a quick poll--need some input

[pt1gard]

9/11 for dummies

9/11 for dummies

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7427527670299254545 :00hour

 

[marine]

Odigo Workers Received
Warning of 9/11 Attacks


Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don't know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya.

As an instant messaging service, Odigo users are not limited to sending messages only to people on their "buddy" list, as is the case with ICQ, the other well-known Israeli instant messaging application.

Odigo usually zealously protects the privacy of its registered users, said Macover, but in this case the company took the initiative to provide the law enforcement services with the originating Internet Presence address of the message, so the FBI could track down the Internet Service Provider, and the actual sender of the original message.

You missed one tiny fact in this article. The two employees that recieved the instant messages were located in Israel

The story...

An Israeli company called Odigo received advanced warning of the attacks. Here?s Alex Jones take on the story:

Odigo admitted publicly... that yes, they got a warning, an Instant Message, hundreds of their employees, in the Towers, and told them, to leave the building, 4 hours before the planes slammed into it. This is on the record and cannot be ignored.
Alex Jones
Martial Law 911

And repeated in one of his radio interviews...

Odigo admits that they instant messaged their people to get out of the building.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2005/300305newrevelations.htm

Our take...

Jones makes a dramatic story, and from this account you?d think the case was proven. After all, a warning that saved hundreds of lives cannot be ignored, right? Trouble is, what he?s saying isn?t exactly accurate. Let?s look at the original report.

Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don't know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744&contrassID=/has\

So, problem #1 with Jones account: the company say nothing about telling their employees to ?leave the building?. They told no-one about the message until after the attacks. But didn?t they feel under threat? No, these employees were in Israel, not America.

Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales and marketing, confirmed
that workers in Odigo's research and development and international
sales office in Israel received a warning from another Odigo user
approximately two hours prior to the first attack.
http://amenusa.org/prior.htm

Still, the message did predict the attack, right? Maybe not.

Odigo Vice President of Sales and Marketing... Alex Diamandis today in a telephone interview also said the warning message did not identify the World Trade Center as the attack target.
http://amenusa.org/prior.htm

That explains why they didn?t notify their employees in the towers, then -- they didn?t know the attack was coming after all. In fact for all we know, the message could have been something very vague that only seemed meaningful later: ?America will pay for its crimes, and sooner than anyone believes?. That seems plausible from the comment Alex Diamandis made in another article.

"Without going into details, the message was most noteworthy due to the timing, not due to the substance of the 'warning.' It could easily be coincidence," Diamandis said.
http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/8471_893851

There is another reason why Odigo didn?t alert their WTC employees, of course. They didn?t have any offices there.

Odigo's New York office is located four blocks from the site of the World Trade Center, in an area that was blocked off for a short time following the attacks.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/09/WTC_Odigo2.html

And just by way of completeness, it doesn?t even seem Odigo had ?hundreds? of employees to flee the WTC office that, uh, they didn?t have.

[June 13th 2001]
The Odigo team consists of 80 employees.
http://www.ruksun.com/html/news/odigo.html

And also, once you know the full story, another question comes to mind. If this is supposed to be a "warning", why send it to people in Israel who would be unaffected by the event? And not give them enough information to warn colleagues closer to the attacks, in New York? It doesn't make sense, and without knowing the message text, it certainly doesn't prove foreknowledge.

 

[THE KOD]

ok marine you explained that one .

Now here is five more to try to figure out.

its a conspiracy I tell you

:SIB

 

[Agent 0659]

This message is hidden because Scott-Atlanta is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because marine is on your ignore list.

Ahhhhhhhhhh the peace and quiet!!!! :00hour

Somehow, this smiley seemed appropriate for you two...


:00x7 :00x7 :00x7

 

[THE KOD]

Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

ptguard, add this guy to your list of liars and cover-uppers. :s5: I guess people think it was a missile because there wasn't some wiley-coyoteesque plane outline in the Pentagon facade. :SIB

................................................................

As early as page three.

No answers

 

[THE KOD]

ptguard, I quoted the Chief Instructor. You quoted "staff members". Maybe he was terrible taking off and landing, but apparently, he was plenty good enough to crash land. Don't see how this proves anything but that he could have done it.:shrug: He also at one time in 1999 PASSED his exam. I don't think those are just given out. He had to have some merit. Even a .189 batter gets 3 hits in a game sometimes.

