looks like Brock has an enemy
http://mmafrenzy.com/16340/ufc-121-...-lesnar-after-ufc-121-loss-to-cain-velasquez/
http://mmafrenzy.com/16340/ufc-121-...-lesnar-after-ufc-121-loss-to-cain-velasquez/
UFC 121: "Lesnar vs. Velasquez", Oct 23rd, Anaheim, California
- Thread starter kickserv
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Wow, is about all I can say. I thought Cain could win, but didn't think it would go down like that. Lesnar needs to move around to get better training if he wants to evolve and get back into the title picture again. He looked way too over anxious much like the first Mir fight, nervous energy. Not sure you can fix what to do when you get hit or how you respond, but clearly someone needs to work with his hands or mitts to be more confident. For a big guy like that his striking is absolutely terrible. Where does he go from here is the question, and is his spirit or heart broke now? Don't want to use this analogy, but I just fear that his has the makings of what happened to Tyson, and any relivant heavyweight may no longer fear him and that imo is half the battle when facing this monster.
Tito, please quit, fuck he was cut all over the place against Hamill who doesn't really have average striking. One point there Tito hit Hamiil and started to bleed out of his head, LOL.
Gonzaga is done too, gatekeeper, he takes a shot or two anymore and gets scared, I guess that can happen once you have been KO'ed a few times.
Nice win for Diego, he looked impressively and fun to watch.
Now, Shields WTF was that humpfest? Great wrestling but did absolutely nothing while on top. GSP will maul him. He has pillow hands. Who the fuck tries to cut 20 lbs in a day or two, stupid fuck, I mean it is not like he didn't know when he was fighting. Sorry, but he is not fun to watch and really don't feel he should get the next title fight.
Still cant get over how Cain just dominated Lesnar, beatdown. The bully was broken, and if he does come back I would be surprised if it were before April or May next year.
Tito, please quit, fuck he was cut all over the place against Hamill who doesn't really have average striking. One point there Tito hit Hamiil and started to bleed out of his head, LOL.
Gonzaga is done too, gatekeeper, he takes a shot or two anymore and gets scared, I guess that can happen once you have been KO'ed a few times.
Nice win for Diego, he looked impressively and fun to watch.
Now, Shields WTF was that humpfest? Great wrestling but did absolutely nothing while on top. GSP will maul him. He has pillow hands. Who the fuck tries to cut 20 lbs in a day or two, stupid fuck, I mean it is not like he didn't know when he was fighting. Sorry, but he is not fun to watch and really don't feel he should get the next title fight.
Still cant get over how Cain just dominated Lesnar, beatdown. The bully was broken, and if he does come back I would be surprised if it were before April or May next year.
He will win another fight if he comes back because it won't be with someone as strong wrestling wise as Cain. Lesnar shit himself when Cain got up from underneath him. It wouldn't shock me if he doesn't come back, nobody will be stroking his ego about how great and the baddest man on the planet he is anymore. If he does come back will Dana put him with someone of merit? Afterall he still is a big draw, but he should be back in the pack now and win a few fights first to get a title shot again. Dont think he has the patience for that, case in point he started right in the mix.
IMO, Brock could have been a beast even more if he worked through the ranks like every one else. But $$ talks and Dana put in a title shot right away with no experience really. I believe that hurt him now as he hasn't had the time to evolve and learn more.
So for everyone saying Brock is done, do you think he's going to quit the sport altogether or do you think he's going to get cut? For the life of me, I can't imagine him getting cut because of one loss. I can't imagine Dana being that dumb.
And as much as I can't stand Lesnar, and believe me, I hate the guy like gonorrhea, I think some of the comments on here are a bit over the top. Yes he's a one-trick pony and yes he was given a ridiculously easy path to a title shot by Dana, but the fact of the matter is the dude will dominate most guys he gets into the ring with. Cain beat him because he's a better fighter and Carwin SHOULD have beat him, but there have been, and will continue to be, many times where he takes out better all-around fighters simply because he's such a load and it's easy for him to impose his will on the other guy.
