UFC 104

[gardenweasel]

A Shogun win could go a long way for me. I need something positive in my life.

i put this here so the idjits in general won`t use it as chum...

dude,f-ck shogun...

listen to old wease....you`re a young,young guy.....there`s a whole helluva lotta sand that has to run through the hour glass before you hang em up.....you have time to start over several times.....but don`t f-ck around...make it your business to start out fresh...get with it...

and that`s what you`re gonna do....women will come and go until you find one that fits...it hurts for awhile...then life goes on...that`ll happen in time....

the constant(until then) are your brothers and sisters,aunts,uncles and cousins... and most of all your parents...they love you unconditionally...
love em back...you`ll be sorry if you don`t....

don`t worry about what some yokels on a gambling forum think....just get your head straight,think about what you`re doing and what you`re saying to and about folks(not here,,,in the real world)...

talk to people...try and figure what you want to do....then,make that your holy grail...

you`re not college educated?...o.k...theres the fire dept,the police dept,the federal govt.(post office,disability claims,records,health care etc)....which will be expanding like crazy under this new administration...you can get in on the ground floor and move up in government without being highly educated...i worked for the feds for a while...wasn`t my cup of tea,but you can make a decent living and the bene`s are excellent...


go to a resume preperation service and blow a few dolars to have your resume exggerated by a pro.....regardless how lame it may seem...

get your head up...everything`s o.k...you`re young...you have your health...your immediate family...

you`re blesed,dude...you have time...but don`t fritter it away...things tend to get away from folks if they lose focus(like myself in the hippo/kramer nfl contest)...

i repeat..you are blessed...you`ve probably got at least another good 50 years to go.....nothing can stop you...except yourself...

 

[Oddessa]

Just my opinion but if I was Cain I would drop down to LHW. He only weighs 238, there are other LHWs out there that weight that or more before they start their final trim down and cut.

I can't think of any dominant wrestlers in the LHW division and IMO he could really shake things up.


DAMNNNN I'm pumped.

Cain couldnt make 190 in college and wrestled heavyweight since HS. He can't make 205, but regardless he is a machine at heavytweight and agree he would be a monster at 205 but again, he cant take 30lbs off and stay healthy...

He is better than Carwin...we will see that eventually...and the guys at AKA say he is the toughest guy in the room. And they have some great fighters there. And his chin is real good, his wrestling is exceptional, and he hits really fukin hard.

 

[BUCSnotYUCKS]

Cain couldnt make 190 in college and wrestled heavyweight since HS. He can't make 205, but regardless he is a machine at heavytweight and agree he would be a monster at 205 but again, he cant take 30lbs off and stay healthy...

He is better than Carwin...we will see that eventually...and the guys at AKA say he is the toughest guy in the room. And they have some great fighters there. And his chin is real good, his wrestling is exceptional, and he hits really fukin hard.

His chin is real good? I'm sorry, but did you watch his fight against Kongo? Any HW with marginal ground game would've defeated Velasquez in that fight.

He's got talent, no doubt, but Carwin's better, IMO.

This is the toughest fight for Cain to date, and personally I think Rothwell wins and humbles Cain.

 

[Oddessa]

His chin is real good? I'm sorry, but did you watch his fight against Kongo? Any HW with marginal ground game would've defeated Velasquez in that fight.

He's got talent, no doubt, but Carwin's better, IMO.

This is the toughest fight for Cain to date, and personally I think Rothwell wins and humbles Cain.

Of course I watched the Kongo fight. Cain's chin is fukin great. Whats Kongo's best asset? Obviously his standup game? He took big shots on the chin and still wion the fight. I'm sorry but you're dillusional if you blelieve what you typed above.

When guys like Swick, Kos, Buentello, and Crazy Bob say he's the best in AKA camp, you'd be foolish to doubt them without being in the room with them.

Kongo sux, but he can punch and kick. And Cain tasted both.