...........................................................

again no answers just insults.

 

[THE KOD]

Bush is really a robot from another planet. I can come up with hundreds of "facts" why and you will never convince me or come up with conclusive proof I am wrong. Same with this BS conspiracy crap. Every major disaster has a conspiracy theory behind it. Its not hard to start one. If someone took a few hours, they could come up with a conspiracy and all sorts of connections that would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Colonel Sanders is not only still alive but was really behind 9/11. And, if they believed in it, you would ever, ever convince them that they were wrong.

................................................................

nice post flapjack

 

[THE KOD]

These do a pretty good job of explaining, I think. I cut and pasted parts of the articles bellow each...



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/6354139.stm

"But in the 20th Century, and particularly since the 1960s, conspiracy theories have increasingly pointed the finger of blame at the powerful, usually the government and the intelligence agencies.

In effect, the principal target of conspiracy theories has shifted from the "red scare" of McCarthy's distrust of communism to the "fed scare" - a deep distrust of anything official.

This is partly a result of a loss of faith in authorities in recent decades: opinion polls show that in the US in the early 1960s three quarters of Americans trusted the government, but by the 1990s only a quarter claimed to do so. "



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/6213226.stm


"Conspiracy theories abound all across the world and psychologists have begun to try to understand why people believe in conspiracy theories.

My own research suggests that people think that a major or significant event must have been caused by something similarly major, significant or powerful.

Magnitude of explanation

However, often official accounts for events, or more mundane, everyday explanations, fail to seem big enough.


We do not feel particularly comfortable with the idea that something unpredictable or accidental like a car crash could have a big effect like the death of a Princess, or that a single mad gunman could assassinate the most powerful man in the world.

That troubles our sense of the world as being a relatively stable, safe place to live in.

Sometimes we try and cast around for an explanation that matches the magnitude of the event that we see in front of us, and conspiracy theories can provide that explanation.

Psychological tests I have carried out suggest that the more you believe in conspiracy theories the more likely you are to mistrust reported facts.

This is, on one level at least, obvious. But it is important to help us to understand how conspiracy theorists often deal with those taking a critical position.

For instance, when I first started working in the area I received a number of messages from individuals implying I was working for some secretive government organization or another. This, they claimed, must explain why I was asking the questions I was."





http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6368341.stm

"I think the most potent targets for conspiracy theories are events of disproportionate tragedy. For example, the president of the United States is assassinated by a lone gunman. It doesn't seem fair, it doesn't seem right, it can't be. This one guy couldn't have done it - there must be larger forces at work."


The most potent targets for conspiracy theory are events of disproportionate tragedy

Frank Spotnitz, The X Files writer


Frank Spotnitz on conspiracy theories
And so we take comfort in complicated stories about wider conspiracies, usually involving remote, distant figures.

In the past it was mythical gods and monsters. In the more secular modern world, ancient superstitions have been discarded - now it's out-of-touch leaders and unseen government agencies who fill the role of the bogeymen.

We find it reassuring to create an explanation that vindicates our world view. It reinforces our beliefs, suspicions and, yes, even our prejudices.



http://www.economist.com/science/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=1648616


Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, Patrick Leman of Royal Holloway, a college of the University of London, has presented the results of his research into conspiracy theories to the annual meeting of the British Psychological Society, which was held last week in Bournemouth. He thinks the reason people believe in conspiracy theories is that humans have an innate tendency to try to link major events with major causes.

To test this idea Dr Leman presented 64 students with clippings of articles that looked as though they had been taken from a newspaper. In fact, the articles had been made up. They were about the president of a fictional country, and they came in four versions, of which each student saw but one. In the first version, the president was shot and killed. In the second, he was shot but survived. In the third, the shot missed, but he died shortly afterwards from an unrelated cause. In the fourth, the shot missed and he lived. The students were asked to rate the likely truth of six statements on the subject of whether the assassin was a gunman acting alone, or whether there was a conspiracy at work. They were also asked to rate the accuracy of the ?facts? in the article.

