Should the sale and use of prostitues be legalized?

[Heater]

yyz,

No - I don't see where you can draw that conclusion about my preference, if any, for hookers. Don't read what isn't there.

Nope - the term "black people" isn't racist. It is a fairly objective observation of skin pigmentation. You've been overrun by PC ideas and now you can't tell the difference between real racism, and someone's refusal to adopt a PC world view.

Yeah - I still don't see where I am "fenced in that same yard." maybe you can articulate it more clearly. Probably not though as you seem to be a graduate of the same school as the good doctor freeze; make claims based on opinion, fail to support said opinion with any facts.

Life's lessons are best learned through open and honest examination of the facts, which is what I am doing.

Since you are unable to rebutt the logic of the argument, you attack the person. Typical ad hominem abusive - a logical fallacy. Try putting your thoughts into a syllogism and then see if it is a tautology. More times than not in your case, you will have to re-examine the premises upon which your faulty logic rests.

OK now - class dismissed!

 

[hello there]

Wow, for the idiot who bets his "Entire Account" on games, I must have made a very good point in my post about "why I think they should legalize prostitution," because no one is trying to challenge it. ::::;pats self on back::::

 

[Chopsticks]

dr. freeze,

Though I commend your moral aspects of life and the way a man should "demonstrate" himself, I need you to ask yourself this. Am I as honest to myself as I portray I am to everyone I preach too? Like I said before that no one is perfect, and I stand by my point about it being all cultural. You mean to tell me, though restrained, you've never had an immoral thought in your life? You've never joked around with a friend or a male family member about wanting to "do" some girl? Please don't come off as some self righteous person who has nevered sinned. Maybe you speak of how the nucleus of family life here in the United States might fall apart due to prostitution, but you can't speak on behalf for the entire world. Culturally, and not morally speaking, you have no bases for legalization of prostitution. Please explain to me why then that other countries that have legalized prostitution do not have as high rates as the United States does for single mothers and for divorces. I'm dying to know the Utopial secret.

 

[Heater]

Doctor Freeze:

Who said anything about stealing or cheating on a test? You are constructing a Straw Man fallacy, which is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

I don't know where the stealing came in, but as far as someone cheating on their spouse, which by the way is not always the case with men visiting hookers, what business is it of yours? None, Nada, Nil, Zilch, Zero, Zip brother. So why then must you insist on being the morality police?

I never said I agree with moral relativism either. Yet another Straw Man creation from you. Can you just stick to the issues raised without dragging in other, unrelated exaggerated issues?

You say that: "also -- moral relativism has destroyed every culture that ever existed....'everyone did what was right in his eyes' has brought down many a nation....."

How about an example? I say it is yet another unsubstantiated, self-serving claim. A claim, as is your wont, without a single fact to back it up!

No one said there were no rights or wrongs here doc. You want to stretch what is being said out of shape so it doesn't resemble what the other person is arguing so that you can easily rebutt the distorted argument. The problem is: you are rebutting arguments that no one has made !

You must discover the difference between mala prohibita and mala in se. Mala prohibita is illegal because the government says it is illegal - like gambling not sanctioned by the state or parking in someone else's parking spot for example; and mala in se is illegal because it is universally held to be evil - like stealing and murder.

Don't forget many people hold a very low opinion of gambling and gamblers. I can substitute "gambling," for "prostitution," in your statement and what you have is the same opinion on a different issue. See:

"Gambling HURTS families. It ruins marriages, and scars children for life."

There you go - someone else's moral view, which they would like to impose on you. Same exact argument as both activities (gambling and prostitution) and mala prohibita, and not mala in se.

As far as looking to the Bible for what is right and wrong, you be better served using the pages to wipe your butt. The whole thing is a fairly tale, concocted centuries after the events were supposed to have happened. The Catholic Church voted on what would go in and what would not. Is that how you relay "God's Word"? I think not. Maybe they should have devoted a chapter or two about not abusing innocent children.

My .03 (inflation dontcha know)

 

[Chopsticks]

Heater,

Very impressive I must say. I also think, by dr. freeze's other thread about legal advice, he's a single man. Unless the doc is a very young man that just graduated college, just got married, and is building his nest egg, he wouldn't be living in an apartment complex. Very few married people "rent." Though going through a very messy separation, I have never cheated on my partner and we have 2 beautiful twins from the time we had spent together. How can you impose a married man's opinion on someone when you yourself are not married? If I am incorrect about you, my apologies. But if I'm right, my question stands.

