Vegas Craps - Harley Style ......

Vegas Craps - Harley Style ......


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HarleyHorn

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yyz - very efficient work !! .... hardest lesson to learn is to get in -- get up -- AND get out !

Harley...it was Sharpshooter.

as I remember the Patterson seminars were pretty reasonably priced.

Is Jerry Patterson still around?

Jerry Patterson is still tossing along the East Coast, but retired from teaching and sold his Craps school to a nice group of teachers that can be found here:

http://www.littlejoecraps.com/

I have attended 3 of their classes and they are very well done -- I would recommend them as a best buy Craps school.
 

HarleyHorn

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Things are crazy over at the Rio craps tables with the WSOP in town, where you have poker players throwing all sorts of cash on the tables at all times ..... so I try to catch a breather with a short trip back to the Strip.

Caesars is the Classiest Craps Pit in Vegas - bar none !!! They are the only casino that will not interrupt a roll with a chip fill .... If I could tip the Boxman/Pit supervisor I would.

Tipping is something very personal -- as is money. But do you tip wisely ?? Do you tip to get the dealers into the flow of the game or just throw tips out after a session for no return on your Tip investment ?

... or do you tip the good shooter ?!

Famous basketball coach Rick Pitino was at a MGM craps table Tuesday morning with one of his horse owner buddies when a young random roller kid got on a long roll that lasted 3 stickperson changes. Afterwards, Pitino left the table without leaving a tip for anyone.

Maybe Rick Pitino has been abused in the past like so many BJ players and craps players alike --- or maybe Rick Pitino wonders why should customers be responsible for making up the difference for the low wages that greedy corporations pay dealers ?! In Australia, craps dealers are paid an average of $28 per hour and tipping is illegal.

Maybe if the casinos were not so greedy here and adopt the Australian pay rules for dealers, we would not have the collusion cheating scams between dealers and players that occur too often like at Wynn and Palms...
 

SixFive

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Love this thread.

If the table/shooter is hot, I like to play and press. If the table is cold, I like to make intermittent field bets. Field numbers seem cyclical to me, and some shooters are field rollers.

Likewise, some shooters are hard number rollers and u can hit and parlay or I like to just up my bet by triple with each hit.

I didn't see the Big Red/any seven bet mentioned here. I like this bet when there is a huge delay getting the shooter the dice or sometimes when the dice go off the table. I also like betting it on the come out roll bc it seems to hit quite often. I hit it 5 straight times the other night on 5 different shooters. I think delays for whatever reason are the biggest indicator for the devil to appear.
 

StevieD

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Love this thread.

If the table/shooter is hot, I like to play and press. If the table is cold, I like to make intermittent field bets. Field numbers seem cyclical to me, and some shooters are field rollers.

Likewise, some shooters are hard number rollers and u can hit and parlay or I like to just up my bet by triple with each hit.

I didn't see the Big Red/any seven bet mentioned here. I like this bet when there is a huge delay getting the shooter the dice or sometimes when the dice go off the table. I also like betting it on the come out roll bc it seems to hit quite often. I hit it 5 straight times the other night on 5 different shooters. I think delays for whatever reason are the biggest indicator for the devil to appear.

I can't disagree with anything you said except I find it that some dice are craps and field dice and some are numbers are hard ways and some are just no good.
 

HarleyHorn

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What is New Jersey Gaming Enforcement trying to hide ...

New Jersey used to report Craps gaming revenues much better than Nevada ever has, until December, 2013. See Caesars Atlantic City craps Win % for October, 2013 at 36.1% according to their signed NJ tax return

Caesars Atlantic City craps Win % for November, 2013 was at 27.2%. Then (for all your conspiracy junkies), detailed Craps reporting by New Jersey disappeared in December, 2013. See Link to New Jersey Tax Returns by Month by Casino

So why did New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement start hiding their Craps Winning percentage. In early 2013, we started publishing on the internet the expected returns for normal operating craps tables:

Best Selling Craps author Frank Scoblete posted on the Golden Touch Craps FaceBook page on February 5, 2013:
?Why would the casinos want to add to their already monumental edge at craps by using based dice? When you review the actually winnings at the craps tables, they come in at 16-20 percent of the money wagered. Why slaughter players even worse than this and then run the risk of these folks going into semi-retirement from the game or fleeing to casinos where they occasionally win? I just don't see the motivation behind cheating with biased dice. If I got the motivation to do something that is already being done, I might look into this. As it is, I see no reason for fixing a game that is already fixed.?
Did the corporate greed of Atlantic City Casinos lead to their own demise ?!

