So if they allow same sex marriages are they still required to have an aids test? or would this be discrimination?
Gay & Gay How Long?
- Thread starter djv
- Start date
By MIKE MORRIS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/25/04
The Druid Hills Golf Club on Wednesday agreed to enter mediation to resolve a dispute with two gay club members who are seeking spousal benefits for their partners.
Earlier this month, Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin asked club officials to try to reach a compromise with members Lee Kyser and Randy New, who filed a complaint last July with the Atlanta Human Relations Commission.
The commission ruled in January that the 1,100-member club violates the city's anti-discrimination law.
"We want to resolve this issue and thank Mayor Franklin for recommending mediation as the process to do so," club president T. Kent Smith said in a statement.
"We hope that mediation will resolve the issue in a manner acceptable to both parties," Smith said.
The club's board has argued that it accepts gay members, but only extends spousal benefits to legally married couples. Those benefits include allowing the spouses to visit the club without the members being present and to bring guests of their own.
Georgia law forbids gay marriage, but Atlanta allows gays to register with the city as partners. The commission found that the club violated the city's ordinance by not treating the partners of Kyser, a lesbian, and New, a gay man, as spouses.
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The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/25/04
The Druid Hills Golf Club on Wednesday agreed to enter mediation to resolve a dispute with two gay club members who are seeking spousal benefits for their partners.
Earlier this month, Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin asked club officials to try to reach a compromise with members Lee Kyser and Randy New, who filed a complaint last July with the Atlanta Human Relations Commission.
The commission ruled in January that the 1,100-member club violates the city's anti-discrimination law.
"We want to resolve this issue and thank Mayor Franklin for recommending mediation as the process to do so," club president T. Kent Smith said in a statement.
"We hope that mediation will resolve the issue in a manner acceptable to both parties," Smith said.
The club's board has argued that it accepts gay members, but only extends spousal benefits to legally married couples. Those benefits include allowing the spouses to visit the club without the members being present and to bring guests of their own.
Georgia law forbids gay marriage, but Atlanta allows gays to register with the city as partners. The commission found that the club violated the city's ordinance by not treating the partners of Kyser, a lesbian, and New, a gay man, as spouses.
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ocelot said:
Yes Sir, let'em have at "IT" all they want, BUT these twisted SOBs better stop trying to ingrain the lifestyle as being normal in my little girls head with all these classes like "johnny has 2 mommys" and "patty has 2 daddys ":: You should see the GARBAGE being taught in the schools here in Madison:: I guarantee my little girl will be going to private school, I just feel sorry for the parents that feel the same but do not have the $$ to send their kids to a private school where they actually teach things like mathematics and English .
Pro I agree no need to teach it in grade school. Folks can find out as they always have. Just as kids have to deal with the divorce issue. They have to live with it and that will do the teaching. The lessons of live can be a bitch. Forsure when one young parent dies.
Neverteasit you can ask for the aids test if you want anyone can. I thought about it many times during the blood crises of late 80's. No im not gay but worried about that blood. Because I needed a unit in 89. I also had to travel for my company to some aids hot spots like Thialand.
As far as someones comments seeing to men kiss. I see that all the time. Even in my little town. And forsure when in Europe and the Far East. Very natural. But it does not mean there all gay. Hugs and pats on th butt are getting more common to.
I just think this belongs someplace else other then in politics. Let the states handle it. I want less government on my life overall then more.
Neverteasit you can ask for the aids test if you want anyone can. I thought about it many times during the blood crises of late 80's. No im not gay but worried about that blood. Because I needed a unit in 89. I also had to travel for my company to some aids hot spots like Thialand.
As far as someones comments seeing to men kiss. I see that all the time. Even in my little town. And forsure when in Europe and the Far East. Very natural. But it does not mean there all gay. Hugs and pats on th butt are getting more common to.
I just think this belongs someplace else other then in politics. Let the states handle it. I want less government on my life overall then more.
no djv you missed my point. don't some states require you to take an aids test before they give you a marriage license.
Good question I have no idea. Im not sure if all states even make you take a general blood test. Very good question. Doc may know.
I really don't want to offend anyone here, but from an outsider's point of view it's very hard to comprehend just how 'up-tight', conservative but yet hypocritical most American's appear to be.
So two people of the same sex in love offends you? You then think you have the right to stop people doing what the want because it offends you?
You can bet all you like that folks with their conservative views are the same people sitting at home at night in their middle class suburbs getting their jollies from watching 'good natured' show like Sex and the City, Ally McBeal, Will and Grace and the like.
It's not too much of a stretch to relate this to the SuperBowl 'fiasco'!! About 70% of 'block-buster' movies released have a gratuatious tit shot or pointless sex scene and your average Joe/Joelene lap it up. But one nipple shot for 2-3 seconds in the SB and the country comes to a stand still!!