 

[yyz]

Spare me, savant.......Christ, you couldn't even see the tongue in cheek in the first part of my post, you're so hung up on being the town clown.

You say the term "black people" isn't racist? In who's eyes? Yours? I believe that plenty of "black" people find the term racial. Just because you don't feel that way, doesn't make it not so.

You call it a "fairly objective observation of skin pigmentation".

Well, again.....some might say they are "light brown", or "highly tanned", or "effetely white snobishly challenged". So, the "fairly objective observation" is what you choose to see. So, you choose to use terms that, once again, have you dangling from your "languistic leash".

I would agree that the term African American is far to overused. If you were born here, you are American, period.

Since you are unable to rebutt(sic) the logic of the argument...

Well......You said "black people" was not a racist term. I said it was. Here's the rebuttal: Quite a few persons of African lineage are offended by the term "black people". There......clear, concise, and rebutted to a t!

But, hell......Ive been "overrun with PC ideas", right? I just love you kids who turn 20, and think you know how the fuking world turns.

Life's lessons are best learned through open and honest examination of the facts, which is what I am doing.

Facts? 2+2=4...... That is a fact. But then numbers are a black and white issue. (No pun intended)

I can walk outside my front door, right now, and yell at the top of my lungs, "I hate black people!" and not too many folks would care that I said it. Now, I could yell that same thing heading back to my car from a Blackhawks game, and guess what? I wouldn't make it back to that car! (By the way. The "Blackhawks" are a professional sports franchise, based in Chicago, Illinois. I thought I'd fill you in on that, since you seem to be here for other purposes than sports, and might not know.)

That is an open and honest examination of the facts, Jack.


When you know a little more about life, than what you learn in the hallowed halls of State U, give us peons a sermon. Until then, please refrain from the intelectual whippings.

I may not always form my thoughts syllogistically, so I'm glad the forum readers have the ability to comprehend what I write, but most everything I put forth is tautological.


Now, if the one view you choose to make a stand on in here is how a bunch of bumpkins like us can call "black people" African Americans, I question your ability to differentiate between what's meaningful, and what is not, in the world of debate and discussion.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have some games to look at for today........

 

[Heater]

Gambling Ruins Lives

Gambling Ruins Lives

Here ya go Doc:

In his influential book, The Luck Business: The Devastating Consequences and Broken Promises of America's Gambling Explosion (Free Press, 1995), author Robert Goodman writes that gambling "cannibalizes" other businesses.

"Huge portions of discretionary consumer dollars are being diverted into gambling," writes Goodman, a professor of environmental design and planning at Hampshire College in Amherst, Mass., and director of the 1992 United States Gambling Study.

"Police departments must contend with a whole new range of criminal activity, much of it caused by addicted gamblers. Along with the devastating human tragedies ... come additional private and public costs, ranging from money lost by people who make loans to problem gamblers and aren't paid back, to the cost of treating, prosecuting or, in some cases, incarcerating problem gamblers."

The Rev. John Green, pastor of Covenant Community Church in Greenwell Springs, La., said he's grown frustrated with the increasing number of calls from gamblers who can't pay their utility bills, can't buy food, or can't afford to repair their cars.

"I'm going to start referring these people to the casinos. I really will," Green told Citizen. "And when the casinos refuse to pay their bills, buy their food or fix their cars, and they come back to me, I'll help them. But there will be accountability."

Green's experience is shared by virtually every church, charitable organization and crisis hotline in the state, said Perkins, the anti-gambling legislator.

Perkins and his family serve dinner once a month at the Baton Rouge Rescue Mission. One day, Perkins met a man at the shelter who spoke well and seemed well-educated.

"I asked how he became homeless," Perkins said. "He told me that he had lost $35,000 playing video poker ? $25,000 of that he had embezzled from his brother's convenience store."

C.B. Forgotston, a New Orleans lobbyist and longtime gambling opponent, is a regular guest on local radio talk shows. One day, a caller to station WTIX-AM in New Orleans told Forgotston about his ailing auto-body repair business.

"Gambling is killing my business," the caller said.