John Scarne on page 135 in his book Scarne on Dice states:
??I have standardized a percentage that each bank craps table is expected to earn over a month?s period. This earned percentage is based on my study of daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly financial records of bank craps tables in a number of major casinos in Nevada and the Caribbean for over 25 years. The study of these reports shows that the expected earned percentage at Bank Craps over a month?s period amounts to about 20% of the gross amount of chips purchased.

? in the long run, the 20 percent figure is the approximate hold percentage of each and every craps table that is run honestly both from the inside and the outside.?

The UNLV Center for Gaming Research recently published a study by Dr. David G. Schwartz. Nevada Table Games: Historical Hold Variations, 2014:

The following table shows the average, maximum, and minimum monthly hold percentages for the period January 2004 through August 2014 for:

Craps Monthly Statewide Hold Percentages, 2004-2014

Average ? 13.08

High ? 17.56
Low ? 8.03
Variation ? 9.53
"Any monthly result that deviates significantly from ? 13.06% (Craps) will impact monthly gaming revenues in a way that may distort the true level of play."
Craps Annual Statewide Hold Percentages, 1992-2013

Average ? 12.96

High ? 13.72
Low ? 11.55
Variation ? 2.17
Link to 2014 UNLV Study

We started posting all over the internet Dice boards that Atlantic City Tax Returns were showing the following extremely abnormal Win percentages for Craps in Casinos with suspected unbalanced dice ? a very small sample was quickly gathered:
Tropicana, NJ Craps hold for Jan, 2012 was 70.03%
Resorts Casino, NJ craps Win % for Sept, 2012 was 24.1%
Tropicana, NJ Craps win percentage for April, 2012 was 39.0 % according to their NJ tax return signed by Jeff Bohrer, Casino Controller.
Harrah's Resort Atlantic City craps Win % for February, 2012 was 29.6 %

Caesars Atlantic City craps Win % for February, 2012 was 32.2 %
Beancounters are under pressure to make profits to cover increasing Debt service incurred in building Mega-resorts. Casinos are now run by corporations -- corporations are greedy --- No CEO is happy with 20% .... 20% will barely cover the suits salary, not their Christmas bonuses and other mega-resort perks.

The Bottom Line is if Caesars can double their monthly profits from 16% to 32%, which they did in February, 2012, that is an extra $2 million profit a month just from Craps. So why wouldn't greedy corporations use unbalanced dice to their advantage over most unsuspecting casual craps players.

Then we started getting reports that Caesars Atlantic City was using unbalanced dice more and more than just on occasional weekend shifts beginning with the 4th quarter of 2013 so we thought we would check their tax returns:

Caesars Atlantic City Craps Win % for:
October, 2013 at 36.1 %

November, 2013 at 27.2 %

December, 2013 ? NOT DISCLOSED

January, 2014, etc. ? NOT DISCLOSED
Transparency is becoming non-existent. What is New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and company trying to hide. Makes you wonder "don't rule out malice."

On October 24th, 2014 the Wizard of Vegas (Michael Shackleford) posted on his recently sold website wizardofvegas.com/forum:
?This has been said already, but if you are seeing over 40% of rolls land on seven, then I would track which kind of seven. I don't think dice could be shaved to cause an equal distribution of 4-3, 5-2, and 6-1 sevens. So, gather some data to determine which which sevens are the most frequent. Then just make a hop bets on that seven.

Even if the sevens are equally distributed at 13.33% probability each, the expected return on each of the 1-6, 2-5, and 3-4 hop bets, assuming a win of 15 to 1, would be 0.1333*15 + 0.8667*-1 = 1.1333. In other words, a player advantage of 113%.

When is the next flight?

Nah, I think I'll just stay here and play 8-5 Bonus Poker ... ?

The Wizard's advise is great in theory, but lacks fundamentals of reality as the casinos know that most craps players ASSuME that the dice are fair and balanced and don?t even think twice about the probabilities of what is happening right in front of their eyes when a casino may use unbalanced or percentage dice for a shift.

