Will they find the plane this weekend?

[MadJack]

HAHA! LOL

That's exactly what happened. Why doesn't this get discussed on television? :facepalm:

 

[ChrryBlstr]

That's exactly what happened. Why doesn't this get discussed on television? :facepalm:

Well, although quite plausible, it still hasn't been confirmed.

Plus, I do find the radical Muslim terrorist pilot co-pilot hijackers stealing the plane and arming it with nukes to attack us with conspiracy theories and scenarios much more entertaining.

Peace!

 

[Sportsaholic]

That's exactly what happened. Why doesn't this get discussed on television? :facepalm:

They are going over it now on CNN.....get with the program......:0003

 

[The Joker]

This theory is not news worthy. Ban!

:0003

HAHA! LOL

That's exactly what happened. Why doesn't this get discussed on television? :facepalm:

Well, although quite plausible, it still hasn't been confirmed.

Plus, I do find the radical Muslim terrorist pilot co-pilot hijackers stealing the plane and arming it with nukes to attack us with conspiracy theories and scenarios much more entertaining.

Peace!

Here's what I took away from it...........

Ongoing speculation of a hijacking and/or murder-suicide and that there was a flight engineer on board does not sway me in favor of foul play until I am presented with evidence of foul play.



I believe evidence of foul play has been established. opcorn2

 

[MadJack]

They are going over it now on CNN.....get with the program......:0003

Yeah, they texted me and asked if they could use it. :0003

 

[Lumi]

Every new explanation almost seems
Like it's designed to confuse and overwhelm
The public

These so called experts are grasping at straws
Hoping to be the guy to get it right

Going back and forth between the 3 cable news networks
Is like Groundhog Day
Same 'Expert'
Different Bubble Head Anchor

Russia/Ukraine is a secondary story

Quantities Easing Addiction isn't even discussed

 

[Cie]

I find it to be tragic, not entertaining, that these people are missing and most likely dead.

As of now, theories of electrical malfunction and hijack both seem plausible to me.

 

[Morris]

US officials reported that the pilots are clean. Nothing suspicious.

 

[JOSHNAUDI]

I find it to be tragic, not entertaining, that these people are missing and most likely dead.

As of now, theories of electrical malfunction and hijack both seem plausible to me.

I've spent more time on the subject than I should but I have found it hard to talk about the incident because I am not sure what I believe

fire doesn't make sense because i find it unlikely that it knocked out communications before a may day could be made but then continues to fly for 7 hours on a route that evades radar detection once westward of Malaya (Except for the satellite pings)

Hijacking from inside the plane doesn't make sense because the ACARS is turned off before the final radio relay and then the timing of the transponder turning off afterwards would be too unlikely for a cockpit breach

Suicide - Why disable communications, transponder and fly for 7 hours evading radar to kill yourself. Also you would have to neutralize your pilot/copilot. And when planes crash an emergency locator beacon would be activated alerting transmitting position. Of note the black box broadcasts location for 30 days and can be heard in up to 14000 feet of water.

Pilot(s) hijack - Subdue pilot/copilot unless it is a team/cell. Transmission cutoff at time of hand off makes this likely. But then unusual climb to 45000 feet and drop 23000. (maybe a struggle or to depressurize and dispatch the passengers) After that you fly back over Malaysia with the risk that a single pending text message gets out or cell tower pings a phone, but fortunately does not happen. Nor does it happen when landing safely which was pulled off after avoiding radar even though they were picked up multiple times going back over Malaysia. Shadowing a jumbo jet in a jumbo jet (heavy) lights off in the dark without alerting the other plane or losing distance and turning in to two separate radar hits even at the time of separation is hard to believe.

