He was one of the originals I was drawn to when I found this site.
Wow some of the runs he had
Odor knows how to fight, yo!
- Thread starter The Joker
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He was one of the originals I was drawn to when I found this site.
Wow some of the runs he had
You just can't respond without personal attacks. This is your M.O. - you do it all the time, in every forum, to pretty much every poster you disagree with. You always gotta be right - even when you are not. Sad, the personal attacks were exactly what Jack was trying to root out.
Your view of the facts are different. It doesn't make your view right. Not in my mind, or in others.
You are not always right. That is for certain. We are 1/4 of the way through the season - Bautista knew the rule. And he was going in hard on Odor to get even for being plunked. All the analysts that I watched that night said the same thing - intent on Bautista's part. And for his effort, he got punched in the face. Seems fair. Obviously the suspensions weren't fair.
I didn't attack you at all. Once again you voice things that didn't happen. Yes the suspensions were fair, fair enough. I have yet to see one sportscaster fault Bautista, but I only watched espn today. Wilbon called for 20 games or more on odor, Kornheiser thought the rest of the season, as did the analyst on Sportscenter, forgot his name but he's a retired player. So not sure if you're watching national or local sports shows but not one that I have seen called for less than what Odor got. Also, facts are facts. There aren't different "views" of facts. You either accept them or you don't. You choose not to, opting for speculation and "intent". You say Bautista tried to injure him, yet his spikes were down and he was clearly in the baseline. Bautista stated that he could have injured him if he wanted to but chose not to. Right from the horse's mouth but you'd rather assign yourself as judge and jury, and call him a liar. That isn't what's called a fact, that's you disregarding the facts and placing your opinion in place of it. I didn't say one single demeaning thing tip you yet you said I made a personal attack, again, that isn't a fact. It's you dismissing the fact and placing your opinion in its place and claiming it as fact. Sorry Bubba cakes but you're not a factory maker (get it, it's a pun kind of).
Back to the false claim of a personal attack you leveled against me. What exactly did I say that was a personal attack, rather than a statement of truth? You alleged that I probably think the tackle Martin made on McMahon was not dirty. You made baseless analogies that are irrelevant and you made snide little remarks towards me, and told me how wrong I was. You do it every time and I've actually asked you nicely before to quit putting words in my mouth. That goes for making false claims of a personal attack as well. I didn't say a single thing to you that wasn't a fact. I knew you'd try an offhanded complaint to jaek in your response about being attacked, which is why I said don't whine. You did exactly as you always do and got exactly what you wanted. Don't make shitty remarks to me or tell me "what I probably think" on a subject and you won't have to worry about me being a big one meany to you.
Seriously, mags, I don't have anything against you other than what I just stated. That's it. You could just be a little accountable for your actions and intentions, it's not like it isn't in black and white just previous to your latest post.
I don't and didn't "need" to be right, I just was, as evidenced by the 8 game suspension to 1 for post game comments. I thought he should've gotten 10 games because that's what Michael Barrett got for a similar incident. I shown a little time watching the videos and seeing if maybe Odor had a history of this crap. Lo and behold, he did. I am wrong, a lot, but not on this and not on you.
Hope this helps,
FDC
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Back to the false claim of a personal attack you leveled against me. What exactly did I say that was a personal attack, rather than a statement of truth? You alleged that I probably think the tackle Martin made on McMahon was not dirty. You made baseless analogies that are irrelevant and you made snide little remarks towards me, and told me how wrong I was. You do it every time and I've actually asked you nicely before to quit putting words in my mouth. That goes for making false claims of a personal attack as well. I didn't say a single thing to you that wasn't a fact. I knew you'd try an offhanded complaint to jaek in your response about being attacked, which is why I said don't whine. You did exactly as you always do and got exactly what you wanted. Don't make shitty remarks to me or tell me "what I probably think" on a subject and you won't have to worry about me being a big one meany to you.
Seriously, mags, I don't have anything against you other than what I just stated. That's it. You could just be a little accountable for your actions and intentions, it's not like it isn't in black and white just previous to your latest post.
