Now Obama is saying America has to deal with the race issue. These guy is all over the road. Sounds to me days later and this thing is far from subsiding. He's NO different than any other bs'ing politician.
Hussein Obamas' pastor "Blacks should not sing "'God Bless America'"
- Thread starter Tenzing
- Start date
They are playing his recent clips on local radio.
He's really turning into a long winded pompus ass.
Yes...
I'm really starting to dislike him.
He's really turning into a long winded pompus ass.
Yes...
I'm really starting to dislike him.
HOPE (to) CHANGE (the subject). .....YES WE CAN (pull the wool over your eyes)......
/i didn`t want to write this...blame i.o. the instigator...:shrug:
full text (from the instigator lol)
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/848200,speech031808.article
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/848200,speech031808.article
Originally Posted by DOGS THAT BARK
I haven't a clue what your talking about Smurph--
I've never heard of Ted Haggard but would be interested in knowing.
Will be looking forward to any references or video's you must have.
======================
still waiting for reference or video's:0corn
He's accepting and justifying the comments
and of course, it's my fault (or my parents) for the comments and the attitude of all blacks now
Wayne, seriously.
You pull shit from every news outlet in the world, when it suits you, including Al-Jazeera, but you've never heard of Ted Haggard?
If I have time, i'll take 10 seconds and google an article for you.
Last edited:
Here's a quick one - kind of an overview:
http://www.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=159
Excerpts:
George W. Bush's link to Evangelical Right caught in November Surprise
After admitting "some guilt" in accusations of purchasing gay sex and using amphetamines, Ted Haggard, megachurch pastor, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, and adviser to George W. Bush, resigns
Pastor Ted Haggard got a November Surprise: Only a few days before Colorado voters were to head to the polls to vote on two ballot initiatives involving gay marriage, Mike Jones, a former gay escort claimed that he had a three-year sexual relationship with Haggard, the founder and senior leader of the 14,000 member Colorado Springs, Colorado-based New Life Church, the state's largest megachurch. Haggard also served as president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE - website) whose 30-million members come from more than 45,000 churches across America. Over the past few years, Haggard has been a regular advisor to the Bush administration.
Well-connected to the Bush Administration
In conservative evangelical Christian circles, Haggard was one of the rising stars; the heir apparent of folks likes Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Dobson. In 2005, then NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw profiled Haggard in a series on mega-churches. In addition, the pastor was also listed by Time magazine as one of the 25 most influential Evangelicals in America last year.
Haggard is well-connected politically, having often met with President Bush and his staff at the White House. Harper's contributing editor Jeff Sharlet pointed out that "No pastor in America holds more sway over the political direction of evangelicalism than does Pastor Ted."
In a Wall Street Journal story dated August 13, 2004, Haggard told reporter Elizabeth Bernstein that he participates in "a weekly conference call...that's led by Tim Goeglein, the White House's liaison to the conservative community, and includes prominent religious leaders. 'We have direct access,'" Haggard told Bernstein. "I can call [Mr. Goeglein], he'll take my concern to the president and get back to me in 24 hours."
According to Haggard, "The weekly conference call with the White House" allows him to give the administration "the pulse of the evangelical world."
In 2004, Haggard was heavily involved in "trying to boost evangelical voter participation," the Wall Street Journal reported. "On Sept. 19, he co-hosted a two-hour broadcast encouraging viewers to make it to the polls and to call their congressional representatives in support of the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would ban same-sex marriages. The show was carried on three Christian television networks and as many as 1,500 Christian radio stations.
"Meanwhile, Haggard makes no secret of his support of President Bush. Of the three framed pictures hanging outside his office, two are of himself and the president. (The other is of himself and Mel Gibson, who pre-screened "The Passion of Christ" at a conference organized by Mr. Haggard.)"
Church forces out Haggard for 'sexually immoral conduct'
POSTED: 10:24 p.m. EST, November 4, 2006
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (CNN) -- The Rev. Ted Haggard agreed Saturday to resign as leader of the megachurch he started in his basement more than 20 years ago after its independent investigative board said he was guilty of "sexually immoral conduct."
On Friday, Haggard admitted he had received a massage from a Denver man who claimed the prominent pastor had paid him for sex over three years. Haggard also admitted he had bought methamphetamine.
Haggard, in an interview with CNN affiliate KUSA, denied having sex with Mike Jones and said he did not use the drug and threw it away.
After the allegations were made public, Haggard resigned as president of the influential National Association of Evangelicals, an umbrella group representing more than 45,000 churches with 30 million members.
He also temporarily stepped aside as pastor of the 14,000-member New Life Church. (Parishioners stand by Haggard)
But on Saturday overseers of the church recommended he be permanently removed.
"We, the Overseer Board of New Life Church, have concluded our deliberations concerning the moral failings of Pastor Ted Haggard," a statement from the church said.
"Our investigation and Pastor Haggard's public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct."
Haggard, 50, and his wife were informed of the decision, the statement said, and "they have agreed as well that he should be dismissed and that a new pastor for New Life Church should be selected according to the rules of replacement in the bylaws."
The statement said "a letter of explanation and apology" from Haggard and "a word of encouragement" from his wife, Gayle, would be read at Sunday morning services.
The couple has five children.
The church's statement said the investigation would continue to determine the extent of Haggard's misconduct.
The Rev. Ross Parsley will lead the New Life Church until a permanent replacement for Haggard is chosen, something that should happen by the end of the year, the statement said.
"Please continue to pray for Pastor Ted and his family, and let's all continue to stand strong together for the kingdom of God," Parsley's note to church members said. "We will get through this together. Remember, New Life Church has never been a man, a building or anything else -- we are a family."
Although Haggard initially denied even knowing Jones, the pastor admitted on camera Friday to a Denver CNN affiliate that he sought a massage from him. Haggard also admitted buying methamphetamine but said he did not use it.
"I was buying it for me, but I never used it," said Haggard, sitting in the driver's seat of a car with his wife, Gayle, at his side during an impromptu interview with KUSA-TV.
"I never kept it very long because it was wrong. I was tempted. I bought it. But I never used it." Haggard also acknowledged contacting Jones but has denied Jones' accusation that the two men regularly had sex over three years. (Watch how the scandal has quickly unfolded -- 3:35 )
Haggard's admissions resonated among America's evangelicals and Christian leaders.
Haggard was one of a group of religious leaders who regularly participated in conference calls with White House aides, Time magazine reported.
On Friday, the White House sought to downplay Haggard's influence within the administration.
Spokesman Tony Fratto told reporters Friday that it was inaccurate to portray him as being close to the White House, insisting Haggard was only an occasional participant in weekly conference calls between West Wing staff and leading evangelicals.
"He has been on a couple of calls," Fratto said. "He's been to the White House one or two times."
Last year, Time -- citing Haggard's White House access -- put him on its list of the nation's 25 most influential evangelicals. (Time.com article)
Many religious leaders had rallied to the pastor's defense when the allegations broke earlier in the week.
