Do U think gay couples should be able to adopt?

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Studies of relationships with adults among the offspring of lesbian and gay parents have also yielded a generally positive picture (Golombok et al., 1983; Harris & Turner, 1985/86; Kirkpatrick et al., 1981). For example, Golombok and her colleagues (1983) found that children of divorced lesbian mothers were more likely to have had recent contact with their fathers than were children of divorced heterosexual mothers. Another study, however, found no differences in this regard (Kirkpatrick et al., 1981). Harris and Turner (1985/86) studied the offspring of gay fathers as well as those of lesbian mothers; parent-child relationships were described in positive terms by parents in their sample. One significant difference between lesbian and gay parents, on the one hand, and heterosexual parents, on the other, was that heterosexual parents were more likely to say that their children's visits with the other parent presented problems for them (Harris & Turner, 1985/86).



In the Golombok et al. (1983) study, children's contacts with adult friends of their lesbian mothers were also assessed. All of the children were reported to have contact with adult friends of their mothers, and the majority of lesbian mothers reported that their adult friends were a mixture of homosexual and heterosexual adults.

Concerns that children of gay or lesbian parents are more likely than children of heterosexual parents to be sexually abused have also been addressed. Results of work in this area reveal that the great majority of adults who perpetrate sexual abuse are male; sexual abuse of children by adult women is extremely rare (Finkelhor & Russell, 1984; Jones & MacFarlane, 1980; Sarafino, 1979). Moreover, the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse cases involve an adult male abusing a young female (Jenny, Roesler, & Poyer, 1994; Jones & MacFarlane, 1980). Available evidence reveals that gay men are no more likely than heterosexual men to perpetrate child sexual abuse (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978; Jenny et al., 1994; Sarafino, 1979). Fears that children in custody of gay or lesbian parents might be at heightened risk for sexual abuse are thus without basis in the research literature.

Summary

Overall, then, results of research to date suggest that children of lesbian and gay parents have normal relationships with peers and that their relationships with adults of both sexes are also satisfactory. The picture of lesbian mothers' children that emerges from results of existing research is thus one of general engagement in social life with peers, with fathers, and with mothers' adult friends--both male and female, both heterosexual and homosexual. Studies in this area to date are few, and the data emerging from them are sketchy. On the basis of existing research findings, however, fears about children of lesbians and gay men being sexually abused by adults, ostracized by peers, or isolated in single-sex lesbian or gay communities are unfounded.

C. Diversity Among Gay and Lesbian Families

Despite the tremendous diversity evident within gay and lesbian communities, research on differences among lesbian and gay families with children is as yet quite sparse. One particularly important kind of heterogeneity involves the circumstances of children's birth or adoption. Some men and women have had children in the context of heterosexual relationships that split up after one or both parents assumed lesbian or gay identities. Much of the existing research on lesbian mothers, gay fathers, and their children was initiated to address concerns that arose for such families in the context of child custody disputes, and it was often designed at least in part to examine the veracity of common stereotypes that have been voiced in legal proceedings. A growing number of men and women have also had children after assuming lesbian or gay identities. Recently, a small body of research (e.g., Flaks, et al., 1995; McCandlish, 1987; Patterson, 1994a, 1995a; Steckel, 1987) has begun to address issues relevant to families of this type. Parents and children in these two kinds of families are likely to have experiences that differ from one another in many respects.

Many issues (for example, residential versus nonresidential parenting)have yet to be addressed directly by research. In this section, research findings on the impact of parental psychological and relationship status and on the influence of other stresses and supports are described. One dimension of difference among gay and lesbian families concerns whether or not the custodial parent is involved in a couple relationship, and if so what implications this may have for children. Pagelow (1980), Kirkpatrick et al. (1981), and Golombok et al. (1983) all reported that, in their samples, divorced lesbian mothers were more likely than divorced heterosexual mothers to be living with a romantic partner; however, none of these investigators examined connections between this variable and children's adjustment or development in lesbian mother families.



Huggins (1989) reported that self-esteem among daughters of lesbian mothers whose lesbian partners lived with them was higher than that among daughters of lesbian mothers who did not live with a partner. Because of the small sample size and absence of statistical tests, this finding should be seen as suggestive rather than conclusive. On the basis of impressions from her own work, Kirkpatrick has also stated her view that "contrary to the fears expressed in court, children in households that included the mother's lesbian lover had a richer, more open and stable family life" than did those in single parent lesbian mother households (Kirkpatrick, 1987, p. 204).