I don't and didn't "need" to be right, I just was, as evidenced by the 8 game suspension to 1 for post game comments. I thought he should've gotten 10 games because that's what Michael Barrett got for a similar incident. I shown a little time watching the videos and seeing if maybe Odor had a history of this crap. Lo and behold, he did. I am wrong, a lot, but not on this and not on you.
Hope this helps,
FDC
Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
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The problem with this is, it's just wrong. I have a nice screen shot that I really don't feel like uploading to an image hosting site (because I would have to create an account) but I will if it helps the conversation. Pause the video 3-4 second in on this page and let's talk about it.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...ch-face-toronto-blue-jays-jose-bautista-brawl
What you will see is Bautista 5 feet from the bag AND NOT STARTING HIS SLIDE YET while odor is STILL GETTING THE BALL OUT OF HIS GLOVE. So, you would have us believe that, from less than 5 feet from the bag while Odor is getting the ball out of his glove, Bautista can somehow determine the ball is going to be throw at his head so he's going to slide late (nearly 8 feet past the bag)? NONE of what you propose is accurate about Odor throwing at his head and that being the cause of the incident.
Let the video go to just after 4 seconds and you will see the ball STILL IN ODOR'S HAND and Bautista just starting his side about a foot from the bag. Your version of the "facts as you see them" are complete bullshit.
Again, Bautista is a foot away from the bag and just starting to slide and Odor has the ball in his throwing hand. How can Bautista determine he needs to slide late/hard to avoid getting hit by the ball?
I really don't care about what Odor has or has not done in the past, in this incident Bautista knew (or at least he should have) that the situation was a powder keg ready to have a match tossed on it and he chose to throw that match. Bautista is to blame here 100%. If Texas owns any culpability here it's waiting until the last possible minute to throw at him.
You flip your bat like a little bitch and show a pitcher up on a nationally televised playoff game you should know that's not going to play well. At any point if Bautista owns it and doesn't press the issue none of that happens.
Once Odor shoves him Bautista goes back at him, what the bloody hell does ANYONE think is going to happen there? How is that a suckerpunch?
This is the best picture I can find and it's not as good as the video, but you honestly want to tell me Bautista slid the way he did because the ball was thrown at his face? Bautista's not yet even completely on the ground here, trailing knee past the bag and the ball is still in Odor's hand.
Come on man.
Dude, i said he slid hard, he admits he slid hard. He's supposed to quit playing hard because he might hurt someone's feelings or be aware that they're mad at him for flipping a bat? A powder keg? First, it isn't a powder keg situation when someone does something to you you've done exactly the same way or worse a hundred times. You don't get to get mad at that nor do you get to overreact to it when you're guilty of it.
I said Odor changed his normal throwing motion, which he did, to keep the ball low and at his face as Bautista was going down. Bautista DID NOT try to spije or hurt him any more than every other player that's tried to break up a double play, except for Odor, he does try to injure add evidenced by the videos I posted.
Then you go on to say you don't give a fuck about Odor's past discretions and in the next few sentences start talking about a bat flip Bautista did fron last year? Maybe you're busy a little more eager to hate on Bautista because of personal dislike and that's fine, but don't tell me that I'm bullshit because I don't think a baseball player should be aware of another's hurry feelings otherwise he deserves to be punched in the face. Sucker punched at that. Odor was looking for a fight, those are the facts and they are evidenced by the suspensions each received. Bautista got his for his post game comments as reported by espn and mlb network. Odor got his for punching a guy in the face. That makes him the one at fault. Nothing to even air about. U guess you can say I'm fucked up and wrong, just line toy can say O.J. was guilty, but you'd be wrong wouldn't you?
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I said Odor changed his normal throwing motion, which he did, to keep the ball low and at his face as Bautista was going down. Bautista DID NOT try to spije or hurt him any more than every other player that's tried to break up a double play, except for Odor, he does try to injure add evidenced by the videos I posted.
Then you go on to say you don't give a fuck about Odor's past discretions and in the next few sentences start talking about a bat flip Bautista did fron last year? Maybe you're busy a little more eager to hate on Bautista because of personal dislike and that's fine, but don't tell me that I'm bullshit because I don't think a baseball player should be aware of another's hurry feelings otherwise he deserves to be punched in the face. Sucker punched at that. Odor was looking for a fight, those are the facts and they are evidenced by the suspensions each received. Bautista got his for his post game comments as reported by espn and mlb network. Odor got his for punching a guy in the face. That makes him the one at fault. Nothing to even air about. U guess you can say I'm fucked up and wrong, just line toy can say O.J. was guilty, but you'd be wrong wouldn't you?