I definately don't want to be seen as disparaging your country or it's views, but the Land of the Free?? I think that's a bit of a stretch.
So two people of the same sex in love offends you? You then think you have the right to stop people doing what the want because it offends you?
You can bet all you like that folks with their conservative views are the same people sitting at home at night in their middle class suburbs getting their jollies from watching 'good natured' show like Sex and the City, Ally McBeal, Will and Grace and the like.
It's not too much of a stretch to relate this to the SuperBowl 'fiasco'!! About 70% of 'block-buster' movies released have a gratuatious tit shot or pointless sex scene and your average Joe/Joelene lap it up. But one nipple shot for 2-3 seconds in the SB and the country comes to a stand still!!
I definately don't want to be seen as disparaging your country or it's views, but the Land of the Free?? I think that's a bit of a stretch.
Oh, and this? Yes, robbing a bank is 'immoral', but that has nothing to do with the argument here.
Laws are in place to protect people. To protect them from having their money stolen. To protect them from getting shot/beaten up....To protect the safety and well-being of citizens.
What exactly does anti-gay marriage laws protect you from? The illusion that Mr and Mrs Middle-class American with their house in the 'burbs and their 2.3 kids is the world you live in?
MrChristo said:
Actually........that is the world quite a few of us chose to live in.
We used to live in a country where the majority ruled. Over the last 30 years, that has slowly changed. Now, anyone who cries "foul", gets their voice heard above the masses.
The fact lost on a lot of people is that most people are offended by this! Right or wrong......that's how it is. But, their majority opinion is not a factor anymore.
Personally, I couldn't care less if the Rainbow Warriors get to marry, but the fact remains........it is a union of "one man, and one woman".
Times change, and the country changes, too. The USA won't fall off the map because some cok suckers and ditch lickers "tied the knot". It will be a little like the Civil Rights movement, eventually. The government will force the issue, but those who are truly opposed will still have their name callings and lynchings.
Oh......one more thing. Laws aren't all about "protecting us". They are about "ethics and behavior", and I believe some might argue that homosexuality clouds both of those lines.
yyz said:
Times do change....that's why women now have the right to vote, slavery was abolished, etc....morals, laws, ethics all evolve as the human race does. If they and we didn't, we would still be stuck with Draconian laws or living under tenth century views of the world. If it wasn't for change and for the 'majority' (and I don't think that is a compliment to call yourself in the majority) learning to accept different views over time, we would be in a much worse situation than we are now.
Ethics/morals are as subjective a subject as there is! My morals may differ greatly from your morals, which may differ greatly from anyone else you might care to mention!
There are no right/wrong morals. Morals are simply how you feel about things you have done.
Would you sleep with your girlfriends sister? Against the law is it? No. But most people would find it morally/ethically wrong.
Alternatively, getting pulled over and given a ticket for doing a few miles over the speed limit....Why? Because of your speed you are endangering other peoples (and your own) safety.
Illegal? Yes.
Immoral? Hardly.
Laws aren't about behaviour, they dictate it. Big difference.
So while you talk about ever declining morals, your middle America (And world, don't just think I'm pinning this all on the US here!) are having affairs with their secretaries, skimming the odd dollar/perk from their jobs and doing whatever it takes to climb the corperate/social ladder.
Damn those people of the same sex being in love.
Would be nice to get rid of all those pesky little minorities wouldn't it. Sweeping them under the carpet would no doubt help a lot of people sleep better at night.
Hoops said:
You are right. What I'm saying is that in a few years this will be accepted, much like the other things you mentioned. But don't confuse "learning to accept different views over time", with "being forced to accept different views over time".
Some people will ALWAYS find homosexuality wrong, immoral, disgusting, etc.
There just is no such thing as common sense anymore.
While I believe gays were at one time unjustly bashed and was glad to see laws passed to protect them--"live and let live"
---the fact remains it is NOT natural and many in society see it that way.--and the lefts agenda's to flaunt the issue will in my opinion set back their cause,rather than promote it and I have seen several leaders of gay community say the same thing.
---getting back to common sense on such issues---
While I have no objection saying the F word on a errant golf shot among friends does that entitle me to say it in a restaurant in front of women and children??--because the right to say it!!!
---and on the constitution--I guess since it says we have the right to bear arms the liberals would have no objection if mayors in each city said it was fine for everyone to pack one--
While I believe gays were at one time unjustly bashed and was glad to see laws passed to protect them--"live and let live"
---the fact remains it is NOT natural and many in society see it that way.--and the lefts agenda's to flaunt the issue will in my opinion set back their cause,rather than promote it and I have seen several leaders of gay community say the same thing.
