RAYMOND and fletcher go "PAY"

[Dawg2]

Jack,
Just to clarify, when I said you were slipping, I meant in quality not quanity. What I really fail to understand is, what's the difference between Ray & Fletch & say a Jim Feist for example? They're all doing the same thing. I respect you Jack as well as Ray & Fletch but, IMO it's a bad move for all 3 of you. For your sake, hope I'm wrong. Glta

 

[fletcher]

dawg we have talked many times and you know i respect you and thank you for your imput,i am going to do my best at winning and do it fair,no-flip flops like someone said we would do i think you all should know better,if we win the people that are with us win if not then it was not ment to be if i didnot think i could win i wouldnot do this,but things that i get also cost its not free info out here.

just wanted to say respect your veiw and always will.

good luck in all

 

[Karac]

Best of luck to both Fletch and Ray.

Always looked for your picks.

On principle, i cannot ever pay someone for picks. Any real gambler will admit that 57% is all you can really hope for over the long haul. That leaves far to small a profit margin to be doling it out to someone for the plays. I do not make the same correlations to the Feist's of the world, who genuinely do not cap. I believe that Ray and Fletch will sincerely believe that the plays they are giving out are the best that day, and i am sure they will play them as well. It just can't be my money they are playing them with.

They or course have every right to go pay, make some dough. I just hope no one gets hurt in the process. I know that they are not responsible for the actions of their customers, but try telling that kid who is out too much already for the week, not to unload on the "outlaws" play sunday night. For some players, there is no "we'll get em next week" cause next week someone is looking for last week's money. Thats the bad side of deals like this.

Jack sir, you have always had and still do have, the absolute best site on the web. Flecth and Ray, best of luck again.

 

[ferdville]

What is the difference between Fletcher and Jim Feist? Where have you been the past 20 years? If you cannot see the vast chasm separating these two in integrity alone, I doubt I could explain it. But let me just toss a few things out that all will understand. I have never paid for anything Jim Feist sells, but I have watched him on television, read him in the paper, visited his web site, etc. In addition to his normal, 5*, 25*, 100* or whatever he offers on a regular basis, you can always count on:
Game of the week for every conference, league, etc
Game of the month for every conference, league, etc
Game of the year for every conference, league, etc
Dog of the week, etc., etc
Fletcher has 3 plays - 3*, 4*, 5*. There are no games of the week, month, year, decade, millenium, etc. There are no dog of the week, upset of the week, or any plays like that designed to fleece you. fletcher has, as I think I have mentioned, 3 plays. This is just one of perhaps hundreds of differences. If Feist is "Home Run" Baker, Fletcher is Barry Bonds. And that's just the tip of the iceburg.
And for those of you that would like refunds if you don't win, how long a run are you looking for? Does he have to win every day, every week, every month, every year or what? At what point does he owe a refund? Gambling in a systematic, managed manner is no different that playing the stock market. When your stock broker gives you advice that doesn't pan out, or if the percentages are not as high as he promised - ask him for a refund, too!

 

[Karac]

Ferdville,

I assume that wasn't meant for me. I said they were not like feist and explained why.

 

[Bama6895]

Ferdville,

Good post. I think you hit the nail on the head. Ray and Fletch are NO Jim Feist.

 

[wondo]

czech --

czech --

perhaps my reasoning is flawed, but i was trying to get at two points.

one, people all the time pay for things with no benefit. i do baseball instruction in the offseason and kids pay for something that has no benefit for them from an outside standpoint.... they can play or they cant play and babe ruth could come back from the dead and they still wouldnt hit. but from there standpoint, it is beneficial because it makes them a better little league player or better jv high school player.

same thing here, people may not make a fortune on these plays (for whatever reason) but it may add more enjoyment and more action for them since they may not go belly up as quick as they would on their own. if they want to pay someone for picks, or even if they just coatail someone here, they obviously dont have the talent for handicapping, so all in all, either one is a short term solution.

and when other people are talking about the small percentage of people that make money betting, either we are a completely skewed sample of the population, or a lot of people here claim to make money that they really dont. my guess is the latter, so in essence you're dealing with people that treat their gambling money as 'entertainment expense' So in order to prolong their bankroll, and thus their entertainment, they can subscribe to a service that will assist them in betting. nothing wrong with this.

there are a lot of people here (myself included) that pretty much suck at picking games or at the very best pick games and break even over the long run. that is where this service, or any legit service, could help. if you can pick games (not via consensus or coattail) on your own, more power to you and you're not a candidate for the pay service and you're not the ones being marketed to. but really there is a huge, perhaps silent, majority or group of people that would benefit from the service because, like me, they aren't very good on their own.

some people can play football, some can play the guitar, others can pick games, etc.... I buy CDs so I can listen to other people play music better than I can. I buy tickets to football games so I can watch better players than me. I might also pay for a service because they pick better games than me.

That's all I meant....

wondo

 

[buddy]

I remember reading in one of Fletcher's threads some months ago about a businessman who was paying for Fletchers plays.