Believe me, I'm pleased as shit he lost and I hope he continues to lose, but I think he can beat most guys in the HW division, even with his limited skill-set.
And as much as I can't stand Lesnar, and believe me, I hate the guy like gonorrhea, I think some of the comments on here are a bit over the top. Yes he's a one-trick pony and yes he was given a ridiculously easy path to a title shot by Dana, but the fact of the matter is the dude will dominate most guys he gets into the ring with. Cain beat him because he's a better fighter and Carwin SHOULD have beat him, but there have been, and will continue to be, many times where he takes out better all-around fighters simply because he's such a load and it's easy for him to impose his will on the other guy.
Believe me, I'm pleased as shit he lost and I hope he continues to lose, but I think he can beat most guys in the HW division, even with his limited skill-set.
Quag....yes Brock isn't some 40th ranked HW......and yes he can win his next fight. But when you are an MMA fighter and you cower like a chipmunk when you get hit, you got major problems.
Here is a list of guys in HW division that I think Brock has very little chance of beating:
Fedor Emelianenko....Brock would gas, then it would be over
Cain Velasquez.........no comment
Fabricio Werdum......he'd submit Brock
Shane Carwin...........everybody knows why Brock won 1st fight
Junior dos Santos......not even close
Frank Mir.................he beat him once already
Alistair Overeem........Overeem would destroy Brock
Brett Rogers............power, power, power
Josh Barnett...........Roids may help:142smilie
I am not saying Brock has no chance and is done. But Brock was exposed big time in his last two fights. Just look at the names above, he'd have trouble with all of them. I would not put money on Brock in any of those fights above. I mean if he stepped into the Octagon against a crappy Rogers, would anybody take Brock knowing the power Rogers has? I mean Brock hates getting hit....his chin is not good, not good at all.
Here is a list of guys in HW division that I think Brock has very little chance of beating:
Fedor Emelianenko....Brock would gas, then it would be over
Cain Velasquez.........no comment
Fabricio Werdum......he'd submit Brock
Shane Carwin...........everybody knows why Brock won 1st fight
Junior dos Santos......not even close
Frank Mir.................he beat him once already
Alistair Overeem........Overeem would destroy Brock
Brett Rogers............power, power, power
Josh Barnett...........Roids may help:142smilie
I am not saying Brock has no chance and is done. But Brock was exposed big time in his last two fights. Just look at the names above, he'd have trouble with all of them. I would not put money on Brock in any of those fights above. I mean if he stepped into the Octagon against a crappy Rogers, would anybody take Brock knowing the power Rogers has? I mean Brock hates getting hit....his chin is not good, not good at all.
With the exception of Mir, I don't disagree with you. I don't think Mir has a snowball's chance in hell against Brock, though. The one time he beat him was a bit of a fluke, IMO. If I remember correctly, Brock was getting the better of him and Mir got a lucky hold of his ankle to submit him. The 2nd fight between them was all-out domination on Brock's part. I really don't think Mir wants any part of Brock after that fight, but I could be wrong.
And I didn't mean to imply Brock was unbeatable. There are definitely dudes that can beat him. It just seems like people are piling on because he lost one fight (and admittedly look bad against Carwin). He's not the best guy in the HW division, but he's far from the worst.
And I hope you're not complaining about the Brock Lesnar 'scamper factor.' Come on now, that's one of the funniest things about his fights. I love watching him scurry across the ring like a little rat once he gets hurt. :142smilie
i don`t know who formulated lesnar`s strategy...but he`s a total moron,imo.....
you have a 264 pound heavyweight....probably thee(or one of the top 5) most heavily muscled mma fighters to ever step into a cage...that muscle needs oxygen....
and the starategy was to rush velasquez and overwhelm him right from the jump?....expending a ton of energy in the first minute in the process....not to mention the immediate adrenaline dump....
i don`t think lesnar`s cardio is that bad for a guy that size....but you can`t blow your wad in the first 45 seconds...
what were the chances of him stopping cain in the first minute?....
