UFC 116 "Lesnar vs. Carwin": July 3rd, Las Vegas, NV

[Glenn Quagmire]

The hell he didn't. When Brock hit the canvas the first thing he did was curl into a ball and hide his face into the mat with both arms covering his head and could see nothing while Carwin stood over him. Carwin should have kicked him in the rib over and over.



The belt was on the line in the Cyborg fight as well so why is not as understandable that they continued that fight.

Good job by both refs.
Sponge--
As for the Bonnar stoppage, come on. Sosz was taking big clean shots and not trying to defend himself AT ALL. Finney and Lesnar were at least covering up. Comparing that stoppage to the title fight ones is like saying Luke Walton is capable of playing like Kobe since they are both pro basketball players.

Exactly. Just like you said, Brock curled up and covered his head when Carwin was STANDING OVER HIM. Finney did that when Cyborg was standing in the MIDDLE of the ring, nowhere near her. Two totally different scenarios. In the first one, the fighter is protecting himself to keep from getting hit, in the second the fighter is either so beaten that she didn't know what was going on, or she was terrified and wanted no part of the other fighter.

Sure the belt was on the line in the Finney fight, but again, they were different scenarios. Finney looked like a scared puppy that just wanted it to end in that first round, and probably shouldn't have been in the ring in the first place. Brock was getting his ass kicked, but he was the reigning champ going into the fight. He should have gotten far more rope than Finney.

But like I said last night, I wouldn't have faulted the ref for stopping the Lesnar fight. I think it was a good call to let them go on, but he could have stopped it and been justified in doing so, IMO.

 

[kegray1]

Exactly. Just like you said, Brock curled up and covered his head when Carwin was STANDING OVER HIM.

Curled up is curled up. Lesnar was curled up and hiding LONG before Carwin threw a punch when Carwin was standing over him. He was so hidden that Carwin didn't know what to hit. That is not defense, that is I am scared and stop beating on me defense. The turtle came out of his shell once he realized Carwin was not going to whale on him in that position.
Lesnar was to blame for this fight going the way it did. I kept saying it was just a matter of time before Lesnar gets floored in a standup battle. He tried 1 takedown then decided to go standup. I said Lesnar is toast just before the uppercut.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Curled up is curled up. Lesnar was curled up and hiding LONG before Carwin threw a punch when Carwin was standing over him. He was so hidden that Carwin didn't know what to hit. That is not defense, that is I am scared and stop beating on me defense. The turtle came out of his shell once he realized Carwin was not going to whale on him in that position.
Lesnar was to blame for this fight going the way it did. I kept saying it was just a matter of time before Lesnar gets floored in a standup battle. He tried 1 takedown then decided to go standup. I said Lesnar is toast just before the uppercut.

Well, I would disagree. It makes perfect sense to curl up and cover your head when somebody is standing over you, because you know they are going to start hitting you. How does it make sense when your opponent is in the middle of the ring? That was one of the weirdest things I've seen. If I remember correctly that was the point where Winslow asked Cyborg if she wanted her to stand Finney up, because they were both so perplexed by what Finney was doing.

And while I agree that it may make the fighter look 'scared,' I think it's the best defensive tact to take. Like you said, it gives the guy on top a lot less area to hit if you're curled up. I think most fighters will curl up when they have somebody on top of them hitting them, and a lot of times it helps them prolong the fight.

Trust me, I wanted to see Lesnar lose as much as anyone. I didn't have money on the fight, but I can't stand that dude. But I give him credit for weathering the storm by Carwin.

 

[gardenweasel]

he doesn`t get it,g.quag...

trying to compare the finney beatdown to brock covering up with those huge arms and actually coming back and winning is insane....

theres no outcry regarding the lesnar fight being stopped.....unless one had money on it....because sane people understand the difference between lesnar covering up effectively,coming back and winning... and finney literally getting crushed...abused...and needlessly injured..while clutching at a leg like some delirious street person....all thanks to a greenhorn ref who was shielded from criticism because of gender...

save your breath...i don`t blame the carwin backers for being upset(which is cool...we`ve all been there...i understand that...very tough loss)...they can`t bitch about the non-stoppage,because it makes them look hypocritical...

so they`re falling back on the lame finney argument to vent their spleen...it`s not healthy holding all that pent up emotion inside...let it out...:toast:


let it pass...

 

[kickserv]

ummm.......I think GW is the one that "doesn't get it"


Both refs did a great job in NOT stopping the fight.

Great job by both refs.

 

[kickserv]

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19806/aft...6-fight-card-more-bonus-checks-on-the-way.mma

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Jeebus, can we have a public burial for the Finney/Cyborg discussions? I think I've actually heard, and been a part of, that discussion more than the "This might be Cliff Lee's last start as a Mariner!" the last few weeks. :facepalm:

How about a 3 PM burial? Or should we just cremate this one? :shrug: If you want to go the burial route, I'll bring the dirt if Kick brings the shovel.