Dobson: He's still my friend
But Focus on the Family founder James Dobson -- who had castigated the media Thursday for reporting Jones' allegations -- issued a statement Friday saying he was "heartsick" upon learning of Haggard's admissions.
"The possibility that an illicit relationship has occurred is alarming to us and to millions of others," Dobson said.
"He will continue to be my friend, even if the worst allegations prove accurate," he continued. "Nevertheless, sexual sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual, has serious consequences."
Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, a Washington-based conservative policy group, said he was "saddened to learn of these allegations of reprehensible behavior."
"In his position as a leader of the evangelical community, this personal tragedy has public ramifications, so we urge that a full accounting of the facts be swift and complete," he said in a statement.
In an interview Friday with CNN, Jones said he went public with his allegations because of Haggard's support for a state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage that is on the ballot next week in Colorado.
"For someone who is up there preaching that marriage should only be between a man and a woman, and he's going behind his wife's back and seeing a gay man for sex -- I felt like I owed it to the gay community to expose the hypocrisy," Jones said.( Watch Jones describe how he and Haggard "hooked up" -- 7:26 )
Unclear polygraph test
Jones' account of events also came under scrutiny Friday after he voluntarily took a polygraph test for Denver's KHOW radio, where he originally made his allegations Wednesday.
The polygraph examiner concluded Jones showed some "deception."
However, the examiner said because Jones was exhausted at the time the test was administered it would need to be redone after he slept and ate to get more reliable results.
Jones told CNN that the part of the test he failed was on the question of whether he and Haggard had sex. "I don't understand why I did fail the part about when they asked me if I had sex with Ted Haggard," he said. "That's the reason he contacted me to begin with." (Watch Jones' take on Haggard's denial -- 1:20)
Haggard told KUSA that he was "grateful that [Jones] failed the polygraph test."
The Denver Police Department issued a statement saying it was "watching this situation unfold" and planned "on reaching out to the involved parties for information on crimes that may have been committed in Denver."
Haggard on Friday said a Denver hotel where he was staying referred him to Jones for a massage, and Jones "told him about" the methamphetamine. (Watch Haggard's response to whether he knows gay men in Denver -- 2:07 )
He did not identify the hotel. Jones told CNN he did not sell methamphetamine to Haggard, but he said he gave Haggard a contact to obtain the drug and saw him use it on multiple occasions. He also said he was "not listed with any concierge" at a Denver hotel.
Asked about Haggard's continued denials of a sexual relationship, Jones noted that Haggard had denied even knowing him until he released voice mails he said he had kept from Haggard.
"The more denial he gives, the messier he looks," Jones said.
An expert hired by KUSA concluded the voice on the messages was probably Haggard, and a more detailed analysis was under way. The pastor admitted Friday that he did call Jones "to buy some meth, but I threw it away." (Watch what Haggard said about the drugs he bought -- 1:59)
Jones has said he met Haggard three years ago when the pastor answered his escort ad, pretending to be a man from Kansas City named "Art." He said their sexual encounters continued monthly until August.
Haggard's middle name is Arthur.
Jones, who has said he no longer works as a prostitute, told CNN he only learned Art's identity several months ago, when he recognized Haggard on TV.
"You can't put yourself in the position he was in and want respect and people to follow your words when you're actually doing the opposite behind their backs," Jones said.
CNN's Delia Gallagher contributed to this report.
POSTED: 10:24 p.m. EST, November 4, 2006
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (CNN) -- The Rev. Ted Haggard agreed Saturday to resign as leader of the megachurch he started in his basement more than 20 years ago after its independent investigative board said he was guilty of "sexually immoral conduct."
On Friday, Haggard admitted he had received a massage from a Denver man who claimed the prominent pastor had paid him for sex over three years. Haggard also admitted he had bought methamphetamine.
Haggard, in an interview with CNN affiliate KUSA, denied having sex with Mike Jones and said he did not use the drug and threw it away.
After the allegations were made public, Haggard resigned as president of the influential National Association of Evangelicals, an umbrella group representing more than 45,000 churches with 30 million members.
He also temporarily stepped aside as pastor of the 14,000-member New Life Church. (Parishioners stand by Haggard)
But on Saturday overseers of the church recommended he be permanently removed.
"We, the Overseer Board of New Life Church, have concluded our deliberations concerning the moral failings of Pastor Ted Haggard," a statement from the church said.
"Our investigation and Pastor Haggard's public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct."
Haggard, 50, and his wife were informed of the decision, the statement said, and "they have agreed as well that he should be dismissed and that a new pastor for New Life Church should be selected according to the rules of replacement in the bylaws."
The statement said "a letter of explanation and apology" from Haggard and "a word of encouragement" from his wife, Gayle, would be read at Sunday morning services.
The couple has five children.
The church's statement said the investigation would continue to determine the extent of Haggard's misconduct.
The Rev. Ross Parsley will lead the New Life Church until a permanent replacement for Haggard is chosen, something that should happen by the end of the year, the statement said.
"Please continue to pray for Pastor Ted and his family, and let's all continue to stand strong together for the kingdom of God," Parsley's note to church members said. "We will get through this together. Remember, New Life Church has never been a man, a building or anything else -- we are a family."
Although Haggard initially denied even knowing Jones, the pastor admitted on camera Friday to a Denver CNN affiliate that he sought a massage from him. Haggard also admitted buying methamphetamine but said he did not use it.
"I was buying it for me, but I never used it," said Haggard, sitting in the driver's seat of a car with his wife, Gayle, at his side during an impromptu interview with KUSA-TV.
"I never kept it very long because it was wrong. I was tempted. I bought it. But I never used it." Haggard also acknowledged contacting Jones but has denied Jones' accusation that the two men regularly had sex over three years. (Watch how the scandal has quickly unfolded -- 3:35 )
Haggard's admissions resonated among America's evangelicals and Christian leaders.
Haggard was one of a group of religious leaders who regularly participated in conference calls with White House aides, Time magazine reported.
On Friday, the White House sought to downplay Haggard's influence within the administration.
Spokesman Tony Fratto told reporters Friday that it was inaccurate to portray him as being close to the White House, insisting Haggard was only an occasional participant in weekly conference calls between West Wing staff and leading evangelicals.
"He has been on a couple of calls," Fratto said. "He's been to the White House one or two times."
Last year, Time -- citing Haggard's White House access -- put him on its list of the nation's 25 most influential evangelicals. (Time.com article)
Many religious leaders had rallied to the pastor's defense when the allegations broke earlier in the week.
Dobson: He's still my friend
But Focus on the Family founder James Dobson -- who had castigated the media Thursday for reporting Jones' allegations -- issued a statement Friday saying he was "heartsick" upon learning of Haggard's admissions.
"The possibility that an illicit relationship has occurred is alarming to us and to millions of others," Dobson said.
"He will continue to be my friend, even if the worst allegations prove accurate," he continued. "Nevertheless, sexual sin, whether homosexual or heterosexual, has serious consequences."
Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, a Washington-based conservative policy group, said he was "saddened to learn of these allegations of reprehensible behavior."
"In his position as a leader of the evangelical community, this personal tragedy has public ramifications, so we urge that a full accounting of the facts be swift and complete," he said in a statement.
In an interview Friday with CNN, Jones said he went public with his allegations because of Haggard's support for a state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage that is on the ballot next week in Colorado.
"For someone who is up there preaching that marriage should only be between a man and a woman, and he's going behind his wife's back and seeing a gay man for sex -- I felt like I owed it to the gay community to expose the hypocrisy," Jones said.( Watch Jones describe how he and Haggard "hooked up" -- 7:26 )
Unclear polygraph test
Jones' account of events also came under scrutiny Friday after he voluntarily took a polygraph test for Denver's KHOW radio, where he originally made his allegations Wednesday.
The polygraph examiner concluded Jones showed some "deception."
However, the examiner said because Jones was exhausted at the time the test was administered it would need to be redone after he slept and ate to get more reliable results.
Jones told CNN that the part of the test he failed was on the question of whether he and Haggard had sex. "I don't understand why I did fail the part about when they asked me if I had sex with Ted Haggard," he said. "That's the reason he contacted me to begin with." (Watch Jones' take on Haggard's denial -- 1:20)
Haggard told KUSA that he was "grateful that [Jones] failed the polygraph test."
The Denver Police Department issued a statement saying it was "watching this situation unfold" and planned "on reaching out to the involved parties for information on crimes that may have been committed in Denver."
Haggard on Friday said a Denver hotel where he was staying referred him to Jones for a massage, and Jones "told him about" the methamphetamine. (Watch Haggard's response to whether he knows gay men in Denver -- 2:07 )
He did not identify the hotel. Jones told CNN he did not sell methamphetamine to Haggard, but he said he gave Haggard a contact to obtain the drug and saw him use it on multiple occasions. He also said he was "not listed with any concierge" at a Denver hotel.
Asked about Haggard's continued denials of a sexual relationship, Jones noted that Haggard had denied even knowing him until he released voice mails he said he had kept from Haggard.
"The more denial he gives, the messier he looks," Jones said.
An expert hired by KUSA concluded the voice on the messages was probably Haggard, and a more detailed analysis was under way. The pastor admitted Friday that he did call Jones "to buy some meth, but I threw it away." (Watch what Haggard said about the drugs he bought -- 1:59)
Jones has said he met Haggard three years ago when the pastor answered his escort ad, pretending to be a man from Kansas City named "Art." He said their sexual encounters continued monthly until August.
Haggard's middle name is Arthur.
Jones, who has said he no longer works as a prostitute, told CNN he only learned Art's identity several months ago, when he recognized Haggard on TV.
"You can't put yourself in the position he was in and want respect and people to follow your words when you're actually doing the opposite behind their backs," Jones said.
CNN's Delia Gallagher contributed to this report.
By Eric Gorski
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 12/24/2007 09:09:01 AM MST
Pastor's case stirs debateThe Rev. Ted Haggard emerged from three weeks of intensive counseling convinced he is "completely heterosexual" and told an oversight board that his sexual contact with men was limited to his accuser.
That is according to one of the disgraced pastor's overseers, who on Monday revealed new details about where Haggard has been and where he is headed.
The Rev. Tim Ralph of Larkspur also said the four-man oversight board strongly urged Haggard to go into secular work instead of Christian ministry if Haggard and his wife follow through on plans to earn master's degrees in psychology.
Haggard broke a three-month silence in e-mails over the weekend to select members of his former church. New Life Church interim senior pastor Ross Parsley forwarded Haggard's message to the wider church body Monday.
In the message, Haggard revealed that he and his wife, Gayle, intend to leave Colorado Springs and pursue master's degrees through online courses.
Haggard mentioned Missouri and Iowa as possible destinations. Another oversight board member, the Rev. Mike Ware of Westminster, said the group recommended the move out of town, and the Haggards agreed.
"This is a good place for Ted," Ware said. "It's hard to heal in Colorado Springs right now. It's like an open wound. He needs to get somewhere he can get the wound healed."
Sex-addiction program
Haggard, 50, resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and was fired from the church he built from nothing into a 14,000-member congregation after a former male prostitute in Denver alleged a three-year cash-for-sex relationship.
Haggard admitted to "sexual immorality" and a long battle against feelings contrary to his beliefs. He admitted buying methamphetamine but said he never used it. Haggard did not respond to interview requests.
Among other things, the overseers urged Haggard to enter a 12-step
Ted Haggard was fired for "sexual immorality." The church had no clear succession plan. program for sexual addiction, Ware said.
Ralph said three weeks of counseling at an undisclosed Arizona treatment center helped Haggard immensely and left Haggard sure of one thing.
"He is completely heterosexual," Ralph said. "That is something he discovered. It was the acting- out situations where things took place. It wasn't a constant thing."
Why Haggard chose to act out in that manner is something Haggard and his advisers are trying to discern, Ralph said.
In investigating Haggard's assertion that his extramarital sexual contact was limited to former male escort Mike Jones, the board talked to people close to Haggard and found no evidence contradicting him, Ralph said.
"If we're going to be proved wrong, somebody else is going to come forward, and that usually happens really quickly," he said. "We're into this thing over 90 days, and it hasn't happened."
Steering Haggard away from a return to ministry was based, in part, on Haggard's high profile, Ralph said. He cited biblical passages about holding influential figures to a higher standard.
"Nobody is saying he can't go back into ministry," Ralph said. "Somewhere down the road, that could very well happen, and that would be wonderful."
Counseling continues
Haggard is being asked to join a church wherever the couple moves and continue the Christian counseling he receives twice a week, Ralph said.
The oversight board that includes Ralph is focusing on New Life Church's future but continues to counsel Haggard.
What has been termed Haggard's "restoration" is being overseen by another panel: H.B. London, who runs a Focus on the Family ministry to pastors, and megachurch pastors Tommy Barnett and Jack Hayford.
London said he was not surprised Haggard was considering the psychological field.
"Many of us that go into the healing, helping professions do so out of some sort of dysfunction or traumatic event in our lives, and we want to do what we can to help other people avoid what we've gone through," he said. "He is certainly gifted and intelligent and has an intuitive side to him. And he has life experience. Those are good credentials."
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 12/24/2007 09:09:01 AM MST
Pastor's case stirs debateThe Rev. Ted Haggard emerged from three weeks of intensive counseling convinced he is "completely heterosexual" and told an oversight board that his sexual contact with men was limited to his accuser.
That is according to one of the disgraced pastor's overseers, who on Monday revealed new details about where Haggard has been and where he is headed.
The Rev. Tim Ralph of Larkspur also said the four-man oversight board strongly urged Haggard to go into secular work instead of Christian ministry if Haggard and his wife follow through on plans to earn master's degrees in psychology.
