Halladay to Phillies/Lee to Mariners/Lackey to Red Sox

[Glenn Quagmire]

The thing about JZ is that he is going for wins without sacrificing the future. Before the moves this offseason the M's were really an 81 win team. I think they are now in the 88 win area. That puts them in the area of an AL West title this year.

You have to look at the Bedard deal as the deal that got Bavasi fired. After that deal I rooted against the M's EVERY game until that fucking moron was fired. I lit up the Scout M's board with anger. If you think I went off on the guys in the politics forum here, you haven't seen anything. Even though it cost us Jones and Tillman, it was worth it.

I'll have to take your word for the politics forum; I never set foot in there. I learned a long time ago I'm not changing anyone's mind when it comes to politics, and they sure as hell won't change mine, and half the time it just ends in arguments, so yeah, not for me.

But you're probably right about Bavasi and the Bedard deal. There were so many bad ones though, I don't know which one actually sunk him. The Silva contract was inexplicable, too. Don't forget Spiezio, Offerman, Aurilia, Soriano for Horacio Ramirez, etc. The guy was in a league of his own when it comes to ineptitude.

And I hope you're right about JZ not sacrificing the future. I like what he's done so far, but I'd also like him to stop trading prospects. As much as I love Cliff Lee, I think that deal will ultimately come down to how well the 2 first round draft picks we get for him pan out (as well as the prospects we traded). I don't think we have much chance of extending him, and as good as he is, I don't think he's bringing a WS to Seattle next year. Not trying to criticize JZ at all, he's done a great job, I just worry about trading too many prospects.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

I'll have to take your word for the politics forum; I never set foot in there. I learned a long time ago I'm not changing anyone's mind when it comes to politics, and they sure as hell won't change mine, and half the time it just ends in arguments, so yeah, not for me.

But you're probably right about Bavasi and the Bedard deal. There were so many bad ones though, I don't know which one actually sunk him. The Silva contract was inexplicable, too. Don't forget Spiezio, Offerman, Aurilia, Soriano for Horacio Ramirez, etc. The guy was in a league of his own when it comes to ineptitude.

And I hope you're right about JZ not sacrificing the future. I like what he's done so far, but I'd also like him to stop trading prospects. As much as I love Cliff Lee, I think that deal will ultimately come down to how well the 2 first round draft picks we get for him pan out (as well as the prospects we traded). I don't think we have much chance of extending him, and as good as he is, I don't think he's bringing a WS to Seattle next year. Not trying to criticize JZ at all, he's done a great job, I just worry about trading too many prospects.

Well JZ has done great over the years in the draft. Even if these picks bomb thats okay. All draft picks won't pan out. The more you have the better odds you will have. As for trading prospects, you have to do it sometimes. The bottom line is that we gave up three minor prospects for a year of Lee at a MAJOR discount and we'll get two first round picks back. Aumont is a reliever. Gilies is deaf and a 4th outfielder at best. I didn't want to give up Ramirez but he is not a mega-prospect. Jones was a mega-prospect. A sure fire all-star. Bavasi gave up 6 years of Jones. That still burns. Plus Tillman really dominated AA after that deal. Painful. Simply painful. He dominated AA and he was the youngest SP in the league.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

One more thing. I am all for keeping prospects. I'm not very high on trading away young talent, but lets face it. The M's system is not deep. Only Ackley is a sure fire all-star and he can't be dealt until next fall. I would not be surprised if Saunders is dealt. His ceiling is not very high and i'm not sure he is ready. Triunfel is interesting. He could be special, but there is still doubts about how old he really is. I was really surprised that moron Bavasi hadn't already dealt Triunfel when his value was higher.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

No, you're right. He's doing a great job so far. I didn't mean to imply he wasn't. You kind of touched on my only concern though -- the fact that we have very few good prospects in the system. The "win now" philosophy worries me for that reason alone. I don't want Z, or anyone else for that matter, getting crazy and unloading all of our best prospects in one year just to try and get a ring in a year when the odds of us doing that are slim and none. I know that's an unlikely scenario and Z is probably too smart to do that, but there has been a lot of talk about him wanting to clean house with the Bavasi guys and start over with his own. Sure, Bavasi was horrible, but I don't necessarily believe that we have to get rid of anyone with any kind of a tie to him.