 

[kegray1]

so they`re falling back on the lame finney argument to vent their spleen...it`s not healthy holding all that pent up emotion inside...let it out...:toast:


let it pass...

Well I had no cash on either fight as my small parlay with Carwin was dead thanks to Seth.

I could have seen either of the fights in question getting stopped but just stating the simple fact of MMA.
We all know it is at times a violent,brutal,and even cruel sport at times.
It has always been hyped as such.

And I will ask the question YET again that NOBODY has answered as to the Finney non stoppage then once someone answers I will put it to bed:
If Finney was so beaten down then why did the doctor allow her to come out for the 2nd round???
Everyone is blaming Winslow, but nobody is questioning the medical pro that said she could continue with a fractured eye socket.

Yes Finney was beaten badly in round 1, but the fact is she was able to fight on and like I said before the punch she landed to start to 2nd would have dropped MANY women in MMA. Unfortunate for her that she was fighting something totally different than a woman.
People always want the ref to be invisible in sports(just see the World Cup) so if a refs judgement is in question whether the fight should be stopped then it should go on because people are paying to see them and not the ref.

Also I don't think this has been mentioned but HUGE PROPS to Gerald Harris for laying off on the cheap shot he could have dropped after the slam.
He saw Branch was out cold from the slam and pulled the bomb back and let the ref stop it. :0074 Great sportsmanship there.

Also the biggest difference in these two fights was Carwin was doing damage while on top of Brock. 90% of the damage Cyborg did was in the standup. I just don't think Winslow saw enough G'n'P damage to stop it.
Brock got busted wide open on his back.

I say let them fight, it is the nature of the sport.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Ok, I guess we aren't burying the Cyborg discussion. :142smilie

I honestly don't remember what she looked like after the first round, so I can't say whether the doctor fucked up or not. What I can say is there were numerous times in the first round where Finney was getting completely dominated, was totally overmatched, and not even trying to fight back. I'm not of the mind that it should have been stopped because of the way Finney looked, but moreso the way she was acting. She wasn't a fighter that was trying to win a fight, she was a fighter who was hanging on for dear life.

IMO it probably should have been stopped in the first round, which would have left the doctor's decision completely out of it. That's why I don't typically think of the doctor as being the one who dropped the ball.

 

[kegray1]

Ok, I guess we aren't burying the Cyborg discussion. :142smilie

I thought it was 3 pm. My clock reads 2:44. :142smilie I got 16 more minutes to vent.

I honestly don't remember what she looked like after the first round, so I can't say whether the doctor fucked up or not.
IMO it probably should have been stopped in the first round, which would have left the doctor's decision completely out of it. That's why I don't typically think of the doctor as being the one who dropped the ball.

I don't think Cyborg did any worse damage in the 2nd after rewatching it and the outcry was to stop it in the 1st. I still think Winslow was put in a tough spot. Watching it again she was ready to stop it but the illegal blows came raining down and it left her in a tough spot. Do people blame me more for letting it go on or do they blame me for awarding a winner on illegal blows. The round was over after that before Cyborg could do anything else.

14 minutes and counting. How many more can I get in? :mj07:

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I thought it was 3 pm. My clock reads 2:44. :142smilie I got 16 more minutes to vent.



I don't think Cyborg did any worse damage in the 2nd after rewatching it and the outcry was to stop it in the 1st. I still think Winslow was put in a tough spot. Watching it again she was ready to stop it but the illegal blows came raining down and it left her in a tough spot. Do people blame me more for letting it go on or do they blame me for awarding a winner on illegal blows. The round was over after that before Cyborg could do anything else.

14 minutes and counting. How many more can I get in? :mj07:

Touche. I forgot that I said 3 PM. :142smilie Plus, Kick has never gotten back to me on the shovel. If Kick has no shovel, there may be no burial at all.

I actually completely agree with you about the 2nd round. It's been a while since I've watched it, but I don't remember the 2nd round being all that bad. That's why I thought it should have been stopped in the first. And like I said before, when the fight WAS actually stopped in the 2nd round, I don't remember Finney taking any more abuse than she did in the first, so why stop it then? That makes me wonder if Winslow was starting to feel guilty about not stopping it earlier? Hell, I dunno... :shrug:

 

[kegray1]

Well I guess this is my final post on it.
I could have seen Winslow stopping it in the 1st, but I just can't blame her alone for it going on and the doctor saying she was good to continue told me Cyborg never landed a damaging enough blow. Cyborg was relentless which could have led to the stoppage, but the cruelty shot just never came.