Haggard broke a three-month silence in e-mails over the weekend to select members of his former church. New Life Church interim senior pastor Ross Parsley forwarded Haggard's message to the wider church body Monday.
In the message, Haggard revealed that he and his wife, Gayle, intend to leave Colorado Springs and pursue master's degrees through online courses.
Haggard mentioned Missouri and Iowa as possible destinations. Another oversight board member, the Rev. Mike Ware of Westminster, said the group recommended the move out of town, and the Haggards agreed.
"This is a good place for Ted," Ware said. "It's hard to heal in Colorado Springs right now. It's like an open wound. He needs to get somewhere he can get the wound healed."
Sex-addiction program
Haggard, 50, resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and was fired from the church he built from nothing into a 14,000-member congregation after a former male prostitute in Denver alleged a three-year cash-for-sex relationship.
Haggard admitted to "sexual immorality" and a long battle against feelings contrary to his beliefs. He admitted buying methamphetamine but said he never used it. Haggard did not respond to interview requests.
Among other things, the overseers urged Haggard to enter a 12-step
Ted Haggard was fired for "sexual immorality." The church had no clear succession plan. program for sexual addiction, Ware said.
Ralph said three weeks of counseling at an undisclosed Arizona treatment center helped Haggard immensely and left Haggard sure of one thing.
"He is completely heterosexual," Ralph said. "That is something he discovered. It was the acting- out situations where things took place. It wasn't a constant thing."
Why Haggard chose to act out in that manner is something Haggard and his advisers are trying to discern, Ralph said.
In investigating Haggard's assertion that his extramarital sexual contact was limited to former male escort Mike Jones, the board talked to people close to Haggard and found no evidence contradicting him, Ralph said.
"If we're going to be proved wrong, somebody else is going to come forward, and that usually happens really quickly," he said. "We're into this thing over 90 days, and it hasn't happened."
Steering Haggard away from a return to ministry was based, in part, on Haggard's high profile, Ralph said. He cited biblical passages about holding influential figures to a higher standard.
"Nobody is saying he can't go back into ministry," Ralph said. "Somewhere down the road, that could very well happen, and that would be wonderful."
Counseling continues
Haggard is being asked to join a church wherever the couple moves and continue the Christian counseling he receives twice a week, Ralph said.
The oversight board that includes Ralph is focusing on New Life Church's future but continues to counsel Haggard.
What has been termed Haggard's "restoration" is being overseen by another panel: H.B. London, who runs a Focus on the Family ministry to pastors, and megachurch pastors Tommy Barnett and Jack Hayford.
London said he was not surprised Haggard was considering the psychological field.
"Many of us that go into the healing, helping professions do so out of some sort of dysfunction or traumatic event in our lives, and we want to do what we can to help other people avoid what we've gone through," he said. "He is certainly gifted and intelligent and has an intuitive side to him. And he has life experience. Those are good credentials."
I guess it just depends on when you want to actually use Google for things, eh? Surprisingly, "The Google" seems to swing both ways, much like many conservatives these days...:mj07:
George W. Bush's link to Evangelical Right caught in November Surprise
After admitting "some guilt" in accusations of purchasing gay sex and using amphetamines, Ted Haggard, megachurch pastor, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, and adviser to George W. Bush, resigns
Pastor Ted Haggard got a November Surprise: Only a few days before Colorado voters were to head to the polls to vote on two ballot initiatives involving gay marriage, Mike Jones, a former gay escort claimed that he had a three-year sexual relationship with Haggard, the founder and senior leader of the 14,000 member Colorado Springs, Colorado-based New Life Church, the state's largest megachurch. Haggard also served as president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE - website) whose 30-million members come from more than 45,000 churches across America. Over the past few years, Haggard has been a regular advisor to the Bush administration.
Haggard is well-connected politically, having often met with President Bush and his staff at the White House.
Within 48 hours of Jones' revelations and despite receiving a vote of confidence from Dr. James C. Dobson, Haggard resigned his post at the NAE, and "voluntarily" took an administrative leave of absence from his church. On Friday morning a church spokesman admitted to a Colorado Springs television station that there was "some guilt" on Haggard's part, while an independent voice identification expert is set to declare voice mails left on Jones' answering service were "perfect matches" on nine of 12 words.
Haggard's 48 hours
During an appearance on the Peter Boyles show on KHOW 630 AM radio, Mike Jones said "After sitting back and contemplating this issue, the biggest reason (for exposing it) is being a gay man all my life, I have experience with my friends, some great sadness of people that were in a relationship through the years" and were not able to enjoy the same rights and privileges as a married man and woman.
"I felt it was my responsibility to my fellow brothers and sisters, that I had to take a stand, and I cannot sit back anymore and hear (what) to me is an anti-gay message."
According to a report posted on the website of Denver's 9News.com on the evening of November 1, and updated the following morning, Jones told 9 Wants to Know Investigative Reporter Paula Woodward that he has had a "sexual business" relationship with Pastor Haggard for the past three years.
Jones "started talking to 9 Wants to Know two months ago," 9News.com reported. "He claims Haggard has been paying him for sex over the past three years, even though Haggard preaches that homosexuality is a sin. Jones also claims Haggard used methamphetamine in his presence on several occasions."
"People may look at me and think what I've done is immoral, but I think I had to do the moral thing in my mind and that is expose someone who is preaching one thing and doing the opposite behind everybody's back," said Jones.
In an exclusive interview with Haggard on Wednesday evening, the Pastor denied having "a homosexual relationship with a man in Denver. I am steady with my wife. I'm faithful to my wife."
At first, Haggard denied the charges, trying to pass them off as an election year dirty trick: "I don't know if this is election year politics or if this has to do with the marriage amendment or what it is, but I'm not even the guy who will investigate it or question it. I don't know what the dynamics are, but this independent group will come in and do that."
Later, however, Haggard's three paragraph statement announcing his decision to step down "contained no denial of the allegations by 49-year-old Mike Jones, of Denver," reported the Rocky Mountain News on November 3. And on Friday Ross Parsley, the temporary head of Haggard's church, admitted that Haggard was guilty of some indiscretions.
According to a Cara DeGette post at Colorado Confidential, "New Life Church has contributed $12,000 to the campaign for Amendment 43...[the] ballot measure that would define marriage as between a man and a woman in the state's constitution. But, Haggard has not exactly been 'the hammer on the gay marriage issue,'" New Life Church Associate Pastor Rob Brendle said.
"They're looking for the guy who's holding the gun on [Amendment] 43 but this is underhanded; it's debased and they've got the wrong guy," Brendle pointed out.
According to DeGette, "Haggard clearly supports Amendment 43, but he has not been in the forefront of opposition to Colorado's Referendum I, which would recognize same-gender partnerships."
An early September story in the Colorado Springs Independent pointed out that "While Haggard supports federal and state constitutional amendments that limit marriage to a man and a woman, he's more measured in his view of domestic partnerships."