No heavyweight wrestler beats Cain on the mat outside of Lesnar.

 

[Oddessa]

In summary...

Cains standup defense might suck, but his chin is very solid.

It would be like saying Jake Rosholts chin sux. His standup game defense might suk, but his chin is as good as anyone at his weight.

Same holds true for Cain.

 

[Ghost Kid]

Weigh-In Pics:
http://mmajunkie.com/news/16603/ufc...ins-photos-an-mmajunkie-com-image-gallery.mma

 

[layinwood]

Cain couldnt make 190 in college and wrestled heavyweight since HS. He can't make 205, but regardless he is a machine at heavytweight and agree he would be a monster at 205 but again, he cant take 30lbs off and stay healthy...

He is better than Carwin...we will see that eventually...and the guys at AKA say he is the toughest guy in the room. And they have some great fighters there. And his chin is real good, his wrestling is exceptional, and he hits really fukin hard.

Oddessa, he could make 205 easily. He only weighs 238 now and that's weighing what he wants. He has easily 18 lbs he could lose in fat if not more. Even is he just cut 13lbs of fat and then cut water from 225, that would be normal for this class. When I say he should drop down I'm not saying he should weight from 238 to 205 for a fight, I'm saying his walking around weight should be lower so he only has to cut from a modest amount. If he was trimmed up and low on the bf I would agree but he has plenty to lose. If he did he would probably pick up some more quickness as well. I doubt losing 13-15lbs of fat would do anything to his strength.

He would be something the LHW division doesn't have and might need at this point. I just can't see him ever beating Brock so why mess around.

 

[Ghost Kid]

:Yep: :Yep: :Yep: :Yep: :Yep:

 

[Oddessa]

Actually Cain couldnt make 197 in 2002 so I believe it would be extremly difficult for him to get to 205. He could have dropped to 197 at ASU to avoid Mocco and Conrad and didnt in 2005.

Rosholt actually won NCAA tourney it at 197 both years for OK ST after moven up from 184. And even stranger...Ryan Bader wrestled 197 @ ASU Cains SR year......AA'd taking 7th. Now all 3 are in UFC.

But Cain sure would be a force at 205 if he could make the cut. I just dont see it happening without pharm help.... like cynomel and clenbuterol.

anyways good discussion and good luck 2mmrow.

 

[gardenweasel]

from what i`ve seen.cain has pretty good stand-up...he has decent technical stand-up.....actually,good technical stand-up...


but(so far),he`s fought one really dangerous oponent..and he fought that fight as though his fight i.q. equals his hat size...he`s way too fearless(at 6`2") and his defense is lacking...

he`s a world class wrestler(uber-world class)...and yet he had to be knocked practically senseless(several times in the kongo fight,if memory serves me)before his instinct kicked in and he lunged(it wasn`t a shot,he was too hurt) for takedowns...

luckily for him,kongo is about as proficient at the sprawl and on the ground as franz botha....

the question tonight is,"has velasquez learned his lesson?"...or will he continue the latino macho b.s. and get caught again by the taller striker with a reach advantage?...

from what i`ve read,he understands what he has to do....his stand-up is good...but vs superior,dangerous strikers(that aren`t accomplished wrestlers) with physical advantages(like rothwell),he has to be careful and use his stand-up to set up his takedowns....his bread and butter...

he has a touch of "sean sherk syndrome"...

could he win a stand-up fight with rothwell?..i guess it`s possible....but why would he fight such a fight with a guy like rothwell?....

i`m curious to see if velasquez has smartened up...from what i`ve read,i suspect he has...he`s saying all the right things...that`s why i backed off my rothwell wager...

we`ll see tonight..

 

[BUCSnotYUCKS]

Of course I watched the Kongo fight. Cain's chin is fukin great. Whats Kongo's best asset? Obviously his standup game? He took big shots on the chin and still wion the fight. I'm sorry but you're dillusional if you blelieve what you typed above.