"How could gambling affect an auto-repair business?" Forgotston asked.

"When people get into an accident, they receive a check from the insurance company in order to make repair, but they're not required to spend it on the repairs, so they gamble it away," the caller replied, according to Forgotston. "My business is off 69 percent. I've had to lay off four people."

No such effect with prostitution . . . in countries where it is legal.

 

[yyz]

By the way.........are you sure you don't know Eddie?

 

[Chopsticks]

Hey, I thought this was a sports forum and not English Composition 101. I'm learning quite a bit about grammar. Gotta keep the dictionary next to me to translate the posts. LOL!!! The great thing about the forums, everyone has the balls the size of goats behind a computer. Good luck everyone.



PS My last comment was not meant to offend anyone. Just stating fact.

 

[yyz]

Sticks,

It's all about the fun, my man!

I'm sure that our friend, "heater" is not a stranger to the forum. He sounds a bit Kosarish, with a twist of EH, and stirred over a pile of Crackrat.

I'm sure our "mystery man" will get tired of whetever agenda he has to run, and go back to ??? soon.

After all, how fun can it be trying to humiliate a bunch of down on their luck punters?

kind of funny how all of this persons "thoughts" come straight out of books, though.

It's fun to debate, though!

 

[Heater]

yyz,

Savant?! Why thank you, thank you very much.

Town Clown? If you and the good doctor aren't two of the dumbest, narrowest minded people I have ever encountered, you certainly are in the top two. Don't like the discourse? Then don't respond - how hard can that be?

"Kids who turn 20 . . ." pure speculation, as was the dr's assesment that I am a rat, weasel and liar. Based on nary a single fact. I guess that makes life easier - proceeding on assumptions that have no basis in fact. So convenient to know and see all through a CRT. You must pick 100% of your games correctly.

Webster defines "black" as: (1) often capitalized : of or relating to any of various population groups having dark pigmentation of the skin <black Americans>.

See any reference to slang? Nope! Ok then - and I haven't met a single person of color (prefer that?) who was offended by being called black. And yes - I travel in multicultural circles, not some white bread existence.

I call black people "black people." If they would voice some objection, I may address them otherwise, but I won't use the meningless term "african american."

Good luck on your games, because if you use the same logic you use in posting, luck is what you'll need - and lots of it brother!

 

[Heater]

Chopsticks - thanks for the compliment. I don't know whay you think that "everyone has the balls the size of goats behind a computer." I haven't said anything I wouldn't say to Dr's face or yyz's either. I haven't used profanity, offered to fight or lost my temper and said something I didn't mean.

yyz - I am a stranger to this, but not other forums. What makes me a "mystery man?" The fact that I showed up here one day, registered and posted. Isn't that how you all started?

And there you go with the "agenda" claims again - right out of the dr. freeze school of telepathic reasoning. Go ahead and add in that I am a liar, rat and weasel and I'd swear you guys are twins.

I'm not trying to humilaite anyone. I came in here to post an interesting article and all of a sudden, freak, 'er freeze jumps down my throat and makes nasty with me. Then you come behind him and do about the same.

And there you go again making claims without facts. You wanna tell me what books my thoughts come out of friend? You won't even respond to that because that is your M.O. Make a baseless claim, ignore the reponse and continue upon unproved and incorrect assumptions.

It's fun to debate, but only with those with the intellect to keep up - if ya know what I mean.

 

[dr. freeze]

dude, i have stolen, lied, cheated, and lusted before.......that doesn't mean that i can't think that certain things shouldn't be illegal.....nowhere did i say i am innocent of these things......making these things legal will just tempt me do them more..

i used moral relavitism because someone said that we shouldn't impose our morals on someone else...that is an absurd statement because if we didn't impose morals, then chaos would ensue......

i have already stated my points.....i did not state that i was perfect, nor that anyone is.....nor is the church perfect......nor is any Christian perfect.....and if you think that the Bible is as valuable as you say it is, then so be it......i hope someday you change your view on this......i really hope that you do.......and i take great offence at your slander towards what i believe is God's holy word, and that hurts me in itself to hear someone throw maliciousness at it........i wonder why so many people read it with such animosity.....

i am sorry if calling someone an african-american created such a stir in your heart.....calling them black people creates stirs in other hearts....seems to be a no win situation....all i was trying to say was that the black or african american community struggles to keep families together.......

it is worthless trying to argue with some people because they result in twisting words that you say and it gets nowhere.....i want kids to grow up in homes where there are two loving faithful parents......comparing us to how the Euro's do things is a waste of time because the Euro's are not Americans and if you want to go to Amsterdam and raise your daughter to be a drug-addicted, spaced out, whore go right ahead.......the opportunity is there......