"If the state wants to provide people who are in a different type of relationship the same benefits as marriage, that's up to the community," Haggard said. "As a Christian, I would be hesitant to do anything that would deny people medical insurance or the ability to visit their partner in a hospital."
According to the Colorado Springs Independent, "Haggard agrees with Lawrence v. Texas, the 2003 Supreme Court decision that struck down anti-sodomy laws and, unlike [Focus on the Family founder James] Dobson, is generally cautious about codifying religious teaching in law."
"We believe within the church that sexuality should be only between a married man and a woman," Haggard said. "But there are many things that I teach in the church that I would never want integrated into civil law."
Well-connected to the Bush Administration
In conservative evangelical Christian circles, Haggard was one of the rising stars; the heir apparent of folks likes Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Dobson. In 2005, then NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw profiled Haggard in a series on mega-churches. In addition, the pastor was also listed by Time magazine as one of the 25 most influential Evangelicals in America last year.
Haggard is well-connected politically, having often met with President Bush and his staff at the White House. Harper's contributing editor Jeff Sharlet pointed out that "No pastor in America holds more sway over the political direction of evangelicalism than does Pastor Ted." (lol)
In a Wall Street Journal story dated August 13, 2004, Haggard told reporter Elizabeth Bernstein that he participates in "a weekly conference call...that's led by Tim Goeglein, the White House's liaison to the conservative community, and includes prominent religious leaders. 'We have direct access,'" Haggard told Bernstein. "I can call [Mr. Goeglein], he'll take my concern to the president and get back to me in 24 hours."
According to Haggard, "The weekly conference call with the White House" allows him to give the administration "the pulse of the evangelical world." lmfao!!!
In 2004, Haggard was heavily involved in "trying to boost evangelical voter participation," the Wall Street Journal reported. "On Sept. 19, he co-hosted a two-hour broadcast encouraging viewers to make it to the polls and to call their congressional representatives in support of the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would ban same-sex marriages. The show was carried on three Christian television networks and as many as 1,500 Christian radio stations.
"Meanwhile, Haggard makes no secret of his support of President Bush. Of the three framed pictures hanging outside his office, two are of himself and the president. (The other is of himself and Mel Gibson, who pre-screened "The Passion of Christ" at a conference organized by Mr. Haggard.)"
The final hours
Early on Thursday, November 2, Dr. James C. Dobson the founder and Chairman of Focus on the Family, was quick to issue a statement about Haggard: "It is unconscionable that the legitimate news media would report a rumor like this based on nothing but one man's accusation. Ted Haggard is a friend of mine and it appears someone is trying to damage his reputation as a way of influencing the outcome of Tuesday's election -- especially the vote on Colorado's marriage-protection amendment -- which Ted strongly supports."
"He has shown a great deal of grace under these unfortunate circumstances, quickly turning this matter over to his church for an independent investigation. That is a testament to the character I have seen him exhibit over and over again through the years."
Also on November 2, the Rocky Mountain News reported that Jones said Haggard's denial was a lie. "Yes he is (lying)," said Jones. "He had a relationship with me. We had gay sex." According to the newspaper, "Jones also said during his appearance with Boyles that he was paid money by Haggard, who made frequent trips to Denver for sexual liaisons, that he has recorded voicemails and a letter from Haggard, and that he had also witnessed Haggard use methamphetamine.
"Jones offered to take a polygraph examination concerning his claim, and Boyles said that will occur Friday during his morning radio show." During the Friday morning show, a polygraph operator declared that Jones' polygraph "tracings showed some deception," although his mental and physical states may have played a part in the finding.
Late Thursday afternoon, the Denver Post reported that Haggard had resigned from his post at the National Association of Evangelicals and "placed himself on administrative leave pending investigation, spiritual counsel and a decision by the [New Life Church] board of overseers, the church's legal counsel said."
"I am voluntarily stepping aside from leadership so that the overseer process can be allowed to proceed with integrity. I hope to be able to discuss this matter in more detail at a later date," Haggard's statement said.
According to the Denver Post, Jones showed the newspaper "an envelope addressed to him from 'Art,' a name Jones says Haggard used - sent from an address in Colorado Springs. 'Arthur' is Haggard's middle name. Jones said the envelope came to him with two $100 bills inside. Jones also played a recording of a voicemail left for Jones from 'Art.' Jones refused to reveal what the topic of the voicemail was about because there could be legal problems and he wants to consult with an attorney."
"They want to protect the sanctity of marriage and I am trying to figure out what that means because they are not doing a good job," Jones said of anti-gay marriage proponents. "To have someone in such a high profile position preaching against them and doing opposite behind other people's backs is hypocritical."
"It's ... worth remembering," the Carpetbagger Report pointed out Thursday afternoon, "that in a broad movement, Haggard was occasionally a voice of reason. Over the summer, for example, when there was a growing debate about the American use of torture on suspected terrorists, Haggard stepped up to sign a joint statement that said torture 'violates the basic dignity of the human person' and 'contradicts our nation's most cherished values.' The statement added, 'Nothing less is at stake in the torture abuse crisis than the soul of our nation. What does it signify if torture is condemned in word but allowed in deed?'
"Moreover, Haggard's National Association of Evangelicals was one of a handful of Christian groups to show some leadership in dealing with global warming, and pressured the Bush administration to change its position.
"For that matter, when Pat Robertson called for Hugo Chavez's assassination, Haggard also told a reporter, 'Pat doesn't speak for evangelicals any more than Dr. Phil speaks for mental health professionals.'"
Given Haggard's prominence in the evangelical and political communities, his affair is of far greater import than the televangelist scandals of the 1980s involving the Rev. Jimmy Swaggart and PTL's Jim Bakker -- the former was caught engaging in meet-ups with prostitutes, while the latter was discovered dabbling in both unique sexual relationships, and contemptible financial shenanigans.
Stephen Bennett, founder and executive director of Stephen Bennett Ministries - a Christian evangelical ministry dealing with the issue of homosexuality, as well as pastor of Heavenly Hope Christian Church - an evangelical Bible church - "expressed sadness and anger at the breaking Associated Press news of Rev. Ted Haggard and his alleged homosexual affairs and illicit drug use," according to a statement issued by the Stephen Bennett Ministries.
Bennett, who readily admits to being a former homosexual, said "If these allegations are true about Rev. Haggard - America's Top Evangelical Christian - I am completely disgusted and dismayed. After being in major Christian circles for many years, the hypocrisy that I have found and personally seen in main stream Christianity is unfortunate and heartbreaking."
Bennett ended by saying, "Will this affect the elections next Tuesday? Are Republicans disenfranchised with the hypocrisy within their own party - especially the hypocrisy within the driving force - the Christian Conservative base? You better believe it.
"The more and more hypocrisy I see each day, the more I realize next Tuesday we are going to get EXACTLY what we deserve. Yet I must NEVER forget where I came from and always remember ' But for the grace of God, there go I.'"