Issues related to division of family and household labor have also been studied. In families headed by lesbian couples, Patterson (1995a) found that, although mothers did not differ in their reported involvement in household and family decision-making tasks, biological mothers reported more time spent in child care and nonbiological mothers reported more time spent in paid employment. In families where mothers reported sharing child care duties relatively evenly between themselves, parents were more satisfied and children were better adjusted. Thus, equal sharing of child care duties was associated with more advantageous outcomes both for parents and for children in this study.
 

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Another aspect of diversity among gay and lesbian families relates to the psychological status and well-being of the parent. Research on parent-child relations in heterosexual families has consistently revealed that children's adjustment is often related to indices of maternal mental health. One might therefore expect factors that enhance mental health among lesbian mothers or gay fathers also to benefit their children. Lott-Whitehead and Tully (1993) reported considerable variability in the amounts of stress described by lesbian mothers, but did not describe sources of stress nor their relations to child adjustment. Rand, Graham, and Rawlings (1982) found that lesbian mothers' sense of psychological well-being was associated with their degree of openness about their lesbian identity with employers, ex-husbands, and children; mothers who felt more able to disclose their lesbian identity were more likely to express a positive sense of well-being. Unfortunately, no information about the relations of these findings to adjustment or development among children of these women has been reported to date.

Another area of great diversity among families with a gay or lesbian parent concerns the degree to which a parent's gay or lesbian identity is accepted by other significant people in a child's life. Huggins (1989) found a tendency for children whose fathers were rejecting of maternal lesbian identities to report lower self-esteem than those whose fathers were neutral or positive. Due to small sample size and absence of significance tests, this finding should be regarded as preliminary and suggestive rather than definitive. Huggins' (1989) finding does, however, raise questions about the extent to which reactions of important adults in a child's environment can influence responses to discovery of a parent's gay or lesbian identity.

Effects of the age at which children learn of parental homosexuality have also been a topic of study. Paul (1986) found that offspring who were told of parental gay, lesbian, or bisexual identity either in childhood or in late adolescence found the news easier to cope with than those who first learned of it during early to middle adolescence. Huggins (1989) also reported that those who learned of maternal lesbianism in childhood had higher self-esteem than did those who were not informed of it until they were adolescents. From a clinical perspective, it is widely agreed that early adolescence is a particularly difficult time for children to learn that a father is gay or that a mother is lesbian (Bozett, 1980; Pennington, 1987; Schulenberg, 1985).

Some investigators have also raised questions about the potential role of peer support in helping children to deal with issues raised by having a gay or lesbian parent. Lewis (1980) was the first to suggest that children's silence on the topic of parental sexual orientation with peers and siblings might add to their feelings of isolation from other children. All of the 11 adolescents studied by O'Connell (1993) reported exercising selectivity about when they disclosed information about their mothers' lesbian identities. Paul (1986) found that 29% of his young adult respondents had never known anyone else with a gay, lesbian, or bisexual parent, suggesting that the possibility of isolation is very real for some young people. Potentially



negative effects of any such isolation have not, however, been uncovered in research to date. Lewis (1980) suggested that children would benefit from support groups consisting of other children of gay or lesbian parents, and young people interviewed by O'Connell (1993) agreed, but systematic evaluations of such groups have not been reported.

In summary, research on diversity among families with gay and lesbian parents and on the potential effects of such diversity on children is only beginning (Martin 1989; Patterson, 1992, 1995b) Existing data on children of lesbian mothers suggest that children may fare better when mothers are in good psychological health and living with a lesbian partner with whom they share child care. Children may find it easier to deal with issues raised by having lesbian or gay parents if they learn of parental sexual orientation during childhood rather than during adolescence. Existing data also suggest the value of a supportive milieu, in which parental sexual orientation is accepted by other significant adults and in which children have contact with peers in similar circumstances. The existing data are, however, still very sparse, and any conclusions must be seen as tentative.

It is clear, however, that existing research provides no basis for believing that children's best interests are served by family conflict or secrecy about a parent's gay or lesbian identity, or by requirements that a lesbian or gay parent maintain a household separate from that of a same-sex partner.

D. Conclusion

In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of gay men or lesbians is compromised in any respect relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth.

