking at him.

I really need to emphasize that that trip/fall/dive looked anything but painful. He dive rolled out of the ring very slick like...Nothing actually hit hard. He rolled himself into a sitting position and then just fell on the floor. It was a nice use of wrestling technique you have to give him that... Man

This should have been none other than a TKO for Williams as Romi and Graham have stated. Can you IMAGINE if Cintron had been on the other side of the TD after that had happened? Picture Cintron as the winner of that fight after diving out of the ring like that.

My 2 year old NIECE would of been up and ready to fight quicker than Cintron from that.

 

[gardenweasel]

not arguing the tko/decision issue....but i think graham`s way off base as far as the "who knows whether cintron dove out of the ring" intimation.....that`s just fanning the flames of more ridiculous supposition.......imo...

anybody that thinks the guy just dove out of the ring needs to check themself...this was no different than hopkins/allen...two guys became entangled and one guy ended up through the ropes...it can happen....hopkins and allen proved it...and that`s only one example of many...
regardless of how a gambler wants to perceive what happened(the key word being "gambler")...

if cintron thought this through on the spur of the moment...in a split second encounter early in an even fight....then the guy is lionel barrymore reincarnate....

as i said..i love the guys here....but i`m not checking my brain at the door.....we need a little tough love here.... we`re letting our financial interests and pre-determined biases cloud our objective thinking.....

could the guy have jumped up and continued?...i don`t know...i have no way of knowing...but,i`m usually reticent to make statements like this...i`m more apt to be willing to give a pro the benefit of the doubt...not an easy job these guys have...

we`re basically calling the guy a coward...just say it out loud...don`t dance arounnd the periphery...

man up...

 

[olddirtyfighter]

we`re basically calling the guy a coward...just say it out loud...don`t dance arounnd the periphery...

man up...

I don't get the point of your post.

Who is exactly dancing around?
Guys who stated their opinion on this board did it straight forward.
Cintron is a head case. Guy to this day doesn't admit he was KOed by Martinez. Like that isn't enough, he claims he should have gotten that decision. Now he claims Paul pulled him down and after that blames the docs when he himself was not moving until put on the stretcher.
I don't like this guy.

 

[gardenweasel]

I don't get the point of your post.

Who is exactly dancing around?
Guys who stated their opinion on this board did it straight forward.
Cintron is a head case. Guy to this day doesn't admit he was KOed by Martinez. Like that isn't enough, he claims he should have gotten that decision. Now he claims Paul pulled him down and after that blames the docs when he himself was not moving until put on the stretcher.
I don't like this guy.

he was k.o.`ed by martinez...or probably would have been....that`s not what happend here,though..in that case he kept himself in the fight,fair or not....shrewd but certainly not cowardly...

guys are calling him a coward in a "roundabout" manner...that get`s my back up a bit...

and if you`re familiar with any kind of fall injuries,it`s protocol to keep the person down until they`re stabilized and "boarded"...

i`ll go back and check,but i`m pretty sure the doctor told him to stay down at some point...

 

[gardenweasel]

not arguing the tko/decision issue....but i think graham`s way off base as far as the "who knows whether cintron dove out of the ring" intimation.....that`s just fanning the flames of more ridiculous supposition.......imo...

..

i misspoke here...certainly graham(more so than most) has every right to voice his opinion on the matter...i apologize...

i know i won`t win any popularity contests on the board ,but,it`s just my opinion...it`s not personal...

 

[Fightwriter]

No problem GW

No problem GW

i misspoke here...certainly graham(more so than most) has every right to voice his opinion on the matter...i apologize...

i know i won`t win any popularity contests on the board ,but,it`s just my opinion...it`s not personal...

Criticism goes with the territory GW but I winced a bit at the "fanning the flames of ridiculous supposition" line. All I was saying was that no one could really know what was going through Cintron's mind when he jumped through the ropes. Maybe he would say he jumped through the ropes because he thought it would be safer than falling INTO the ropes? Maybe it was a moment of madness? He has never been the most stable of characters in the ring. The "KO prop" players were very unlucky here. That should have been a TKO win for Williams.

 

[CrazyHorses]

I don't think he actually thought things through in a conscious sense when he dove out of the ring. It was a reaction, an instinct, a habit, lack of will to continue. Semantics. He easily gave in to the direction he was headed.

And okay you want to give the benefit of the doubt...

His not taking propelling himself further towards the ropes?

Not even attempting to keep himself from flying out? And actually doing the opposite, reaching for the table and pulling off a sweet little tumble.

Forceably flopping himself off the table after a minor dive roll even when he had people holding him up?

Not getting the fuck back up and into the ring? That wasn't even a fall. It was a dive roll and a flopping of himself. If he really was hurt, why is he crying now that the Dr's forced him out? haha...My god man.

Now he's quitting the sport of boxing if the decision isn't reversed? If he wasn't hurt enough for the Dr's to call off the fight, why the was he just laying on the ground like and then letting himself be carried away on the stretcher?

I'm not trying to round about call him a coward. I don't think he's a coward.

But, I would say he hasn't quite got the heart for this. He's proved it time and again with his crying and now this fight more than ever. This sort of thing isn't a one time occurrence with him.

He had all the opportunity in the world to prove his naysayers wrong in those couple of seconds and following few minutes. I could give him the benefit of the doubt - if he gave me reason too, but all he did was give reasons not.