A Friday morning phone call to the offices of Focus in the Family found that all the organization's spokespersons "were in a meeting right now." The receptionist did allow that the organization would be issueing a statement later. During a follow-up call, Gary Schneeberger said that he had no comments on the Haggard situation and the Focus on the Family will be issuing a press release. MediaTransparency also contacted the Reverend Donald Wildmon's American Family Association. Cindy Roberts, AFA's Director of Media and Public Relations, told me that she couldn't comment on the Haggard story because she didn't know enough about it. She also said that "everyone is out of the office."
After admitting "some guilt" in accusations of purchasing gay sex and using amphetamines, Ted Haggard, megachurch pastor, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, and adviser to George W. Bush, resigns
Pastor Ted Haggard got a November Surprise: Only a few days before Colorado voters were to head to the polls to vote on two ballot initiatives involving gay marriage, Mike Jones, a former gay escort claimed that he had a three-year sexual relationship with Haggard, the founder and senior leader of the 14,000 member Colorado Springs, Colorado-based New Life Church, the state's largest megachurch. Haggard also served as president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE - website) whose 30-million members come from more than 45,000 churches across America. Over the past few years, Haggard has been a regular advisor to the Bush administration.
Haggard is well-connected politically, having often met with President Bush and his staff at the White House.
Within 48 hours of Jones' revelations and despite receiving a vote of confidence from Dr. James C. Dobson, Haggard resigned his post at the NAE, and "voluntarily" took an administrative leave of absence from his church. On Friday morning a church spokesman admitted to a Colorado Springs television station that there was "some guilt" on Haggard's part, while an independent voice identification expert is set to declare voice mails left on Jones' answering service were "perfect matches" on nine of 12 words.
Haggard's 48 hours
During an appearance on the Peter Boyles show on KHOW 630 AM radio, Mike Jones said "After sitting back and contemplating this issue, the biggest reason (for exposing it) is being a gay man all my life, I have experience with my friends, some great sadness of people that were in a relationship through the years" and were not able to enjoy the same rights and privileges as a married man and woman.
"I felt it was my responsibility to my fellow brothers and sisters, that I had to take a stand, and I cannot sit back anymore and hear (what) to me is an anti-gay message."
According to a report posted on the website of Denver's 9News.com on the evening of November 1, and updated the following morning, Jones told 9 Wants to Know Investigative Reporter Paula Woodward that he has had a "sexual business" relationship with Pastor Haggard for the past three years.
Jones "started talking to 9 Wants to Know two months ago," 9News.com reported. "He claims Haggard has been paying him for sex over the past three years, even though Haggard preaches that homosexuality is a sin. Jones also claims Haggard used methamphetamine in his presence on several occasions."
"People may look at me and think what I've done is immoral, but I think I had to do the moral thing in my mind and that is expose someone who is preaching one thing and doing the opposite behind everybody's back," said Jones.
In an exclusive interview with Haggard on Wednesday evening, the Pastor denied having "a homosexual relationship with a man in Denver. I am steady with my wife. I'm faithful to my wife."
At first, Haggard denied the charges, trying to pass them off as an election year dirty trick: "I don't know if this is election year politics or if this has to do with the marriage amendment or what it is, but I'm not even the guy who will investigate it or question it. I don't know what the dynamics are, but this independent group will come in and do that."
Later, however, Haggard's three paragraph statement announcing his decision to step down "contained no denial of the allegations by 49-year-old Mike Jones, of Denver," reported the Rocky Mountain News on November 3. And on Friday Ross Parsley, the temporary head of Haggard's church, admitted that Haggard was guilty of some indiscretions.
According to a Cara DeGette post at Colorado Confidential, "New Life Church has contributed $12,000 to the campaign for Amendment 43...[the] ballot measure that would define marriage as between a man and a woman in the state's constitution. But, Haggard has not exactly been 'the hammer on the gay marriage issue,'" New Life Church Associate Pastor Rob Brendle said.
"They're looking for the guy who's holding the gun on [Amendment] 43 but this is underhanded; it's debased and they've got the wrong guy," Brendle pointed out.
According to DeGette, "Haggard clearly supports Amendment 43, but he has not been in the forefront of opposition to Colorado's Referendum I, which would recognize same-gender partnerships."
An early September story in the Colorado Springs Independent pointed out that "While Haggard supports federal and state constitutional amendments that limit marriage to a man and a woman, he's more measured in his view of domestic partnerships."
"If the state wants to provide people who are in a different type of relationship the same benefits as marriage, that's up to the community," Haggard said. "As a Christian, I would be hesitant to do anything that would deny people medical insurance or the ability to visit their partner in a hospital."
According to the Colorado Springs Independent, "Haggard agrees with Lawrence v. Texas, the 2003 Supreme Court decision that struck down anti-sodomy laws and, unlike [Focus on the Family founder James] Dobson, is generally cautious about codifying religious teaching in law."
"We believe within the church that sexuality should be only between a married man and a woman," Haggard said. "But there are many things that I teach in the church that I would never want integrated into civil law."
Well-connected to the Bush Administration
In conservative evangelical Christian circles, Haggard was one of the rising stars; the heir apparent of folks likes Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Dobson. In 2005, then NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw profiled Haggard in a series on mega-churches. In addition, the pastor was also listed by Time magazine as one of the 25 most influential Evangelicals in America last year.
Haggard is well-connected politically, having often met with President Bush and his staff at the White House. Harper's contributing editor Jeff Sharlet pointed out that "No pastor in America holds more sway over the political direction of evangelicalism than does Pastor Ted." (lol)
In a Wall Street Journal story dated August 13, 2004, Haggard told reporter Elizabeth Bernstein that he participates in "a weekly conference call...that's led by Tim Goeglein, the White House's liaison to the conservative community, and includes prominent religious leaders. 'We have direct access,'" Haggard told Bernstein. "I can call [Mr. Goeglein], he'll take my concern to the president and get back to me in 24 hours."
According to Haggard, "The weekly conference call with the White House" allows him to give the administration "the pulse of the evangelical world." lmfao!!!
In 2004, Haggard was heavily involved in "trying to boost evangelical voter participation," the Wall Street Journal reported. "On Sept. 19, he co-hosted a two-hour broadcast encouraging viewers to make it to the polls and to call their congressional representatives in support of the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would ban same-sex marriages. The show was carried on three Christian television networks and as many as 1,500 Christian radio stations.
"Meanwhile, Haggard makes no secret of his support of President Bush. Of the three framed pictures hanging outside his office, two are of himself and the president. (The other is of himself and Mel Gibson, who pre-screened "The Passion of Christ" at a conference organized by Mr. Haggard.)"
The final hours
Early on Thursday, November 2, Dr. James C. Dobson the founder and Chairman of Focus on the Family, was quick to issue a statement about Haggard: "It is unconscionable that the legitimate news media would report a rumor like this based on nothing but one man's accusation. Ted Haggard is a friend of mine and it appears someone is trying to damage his reputation as a way of influencing the outcome of Tuesday's election -- especially the vote on Colorado's marriage-protection amendment -- which Ted strongly supports."