IMO, Saunders will start the year in AAA. I think that was the point of bringing in Bradley. He will probably DH a lot, but he can also play left. And when Bradley isn't in there, Hall and Langerhans can play left as well. And, God forbid, Griffey could play the field if he had to.

I think we still need another SP and at least one big bat (but 2 would be a lot better), so we'll see what he has up his sleeve. Should be interesting.

And as far as Lee goes, I've always been one of his biggest fans. It's great to have him in the fold, especially at a discount, but like I said before, I don't think he is enough to win us a WS. So for the most part, having Lee here next year is mostly just for entertainment value. If he had 3 or 4 years on his deal it would be a much different story, but as it stands now he looks like a very good rent-a-player. Not saying I'm not excited that he's here, just that in the long run, the Lee deal was mostly a swap of prospects.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

No, you're right. He's doing a great job so far. I didn't mean to imply he wasn't. You kind of touched on my only concern though -- the fact that we have very few good prospects in the system. The "win now" philosophy worries me for that reason alone. I don't want Z, or anyone else for that matter, getting crazy and unloading all of our best prospects in one year just to try and get a ring in a year when the odds of us doing that are slim and none. I know that's an unlikely scenario and Z is probably too smart to do that, but there has been a lot of talk about him wanting to clean house with the Bavasi guys and start over with his own. Sure, Bavasi was horrible, but I don't necessarily believe that we have to get rid of anyone with any kind of a tie to him.

IMO, Saunders will start the year in AAA. I think that was the point of bringing in Bradley. He will probably DH a lot, but he can also play left. And when Bradley isn't in there, Hall and Langerhans can play left as well. And, God forbid, Griffey could play the field if he had to.

I think we still need another SP and at least one big bat (but 2 would be a lot better), so we'll see what he has up his sleeve. Should be interesting.

And as far as Lee goes, I've always been one of his biggest fans. It's great to have him in the fold, especially at a discount, but like I said before, I don't think he is enough to win us a WS. So for the most part, having Lee here next year is mostly just for entertainment value. If he had 3 or 4 years on his deal it would be a much different story, but as it stands now he looks like a very good rent-a-player. Not saying I'm not excited that he's here, just that in the long run, the Lee deal was mostly a swap of prospects.

I was the first guy who thought the 07' Mariners had no shot, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their chances this year. A run prevented is just as good as a run scored. With one more good move this team will be in the discussion for a title.

I see your point about not dealing the prospects, but the bottom line is the M's don't have quality prospects. So I don't care if they deal those guys. Triunfel I don't want dealt, but everyone else I don't care. As long as JZ gets return its all fair game. There are more moves to come. We will see when the offseason is over.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I hope you're right about the M's chances. I think being a lifelong M's fan has conditioned me to be an eternal pessimist.

I tend to agree about the prospects. It's not that I think every prospect is untouchable, I would just like to see the best guys kept around. I don't want to see Triunfel, Ackley (who can't even be dealt yet), or Saunders dealt. With Saunders, it's more a matter of not wanting him dealt because his trade value has to be incredibly low due to not playing well in the bigs last year. Saunders is another guy M's fan probably overvalue. I look at trading Saunders now the same way I looked at trading Morrow when they did. They would be trading a guy at almost his floor, which I'm never really a fan of.

I agree that one or two more big moves would help our chances. I really wanted to see them sign Duch for the 3 spot in the rotation. $5.5 a year is peanuts for what that guy can give you. I would also really like to see Sheets get signed, but his asking price is way too high right now (8 or 9 per I could live with, not 12 though).

On the offensive side, I think Luke Scott would be a big get. Another guy who can give you a lot of production for little cost. We shall see...

 

[giambi]

With one more good move this team will be in the discussion for a title.

:mj07: now that is the funniest shit you have said in this thread you are great!!!!!!