and after that ridiculous strategy failed,it was like, "what the hell do i do now?"........he allowed himself no chance to gauge what velasquez was bringing...no chance to see what might work and what didn`t..no flow......his height and reach advantage never came into play....velasquez never had to fight his way inside to land his own punches....lesnar did that for him.......
it was as though velasquez` people devised lesnar`s strategy....
why don`t you see more fighters attempt lesnar`s "all or nothing at all" strategy?....
because it`s a recipe for disaster...
you have a 264 pound heavyweight....probably thee(or one of the top 5) most heavily muscled mma fighters to ever step into a cage...that muscle needs oxygen....
and the starategy was to rush velasquez and overwhelm him right from the jump?....expending a ton of energy in the first minute in the process....not to mention the immediate adrenaline dump....
i don`t think lesnar`s cardio is that bad for a guy that size....but you can`t blow your wad in the first 45 seconds...
what were the chances of him stopping cain in the first minute?....
and after that ridiculous strategy failed,it was like, "what the hell do i do now?"........he allowed himself no chance to gauge what velasquez was bringing...no chance to see what might work and what didn`t..no flow......his height and reach advantage never came into play....velasquez never had to fight his way inside to land his own punches....lesnar did that for him.......
it was as though velasquez` people devised lesnar`s strategy....
why don`t you see more fighters attempt lesnar`s "all or nothing at all" strategy?....
because it`s a recipe for disaster...
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Not an over-reaction at all. You give Brock too much credit.
As for my list....could Brock beat the guys on my list? Of course he can.
But I don't think he does.
And yes as much as Rogers stinks, I think he beats Brock. All ya got to do is hit Brock hard, and Rogers hits hard.
Also, let's be real, Carwin toyed with Brock, absolutely toyed with him. Yes, Brock won, but if they fought 10 times Carwin would win 8 outta 10 times.
As I said, you are giving Brock way too much credit. When he loses his next fight and runs away like a litlle bitch.....AGAIN, you will change your tune.
Does Brock suck, no. Is he a top 10 HW, maybe. But he is in deep trouble, because he can't take a punch. Big, big trouble. 2 fights in a row he was dominated, and if he fights any guy in my list he may be toyed with again.
No HW is scared of Brock now......in his last two fights he was exposed BIG TIME.
Also as GW said, he ain't the smartest when it comes to a game-plan.
And yep, I'll say it again......if Rogers fought Lesnar would anybody take Brock at -250....I mean be serious.
As for my list....could Brock beat the guys on my list? Of course he can.
But I don't think he does.
And yes as much as Rogers stinks, I think he beats Brock. All ya got to do is hit Brock hard, and Rogers hits hard.
Also, let's be real, Carwin toyed with Brock, absolutely toyed with him. Yes, Brock won, but if they fought 10 times Carwin would win 8 outta 10 times.
As I said, you are giving Brock way too much credit. When he loses his next fight and runs away like a litlle bitch.....AGAIN, you will change your tune.
Does Brock suck, no. Is he a top 10 HW, maybe. But he is in deep trouble, because he can't take a punch. Big, big trouble. 2 fights in a row he was dominated, and if he fights any guy in my list he may be toyed with again.
No HW is scared of Brock now......in his last two fights he was exposed BIG TIME.
Also as GW said, he ain't the smartest when it comes to a game-plan.
And yep, I'll say it again......if Rogers fought Lesnar would anybody take Brock at -250....I mean be serious.
There are two guys I know for sure(actually just one) that would be Brock and it's Cain and Fedor. IMO those are the two top HWs in the world so there's no shame in it.
Carwin was winning and then he lost. So you say Carwin is better than Brock but all I know is he lost. I do think Carwin is good but lets face it, he's 36 and has an injury. Who knows if he'll ever be back in good form again.
Rogers, are you serious? He would be on his back in 10 seconds and then would get pounded on from there on out. Cain did well and Carwin for that matter because they hit big and are good(Carwin) and great(Cain) wrestlers.