"He has shown a great deal of grace under these unfortunate circumstances, quickly turning this matter over to his church for an independent investigation. That is a testament to the character I have seen him exhibit over and over again through the years."
Also on November 2, the Rocky Mountain News reported that Jones said Haggard's denial was a lie. "Yes he is (lying)," said Jones. "He had a relationship with me. We had gay sex." According to the newspaper, "Jones also said during his appearance with Boyles that he was paid money by Haggard, who made frequent trips to Denver for sexual liaisons, that he has recorded voicemails and a letter from Haggard, and that he had also witnessed Haggard use methamphetamine.
"Jones offered to take a polygraph examination concerning his claim, and Boyles said that will occur Friday during his morning radio show." During the Friday morning show, a polygraph operator declared that Jones' polygraph "tracings showed some deception," although his mental and physical states may have played a part in the finding.
Late Thursday afternoon, the Denver Post reported that Haggard had resigned from his post at the National Association of Evangelicals and "placed himself on administrative leave pending investigation, spiritual counsel and a decision by the [New Life Church] board of overseers, the church's legal counsel said."
"I am voluntarily stepping aside from leadership so that the overseer process can be allowed to proceed with integrity. I hope to be able to discuss this matter in more detail at a later date," Haggard's statement said.
According to the Denver Post, Jones showed the newspaper "an envelope addressed to him from 'Art,' a name Jones says Haggard used - sent from an address in Colorado Springs. 'Arthur' is Haggard's middle name. Jones said the envelope came to him with two $100 bills inside. Jones also played a recording of a voicemail left for Jones from 'Art.' Jones refused to reveal what the topic of the voicemail was about because there could be legal problems and he wants to consult with an attorney."
"They want to protect the sanctity of marriage and I am trying to figure out what that means because they are not doing a good job," Jones said of anti-gay marriage proponents. "To have someone in such a high profile position preaching against them and doing opposite behind other people's backs is hypocritical."
"It's ... worth remembering," the Carpetbagger Report pointed out Thursday afternoon, "that in a broad movement, Haggard was occasionally a voice of reason. Over the summer, for example, when there was a growing debate about the American use of torture on suspected terrorists, Haggard stepped up to sign a joint statement that said torture 'violates the basic dignity of the human person' and 'contradicts our nation's most cherished values.' The statement added, 'Nothing less is at stake in the torture abuse crisis than the soul of our nation. What does it signify if torture is condemned in word but allowed in deed?'
"Moreover, Haggard's National Association of Evangelicals was one of a handful of Christian groups to show some leadership in dealing with global warming, and pressured the Bush administration to change its position.
"For that matter, when Pat Robertson called for Hugo Chavez's assassination, Haggard also told a reporter, 'Pat doesn't speak for evangelicals any more than Dr. Phil speaks for mental health professionals.'"
Given Haggard's prominence in the evangelical and political communities, his affair is of far greater import than the televangelist scandals of the 1980s involving the Rev. Jimmy Swaggart and PTL's Jim Bakker -- the former was caught engaging in meet-ups with prostitutes, while the latter was discovered dabbling in both unique sexual relationships, and contemptible financial shenanigans.
Stephen Bennett, founder and executive director of Stephen Bennett Ministries - a Christian evangelical ministry dealing with the issue of homosexuality, as well as pastor of Heavenly Hope Christian Church - an evangelical Bible church - "expressed sadness and anger at the breaking Associated Press news of Rev. Ted Haggard and his alleged homosexual affairs and illicit drug use," according to a statement issued by the Stephen Bennett Ministries.
Bennett, who readily admits to being a former homosexual, said "If these allegations are true about Rev. Haggard - America's Top Evangelical Christian - I am completely disgusted and dismayed. After being in major Christian circles for many years, the hypocrisy that I have found and personally seen in main stream Christianity is unfortunate and heartbreaking."
Bennett ended by saying, "Will this affect the elections next Tuesday? Are Republicans disenfranchised with the hypocrisy within their own party - especially the hypocrisy within the driving force - the Christian Conservative base? You better believe it.
"The more and more hypocrisy I see each day, the more I realize next Tuesday we are going to get EXACTLY what we deserve. Yet I must NEVER forget where I came from and always remember ' But for the grace of God, there go I.'"
A Friday morning phone call to the offices of Focus in the Family found that all the organization's spokespersons "were in a meeting right now." The receptionist did allow that the organization would be issueing a statement later. During a follow-up call, Gary Schneeberger said that he had no comments on the Haggard situation and the Focus on the Family will be issuing a press release. MediaTransparency also contacted the Reverend Donald Wildmon's American Family Association. Cindy Roberts, AFA's Director of Media and Public Relations, told me that she couldn't comment on the Haggard story because she didn't know enough about it. She also said that "everyone is out of the office."
Wayne,
Does any of this refresh your memory?
Like Chad said and i've said before, your 'google' is a different version and always has been.
You know damn well who Ted Haggard is. Puuuulllease.
Does any of this refresh your memory?
Like Chad said and i've said before, your 'google' is a different version and always has been.
You know damn well who Ted Haggard is. Puuuulllease.
it`s fine for the libs to gush over the speech and fan themselves at the sheer awesomeness of it.....and it`s fine for we conservatives to point out that theres nothing in this man's resume that makes him qualified to be anything more than a somewhat-successful motivational speaker for the mildly retarded...
but,somebody explain how a peripherally connected(at best...and i`m giving you the benefit of the doubt) hypocrite who`s a closet homosexual is comparable to a racist, anti-american/antisemite who is so close to obama that ""I can no more disown him [Rev. Wright] than I can my white grandmother,?....(this is the grandmother that raised his miserable ass....and right there he jumps the shark)...
this guy`s as close as family to him(but remember,you don`t choose your family...you DO choose your pastor/mentor/spiritual advisor).....
yeah,i question his decision making....
he happens to have chosen a racist anti-white/anti-semite, america hating lunatic.....
who has close ties to farakhan(gave him a lifetime achievement award...lol)...
he never heard all these anti-american,anti-semitic hateful statements,even though he was a "community leader" for over a decade prior to becoming a senator?.....a member of the church for 20 years?.....
this man who he disinvited to give his presidential invocation speech in february of 2007?....after saying last week he`d never heard of these comments?....
he`s a liar...flat out...
save your breath,dtb... the obama faithful, well, they could find him in bed with a dead white transvestite hooker with a bloody knife in his hand, hopped up on goofballs, and it still wouldn't matter, since he's "the chosen one".....