? and then try to hide it by not disclosing the true tax return win percentages.

Link and references for above: http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/
 

StevieD

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Great stuff Harley. I have been noticing a lot more crap numbers being thrown than 6's and 8's. Not just on a one time trip to a casino but over many trips. Both in AC, at Ceasers and Trumps especially. Also the CT Casinos Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun. So we started going to Twin River in Rhode Island and it became the same thing there. It seems they have a certain number of shaved dice in the grouping.

Seeing as how they are doing this and can get away with it. How do we beat them. Other than not playing.
 

HarleyHorn

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Happy New Years .... I know you have more serious investing to do with your monies this time of year, but if you happen upon a Craps table with your winnings, you may want to remember these possibilities:

Casino Marketing and Countermeasures ...

Each casino can use from one to 4 types of dice in a week. The resin compound formula in the white pips varies from dice type even within a casino. Even with today's plastics, there are other ways to make near perfectly square dice unblanced. So do you really think a casino would just have 1 type of BlackJack in a casino ALL with the same house edge ??!! ..... then why would you even think that they would only offer 1 game of craps without varying the house edge among the tables .... all too often, you will have some kind of house edge variance between tables. (see http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/ )

It's called Casino Marketing 101 .... no different than a retail store having a different profit margin on most items in the store. We learn in marketing courses that the most profitable items are at the end of the aisles and also at eye level, and that the best buys can be found on the bottom row .... same in a casino, usually the back row of tables, or at least not the main corner aisle table.

Sun Tzu gives us 2 valuable lessons in The Art of War. One is in ?the Nine Situations?, that if you manage to seize a favorable position, the amount of information that we choose to disclose should be limited ?.. thus we cannot disclose on a public forum all we know on how to combat the biased dice that casinos are using because they would simply just make countermeasures.

Second, Sun Tzu tells us that:
Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster
The Gambler's Book Shop in Las Vegas motto is "knowledge is protection." At the store, they have a book by Steven L. Forte for $750.00 called ?Casino Game Protection: A Comprehensive Guide? ?.. you can also get it on Amazon from about $300. to $1,000.

As explained on this website, there are no technical dice specification laws in Nevada and Forte states in his aforementioned book on page 247:
The bottom line: in jurisdictions without regulations that set forth an acceptable range of tolerances or standards, it can be difficult to state when a die is legally acceptable, or when it should be deemed a cheating device.
This vagueness in the Nevada dice laws allows the casinos to have an unfair game and increase the House edge as much as they desire --- just like they did when they started using 6:5 BlackJack to increase the House edge by over 800 percent (see http://www.blackjack-scams.com/html/6_5_blackjack.html )

.... many still think that is ridiculous !!
 

HarleyHorn

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My "best kept secret" is the $ 4.95 steak special at the Ellis Island Casino. Can't beat the BBQ there either !!!

The Ellis Island Steak Special is not so special at $10 now xstop

However, I have learned how to invest your SuperBowl winnings on the craps table with an incredible 90%+ success rate .... Yes ... I have learned the secret of winning at craps from this guy Travis that reveals all in his course materials at http://www.TrinityMethod.info

I have tried many craps systems over the years but this is the real deal .... it's not a system but a method that exposes the secrets of craps ... And I paid for my course in 1 session at the tables
 

tigerfan

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HH - always enjoyed this thread -

Is this your system?
What can you tell us about it?
Seems like an increase your bet type of a deal. Is that right?

Thanks
 

yyz

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On the course!
The Ellis Island Steak Special is not so special at $10 now xstop

However, I have learned how to invest your SuperBowl winnings on the craps table with an incredible 90%+ success rate .... Yes ... I have learned the secret of winning at craps from this guy Travis that reveals all in his course materials at http://www.TrinityMethod.info

I have tried many craps systems over the years but this is the real deal .... it's not a system but a method that exposes the secrets of craps ... And I paid for my course in 1 session at the tables

ar131768840524726.png
 

HarleyHorn

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HH - always enjoyed this thread -

Is this your system?
What can you tell us about it?
Seems like an increase your bet type of a deal. Is that right?