If it crashed there should be an ELT - Emergency Location Transmission going off

If it didn't crash and landed, they were most meticulous when eliminating communication/going dark - avoiding detection - and flying for 7 hours and not a peep of it from anyone that may have been involved

I have no clue what hapened

 

[Lumi]

Josh
I'm not totally familiar with ACARS
But when I was operating the Land based system
We could pinpoint vehicle location within 100m
If system went offline, which we needed to know
For obvious reasons and security as well

When we were bringing this system into the loop,
The Sensativity of This equipment was so high
The Division CG could not view our equipment unless
He was designated as an operator or maintainence
During Training Missions
The only way to eliminate our system was to use a chem light
As a grenade and to throw it within 10 meters of our generators
Both generators had to be 'destroyed' to take us offline
Which we would then handoff control to the Rear System Operators

All Opposing forces were briefed by our team as well as
Their leaders. Turning off the generator to these systems
Is an automatic Article 15, reduction in rank and pay
A few soldiers did not take heed to our warnings

 

[fatdaddycool]

A fire or lightning strike is by far the most plausible explanation. Also, you can't fly to 45,000 feet and just rapidly decompress. Oxygen masks would drop immediately. So that's out. The biggest indicator for me is the sign off and lack of distress calls.

 

[hedgehog]

I think its on the ground in Pakistan in a hanger with the WMD's that were taken there 10 years ago or so, all people on board alive, I just wonder whats next....

 

[JOSHNAUDI]

A fire or lightning strike is by far the most plausible explanation. Also, you can't fly to 45,000 feet and just rapidly decompress. Oxygen masks would drop immediately. So that's out. The biggest indicator for me is the sign off and lack of distress calls.

The other thing I read about a heavy gaining altitude to 45000 feet would have burned a shit load of fuel and would have pushed the limit on the plane actually attaining that height

That being said - after that occurred

The plane made multiple turns and flew for 7 hours avoiding radar detection with no communication

That doesn't sound like lightning or fire to me.

 

[JOSHNAUDI]

Thanks for sharing Lumi - Crazy stuff on the land based system

updated ACARS from http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6030193/2/#1

ACARS ? ACARS is an automated aircraft communication system that transmits a/c information, including navigation, operations, maintenance, etc to ATC and maintenance facilities. ? ACARS is NOT a flight system - it is not needed for safe flight. ? ACARS is a subscription service and costs money. All indications are the MH370 was subscribed only to engine health monitoring and data from that is sent to Rolls Royce. ? ACARS communicates via VHF, <acronym title="OLD: Hapag Lloyd (Germany), NEW: Hapagfly (Germany)" style="border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dotted; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); cursor: help;">HF</acronym> or SATCOM. The communications channel depends on availability and is independent of the ACARS. ? ACARS can be instructed not to use SATCOM, <acronym title="OLD: Hapag Lloyd (Germany), NEW: Hapagfly (Germany)" style="border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dotted; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); cursor: help;">HF</acronym> or VHF from the Cockpit. This would effectively stop ACARS from sending data. Access to the EE bay is not required. ? Reports that ACARS was disabled before the <acronym title="Lagos - Murtala Muhammed (Ikeja) (LOS / DNMM), Nigeria" style="border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dotted; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); cursor: help;">LOS</acronym> event were incorrect. The last ACARS transmission was at 1:07. The next was expected at 1:37 and was not received. This means ACARS communication was disabled between those times. This could be action by the flight-deck crew or system failure. ? UPDATE: ACARS can be used to send navigation information from ATC to the aircraft and vise versa. ? This later fact is causing confusion that I've been unable to rectify as yet. See ACARS and FMS Communications below. <tbody> </tbody>