 

[Chopsticks]

freeze,

You want to talk about offended. How about us single fathers, or soon to be single fathers, that have never cheated on our wives before. I have had many chances to do so yet never did. It is to my childrens misfortune that their mother and I do not see eye to eye. I also think I'm a damn good father. So are you saying that single parents, without the nucleus of a father and mother together, cannot raise children correctly? You commented about society as a whole being dismantled morally if prostitution was legalized, not just the United States. Are you so sheltered that you can't take a different ethnicities comments? You must be the biggest idiot that has ever walked this earth. Of course I don't want my daughter to grow up to be a hooker. What father would? Are you a father? But those destined to their path will suffer in their own decisions. The topics were doing just fine, until you threw the morality card in there. Where the hell do you get off telling me take my daughter and raise her as the Euro's do? Are you saying that all women in Europe are prostitutes? Where did I ever state that prostitution was morally correct. I just stated, again, that is was culturally acceptable to some. You throw around your weight about telling other people don't twist your words around. How about following your own advise. Debate is fine and very enjoyable but when YOU try to impose your morals on others, you yourself are causing that dreaded "chaos" that you so often bring up.

 

[dr. freeze]

i commend anyone trying to raise their children without the benefit of either a mother or a father........however, it is best for the child to have a loving mother and father so that he or she may have a role model from both sexes.....

thats all i have to say.....sorry you don't get along anymore with your wife and i hope that when i get married i can work through our problems....for our children's sake if nothing else....

i already explained why the argument of having someone "force their morals on you" is absurd......so don't use that line anymore....

it is pointless arguing with you though because your worldview is foreign to me and mine is foreign to you.......no i am not an idiot....i was a physics major in college and am pursuing an MD and a PhD in neuroscience so i don't think that my intellect is too much below yours.......i wish you well, and hope that you can raise your family and instill high moral character in them and protect their health so that they will be able to make informed, reasoned, and healthy decisions in the future........best of luck

 

[yyz]

yyz - I am a stranger to this, but not other forums. What makes me a "mystery man?" The fact that I showed up here one day, registered and posted. Isn't that how you all started?

No. You are a "mystery man" (to me) because I don't know what you are doing here. I'm sure if you punch that in your dictionary you will find a suitable definition to match my use of the word "mystery".

And there you go with the "agenda" claims again - right out of the dr. freeze school of telepathic reasoning. Go ahead and add in that I am a liar, rat and weasel and I'd swear you guys are twins.

You don't have an agenda? Okay, fair enough. Most people come to Madjacks to give some input on sports wagering. After some time, they might enter into the threads and topics that are unrelated to said sports venues. Now, I can't just lump you into a catagory, and say you shouldn't say anything other than things about sports....that would be unfair. But, given the nature of this forum, would it not be logical to assume you might have other reasons for being here, other than talk about wagering on sports?
After all......I don't believe I've seen your views on any games yet? You would agree, that looks a little odd, yes?

So, perhaps you're not here to start shit with a bunch of people beneath your intelect. Than, please.....enlighten us as to what brought you here? That is a fair question, and I would think it deserves a fair answer.

I'm not trying to humilaite anyone. I came in here to post an interesting article and all of a sudden, freak, 'er freeze jumps down my throat and makes nasty with me. Then you come behind him and do about the same.

Actually, I have been quite civil. I don't like to be reduced to arguing with the fk yous, and eat me's, but once in a while they can sink to those depths. As of yet....I have not. So, I can only assume that your opinion about "nastiness" comes from me not being awestruck at your wonderful lexicon, and my unwillingness to kowtow to your interpretations of subject matter.

And there you go again making claims without facts. You wanna tell me what books my thoughts come out of friend? You won't even respond to that because that is your M.O. Make a baseless claim, ignore the reponse and continue upon unproved and incorrect assumptions.