It should be acknowledged that research on lesbian and gay parents and their children is still very new and

relatively scarce. Less is known about children of gay fathers than about children of lesbian mothers. Little is known about development of the offspring of gay or lesbian parents during adolescence or adulthood. Sources of heterogeneity have yet to be systematically investigated. Longitudinal studies that follow lesbian and gay families over time are badly needed.
 

TBONEZ0295

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RAYMOND,RAYMOND you out there? No I didn't think so.No offense meant FDCOOL
****TIME TO MAKE $$$$$*****
good reading but maybe I should've stayed out of this one:shrug:
Can I supply a rudimentary bibliography FDCOOL (NO) I don't find the purpose of this thread important enough, Alls I really have to offer here is my first hand experience for the last almost 15 years raising my own children I do have strong opinions on the subject though and all the statistics don't impress me at all. My opinion still remains the same NO NO NO NO NO
As for the substitution of the gay child for an already fat one,WTF that is ridiculous no predudice here my friend, as I s
aid and will say again to intentionally place a child in that cituation would be cruel.The FACT does remain there are thousands of married couples waiting, hoping and praying to adopt...........The fat kid ,how about I take you there :nono: My 14 yr. old soon to be 15 july had 5 boys jump him on the way home from school 2 years ago.He is a BIG kid nott a fighter though, guess you could call him fat thats what his peers labled him as:shrug: He is a big boy weighing in at 230 (FOOTBALL PLAYER) he was held down at knife piont this all stemmed from a nice kid living under normal circumstances (FAT KID) so how in your experiences FDCOOL or shall I say DAD,would you even consider this to be an option??? Maybe if you spent more time with YOUR 18 year old daughter and pay attention to todays youth you would agree
(QUOTE) FATDADDYCOOL
The answer to the question is simple, all of you protecting the wealth of the children by any means, be it by the wall of prejudice or the stink of ignorance...ask Jack for my e-mail and we can talk about the Big Brothers program you are currently in, or the last time you participated in anything your own children weren't involved in. I have a soon to be 18 year old daughter that I raised my damn self, until she was 7 when her mother showed back up....guess what she was and is straight....Spare me the prejudices and think of the children...other than your own of course.
That takes balls,now I know why you and kosar don't get along.....That was a definate shot against little ol me.....I don't need to get your e-mail to learn about the big brothers program I was just out at a roller skating party fund raiser last sat. as far as the incredibly ignorant question about the last time you were involved in anything my own children were involved in????Do you really have the time for me to tell?I'm not going to go there,you certainly have a way although you blame kosar for losing track of what the thread is really about."You raised your daughter your DAMN self" sounds like your angry about that?or looking for a pat on the back for taking responsibilty for your own?
Back to the subject thinking of the children other than my own OF COURSE once again NONONONONO :nono: P.S. Lets not forget the annual donation childrens hosp. of philadelphia gets from my family happily whens the last time you donated to a childrens fund of any kind?
 

fatdaddycool

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Tbone,
My apologies, my entire thread was not directed at you or any one person in particular, I am truly sorry if you took offense as that was not a shot at little ole you, I can assure you that. Although you don't know me, if you read prior posts, I usually try to make it very clear who I am talking to. Once again, sorry if you thought it was directed at you. I only used your quotes because they generally do reflect a moral majority in societal groups. That thread is directed at all. That being said...
My point is this, if you substitute overweight parents, or mixed couples, or interracial adoption, aren't you opening up the same can of worms for the child as if you were gay. You have helped me to prove my point...kids will pick on whomever they feel they can get away with it...add their parents prejudices that are instilled in the children and you have a problem. What I am saying is not new to anybody. I think as we grow older, we tend to feel that we attain wisdom and righteousness simply because of length of existence, and we use that self righteousness to justify our actions, be it in child rearing, relationships, or even the pattern you mow your grass in. That does not make it correct. The children are what count. Yes there are alot of couples waiting to adopt INFANTS, not 11 year old boys and girls. Please try to keep all of them in mind.

TTM$$$, great stuff thank you

Tbone, also the entire sentence about me raising my daughter was a direct reply to someone else....Kosar doesn't get along with me because he makes insinuations and then trys to tell you he didn't say that when the intention is quite clear...thats his game I will stand in front of anyone! and state the exact same things I am stating now. Once again, the thread is not directed at you and you have my humblest apologies as re-reading it now I can fully understand why you thought so.
 