Some of the results were unsurprising. For example, subjects with high general levels of belief in conspiracy theories were much more doubting of the facts in the articles. That fits with what is already known?that people who like conspiracy theories tend to bat away any evidence that contradicts their point of view.

More surprisingly, Dr Leman found that if the fictional president ?died? after the shooting, readers were much more likely to believe that the gunman was part of a conspiracy. This was true even though the other facts in the story were unchanged, and even if the death was due to an unrelated cause, such as a heart attack. This curious observation is the basis of Dr Leman's hypothesis that there is some underlying process in human psychology that assumes that the bigger the effect is, the bigger the cause must have been.





Don't know who this guy is, but the research is interesting...

http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/gw_rmd1.htm

Given the number of respondents who admit believing that the four above-mentioned conspiracy theories may be true, we may now examine the possible reasons behind why such a significant portion of the population hold such beliefs.


Goertzel identified three traits as being correlated with a belief in conspiracy theories:


anomia, the respondent stated a belief that he/she felt alienated or disaffection relative to ?the system;?
a tendency to distrust other people; and
a feeling of insecurity regarding continued employment.

Citing Volkan5, who suggested that insecure and/or discontented people very often feel a need for a tangible enemy on which to externalize their anger, Goertzel notes that conspiracy theories may serve to provide an ?enemy? to blame for problems which ?otherwise seem too abstract and impersonal.? He further observes that conspiracy theories also provide ready answers for the believer?s unanswered questions and help to resolve contradictions between known ?facts? and an individual's belief system. The latter observation seems to be verified by the widespread acceptance within the Muslim world of the contention that the September 11 attacks were the work of Israel, in conjunction with the Bush Administration, in order to increase anti-Muslim sentiments abroad.6


Surprisingly, Goertzel found that there was no correlation between race, age, and economic status and the latter two traits. Although he did not suggest that the two latter traits mentioned above may be self-perpetuating (people who have experienced employment difficulties in the past may be more distrusting of others which, in turn, may lead to future interpersonal issues that can have a negative impact on employment), intuitive reasoning suggests that this could be possible.


In summary, I accept the published findings and opinions of Goertzel et al as being at least subjectively valid. Successful conspiracy theories are those that to some degree empower the believer against what are perceived as external forces that he/she blames for some unpleasant or undesirable facet of their lives. In addition conspiracy theories serve to absolve the individual of some degree of self-accountability since, if the individual is being ?oppressed? by some powerful conspiracy, the individual?s efforts at self-advancement will always be futile and thus become nothing more than ?a waste of time.? Sadly, it seems that conspiracy theories and their advocates are now deeply engrained in the popular psyche and without prospects for their ultimate refutation.


And, no, I?m not part of some conspiracy against conspiracy theories

............................................................

pretty much sums up the truthers

 

[THE KOD]

pt1gard,

I was where you are now man....give it up! No doubt you think things aren't on the up-and-up in this whole ordeal. Probably thinking those idiots were manipulated by intell agencies. Maybe even thinking the Pakistani ISI and Saudi secret police at the behest of u know who. But of course if any of that is true then that makes US the evil empire. Of course if that is proven then that could destroy our entire system. You must look at the bigger picture in this dog eat dog world and see why sometimes sacrafices are made for the good of the system. I can tell you won't change your mind on this issue and certainly the others won't change their minds either. That's good, their way of thinking is absolutely vital for the good of our system. This 9-11 conspiracy stuff will remain just that.....conspiracy stuff! Give it up.

..........................................................

Very logical post TT

If only he would have listened.

 

[THE KOD]

I find a lot of the conspiracy theories interesting!

But, one problem I have with the firefighters initial reactions... do they, or anybody else know what a collapsing skyscraper really should sound like?

What if that is just how they sound when they are falling or burning?

Eye-witness accounts, in situations like that, have to be taken with a few grains of salt. Sights and sounds can definitely trick the brain, especially in stressful situations.

...............................................................

exactamundo ImFeklhr

 

[THE KOD]

so, ptguard, you're like a parapro? That's good to know.