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

:mj07: now that is the funniest shit you have said in this thread you are great!!!!!!

...and who says Yankee fans are just a bunch of dumb cunts? I know. It's crazy.

 

[BigGaycapper]

I told you muffin ass bastards Halladay would dominate, Lee has dominated the DL though :mj07: and Lackey, well he plays for the RedSux!!!!

Phillies rule

 

[shawn555]

I told you muffin ass bastards Halladay would dominate, Lee has dominated the DL though :mj07: and Lackey, well he plays for the RedSux!!!!

Phillies rule

I don't recall anyone questioning you on this, and I think everyone expected it.

The numbers will always improve when you go from the al east to the nl.

Lee has had three solid long starts since he came off the dl, with the insane money they gave to Howard trading Lee to save salary makes even less sense.

 

[BigGaycapper]

You are wrong Shawn. Read the thread, majority said the Phils were the loser of this trade. Lee is done, he wont even get 10 wins this year. Halladay will win the NL Cy Young and the Phils will once again be in the World Series.

Ryan Howard was a steal, by extending his contract now they saved a ton of money down the road. He is the best player in MLB and will be for the next 5-7 years.

 

[shawn555]

You are wrong Shawn. Read the thread, majority said the Phils were the loser of this trade. Lee is done, he wont even get 10 wins this year. Halladay will win the NL Cy Young and the Phils will once again be in the World Series.

Ryan Howard was a steal, by extending his contract now they saved a ton of money down the road. He is the best player in MLB and will be for the next 5-7 years.

The contract in no ways was a steal lol.

Howard at best is a 4 4 1/2 war player. With this contract he is going to have to be a 5.3 or better player to make this contract make sense.

Also he will be 32 when contract starts, so do you think he is going to have six seasons that were better than last years? Thats what its going to take for this contract to be worth it.



And I do not see how Lee is done.

He may not get ten wins but that will be a result of MAriners shitty offense not his pitching.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Ryan Howard was a steal, by extending his contract now they saved a ton of money down the road. He is the best player in MLB and will be for the next 5-7 years.

This shows your lack of knowledge when it comes to baseball. That was not a good deal. You could say he is not in the top 20 right now.

This is not even worth debating. Howard wouldn't even say he is the best player in the game.

 

[BUCSnotYUCKS]

He is the best player in MLB and will be for the next 5-7 years.

One of the dumbest fucking statements ever.

 

[BigGaycapper]

You are all obviously confused, probably Yankee fans, understandable

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

You are all obviously confused, probably Yankee fans, understandable

Please justify your statements. I am still in shock. I hope you don't wager on MLB.

 

[devil dave]

who gives a fvck.

 

[BigGaycapper]

Please justify your statements. I am still in shock. I hope you don't wager on MLB.

Have wagered on MLB for over 10 years now and been very successful doing it. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one and I like to see them, I mean hear them. Well you know what i mean.

The Halladay trade obviously was most beneficial to the Phiillies as I said. The Howard contract will be a bargain if the Phils continue to dominate the NL and Howard continues to produce. Money means nothing to these owners, he was a bargain and the Phils saved themselves a lot of money by extending his contract now rather than letting him test the free agency market and have the Yankmees bring his price up like they do every other superstar.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Have wagered on MLB for over 10 years now and been very successful doing it. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one and I like to see them, I mean hear them. Well you know what i mean.

The Halladay trade obviously was most beneficial to the Phiillies as I said. The Howard contract will be a bargain if the Phils continue to dominate the NL and Howard continues to produce. Money means nothing to these owners, he was a bargain and the Phils saved themselves a lot of money by extending his contract now rather than letting him test the free agency market and have the Yankmees bring his price up like they do every other superstar.

Sorry but he is not worth the money. He can't play defense and he is going to be no where near that value when the contract is over. He isn't even worth the money right now.

 

[giambi]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trampled Underfoot
With one more good move this team will be in the discussion for a title.

now that is the funniest shit you have said in this thread you are great!!!!!!

(I miss this thread) I'm smarter