ACARS data from MH370 ? The ACARS system sent 2 engine health reports to Rolls Royce, both prior to the <acronym title="Lagos - Murtala Muhammed (Ikeja) (LOS / DNMM), Nigeria" style="border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dotted; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); cursor: help;">LOS</acronym> event. ? The Rolls Royce page indicates that a 'snapshot' of engine data would be sent at: takeoff, climb, cruise and landing. We know 2 ACARS Engine Health reports were received, so that would be consistent with the 1st two. ? The last engine health report was received at 1:07am. The next was expected at 1:37 am and was not received. This indicates that the transmission of ACARS data was disabled between 1:07 and 1:37, but not when during that period. ? The Engine Health report received prior to <acronym title="Lagos - Murtala Muhammed (Ikeja) (LOS / DNMM), Nigeria" style="border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dotted; border-bottom-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); cursor: help;">LOS</acronym> had 'interesting' altitude data/fluctuations including 40K drop in a minute. That data is suspect. ? Since no "landing" report was received, then either the ACARS communication was disabled, or the a/c did not land. ? We have not heard if ACARS would send a report upon fuel starvation flame-out. <tbody> </tbody>

<tbody>
</tbody>

 

[IE]

 

[LuvThemDogs]

Yet another possible theory....this time from a pilot's perspective....

There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; it?s almost disturbing. I tend to look for a simpler explanation, and I find it with the 13,000-foot runway at Pulau Langkawi.

We know the story of MH370: A loaded Boeing 777 departs at midnight from Kuala Lampur, headed to Beijing. A hot night. A heavy aircraft. About an hour out, across the gulf toward Vietnam, the plane goes dark, meaning the transponder and secondary radar tracking go off. Two days later we hear reports that Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar, meaning the plane is tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca.

When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and searched for airports in proximity to the track toward the southwest.

The left turn is the key here. Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. They?re always in our head. Always. If something happens, you don?t want to be thinking about what are you going to do?you already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.

Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.

For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.

There are two types of fires. An electrical fire might not be as fast and furious, and there may or may not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility, given the timeline, that there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires, it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes, this happens with underinflated tires. Remember: Heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long-run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)

What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that route?looking elsewhere is pointless.

Ongoing speculation of a hijacking and/or murder-suicide and that there was a flight engineer on board does not sway me in favor of foul play until I am presented with evidence of foul play.

We know there was a last voice transmission that, from a pilot?s point of view, was entirely normal. ?Good night? is customary on a hand-off to a new air traffic control. The ?good night? also strongly indicates to me that all was OK on the flight deck. Remember, there are many ways a pilot can communicate distress. A hijack code or even transponder code off by one digit would alert ATC that something was wrong. Every good pilot knows keying an SOS over the mike always is an option. Even three short clicks would raise an alert. So I conclude that at the point of voice transmission all was perceived as well on the flight deck by the pilots.

But things could have been in the process of going wrong, unknown to the pilots.

Evidently the ACARS went inoperative some time before. Disabling the ACARS is not easy, as pointed out. This leads me to believe more in an electrical problem or an electrical fire than a manual shutdown. I suggest the pilots probably were not aware ACARS was not transmitting.

As for the reports of altitude fluctuations, given that this was not transponder-generated data but primary radar at maybe 200 miles, the azimuth readings can be affected by a lot of atmospherics and I would not have high confidence in this being totally reliable. But let?s accept for a minute that the pilot may have ascended to 45,000 feet in a last-ditch effort to quell a fire by seeking the lowest level of oxygen. That is an acceptable scenario. At 45,000 feet, it would be tough to keep this aircraft stable, as the flight envelope is very narrow and loss of control in a stall is entirely possible. The aircraft is at the top of its operational ceiling. The reported rapid rates of descent could have been generated by a stall, followed by a recovery at 25,000 feet. The pilot may even have been diving to extinguish flames.

But going to 45,000 feet in a hijack scenario doesn?t make any good sense to me.

Regarding the additional flying time: On departing Kuala Lampur, Flight 370 would have had fuel for Beijing and an alternate destination, probably Shanghai, plus 45 minutes?say, 8 hours. Maybe more. He burned 20-25 percent in the first hour with takeoff and the climb to cruise. So when the turn was made toward Langkawi, he would have had six hours or more hours worth of fuel. This correlates nicely with the Inmarsat data pings being received until fuel exhaustion.