IMO I think JDS would be Brock but honestly I don't know if he would or not. I don't know if he could stop Brock from taking him down and then if he did what would he do. Cain was taken down but like I thought before the fight his speed made it hard for Brock to keep him down. Even during his college wrestling days that was something Cain was known for. Guys didn't have much riding time vs him. Do you know for sure JDS could stop Brock from taking him down?
Carwin was winning and then he lost. So you say Carwin is better than Brock but all I know is he lost. I do think Carwin is good but lets face it, he's 36 and has an injury. Who knows if he'll ever be back in good form again.
Rogers, are you serious? He would be on his back in 10 seconds and then would get pounded on from there on out. Cain did well and Carwin for that matter because they hit big and are good(Carwin) and great(Cain) wrestlers.
IMO I think JDS would be Brock but honestly I don't know if he would or not. I don't know if he could stop Brock from taking him down and then if he did what would he do. Cain was taken down but like I thought before the fight his speed made it hard for Brock to keep him down. Even during his college wrestling days that was something Cain was known for. Guys didn't have much riding time vs him. Do you know for sure JDS could stop Brock from taking him down?
Well.........to each his own, but I think you are giving way too much credit to Brock.
We shall see who he fights next, but I am sure you will admit that if he gets toyed with again you may change your tune. But hey, maybe Brock will change and learn from his mistakes?
Also you think I'm crazy for taking Rogers against Brock, fair enough.
But right back at ya about your Fedor comment. Saying Fedor is #2 HW in the world is downright laughable. Gimmie a break, Fedor ain't close to number 2. That comment is right there with the StrikeForce announcing crew saying Melendez, Thomson and JZ are all top 5:mj07:
Come on dude...Fedor #2, #5....maybe, just maybe. But number 2
We shall see who he fights next, but I am sure you will admit that if he gets toyed with again you may change your tune. But hey, maybe Brock will change and learn from his mistakes?
Also you think I'm crazy for taking Rogers against Brock, fair enough.
But right back at ya about your Fedor comment. Saying Fedor is #2 HW in the world is downright laughable. Gimmie a break, Fedor ain't close to number 2. That comment is right there with the StrikeForce announcing crew saying Melendez, Thomson and JZ are all top 5:mj07:
Come on dude...Fedor #2, #5....maybe, just maybe. But number 2
yeah i would but
im a dumbass :mj07:
i would take brock -1000 over rogers, dont see how rogers gets off his back
Well good thing Thong....they'll never fight anyway. So guess it is a mute point.
I just think Brock is in deep shit, when you are in a sport where you can't take getting hit....you are in trouble.
Simple as that.
I just think Brock is in deep shit, when you are in a sport where you can't take getting hit....you are in trouble.
Simple as that.
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Lay is giving Rodgers to much credit. He wouldn't last five seconds on his feet :mj07:
Weasy what gameplan would u have Brock use? Try to out gas him? :mj07: :mj07:
I think it was the right strategy. Beat him in a minute or get the shit beat out of himself for five rounds.:shrug: It was Brocks only chance. That is the difference in talent between the two. Brock knew he had no shot after a round or two. He could have felt him out and then got smashed in the second round. The only way he was winning that fight was landing a bomb and that is it. He tried and failed. No way he could have felt that cardio machine out, and hope to get him in round three. Brock just isn't that good. Not as bad as some of these monkeys think but just not in Cains league. jmo of course.
Weasy what gameplan would u have Brock use? Try to out gas him? :mj07: :mj07:
I think it was the right strategy. Beat him in a minute or get the shit beat out of himself for five rounds.:shrug: It was Brocks only chance. That is the difference in talent between the two. Brock knew he had no shot after a round or two. He could have felt him out and then got smashed in the second round. The only way he was winning that fight was landing a bomb and that is it. He tried and failed. No way he could have felt that cardio machine out, and hope to get him in round three. Brock just isn't that good. Not as bad as some of these monkeys think but just not in Cains league. jmo of course.
same one he used against couture.....the one in which he actually took his time and outstruck randy....