I don't know what books those would be. Tell what college you are going to, and I'll do a search on required reading material for this semester. I will just say that they don't seem too original. You sound like a guy who would be very easy to tilt in an actual conversation. Now, you will say that I don't know you are a student, and just making another "baseless claim". Well, you got me! I don't know who you are, or what you do, but life is made up of many things. Some you are taught, and some you just learn.
If I am walking in a dark alley, and a man points a gun at me, I will assume he has some plan. I might be wrong in that assumption, but I'll assume anyway. For a poster of your intelect to come in here, and make the posts you are making, I'll make assumptions about that, as well. That's the way the world works, outside of the classroom. You kind of remind me of that professor in "Back to School", who uses classroom models as examples, and Rodney Dangerfield shows him up by filling in the class on how things work in the real world.

It's fun to debate, but only with those with the intellect to keep up - if ya know what I mean.

Yeah.....I sure do, brother.............I sure do.

 

[Heater]

Hey Doc,

Since you are responding to this thread, why don't you answer the questions you so conveniently avoided yesterday?

So, again:

Dr. Freeze - please tell me what my agenda is?
I haven't told a single lie, much less be caught in one. What lie?

As far as the Bible being God's word, you have to be mentally unbalanced to believe that myth.

You do understand that there was no Bible for centuries after Jesus Christ died, don't you?

And any good Christian should have some understanding of the history of the Church and all its doings. So you must know the Catholic Church had a meeting (I forget its proper name) and VOTED ON WHAT WENT IN THE BIBLE !

Mere mortals editing God's Word?! Not likely a prescription for accuracy in my mind.

In 1610 Galileo published his heliocentric telescopic observations, and was condemned by the Church, which had incorporated, as part of its Aristotelian doctrine, the geocentric teachings of the Greek astronomer, Ptolemy (A.D.85-165).

The Church considered this heresy and he lived the remainder of his life under house arrest. After almost 400 years, decided to forgive him. These are not people to be trusted to tell you the truth.

be cool . . .

 

[Chopsticks]

freeze,


Your booksmarts and your degree mean absolutely nothing to me. I don't care if you have one year left to obtain a tenure as a professor at your univeristy. You paint a bright, 5000 sq foot home, beautiful wife, dog named Duke, and a boy and girl, when you finally get married. That's great, but until you live in the reality of marriage, please don't advise. No marriage is perfect. You try to illustrate this wonderful facade of children growing up in a wonderland environment. You come off as trying to be the Alpha wolf in your marriage. Things don't work like that. I enjoy these forums and the people here, but you really hit a nerve when you suggested I take my daughter to Europe and raise her as a spaced out, druggy whore, just because our viewpoints differ. I know my children will have good role models in their lives though their mother and I are separating. It doesn't change our views to want a better life for our kids though her and I don't agree on the same level. Yes it's true that your ideals and my viewpoints differ and that we'll probably never see eye to eye, but next time, please refrain yourself in giving other's examples how to raise their children. Until you are a father, don't give suggestions on how I should be one. My apologies about the idiot remark.

 

[yyz]

Webster defines "black" as: (1) often capitalized : of or relating to any of various population groups having dark pigmentation of the skin <black Americans>.

(2) : of or relating to the Afro-American people or their culture <black literature> <a black college> <black pride> <black studies> (3) : typical or representative of the most readily attended parts of black culture <tried to play blacker jazz>


Don't print half of the story, just because the other half doesn't fit your "agenda"!

 

[Heater]

yyz,

Like I told Jack when he questioned my presence, I came here to contribute - initially the article that I posted a link to. That response was in my original post thread. I guess you missed it.

Did you read the article? Very interesting indeed.

I haven't posted any views on games because the minute I got here, I get flamed by the dr. I am mainly an NFL guy. I did, however look at some bases this morning. Looks a little odd? Not really - not everyone posts games here do they?

The nastiness stems from your prior assertion that I am here with some agenda.

I am not a student, but a graduate and I am closer to 50 than to 20, so whatever school book you were thinking, you were wrong. Maybe I remind you of that professor in "Back to School", but my views were not gained from a book, nor formed in the antiseptic confines of a classroom.

You think I'd be easy to tilt in person. Pretty funny because the people that know me would really get a kick out of that.

Ok - go pick some winners!