The now known continued flight until time to fuel exhaustion only confirms to me that the crew was incapacitated and the flight continued on deep into the south Indian ocean.

There is no point speculating further until more evidence surfaces, but in the meantime it serves no purpose to malign pilots who well may have been in a struggle to save this aircraft from a fire or other serious mechanical issue. Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a hero struggling with an impossible situation trying to get that plane to Langkawi. There is no doubt in my mind. That?s the reason for the turn and direct route. A hijacking would not have made that deliberate left turn with a direct heading for Langkawi. It probably would have weaved around a bit until the hijackers decided where they were taking it.

Surprisingly, none of the reporters, officials, or other pilots interviewed have looked at this from the pilot?s viewpoint: If something went wrong, where would he go? Thanks to Google Earth I spotted Langkawi in about 30 seconds, zoomed in and saw how long the runway was and I just instinctively knew this pilot knew this airport. He had probably flown there many times.

Fire in an aircraft demands one thing: Get the machine on the ground as soon as possible. There are two well-remembered experiences in my memory. The AirCanada DC9 which landed, I believe, in Columbus, Ohio in the 1980s. That pilot delayed descent and bypassed several airports. He didn?t instinctively know the closest airports. He got it on the ground eventually, but lost 30-odd souls. The 1998 crash of Swissair DC-10 off Nova Scotia was another example of heroic pilots. They were 15 minutes out of Halifax but the fire overcame them and they had to ditch in the ocean. They simply ran out of time. That fire incidentally started when the aircraft was about an hour out of Kennedy. Guess what? The transponders and communications were shut off as they pulled the busses.

Get on Google Earth and type in Pulau Langkawi and then look at it in relation to the radar track heading. Two plus two equals four. For me, that is the simple explanation why it turned and headed in that direction. Smart pilot. He just didn?t have the time.

Chris Goodfellow has 20 years experience as a Canadian Class-1 instrumented-rated pilot for multi-engine planes. His theory on what happened to MH370 first appeared on Google+. We?ve copyedited it with his permission.

1CORRECTION 9:40 a.m. Eastern 03/18/14: An editing error introduced a typo in Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah?s name.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

This is not plausible. Biggest flaw in this theory is that the pilot had many different options to make a distress signal to air traffic controllers and none were made. Instead of making distress signals, various transponders and signal alerts were turned off at different intervals over a period of time. And the plane was redirected and reprogrammed to change the flight pattern. If that could be done, surely a distress signal could have been made as well.....

 

[gardenweasel]

just said on t.v. that thailand finally reported that the plane was spotted by their military radar during the flight........but they just recently came forward with the information after other nations were searching for days....

why didn`t they provide this info?....because they weren`t asked......seriously...

half the civilized world is searching for this plane(you`d have to live in a cave not to know that)........wtf is going on on the other side of the world?.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...70-followed-twisting-path-Strait-Malacca.html

 

[Lumi]

Our operating system is Linux based
So every morning when in the school at Fort Gordon
Or out in the field. We ha to pull out Windows brain out
And install our Linux into our nuggets!!
That was tough going.
We had equipment that wasn't used for public use
For 5 or more years

 

[Morris]

just said on t.v. that thailand finally reported that the plane was spotted by their military radar during the flight........but they just recently came forward with the information after other nations were searching for days....

why didn`t they provide this info?....because they weren`t asked......seriously...

half the civilized world is searching for this plane(you`d have to live in a cave not to know that)........wtf is going on on the other side of the world?.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...70-followed-twisting-path-Strait-Malacca.html

This is one of the things that I don't understand. Gov'ts and officials providing info and data only to come out the next day and change their statements. Why in the first place would they make statements if they were not sure of the info???

.

 

[Morris]

So every morning when in the school at Fort Gordon

Small world?.my son is there now.