Thanks
Nope - not my system and it really isn't a system but an education on craps methodology that I have never seen taught anywhere and I have taken over a dozen craps courses.

This Trinity course changed the whole way I look at craps now and I use it almost everyday with success .... And no, I never increase my bets unless my bankroll increases .... Which it has several times

But I never increase my bets during a session, in fact the course warns you about systems that do that ... On the other hand, the Trinity Method is so flexible that I can mix in different styles of betting with the rules and guidelines and walk away a winner over 90% of the time ... Hard to find anything in the casino with that success rate

For over 10 years I enjoyed the 7-Stars weekend hot breakfast and Asian dinners at Las Vegas Caesars private dining 7-Stars room -- not any more -- the plates and bowls are GONE hmh .... For Chinese New Year all Caesar's could furnish were napkins and tangerines .... Now I take my business across the street to Bellagio where they have 24/7 hot plates and chocolate chip cookies for their Black card holders
 

HarleyHorn

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I have been lucky enough to attend 8 Las Vegas Casino VIP Superbowl parties - several at Caesar's, several at Bellagio and 1 at both Golden Nugget and Sunset Station ..... I rate Bellagio the best with their leather couches, Stadium Lazyboys, steak, sushi and prime ice cream and chocolates, not to mention good Superbowl basics of cheesy nachos :toast:

Caesar's is a far 2nd with mostly gourmet hot dogs

..... But the absolutely worst Superbowl party I have ever been to was at Sunset Station for their Chairman only status members .... Plastic forks that would not cut through their tough chicken wings, hot dogs and cookies that was all taken away in the 3rd Quarter xstop what the Hell #!?!$#%!? .... And their big screens were movie projection type with the screens being placed by the Air conditioning vents so that every play had a wave motion going through it .... sad really .... And the chairs were padded, but uncomfortable to sit in for more than a quarter
 

HarleyHorn

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Pay for parking on the Strip - yes, unless you have Platinum status or higher at Caesar's and Pearl or higher at MGM, you now have to pay for parking on the Strip at these 2 large casino conglomerates ..... Caesar's is finishing construction on their parking pay boxes now, MGM already in service

Good news is now there is plenty of parking at the Strip pay garages, many patrons are just saying no
 

HarleyHorn

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...However, I have learned how to invest your SuperBowl winnings on the craps table with an incredible 90%+ success rate .... Yes ... I have learned the secret of winning at craps from this guy Travis that reveals all in his course materials at http://www.TrinityMethod.info
speaking of the Superbowl, which seems like so long ago now - I have not lost a single craps bet using the Trinity Method since the Superbowl

.... And I am saying that to myself as I am counting my profit at the craps table this morning and looking for wood to knock on :SIB where the hades did all the wood Craps tables go ?!!! ... Nothing but plastic laminated crap

And what is up with all these new skirted tables that all the Vegas Caesar's properties and Encore has put in ?!! -- no visible legs as the skirt goes all the way to the floor :nono:
IMG_3626.JPG
 

HarleyHorn

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If you ignore the guy grabbing ass :scared you will notice these tables at the Vegas Linq casino are also skirted all the way to the floor - what are they hiding under there xstop
2cz4gvk.jpg

I saw a die bounce off one table and roll under the other table's skirt and they couldn't get it so they actually ended up playing the game with only 4 dice - until the dice came to me. I demanded a selection from 5 dice so they inserted a new stick of dice after getting permission from security.

The point is all dice are not created equal and the way the dice were rolling I was beginning to think 1 of the more fair dice was stuck under the skirt
 

StevieD

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Has anyone played in CT. Mohgan Sun or Fox Tower and been able to win in the past year or so? I used to go once a week but gave up. Surprisingly doing very good at the Automated Craps at Plainridge.
 

HarleyHorn

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Has anyone played in CT. Mohgan Sun or Fox Tower and been able to win in the past year or so? I used to go once a week but gave up. Surprisingly doing very good at the Automated Craps at Plainridge.
StevieD - although I do not have personal experience at the casinos you mention, we are getting several reports of very unbalanced dice being used by the Indian Reservation casinos .... This is an example of unbalanced dice:

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.... Well crap, I can toss the dice, but I don't know how to embed a YouTube video $!?$ :facepalm: .... But if you click on the link, the video works
 
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