Everything that you have posted has been easily refuted.

sponge, please don't even try to compare the tragedy of 911 and theories of USA government involvement with a one crooked NBA ref fixing games. That's really sad. I've believed for years that there was fishy stuff going on in sports, and it's no shocker to me that guys are fixing games. There are several instances of that actually proven, so it's certainly not a "conspiracy theory", nor is it hard to believe.

sponge, I also believe in open debate, but the challenger or person who is proposing outlandish things has to bring something to the table, or it's not even a debate.

........................................................

still no answers from the truthers

nice post you big moose

 

[Agent 0659]

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:00hour :00hour :00hour :00hour :00hour

 

[pt1gard]

meet the boys

meet the boys

Four Planes, Four Coordinated Teams
Following are the 19 people identified by the FBI as hijackers aboard the four airliners used in terrorist attacks on Tuesday.

THE PENTAGON
American Airlines Flight 77
(Dulles to Los Angeles)
People Aboard: 64

Khalid Al-Midhar
One of two hijackers who had been on the U.S. government's watch list of suspected terrorists, he was traveling on a B-1 visa, granted for business travel within the United States. Al-Midhar also had obtained a B-2 visa, which permits pleasure travel in the country, although that visa had expired. The FBI said he lived in San Diego last year with two other suspects and also may have spent time in Los Angeles and New York. U.S. intelligence officers are exploring his background to determine whether he was linked to Zein al-Abidine al-Midhar, the former head of the Islamic Army of Aden in Yemen, who was executed a few years ago in connection with a kidnapping. That group was one of three to claim credit for last fall's bombing of the USS Cole.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nawaq Alhamzi
Lived in San Diego last year with two other suspects and also may have stayed in Fort Lee, N.J., Wayne, N.J., and Los Angeles.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salem Alhamzi
May also have lived in Fort Lee and Wayne.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Majed Moqed
The FBI said no information was available on him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hani Hanjour
Obtained a commercial pilot's license in April 1999 from the Federal Aviation Administration. The license expired six months later because he failed to complete a required medical exam. In 1996, he received flight training for a few months at a private school in Scottsdale, Ariz., but did not finish the course because his instructors thought he was not proficient enough. He listed his address as a post office box in Taife, Saudi Arabia, but he also has been linked to addresses in San Diego and Hollywood, Fla. His name was not on the American Airlines manifest for the flight because he may not have had a ticket.


RURAL PENNSYLVANIA
United Airlines Flight 93
(Newark to San Francisco)
People Aboard: 45

Saeed Alghamdi
May have trained at a school operated by Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. The FBI lists Delray Beach as a possible address.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahmed Alhaznawi
May have lived in Delray Beach and gave an Oct. 11, 1980, date of birth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahmed Alnami
May have lived in Delray Beach, according to the FBI.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ziad Jarrahi
The FBI believes he was a pilot, although it remains unclear whether he trained in the United States. Yesterday, German officials linked him to a terrorist cell they believed operated for years in Hamburg and seized "airplane-related documents" from his girlfriend's apartment. A Sunni Muslim from Lebanon, he studied aircraft construction in Germany before moving to the United States in June 2000.


WORLD TRADE CENTER-N.TOWER
American Airlines Flight 11
(Boston to Los Angeles)
People Aboard: 92

Satam Al Suqami
Twenty-five, his last known address was in the United Arab Emirates.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Waleed M. Alshehri
Apparently was a Saudi national and possibly the son of a Saudi diplomat, Ahmed Alshehri. Various documents place his age between 22 and 28. He lived in Daytona Beach, Fla., to attend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University and graduated in 1997. He held an FAA license as a private and commercial pilot and was certified as an instructor. He previously had rented a room in Vienna, Va., and also stayed at an apartment in Hamburg, Germany, shared by Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wail Alshehri
Believed to have been a 28-year-old pilot, he may have lived in Hollywood, Fla., and Newton, Mass. He used the date of birth July 31, 1973. Saudi news accounts have said he and Walled M. Alshehri were brothers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mohamed Atta
Trained at Huffman Aviation in Venice, Fla., he held a pilot's license. Atta, who was born in Egypt, formed a terrorist cell with Marwan Al-Shehhi in Hamburg, where he also attended the local Technical University and wrote a thesis on urban planning in Syria. The morning of the attacks, Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari were videotaped in Maine at the Portland Jetport boarding a 6 a.m. flight for Boston.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abdulaziz Alomari
Lived in Vero Beach, Fla., with his wife and four children and was seen traveling with Atta the morning of the attacks. Alomari is believed to have been a pilot and may also have lived in Hollywood, Fla., the FBI said.