---getting back to common sense on such issues---
While I have no objection saying the F word on a errant golf shot among friends does that entitle me to say it in a restaurant in front of women and children??--because the right to say it!!!
---and on the constitution--I guess since it says we have the right to bear arms the liberals would have no objection if mayors in each city said it was fine for everyone to pack one--
Couldn't the "right to bear arms", being that it says arms and not firearms, simply mean that allowing people to have steakknives is complying with the amendment? I mean, if you have a knife, you are armed, right?
As for the "not natural" argument... What, exactly, isn't natural about it? I talked with a friend who is quite opposed to gay marriage about this just a few days ago... He told me they shouldn't be allowed because gay sex isn't natural or normal and the "way things were meant to be." So I asked him,
"What, exactly, is unnatural about it?"
He responds, "Men and women can create children. That's what is natural. This two-guy thing is fvcking sick, twisted shit."
So I ask him, "Have you ever had a chick give you a blow job?" To which he says that of course he has.
My response was, "You are fvcking sick, twisted shit. That's not natural. I mean, you can't make a child that way!!!"
Same thing could be said for beating off. That's my point. Sex is a pleasure thing. Don't give me that "natural" bullshit. If a guy gets off putting it in another guy's ass, so be it. The only way I'll respect that argument is if it comes from a guy who, the only time he ever ejaculates, is when he is with a woman attempting to conceive a child. Otherwise, oral sex and masturbation is no less unnatural than homosexual sex.
As for the "not natural" argument... What, exactly, isn't natural about it? I talked with a friend who is quite opposed to gay marriage about this just a few days ago... He told me they shouldn't be allowed because gay sex isn't natural or normal and the "way things were meant to be." So I asked him,
"What, exactly, is unnatural about it?"
He responds, "Men and women can create children. That's what is natural. This two-guy thing is fvcking sick, twisted shit."
So I ask him, "Have you ever had a chick give you a blow job?" To which he says that of course he has.
My response was, "You are fvcking sick, twisted shit. That's not natural. I mean, you can't make a child that way!!!"
Same thing could be said for beating off. That's my point. Sex is a pleasure thing. Don't give me that "natural" bullshit. If a guy gets off putting it in another guy's ass, so be it. The only way I'll respect that argument is if it comes from a guy who, the only time he ever ejaculates, is when he is with a woman attempting to conceive a child. Otherwise, oral sex and masturbation is no less unnatural than homosexual sex.
Just to add onto my last thought... the same could be said of anal sex with a girl, or any sort of intercourse involving condoms, the girl being on birth control, etc.
Definately 100% have to agree with that.
The fact is that NO issue is ever black and white, and you'll always have 'radicals' from either side trying to push the boundaries, when in reality the 'answer' is always somewhere in the middle.
No matter how much ground is gained on either side, it will never be seen as enough.
Personally though, I can never accept the 'it's not natural' line.
How far do you break it down, and what then, is natural?
If I presume you're talking about sex, then surely it is only 'natural' to have sex to procreate? No form of contraceptive I know of is 'natural'! (Well, ok. One! But do you see any animals do that??
) **Like it or not (The idea, not the act!), sex is, and has always been as much, if not more, about recreation than procreation for humans. So every time you have sex but use a condom/diaphram or your GF/wife is on the pill, then how exactly is that 'natural'?
Oral sex? Surely by defination not natural.
What about sexual fetishes? Bondage, S&M, what-ever? If it's a man and a woman it's fine, but being strapped to a barbed-wire bed with pegs on your nipples and wearing a gas-mask is about the furthest thing from natural I can think of!!
** The only other species to have sex for 'fun' (that I'm aware) are the other primates. Baboons/monkeys/apes/chimps etc....And, interstingly enough, they DO participate in homosexual activities.
I do understand where you're coming from here, but seeing 2 blokes kissing/holding hands in that same restaurant isn't so much offensive as it is shocking? (Shocking in the sense that it's rarely seen, not shocking = terrible/disgusting.)
This notion of 'protecting' children from seeing such evils is surely a bit over the top? Do you think that by seeing 2 people of the same sex being affectionate that your children will somehow be 'converted'??
It doesn't worry or affect me in any way at all, but as I hit on before, the massive hypocrasy of it all astounds me.
The same people bent on shielding their children from the horroribly scarring experience of seeing 2 males holding hands in the street quite happily sit home watching it on mainstream tv (Buffy, Friends, Sex and the City, Ally McBeal), big budget movies (Wild Things, Dr. T and the Woman and countless others), and listen to Melissa Etheridge, Faith No More and Madonna just to name a few!
And those who go to the Theatre, well......
EDIT: bjfinste, we must have posted at the same time. Your post wasn't there when I started.
Just incase anyone thinks I 'borrowed' the 'natural' arguement, I didn't.
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