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And Odor spun around and said something first to Bautista, closed the gap as well, then shoved him. Hoe the fuck is that Bautista's fault anywhere in America? I mean in real life, not in the I hate Bautista so I'll disregard everything as it happened and inflect my own perspective of what all were thinking or supposed to be thinking life.
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To be clear, I didn't say you were bullshit, I said your theory about him sliding the way he did because the ball was being thrown at his face was bullshit, which it was, be honest.
I don't think there is any hypocrisy in not caring about whatever way Odor may or may not have slid in the past yet saying Bautista's bat flip is relevant. Bautista's bat flip was against Texas. Had Odor taken out a player at second base against Toronto and got thrown at for doing it I would say Odor's past was relevant here.
We BOTH know that's not the case. The bat flip is certainly relevant here.
I don't disagree that Odor said something first, but Bautista could have walked away or he could have done what all pseudo tough guys do and stood there until someone got between them. He didn't do that, he walked straight at Odor. Bautista had choices all along the way and he chose the path that lead to a punch in the face at every opportunity. To think he should not have seen it coming is just silly.
Wanna-be tough guy got jacked up and it was at least partly his own doing.
This to a fucking tee, remember it's a one run game and it's a slowly hit ball, the relay has to be fast, odor has to do what he can to first make the play at second base and get off a good throw, remember there wasn't instant replay in the past where ump would give ya the call in the vicinity. Odors job is to get to the bag, he's not watching Baitista he's watch my the ball making sure he is touching second base and turning and firing. As soon as he turns Bautista is on top of him. He Jumps up, words are said and he gets pushed, he comes forward and gets hit, how the hell does odor know what the guy is going to do, no
Sucker punch
For those who are saying it was right for Baitista to slide into the bag like that for retaliation because they waited to plunk him.... I call Bullshit! The fucker should have charged the mound and dealt with the guy who plunked him not go after the guy at second base FDC- no way odor was deliberately throwing at Bautista'a head/face. No way
No you didn't say I was bullshit. I meant it more as a generalization but I'll retract it and apologize. You didn't say it. However I did just look at the video replay frame by frame and it's even clearer to me now that Bautista stated going Dien into his slide at least 5-7 feet or so before the bag and Odor was clearly crouching and bent over and absolutely submarined that throw in an effort to hit Bautista in the face. So much so that halfway down Bautista reacts and leans his head to the third base side of the bag in an effort to avoid it. Odor still came very close to hitting him then. If Bautista came back at Odor as you're saying, he had a damn good reason to. Odor intentionally tried to hurt him add is his history that you say is irrelevant, but it's not man. It just isn't. The guy had consistently tried to injure other players throughout his career and it's on tape. It's relevant. Bautista might be an asshole but he did not try to intentionally hurt Odor just because he slid late and hard. If that were the case there would be no league, every player would have been suspended for life in high school or select ball.
I know it doesn't always seem so, but I do have a very open mind and try not to go into things with any preconceived notions. I'm not a fan of either player or either team, I assure you, but I know what I saw and I believe that Odor is 100% at fault and that his post game comments reinforce my feelings that he had every intention of trying anything possible to hurt Bautista or at the very least, provoke him.
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I know it doesn't always seem so, but I do have a very open mind and try not to go into things with any preconceived notions. I'm not a fan of either player or either team, I assure you, but I know what I saw and I believe that Odor is 100% at fault and that his post game comments reinforce my feelings that he had every intention of trying anything possible to hurt Bautista or at the very least, provoke him.
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Look at the video game by frame brother. Odor is bent over and crouching and makes a submarine throw narrowly missing Bautista's head by inches and only because he tilts his head out of the way. Feel free to look at the other videos of Odor making a throw anywhere to any base and tell me how many times you see him intentionally bent over and making a submarine throw. I can save you done time if you'd like and tell you, there are none. That isn't his normal throwing motion. Not by a long margin. I'm not the only one that saw it either. In his post game interviews he doesn't deny that he was doing exactly that. His reply when asked if he threw at Bautista was, "you saw what happen". So yes, he did do it and they're is a way to do it, just do like Odor did.