RIP Cyborg/Finney talk from me. I enjoy a good burial.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Well I guess this is my final post on it.
I could have seen Winslow stopping it in the 1st, but I just can't blame her alone for it going on and the doctor saying she was good to continue told me Cyborg never landed a damaging enough blow. Cyborg was relentless which could have led to the stoppage, but the cruelty shot just never came.

RIP Cyborg/Finney talk from me. I enjoy a good burial.

One other thing... I meant 3 PST, so if you want, have a field day on this topic for the next 2 hours. Or perhaps more, if Kick doesn't have a shovel. Although we are both undoubtedly going to get banned by Kick for taking this OT. :0008

 

[The Sponge]

he doesn`t get it,g.quag...

trying to compare the finney beatdown to brock covering up with those huge arms and actually coming back and winning is insane....

theres no outcry regarding the lesnar fight being stopped.....unless one had money on it....because sane people understand the difference between lesnar covering up effectively,coming back and winning... and finney literally getting crushed...abused...and needlessly injured..while clutching at a leg like some delirious street person....all thanks to a greenhorn ref who was shielded from criticism because of gender...

save your breath...i don`t blame the carwin backers for being upset(which is cool...we`ve all been there...i understand that...very tough loss)...they can`t bitch about the non-stoppage,because it makes them look hypocritical...

so they`re falling back on the lame finney argument to vent their spleen...it`s not healthy holding all that pent up emotion inside...let it out...:toast:


let it pass...

you know what is funny about this whole debate? Kick says ask 50 mma guys and they will all tell ya that she did a great job. Almost like he thinks all these guys are just nuts and gladiators. How many times do we see these guys get over matched and just turn to their back getting pounded, and u know very well they are praying the ref will just stop it so it all can end. Just like the Bonnar fight. Heck i even remember one timeTrigg saying he rolled into a Hughes choke to get out of the punishment. Kristof rolled to the floor to stop the beatdown from Bonner. Im sure he was trying to get out of the fight cause he knew he was hurt. He wasn't gonna take anymore of that punishment. Most of them do that. Its laughable to compare Finney and her 8-7 record against a beast, compared to Lesnar fighting a guy who was the underdog while Lesnar was the reing champion. :mj07: :mj07:

 

[The Sponge]

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19806/aft...6-fight-card-more-bonus-checks-on-the-way.mma

That is very nice. I tell l ya the submission of the night is a tough call. U go Lesnar cause he was almost dead but same with Leben yet my favorite was Lytle. Fight of the night was tough also. I agree with Dana. Best card i ever saw. Great match making.

 

[kegray1]

Its laughable to compare Finney and her 8-7 record against a beast, compared to Lesnar fighting a guy who was the underdog while Lesnar was the reing champion. :mj07: :mj07:

I think Carwin was the real champ. He didn't lose to Mir and was unbeaten. Brock has been spoon fed everything in the UFC.

 

[BUCSnotYUCKS]

I think Carwin was the real champ. He didn't lose to Mir and was unbeaten. Brock has been spoon fed everything in the UFC.

Spoon fed? Are you fucking kidding me?

His first fight was against Mir
His second fight was against Herring
His third fight was against Couture
His fourth fight was against Mir again
His fifth fight was against Carwin

you are smoking some good shit if you think he's been spoon fed.

 

[kegray1]

Spoon fed? Are you fucking kidding me?

His first fight was against Mir
His second fight was against Herring
His third fight was against Couture
His fourth fight was against Mir again
His fifth fight was against Carwin

you are smoking some good shit if you think he's been spoon fed.

By spoon fed I mean he didn't have to prove himself.
Who just walks into a sport and gets a chance to fight the best every single time.
He became the #1 contender without doing a damn thing other than being hyped.
He has proven himself and was a man about saying sure I will fight him, but why have Dos Santos and Cain had to work up to this point even after Brock lost??

 

[jr11]

By spoon fed I mean he didn't have to prove himself.
Who just walks into a sport and gets a chance to fight the best every single time.
He became the #1 contender without doing a damn thing other than being hyped.
He has proven himself and was a man about saying sure I will fight him, but why have Dos Santos and Cain had to work up to this point even after Brock lost??

He got to fight the best because he might have killed a lesser opponent. I understand where you are coming from, but to put him in with a few cans does nobody any good. Afterall, he is a cash cow for Dana, we are talking about Dana here. Milk it while you can for as long as you can. Call it what you want, Lesnar sells tickets and PPV's, and since boxing has no real heavyweight that anyone cares about here in the US, why not? Is it fair for all of those that paid there dues, NO.

jr11

 

[layinwood]

By spoon fed I mean he didn't have to prove himself.
Who just walks into a sport and gets a chance to fight the best every single time.
He became the #1 contender without doing a damn thing other than being hyped.
He has proven himself and was a man about saying sure I will fight him, but why have Dos Santos and Cain had to work up to this point even after Brock lost??

Easy answer, because he sells ppvs! The guys who can get the audience get the big fights.