Paq-DeLaHoya- I love this

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
Regarding Oscar:

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=17402

let the finger pointing begin

excellent article,g.k...very interesting.........i like what frankie baltazar sr. closed the article with.....that`s what it looked like to me....

some folks mentioned terry norris and ray leonard....this same thing happened to terry norris...he hit the wall against keith mullings(a decent fighter,nothing special),too... and was never the same guy...

i just pray there`s no rematch.....
 

weepaul

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Someone already made the perfect comment in my opinion.

If Cotto had entered the ring against Paulie in the same condition as he was for the weigh in, he would have been knocked out.
Cotto came in replenished and busted Paulie up.

DLH came in as a dead man walking, fighting at roughly his weigh in weight.
He did not replenish and paid the price big time, AS DID WE ALL!!!
 

nj

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I just re-watched the fight. Some thoughts:

1) literally once per round in 4-8, Oscar came up with a flurry of 4 or 5 straight punches, thrown fast with decent technique and accuracy. So where the fuck was that the other 2:50 of each round? I can understand old fighters fighting in flurries, but he literally threw ONE flurry per round. That's unbelievable

2) Pac is beatable. The first time I was focused on how good Manny was, this time I focused on how bad Oscar was. Manny showed better head movement and better lateral footwork, but not to the degree I had thought. I think he beats Hatton since Hatton is also a straight in-and-out puncher with low head movement and is available to hit. I think Pacquiao out-quicks Hatton and wins on volume, Mayweather Sr needs at least a year to mold Hatton into an all-around boxer.

3) Im more convinced PBF beats Pac, especially if it's 147. PBF would be surprised by Pac's speed and maybe lose 4 of the first 6 rds, but he would figure him out and dominate the latter half. Pac is still too simple to beat someone as dynamic and intelligent as Floyd Jr.

4) JMM can beat Pac (for the third time), in the unlikely scenario Pac moves back to 135. Pac was still too straight in-and-out and predictable, Marquez can still time his counters as he has. The higher the weight, the more advantage to Pac. I love JMM, but at 140 he'd be a certain loser.
 

Ghost Kid

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Good to see u Mr. NJ

I totally agree with your assessments on Hatton and Mayweather

If you can hurt Hatton you can beat him....I think Pac can hurt him

Mayweather I believe, is too talented and too smart for Pac (and not a P-U-S-S-Y like Oscar)....I think Pretty Boy wins

JMM a third time...hadn't even considered it...but would love to see it !

this was so much more about what Oscar didn't bring....he f'ed a lot of players and totally embarrassed himself...
 

nj

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Thanks Mr. Ghost Kid, I appreciate the mention. This is my first post on any forum since Saturday, and I have a dozen emails waiting for a reply. I couldn't get images from the bout out of my head.

Watching it a second time is actually therapeutic, I'm not as hard on myself about not betting Pac live. I also realize Pac wasn't that spectacular, and that the Hoya that fought Forbes would beat him. We couldn't predict he'd fight that flat, just as we couldn't predict Forrest or P Will would be flat in recent years.

You guys are right when you say we should let ourselves off the hook for the bet, but it sounds like most of us just wagered too big, myself included.

With much less disposable income, I humbly return for the weekend's bouts.
 

punchmaster

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Good to see u Mr. NJ

I totally agree with your assessments on Hatton and Mayweather

If you can hurt Hatton you can beat him....I think Pac can hurt him

Mayweather I believe, is too talented and too smart for Pac (and not a P-U-S-S-Y like Oscar)....I think Pretty Boy wins

JMM a third time...hadn't even considered it...but would love to see it !

this was so much more about what Oscar didn't bring....he f'ed a lot of players and totally embarrassed himself...


I dunno- the despicable Money May has been on the shelf for a while , not keeping sharp fighting world class competition and you get Freddie Roach and Pac togther for another 3 month focused training camp and that's a hell of a fight. At a 144 catch weight, Paq should be about as fast as anyone May's faced and it's not as if southpaws Judah or Corley had trouble landing a few good shots early, with both stunning Mayweather. iunnon
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
be careful not to overreact to oscar not showing up.....

a small live body with skill and stamina did everything but beat manny(jmm)......and larios,as some on here mentioned,buzzed him...


if dlh had actually come to fight,i`d agree...but from all accounts,dlh just wasn`t there...it was a walkover...

i`m gonna wait until i see it this weekend before crowning manny king shit of turd island....
 

crow

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People saying he left the fight in the gym don't know what they are talking about.
That's PR stuff.