WORLD TRADE CENTER-S.TOWER
United Airlines Flight 175
(Boston to Los Angeles)
People Aboard: 65

Marwan Al-Shehhi
Born in the United Arab Emirates, Al-Shehhi, 23, is believed to have organized a terrorist cell in Hamburg with Atta. Al-Shehhi was enrolled as an electrical engineering student there for a year but may have seldom gone to class. He trained to be a pilot at Huffman Aviation. His commercial pilot's license, which lists a Hollywood, Fla., address, rated him as a flight engineer and qualified him to fly multi-engine planes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fayez Ahmed
The FBI lists Delray Beach, Fla., as a possible address for Ahmed. In July, he rented a post office box at a Mail Boxes Etc. there, paying $51 for the three-month rental, the owner said.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahmed Alghamdi
May have previously stayed in the same Daytona Beach apartment complex once occupied by Waleed M. Alshehri. The apartment complex is home to many students at nearby Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. The FBI lists Delray Beach as a possible address for Alghamdi.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hamza Alghamdi
May have lived in Delray Beach, the FBI said. He apparently used a Mail Boxes Etc. address to obtain a Florida driver's license.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mohald Alshehri
The FBI lists Delray Beach as a possible address. He rented a box at the same Mail Boxes Etc.

 

[pt1gard]

more baffling info on the 19 phantom hijackers

more baffling info on the 19 phantom hijackers

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/9-11/9-11_hijackers_still_alive.htm

 

[pt1gard]

Even the FBI says there is no evidence to link the above men to the 9/11 hijackings.

So, one fact is apparent. If those who hijacked the 9/11 airplanes were using stolen identities, then we don't know who they were or who they worked for. We can't. It's impossible.

Now, people who are intending to commit suicide normally don't worry about whether anyone knows their real name, and it is here that some other odd aspects of this case take on a new meaning.

We are told that the group that planned and carried out the hijackings and subsequent attack on the World Trade Towers were highly trained (possibly by the CIA) experts, with knowledge of how to steal identities, forge fake IDs, and compromise White House and Air Force One security codes.

Yet at the same time, we are being told that these same hijackers spent the night before the attack getting drunk in bars, making noise, screaming insults at the "infidels", and doing everything they could to attract attention to themselves. They used the credit cards issued in their stolen names, allowed their driver's licenses with the stolen names to be photocopied, and used public library computers to send emails back and forth using their stolen names signed to unencrypted messages about their plans to steal aircraft and crash them into buildings, then decorated their apartments with absurdly obvious props such as a crop dusting manual to the point where the whole affair reads like a low budget "B" detective movie from the 1930s.

In short, these men did everything they could to make sure everyone knew who they were, or more to the point, who they were pretending to be.

Because the IDs used by the hijackers were phony, we cannot know who they really were or who they really worked for. But what is apparent is that those who planned the hijackings and the 9/11 attacks went out of their way to leave plenty of clues pointing to citizens of middle eastern Arab nations.

We don't know who planned 9/11 attacks.

But we do know who they wanted us to think they were.

We do know who they intended America to blame for the attacks.

Ameer Bukhari

"Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash last year." - CNN Correction

Adnan Bukhari

"Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida" - CNN Correction

Amer Kamfar

".... that a suspect sought by the FBI, Amer Kamfar, was in fact an alive pilot in Arabia. " - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001

 

[pt1gard]

Seven of the nineteen "hijackers" are alive and well. They were victims of identity theft, some of whom had had their passports stolen. They were interviewed by several news organizations including the Telegraph of England. Here's an excerpt from David Harrison's Telegraph story entitled:

Revealed: The Men With Stolen Identities:

"Their names were flashed around the world as suicide hijackers who carried out the attacks on America. But yesterday four innocent men told how their identities had been stolen. The men - all from Saudi Arabia - spoke of their shock at being mistakenly named by the FBI as suicide terrorists. None of the four was in the United States on September 11 and all are alive in their home country. The Telegraph obtained the first interviews with the men since they learnt that they were on the FBI's list of hijackers who died in the crashes in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. All four said that they were "outraged" to be identified as terrorists. One has never been to America and another is a Saudi Airlines pilot who was on a training course in Tunisia at the time of the attacks. Saudi Airlines said it was considering legal action against the FBI for seriously damaging its reputation and that of its pilots." 68(emphasis added)

The story of these identity thefts was also briefly reported by ABC 69 and BBC (England) 70 The FBI does not deny this. Nobody denies this fact because it is easily verifiable. Instead, the US media and government just ignore this inconvenient little fact and keep right on repeating the monstrous lie that the hijacker identities are known and that 15 of them were Saudis.

CNN revealed that FBI director Robert Mueller openly admitted that some of the identities of the 9-11 hijackers are in question due to identity theft. Here's what CNN reported on September 21:

FBI Director Robert Mueller has acknowledged that some of those behind last week's terror attacks may have stolen the identification of other people, and, according to at least one security expert, it may have been "relatively easy" based on their level of sophistication. 71

This opens up a whole Pandora's box of unanswered questions.

First and foremost of which is this: why would Osama Bin laden, the Saudi Arabian caveman, steal identities? To cover his tracks you say?

Next question: why would a Saudi Arabian, attempting to cover his tracks, steal the identities of....fellow Saudi Arabians??? What would be the point? Why go you through the trouble of stealing identities that would point back to you? Why not steal Greek identities, or Brazilian identities, or Turkish ones (or Israeli ones)? A much more logical conclusion is that non-Arabs stole these identities as part of a "false flag" operation designed to point the blame at Arabs, and Saudi Arabs in particular.

What kind of a corrupt character is FBI boss Mueller? He initially admitted that false identities were involved with 9-11, but then he allows the media to keep naming these innocent, and alive, Arabs as the hijackers? Why doesn't he correct them? More on the slimy Mr. Mueller later on!

Now I'm really going to rock your faith in the false religion of 9-11. In February of 2000, Indian intelligence officials detained 11 members of what they thought was an Al Qaeda hijacking conspiracy. It was then discovered that these 11 "Muslim preachers" were all Israeli nationals! India's leading weekly magazine, The Week, reported,...........

 

[pt1gard]

Transcript: Ashcroft Briefs on Terrorist Investigation September 13 2001

QUESTION: About the hijackers, were they ticketed passengers? If not, do you know how they got on the planes?

FBI DIRECTOR ROBERT MUELLER: Yes, they were ticketed passengers.

[...]

ASHCROFT: [T]o our best estimate and our best knowledge given the information at this time, on the four planes that crashed was at least 18. Unless contradicted by evidence, which we wouldn't anticipate, two planes had five hijackers and two other planes had four hijackers each. [...] American Airlines 77, Dulles to Los Angeles [had] four hijackers.

On Sepember 14 it was revealed by the FBI that there was another hijacker on Flight 77 - Hani Hanjour. [CNN, 9/14/01]

A few days later, it was reported that Hanjour's name was not on the passenger manifest of Flight 77 because he may not have had a ticket. [Washington Post, 9/16/01]

How was Hanjour able to board the plane if he didn't have his name on the manifest or a ticket?

If Hanjour's name wasn't on the manifest and he didn't have a ticket there can be no record whatsoever of Hanjour boarding Flight 77, so how did the FBI know he was on the plane?

Was Hanjour's name added to the hijackers when it was realised that none of the original list of Flight 77 hijackers were pilots?

 

[THE KOD]

Wednesday, May 30, 2007

Do you believe the 9/11 hijackers are still alive?

In my lengthy and always entertaining survey of the major websites promoting the belief that the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy, I'm always amused to stumble across the gem--which surfaces pretty frequently--that the hijackers are still alive.

Oh, I'm sure you've heard this theory. It's not one of the pillars of the 9/11 conspiracist belief system, but more often it's thrown in as an afterthought--"Oh, yeah, in addition to everything else, the hijackers are still alive." What's curious about the claim is that it's questioned so seldom in the conspiracist underground.