TBONEZ0295

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******FDCOOL******
I still don't agree with you either, but I am glad to see that your capable of stepping up to the plate so to speak,and apologizing. When oppinions are asked for around here do we have to come up with documents to back what we say? or can we just reply? I certainly don't have the time to play if I need to back up everything I say. I am enjoying myself here mostly reading and keeping my posts at the SB thread, maybe thats where I shall stay:( Oh but one more thing, Am I a marked woman or can I be an individual in the event that I can't control myself and find a subject that may interest me or that I have an opinion on? My other half doesn't even read or post here much!!!!! In GenDis. that is.:shrug:
 

Senor Capper

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fatdaddycool said:
Senor capper, for someone as devout as you seem to be you certainly are well versed on pornographic expression, I mean maybe its me but I think I hear something...it certainly can't be an educated point going by.......thanks for coming...please check your ticket at the door.

Do I have to spell it out for you ?
Gay lifestyle is unacceptable period.

What part don't you understand? :shrug:

thanks for coming Mr. Crowley........please don't forget your tube of KY, as the door is not the only thing that will hit you in the azz.
:D



SC


"the well versed on pornographic expression capper" :thefinger
 

djv

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hold it Senor Capper. It is ok a few places. Saudi, beileve it or not more there then in San Fran. And if you got the bucks Hollywood will look the other way. What happen to men were men and so were the women. Then we could just say Amen. ;)
 

AR182

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Hello There,I couldn't agree with you more.Why would some peole choose to be gay & to be opened to ridicule & prejudice.They are born that way.

Time To Make $$$,Very interesting info.Being adopted by gays does not mean that those children will become gay.It is not contagious.

I don't know why there is so much red tape in adopting American children.My wife knows a very wealthy couple who tried to adopt American children about 15 years ago.This couple would have paid almost anything to adopt an American child.But were given such a hard time by the American adoption agencies,that they finally said Fuk it,& went to Korea to adopt two girls.Today,one girl is enrolled in Stanford & the other is enrolled in Boston University.If it wasn't for the BS,maybe two American children could be going to these colleges.
 

JSMOOTH

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speaking of fags....

speaking of fags....

I'll never understand how could a guy get ready to hit the town on a Friday night and say...
"Man, I sure hope to find a nice, hairy ass to bring home with me." :shrug:

Hello there,
You say you have facts....probably do, but I only read the post I got your quote from. You won't get any facts from me, just my opinion, and it's one I'll stand beside. Queers, or same sex couples, have no business adopting kids!

We want our rights, we want our rights.......I'll give ya your rights - 10 % off of vaseline, now get the f*ck back in the closet!
Andrew Dice Clay on gays
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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This politically correct bullshit is sickening.If you want to stop by the morgue for a cold one after work fine,but if I had a family at beach and you'd pull that sick shit in front of my kids,better have your medical ins paid up. It about time the big man from upstairs brings out another flood and starts over again.
Another rant is the wimps on war.Every draftdodger/coward and protester want to bring in there politically correct views and they are not entitled to them.
You could stop terrosist bombing in a month as well as straighten out the muslims.
When a suicide bomber hits,wipe out his entire family,the next with think twice,plus no family to collect rewards from terrorist groups. If they kill one of ours execute 10 of theirs,if they drag our bodys through the streets,remove that town from face of the earth. After a while the good Muslems would police their own.
 

MadJack

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If it wasn't for the BS,maybe two American children could be going to these colleges

they are american, aren't they ;)





just messin with ya :D
 

fatdaddycool

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My Dear Young Grasshopper Senor Capper,
First of all let me say thank you for wasting my time. Also, thank you for referring to Felonious Monk and I as queers. (See thread of Nolan Dolla's interview...towards the end) Also thank you for re assuring me as to the health of this country's mental health program....you are by far the smartest individual I have ever had the displeasure to hear from...oh by the way
Do I have to spell it out for you ?
please don't spell it out for me as.....
Here ya AR182.....
you have already shown that even the most rudimentary words give you problems....try again H...E...A....R means you can understand audible sound whereas H...E....R...E...defines a point in space. so very quickly I will give you a rundown of my position.....I didn't say anything about a gay lifestyle being acceptable or unacceptable. I am not in a position to make that call, I am a mere human without any lawmaking abilities, but I do have the ability to reason and make sound judgement in my words and actions ...for instance........in my judgement, I don't think you agree with me or care for me much at all.....Now you see how that works? That is sound judgement. Whereas
Damn I'm gone for a few weeks and look what the cats drag in.
Guess I have to add a few more losers to my ignore list. Steers & Queers...... more of the latter.
is you opening your mouth in a discussion you had nothing to do with and attacking my character and moral makeup...that my friend is poor judgement. More like jumping to conclusions if you ask me....You see Senor, may I call you Senor? I am not gay nor is my soon to be ex-wife. My daughter is not adopted, and was born to me and my first wife, she is not gay either. I am pretty sure none of us are Steers either?! Which leaves me with the only reason left for your discriminations is that you must be the queer in which you speak of.