The businessman was simply too busy too handicap yet loved the action and the thrill of the gamble.

For this type customer, paying for selections from a solid capper like Fletcher or Raymond makes perfect sense to me.

For some (like me), $2400 a year is a lot of money.

To others, it's merely pocket change.

 

[Dawg2]

Thanks Fletcher, I'm glad you understand my opinion on this subject in no way reflects the respect I've got for you, Ray & Jack.
Despite the fact we disagree, I really do wish you the best. Next time I'm out that way, drinks are on me.

 

[theGibber1]

Good luck guys...Ray promise youll pop in and give us those big damn parlays! i love those..Fletch good luck man thanks for the picks!! youve done more than enough for everyone here...




But,
even though i like both of you guys, im going to ruin your business. im going to give everyone your picks for the entire season, right now.................................
.....................here we go.................



















take the favorites.....................lol



good luck guys

dont be strangers

 

[RAYMOND]

MAYBE NOT :nono: DOGS CAN MAKE MONEY TOO NOW

 

[PETE]

good luck raymond and fletcher,you two have saved my a$$ lots of times. I hope everything works out with the new site.

 

[fletcher]

like i said there will be a free play each day there and as always i will have plays here,and they are plays that i play and expect to win.

i understand that this isnot for everyone nor would i twist and badger someone to sign up that is up to that person and know one else.

also i respect 99% of the people in here,and its ok if you disagreed with me on this,that is your choice and most of you did it in a very nice manner but i will be honest a few got to me and thats my fault not there's.

there is an insurence of typs but its for the daily,if we fail to show you a profit for that day you will get the next day free,and if we don't do good for the month or a couple well there is noway to give that insurence but you know what we would not be in business long and this is ment to win and win for the long run and thats the goal if the people who sign up win then we all win,and there are guied lines no more then 1.5 units will be in play per game and not 8 plays aday,so there will be good plays or at least i hope good ones posted here also.

like i said i thank most of you if you agree or disagree because not many got personal,there is no way in life where every one will agree on things if they did i wouldnot want to live in that life.

i wish the best to you all in life for you and yours and in handicapping also,even the few i let get to me deep down i wish you no ill harm to you in anyway thats not how i am,i know at times it looks like i am a demon by my actions but that is a problem i have been working on for a few years,yes i go to anger management classes one day maybe i will take control of just me and just let the other thoughts go of my way or nothing,hey i'm trying. so if i offened you and said personal things at one time or another i was wrong it's a slight flaw i have and do wish all the best even azbob,because i have been hard on him before long after it should of been over so sorry to you bob and anyone else that i came across that way.

good luck and thanks for keeping this clean and respectful discussion for the most part.

good luck
Eric

 

[yak merchant]

All I have to say is.. "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

I don't understand why people are so upset that someone is starting a business. Nobody is making you sign up for their service, and hell it's probably the first legit one in history.

Good Luck Fletcher and Raymond.

 

[TIME TO MAKE $$$]

Fletcher,

You have been and always will be a class act


Cheers

 

[dr. freeze]

hope your guys' business venture is successful and everything works out well....keep things honest and forthright and you will be okay......

 

[Gatorbait]

........thought I might chime in for a moment :moon:

I would bet ( I don't do that ) that 92% of us here, at one point or another,( probably after the last time you paid a tout ), considered or dreamed of the idea of being paid for your selections. I remember when Fly and I would get on a roll years ago and talk of the idea of creating a company and mass market our service and make bank . My point being is that I think jealousy is the driving force behind the hostility being shown here towards two guys I consider friends. These guys are gonna do exactly what a bunch, if not all of us, have thought about doing at one time or another. As long as the service is straight, what could possibly be the problem. Either these 2 guys win people money or they lose people money, but for God's sake, until these guys fail, I can't see any reason not to respect their decision. I'm not gonna pay ( unless I hear of people getting rich ), but I sure am hell gonna respect their decision and pull for them every step of the way thru the fiery battle they have ahead of them. These 2 guys have now put loads of pressure on their shoulders, as well as bags of cash , and I as well as everyone here should be pulling for them 100%!......and Madjack, you are one smart man ........you guys may want to consider giving MJ'ers with a Senior Member Status a nice little discount on the picks GL

 

[ferdville]

Amen, brother.

 

[PerpetualCzech]

wondo,

I agree with most of your post except for one part. If you can pick games on your own then why can't you still be a candidate for a tout service? You don't need to be a bad handicapper to benefit from the service ... what you need is a positive expected value for your investment, which has nothing to do with your ability to handicap games. That depends on 2 things, the size of your bets and how well the service does.

More money is better than less money. That's the whole reasoning behind them starting the site in the first place.

 

[PerpetualCzech]

dawg2,

I don't know how much experience you have with capitalism, but in any industry there is usually a large range of quality between different companies. Assuming all companies are the same is a very big mistake for a consumer.

How can you compare the qualities of Fiest vs. RAYMOND/fletcher when you aren't even a customer of theirs?