"black liberation theology" allows obama and the congregation to clap, cheer,
and dance to the denunciation of the jews, whites, and "damn america"....
no biggie...the man only wants to become president....
they`re just letting off a little steam.....ala david duke...malcolm x....farakhan....
but,somebody explain how a peripherally connected(at best...and i`m giving you the benefit of the doubt) hypocrite who`s a closet homosexual is comparable to a racist, anti-american/antisemite who is so close to obama that ""I can no more disown him [Rev. Wright] than I can my white grandmother,?....(this is the grandmother that raised his miserable ass....and right there he jumps the shark)...
this guy`s as close as family to him(but remember,you don`t choose your family...you DO choose your pastor/mentor/spiritual advisor).....
yeah,i question his decision making....
he happens to have chosen a racist anti-white/anti-semite, america hating lunatic.....
who has close ties to farakhan(gave him a lifetime achievement award...lol)...
he never heard all these anti-american,anti-semitic hateful statements,even though he was a "community leader" for over a decade prior to becoming a senator?.....a member of the church for 20 years?.....
this man who he disinvited to give his presidential invocation speech in february of 2007?....after saying last week he`d never heard of these comments?....
he`s a liar...flat out...
save your breath,dtb... the obama faithful, well, they could find him in bed with a dead white transvestite hooker with a bloody knife in his hand, hopped up on goofballs, and it still wouldn't matter, since he's "the chosen one".....
"black liberation theology" allows obama and the congregation to clap, cheer,
and dance to the denunciation of the jews, whites, and "damn america"....
no biggie...the man only wants to become president....
they`re just letting off a little steam.....ala david duke...malcolm x....farakhan....
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While I am not an Obama faithful by ANY means, and have said so repeatedly here, I thought his speech (one written in his own words, and not by a speechwriter, by the way) was a good one and addressed the very issues that you - wease - continue to rip him on. He disavowed the comments in question, said they were wrong, and said the man was wrong. He also stood up for the man throughout his personal history, which shows character, and thoughtfulness. The man is part black, part white. His white grandmother probably had more to do with his thought process and thinking than the right reverend, don't you think? I do, and I think it's foolish to think otherwise.
Obama has a unique perspective on race issues, and has the intelligence and speaking ability to give others the same - if they care to think about it, and not just dismiss WITH PREJUDICE. He actually could be a galvanizing figure in this important issue for our country - if people don't dismiss WITH PREJUDICE. The complaints, in my opinion, are based more out of fear and political posturing than reality. Much like conservatives would have you believe about the war in Iraq and how it applies to terra-rism. It's all about fear and trying to make people feel afraid.
This is all coming from someone still thinking Hillary is the better answer in the big picture, and from someone who really admires John McCain, and possibly would vote for him above Obama.
There are many things to be concerned about with Obama. This issue, in my opinion, is weak and functioning out of the same emotion, by those afraid of his ascension in politics.
Seriously, can EACH OF YOU be measured by the pastor or priest that you were taken to listen to every Sunday until you were old enough to drive? How about all of the Catholics that were taught by priests who did little more than fondle them? Than pastors who did drugs and visited prostitutes? Or those politicians who have made serious mistakes in their lives, and continue to do so?
Here we have a bright, intelligent person who is uniquely qualified to comment on race, and can speak in his own words on a terribly difficult situation at the most important time in his life. Seems to me, that is immediately a qualification for a President, considering what he would have to deal with in that position. Can you imagine what George Bush would do in the same situation? :shrug:
Obama has a unique perspective on race issues, and has the intelligence and speaking ability to give others the same - if they care to think about it, and not just dismiss WITH PREJUDICE. He actually could be a galvanizing figure in this important issue for our country - if people don't dismiss WITH PREJUDICE. The complaints, in my opinion, are based more out of fear and political posturing than reality. Much like conservatives would have you believe about the war in Iraq and how it applies to terra-rism. It's all about fear and trying to make people feel afraid.
This is all coming from someone still thinking Hillary is the better answer in the big picture, and from someone who really admires John McCain, and possibly would vote for him above Obama.
There are many things to be concerned about with Obama. This issue, in my opinion, is weak and functioning out of the same emotion, by those afraid of his ascension in politics.
Seriously, can EACH OF YOU be measured by the pastor or priest that you were taken to listen to every Sunday until you were old enough to drive? How about all of the Catholics that were taught by priests who did little more than fondle them? Than pastors who did drugs and visited prostitutes? Or those politicians who have made serious mistakes in their lives, and continue to do so?
Here we have a bright, intelligent person who is uniquely qualified to comment on race, and can speak in his own words on a terribly difficult situation at the most important time in his life. Seems to me, that is immediately a qualification for a President, considering what he would have to deal with in that position. Can you imagine what George Bush would do in the same situation? :shrug:
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Thanks for updates from all involved--
--and Matt--I had not heard of him previously--seriously
You have adaquatley proved point pastor and spiritual adviser stepped down for immoral conduct-
Now you have the chore of equating a person who who commits immoral acts and is immediately released when discovered--
---to a person who willing associates with a known racial biggot for twenty years and still defends him.
--of course depends on which story you believe the one last week where he went on fox and said he'd never heard wright give any of these rants in his 20 years there or the one yesterday where he acknowledged he did.
--however will admit your comparison holds more water than his comparison to Wright and Geraldine
--What has amazed me over this ordeal is I had no idea such hate in general has been propagated inside churchs in the U.S.
How can we expect youths who are exposed to these rabid doctrines--then go home and listen to more via rap--ever have chance of going through life without racial overtones--
--and how can Obama who willingly chose this spiritual atmosphere for himself and family--come out and dupe anyone into believing he is "the great healer"
--so far his Dem backers I've seen on interviews per subject have all had same answer--"lets move on"--but appears public has not taken it so lightly-
A Rasmussen survey taken from March 14-16 of 1,200 likely voters showed 56 percent of those interviewed were less likely to vote for Obama because of Wright?s comments.
--and Matt--I had not heard of him previously--seriously
You have adaquatley proved point pastor and spiritual adviser stepped down for immoral conduct-
Now you have the chore of equating a person who who commits immoral acts and is immediately released when discovered--
---to a person who willing associates with a known racial biggot for twenty years and still defends him.
--of course depends on which story you believe the one last week where he went on fox and said he'd never heard wright give any of these rants in his 20 years there or the one yesterday where he acknowledged he did.
--however will admit your comparison holds more water than his comparison to Wright and Geraldine
--What has amazed me over this ordeal is I had no idea such hate in general has been propagated inside churchs in the U.S.
How can we expect youths who are exposed to these rabid doctrines--then go home and listen to more via rap--ever have chance of going through life without racial overtones--
--and how can Obama who willingly chose this spiritual atmosphere for himself and family--come out and dupe anyone into believing he is "the great healer"
--so far his Dem backers I've seen on interviews per subject have all had same answer--"lets move on"--but appears public has not taken it so lightly-
A Rasmussen survey taken from March 14-16 of 1,200 likely voters showed 56 percent of those interviewed were less likely to vote for Obama because of Wright?s comments.
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That Polls old. March 16th. New poll yesterday he's back. His speech was well recieved acrosse country. Only place that has problem but is no surprise was Rush and his tv out let Fox. But then both are late arrivals of the truth.