Do you not see him bent over and his release point is like two feet off the ground? You sure you're watching the same video I am?
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https://youtu.be/G7ic3UynU24
Pause at about :27 seconds and go frame by frame at about :32 seconds maybe you can explain why Odor has clearly altered his arm angle and throwing almost underhand, me importantly, why is he also clearly looking right at the ball and Bautista's face. Wouldn't you think he'd have his head up and looking to first? You think maybe that's why his throw wasn't even close to catchable? It couldn't be because he was knocked off balance because no contact had been made at that point. You sure you want to stick with the "no way" comment?
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Pause at about :27 seconds and go frame by frame at about :32 seconds maybe you can explain why Odor has clearly altered his arm angle and throwing almost underhand, me importantly, why is he also clearly looking right at the ball and Bautista's face. Wouldn't you think he'd have his head up and looking to first? You think maybe that's why his throw wasn't even close to catchable? It couldn't be because he was knocked off balance because no contact had been made at that point. You sure you want to stick with the "no way" comment?
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Ok I did that....
He is trying to turn a double play, he is in a shit storm of a hurry to turn the double play, he releases the ball at the point of the catch, his submarine throw is all predicated on where he caught the ball he has no time whatsoever to throw the ball to first any other way to get the guy out at first. It is of my opinion that every second basemen catching the ball where he does makes the same throw.
He is trying to turn a double play, he is in a shit storm of a hurry to turn the double play, he releases the ball at the point of the catch, his submarine throw is all predicated on where he caught the ball he has no time whatsoever to throw the ball to first any other way to get the guy out at first. It is of my opinion that every second basemen catching the ball where he does makes the same throw.
I will agree that Odor has had some dirty slides himself and should practice what he preaches. 8 game suspension is going to hurt my fantasy team for about a week but I'm in good position right now so it shouldn't be too bad :0002:mj07:
Even if all that was the case (and I'm not saying it is) I want you to assume whatever your normal throwing position is and then see how long it takes to alter that to a sidearm throw, especially if that isn't your normal throwing motion. It takes tenths of a second.
In those tenths of a second Bautista had time to make a decision to go in hard and late? No way anyone on the planet reacts that quick.
Maybe Odor did throw at him and if he did it was a dick move, but Bautista made up his mind when he left first base he was going in hard and late, you will have a difficult time convincing any rational person that that decision was made in tenths of a second during the last 5 feet of that run/side.
I've really got no dog in this fight either as we don't have baseball in Pittsburgh, but I know an asshole move when I see one and that is exactly what Bautista pulled. I don't mind seeing someone get punched in the face for it and think MLB was entirely too hard on Odor. Again, Bautista had several options here to avoid confrontation and he took none of them. Tough guy wasn't gonna back down, and he got jacked up for his lack of decision making.
I'm not denying Bautista intended to go in hard. I'm assuming he made his mind up to do so if given the chance. However, the slide Bautista made, while maybe illegal this season, wasn't all that uncommon or excessive in my opinion. Every player on both teams has seen players trying to break up the double play and Odor has done far worse in the past. That's my whole point. Odor has purposely slid hard into a player, gone out of the baseline and way later, sometimes purposely spikes him, and then punches the guy in the face for bitching about it. Then it happens to him, but not nearly as bad because he didn't purposely get spiked nor did he go out of the baseline, and suddenly it's a dirty play deserving of a punch in the face? Sure Bautista is a dick and not well liked, but what if that punch ends up seriously hurting him, like the Rudy Tomjonavich incident, and the guy loses a season? What if it damages his eyesight and he loses his career? Just saying, Odor knew he was going to come in hard and he made up his mind to punch him if he did long before it happened. In my mind Odor was by far the more guilty party of poor sportsmanship.
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Bautista could have avoided the punch but he was trying to be bad ass Bautista and got in the wrong guy's face. The bully is usually the one that goes down. Odor obviously wasn't going to be intimidated.