What really hapened is Hoya started dieting way, way to soon.
That's different than saying he trained too hard.

He looked very slim MONTHS in advance. He couldn't train properly because of that. He couldn't replenish because there was nothing to replenish.This was his new weight.

Hoya entoured himself with YES mens, too afraid to tell him the truth ( and that includes Nancho and Dundee) and grew delusional about his physical state at this new weight.

His stupid habit on switching trainers left him with no one able to asses his performances in the gym and tell him face to face.

" I did this to myself " YOU BET YOU DID !
 
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Ghost Kid

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In retrospect, these numbers mean a lot more:

2008-12-06 145 Manny Pacquiao
2008-05-03 150 Steve Forbes
2007-05-05 154 Floyd Mayweather
2006-05-06 153.5 Ricardo Mayorga
2004-09-18 155 Bernard Hopkins
2004-06-05 160 Felix Sturm

Remember him running around the gym on 24-7?

"I been on weight for weeks!"

jumping on the scale, to prove it, every episode?

Ugh. It's a professional prize fight, not the Celebrity Fit Club!

Thanks a lot, Oscar. you suck.
 

punchmaster

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Watching it a second time is actually therapeutic, I'm not as hard on myself about not betting Pac live. I also realize Pac wasn't that spectacular, and that the Hoya that fought Forbes would beat him. We couldn't predict he'd fight that flat, just as we couldn't predict Forrest or P Will would be flat in recent years.

You guys are right when you say we should let ourselves off the hook for the bet, but it sounds like most of us just wagered too big, myself included.


Very questionable statement. The Hoya that beat Forbes didn't wow anyone( also had a facial fracture) and yes, it certainly looks like Hoya overtrained and left a lot of his fight in they gym but it could very easily be that Manny just would have kicked his ass a litte less. No one is overreacting or saying Manny is a God but he's getting little credit for executing a strategy perfectly. I'm a huge JMM fan but I'm not blind in that Manny may have really been struggling to get down to that 130 for their second fight. Heck , he didn't look all that great on the scales before the Diaz fight at 135.
 

punchmaster

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People saying he left the fight in the gym don't know what they are talking about.
That's PR stuff.

What really hapened is Hoya started dieting way, way to soon.
That's different than saying he trained too hard.

He looked very slim MONTHS in advance. He couldn't train properly because of that. He couldn't replenish because there was nothing to replenish.This was his new weight.

Hoya entoured himself with YES mens, too afraid to tell him the truth ( and that includes Nancho and Dundee) and grew delusional about his physical state at this new weight.

His stupid habit on switching trainers left him with no one able to asses his performances in the gym and tell him face to face.

" I did this to myself " YOU BET YOU DID !


Correct- he made weight way to early, but with all the experts around him- his nutritional guru etc, with this much time in the game of boxing, how could a team make such a huge error for such a big fight. You talk to any high school wrestler (as I did) and they will tell you he made weight way too early.
 

crow

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with all the experts around him- his nutritional guru etc, with this much time in the game of boxing, how could a team make such a huge error for such a big fight.

Fact even more incomprehensible as he weighed 150 for the Forbes fight 6 months ago.

OR DID HE ??

If Oscar cheated on the scales for the Forbes fight it would explain his obsession on dieting and why his body looked so depleted for this 147 fight.

Payback time, as they say.
 

Ghost Kid

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Great stuff from Hauser:

http://www.maxboxing.com/Hauser/Hauser121808.asp

"De La Hoya-Pacquiao, critics said, would be ?David without a slingshot against Goliath? . . . ?A con job; not a fight.? It was suggested that ?The Dream Match? be re-titled ?The Final Rip-Off? or ?The Golden Fleece.?
...

Still, the odds were remarkably close. De La Hoya opened as an 8-to-5 favorite at the MGM Grand Sports Book. Initially, the online bookies had Oscar favored at 3-to-1, but that gap quickly narrowed. Thereafter, the betting line consistently favored De La Hoya, but only between 3-to-2 and 2-to-1. People kept waiting for the ?smart? money to come in on Oscar.

Expectation and reality are two different things. The smart money was already coming in. But it was coming in on Pacquiao. "
 
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