When guys like Swick, Kos, Buentello, and Crazy Bob say he's the best in AKA camp, you'd be foolish to doubt them without being in the room with them.

Kongo sux, but he can punch and kick. And Cain tasted both.


No heavyweight wrestler beats Cain on the mat outside of Lesnar.

Re-watch that fight, Kongo's punches were when he was backing up. = WEAK CHIN

If Kongo had any takedown defense, he would've just fended him off, and finished him.

 

[Oddessa]

Fair enough.... Good luck.

 

[Oddessa]

"I think Cain Velasquez is one of the most dangerous heavyweights in the division. He is, first of all, an All-American wrestler who has phenomenal endurance. He's known for out-working welterweights and lightweights in the gym which is unheard of as a heavyweight. His cardio is world renowned. People constantly talk about him and guys that train with him can't believe the pace that this guy can keep. On top of that, he's got excellent striking, takes a good punch and rebounds. That's one of the things we saw in the Cheick Kongo fight. We got to see Cain Velasquez bounce back from adversity. If there's any knock on Cain is that he got is he got Kongo to the ground and gave him an incredible beating but wasn't able to stop him. It's pretty incredible because it shows for one how tough Cheick Kongo is but two it makes you question the power Cain Velasquez has. Obviously his wrestling is incredible, his endurance is incredible but you got to wonder about his power." -Joe Rogan

..

 

[gardenweasel]

..

don`t disagree...except i`d add "mma i.q." in with the the power comment...

that`s why tonight is so interesting...

 

[Oddessa]

I hear you. Whats hurting alot of these guys is the feeling of the 'need' to be exciting rather than to simply win fights. Was speaking with guy that trains Team Takedown...Rosh, hendricks, Roller..and he made good point abt Rosh vs Oter. Rosh was in dominant position and as result of fans boo'ing and he gave up position and almost got himself beat.

UFC doesnt like LNP styles, fans either, but guys like Evans and Machida show that if you win in unexciting fashion, you will still get ur shot.... eventually. You cant be denied. Lindland losing to Terrell was blessing for UFC back in the day. I think Cain knows that he just needs to keep winning and will use his best assets on that road.

Cain, unlike many MMA fighters actually has a good education and should learn from past mistakes, but everyone knows gameplans sometimes go down the shitter when they get hit. He should respod with his wrestling out of instinct, unless he is completely on queer street.

 

[BUCSnotYUCKS]

Here goes nothing...

Shogun Rua +365(DUH)
Ben Rothwell +290(I honestly think he's just better)
Pat Barry +125(Someones getting KO'd, I'll take the Dog lol)
Jorge Rivera +150(Just keep it standing)

 

[kickserv]

MMA Record (since UFC 58)
---------------------------------------------

Prop Bet 29-31
Fighter vs. Fighter 163-254
Parlays 73-98

+22.75 Joe Rogans


Spencer Fisher beat Joe Stevenson $3.00 (+200) *1 Joe Rogan

Eric Schafer beat Ryan Bader $4.60 (+360) *1 Joe Rogan

Jorge Rivera beat Rob Kimmons $2.50 (+150) *1 Joe Rogan

Ben Rothwell beat Cain Velasquez $3.95 (+295) *1 Joe Rogan

Josh Neer beat Gleison Tibau $2.07 (+107) *1.5 Joe Rogans


Parlay #1
---------------------------
Lyoto Machida
Anthony Johnson
Yushin Okami
Kyle Kingsbury

odds = $3.90 (+290) *1 Joe Rogan

 

[gardenweasel]

i looked at neer....wish there was more value there...

 

[The Sponge]

Cain has a week chin? :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

 

[gardenweasel]

Cain has a week chin? :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

i think the jury`s out,don`t you?....he was in with one top drawer striker and almost got ktfo.....

i suspect this goes to the mat in a hurry,so we may still not know...

i`d like to know because a fight with carwin appears likely at some point......