Not long ago I did a study of the specific "hijackers are still alive" claim. My results were interesting. Every single web site I found that made the claim that the 9/11 hijackers are still alive cites exactly the same source: a BBC report dating from September 23, 2001, citing confusion in the initial stages of the FBI investigation of the hijackers' identity. That original report is still preserved on the web (by conspiracst web sites) and you can find an example of it here.

However, there's a curious thing about this report. Not only has it never been corroborated, but in at least two cases it is clearly dealing with cases of mistaken identity. Take Abdelaziz Al-Amari, for instance, who is pictured in the BBC report. Not only does the picture of Al-Amari in the BBC report not even remotely resemble the Abdelaziz Al-Amari named and pictured in the 9/11 Commission Report, but the report very plainly states that there are at least two men with the name "Abdelaziz Al-Amari" who have nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

Could it be that "Abdelaziz Al-Amari" is a name that more than one person in the Arab world happens to have? Gee, ya think?

Try this. Go to Google and type your own name in. How many hits come up that aren't related to you? If one of the people with your name was suspected of committing a terrorist attack, don't you think the FBI would be talking to you, if only to rule you out?

Let's take another name listed in the report, Khalid Al-Midhar. The report shows a picture of a man purportedly with that name and says, "there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive." No sources, no corroboration, nothing. And the man pictured bears no resemblance to the Khalid Al Midhar who is accused of hijacking American Airlines Flight 77.

As for Walid Al-Shehri, the hijacker prominently pictured at the head of the story, there is no legitimate question that he is dead and that the BBC report was simply talking about a different person with the same name. Don't believe me? Read about it here.

Since this single BBC report came out more than 5 years ago, I have found absolutely no additional news report following up on the "mistaken identity" claim. Not one. Indeed, the only other "hijackers are still alive" claim that derives from anything other than this single BBC story, is this one, an AP report detailing an interview with hijacker Mohammed Atta's father--who never once claims that he has seen his son since 9/11/01, merely that he doesn't believe he would do anything like that.

All of the conspiracists' "hijackers are still alive" claims stem from that BBC report. Every single one. A few also cite the Atta interview, but don't base the claim on it.

Don't you think it's a little spurious that the entire "hijackers are still alive" claim derives from one unreliable press report, which came days after 9/11 while the investigation was still going on? Furthermore, if these people were framed (by who?), don't you think they would have come forward 5 years later? Don't you think Mohammed Atta's father would actually have seen his son instead of just making excuses for his murderous behavior? Don't you think these people would be shouting from the rooftops about how they were framed?

Why hasn't a single one of them ever come forward? Not a single one?

So what's the explanation? Hmm, sloppy journalism, perhaps? A BBC reporter writing a story on an investigation still in progress, when the FBI was still trying to sort out the real hijackers from the other, unquestionably alive men with the same names?

It's amazing how many of the pillars of the 9/11 conspiracy theories come from exactly such slender reeds. Last summer I did a blog debunking the oft-repeated claim that a New York City fire chief, Albert Turi, supposedly "testified" to hearing "explosions" in the WTC towers. As I demonstrated, this myth stems entirely from one statement made by one reporter, Pat Dawson, on the scene at the disaster. Yet Turi is quoted as a "witness" to "controlled demolition," on site after site, month after month, year after year.

If you really believe the 9/11 hijackers are still alive, I certainly hope you do so on more than just the say-so of a conspiracist web site that is quoting (or misquoting) this highly unreliable BBC story--one story, run on one day, that was never followed up on.

There is, very simply, absolutely no evidence that the 9/11 hijackers are still alive.

The 9/11 hijackers died on 9/11. That's all there is to it.

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Took me two minutes to find something refuting your stupid argument that makes more sense than the rubbage you put out about the 911 hijackers being alive :scared

 

[THE KOD]

Could it be that "Abdelaziz Al-Amari" is a name that more than one person in the Arab world happens to have? Gee, ya think?
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There is such simple answers to most of this bs
its scary that people like pt1gobble and Chud get hooked into this.

 

[THE KOD]

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I know your not a teacher but I didnt know you were african american. You seem so young.