 

[gardenweasel]

Criticism goes with the territory GW but I winced a bit at the "fanning the flames of ridiculous supposition" line. .

:lol: ..again,sorry...i`m just shocked that the guy`s courage is being questioned...

my guess is that(if all the supposition is correct,that is), that he`ll turn down a rematch......unless he believes that he can get away with the pogo move yet again....

apparently,williams is so feared that even when guys actually do work up the coutage to fight him,they`re literally hopping out of the ring after roughly 10 minutes of hellacious abuse...

:shrug:

 

[Fightwriter]

Nicely put

Nicely put

I don't think he actually thought things through in a conscious sense when he dove out of the ring. It was a reaction, an instinct, a habit, lack of will to continue. Semantics. He easily gave in to the direction he was headed.

And okay you want to give the benefit of the doubt...

His not taking propelling himself further towards the ropes?

Not even attempting to keep himself from flying out? And actually doing the opposite, reaching for the table and pulling off a sweet little tumble.

Forceably flopping himself off the table after a minor dive roll even when he had people holding him up?

Not getting the fuck back up and into the ring? That wasn't even a fall. It was a dive roll and a flopping of himself. If he really was hurt, why is he crying now that the Dr's forced him out? haha...My god man.

Now he's quitting the sport of boxing if the decision isn't reversed? If he wasn't hurt enough for the Dr's to call off the fight, why the was he just laying on the ground like and then letting himself be carried away on the stretcher?

I'm not trying to round about call him a coward. I don't think he's a coward.

But, I would say he hasn't quite got the heart for this. He's proved it time and again with his crying and now this fight more than ever. This sort of thing isn't a one time occurrence with him.

He had all the opportunity in the world to prove his naysayers wrong in those couple of seconds and following few minutes. I could give him the benefit of the doubt - if he gave me reason too, but all he did was give reasons not.

I think you summed it up perfectly. Kermit hasn't quite got the heart for this.

 

[gardenweasel]

I


Not getting the fuck back up and into the ring? That wasn't even a fall. It was a dive roll and a flopping of himself. If he really was hurt, why is he crying now that the Dr's forced him out? haha...My god man.

Now he's quitting the sport of boxing if the decision isn't reversed? If he wasn't hurt enough for the Dr's to call off the fight, why the was he just laying on the ground like and then letting himself be carried away on the stretcher?

I'm not trying to round about call him a coward. I don't think he's a coward.

But, I would say he hasn't quite got the heart for this. He's proved it time and again with his crying and now this fight more than ever. This sort of thing isn't a one time occurrence with him.

He had all the opportunity in the world to prove his naysayers wrong in those couple of seconds and following few minutes. I could give him the benefit of the doubt - if he gave me reason too, but all he did was give reasons not.

is it possible that he was stunned?...is that even remotely possible?...looked like he hit his head on that table to me...was he stunned by something williams threw?...

i don`t know...and neither does anyone else..

and what instances would prove to you that the guy "doesn`t have the heart for it"?...

being stunned by martinez and doing everything in his power not to have the fight stopped?...surely he could have taken the easy way out...instead he hung in(legit or not) after being badly hurt and finished the fight....

maybe taking the second fight wiith margarito after being pummeled by a guy that probably had plaster of paris in his gloves?...

all fighters make excuses........i see nothing that would indicate the guy`s lacking heart...

has he ever tried to quit in his corner ala ali?...

if so,i`m not aware of it...

you guys are playing fast and loose with people`s reputations....and it`s unbecoming...

 

[olddirtyfighter]

you guys are playing fast and loose with people`s reputations....and it`s unbecoming...

Keep in mind this is a message board. We are posting under nicks. You can't expect political correctness of professional journalist here. You are good guy and you are sympathetic with a guy everybody is against but come on. You are beating the dead horse. I don't see that anybody being malicious. People here knows boxing and when they use word coward they mean in a "coward for a boxer" way.

 

[CrazyHorses]

All other things (including the crying) aside, saying now that he wanted and was ready to fight, but flopped himself onto the floor and just laid there instead showing no will to continue. But now claiming he was ready, wanted to fight and will quite boxing if the decision isn't reversed?

All other things aside, these 2 things just don't mesh. They are headed in opposite directions. If you can't see the bull here...

...People lay their own reputations. This is a trail, not a single drop.

 

[Ghost Kid]

a guy on the eastside boards posted this exclusive angle of the Cintron fall - what do you guys think?
Real or fake?
:mj07:

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[weepaul]

It's not just the flopping out of the ring. It's the bullshit he is now spouting.

He was ready, willing and able to fight. He might have been able but the rest is bullshit.

The reason he tumbled out of the ring is because he hurt Paul so badly that as Paul was falling from this non-existant, devastating punch, he grabbed at Kermit to stop himself from being knocked down. Once again, Bullshit.

I don't believe any fighter is a coward but some are willing to go to a dark place and endure what most humans won't.
Kermit is not one of these guys and there is nothing wrong with that as they are a VERY rare breed..

I believe Kermit saw a payday and potential win without the need to compete anymore and took his chances.

He had given a good account of himself and things were only going to get worse as the fight wore on because Kermit is a front-runner.

He is not a coward just a chancer. :shrug:

 

[Kramden]

Did Paul trip him out?

Did Paul trip him out?