Tbone,
Of course you can post anything anytime but it will also be open to recourse...when you state that "that is a proven fact" I will call you on it everytime, thats all.:D
 

redsfann

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I have read some seriously stupid chit on this forum over the years, but this line from Dogs that Bark has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever read.

A direct quote from DTB:
"Another rant is the wimps on war.Every draftdodger/coward and protester want to bring in there politically correct views and they are not entitled to them."

NOT entitled to their opinions? WTF?? We live in AMERICA, pal. In AMERICA, millions upon millions of men and women have given their lives so that we can peacefully express differing opinions on any subject that we choose to. Other than advocating the overthrow of the government we can pretty much say whatever the damn well we please. You may not like what I have to say-- I certainly don't like what you and the rest of the right-wing wackos on this board post on a hourly basis-- but I sure as hell would NEVER, and I mean NEVER-- dispute your right to express your opinion on any topic that you wish to.

The idea that you would think that someone is not intitled to their opinion this close to Memorial Day scares the hell out of me.


Are you interested in living in a totalitarian state, DTB? If so, there are several places in the world where disscenting opinions are met with imprisonment or even death. Lucky for you, The United States of America is not one of those places.
 

Hoops

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Have we reached the Age of Enlightenment yet? I thought that was a few centuries ago, apparently not.

For those who believe sexual orientation is a choice, do some research on the hypothalamus and the role it plays in one's sexual urges and orientation.
 

JSMOOTH

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Hoops said:


For those who believe sexual orientation is a choice, do some research on the hypothalamus and the role it plays in one's sexual urges and orientation.

IMO - it is a choice. I could do all the research I want on the subject and it won't mean a hill of beans to me. Just like any other subject....I'm sure I could research some other scientist and find that he/she differs from the findings of "born that way".
 

Hoops

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JSmooth- Did you get to choose the color of hair you were born with. Or how many fingers or toes?

Of course you are entitled to your opinion.

And of course there are those with opinions such as thinking Ryan Leaf is a better quarterback than Peyton Manning. It's all relative I suppose.
 

SixFive

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Redsfan, I guess the "red" in your nickname does not refer to the Cincy reds, huh? The way u make everything into a right wing conspiracy makes me believe u have a little Ruskie in you.

I think DTB made some good points and I'm sure he's referring to people spouting off about war that are the same folks who were dodging that draft or paying their way out of it back in the 60s like your boy Wm Jefferson Clinton. I guess they can say whatever they want, but they sure didn't earn that priviledge, nor are they entitled to their bs. They are lucky they live in America and can get away with it without fear of repercussion.

When you've been there and done that like DTB has, u might understand some of the views he has. Maybe if you had seen all the meritorious citations, purple heart, bronze stars, silver star, and the plethora of other things he earned like I have u wouldn't be having diarrhea of the mouth.:nono: Nobody here knows about patriotism and giving it up for America more than he does even if it was for "left wing wackos" like yourself who were at home burning flags.
 

fatdaddycool

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Six five-Very noble of you to stick up for your friend, but I don't think he ever stated any of those things in his post therefore no real way for Reddsfann to know that......I don't think it would have changed his opinion however because it hasn't changed mine. You can only interpret what you read and what I read is the same thing that redssfan read and I took away the same feeling.....It does sound radical and angry, I however just skipped over it. But posters are generally replied to based on the subject matter of their post, not their War careers or Civility to man as obviously there is no way to know these things. What Dtb wrote sounded stupid to me too!.....Sorry, but don't jump on Redds I don't think he was saying he was not a patriot, or what the hell maybe he was what do I know.......still sounded silly to me
 

JT

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Here is one way you hillbilly ignorant rednecks can accept fags. It just means more straight women for you. My brother when he moved to San Francisco had a much easier time getting a woman then he did in Ventura County. GET OVER IT.
 
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