RAYMOND and fletcher go "PAY"

[Crack Rat]

Thanks, Guys! I Love You, Too!

Thanks, Guys! I Love You, Too!

Mad Jack, simmer down, will ya? Thanks for posting my picture, dude! What's that all about? Stoking the fire, I see?

BobbyCowChip, LMFAO@U! What you "know" about me can fill a thimble! Bwahahahahahaha! NUFF SAID, CLOWNBOY!

DDUBBS --> again, FOAD! :fingerc:

This place is the BEST posting forum on the Net, bar none! Thanks for all the "love," guys! :kiss:

OK, you can now resume your wholesale bashing of me! You really hurt my feelings with all your bashes!

Boo hoo! Cry me a river! :violin:

You bore me!

 

[RAYMOND]

IF NOBODY SAY THAT THEY LOVE YOU TODAY I DO
LIVE AND LET LIVE

 

[PerpetualCzech]

I agree with Jack that a good selling point for any site selling picks would be some kind of refund policy. If you are good as you say then it shouldn't be triggered and it can only increase sales, so there is little risk.

2 other points that come to mind while reading this thread:

1. Those that are trying to analyze whether it is worth it to pay for winning picks are being (maybe on purpose) totally narrowminded. If you play $10 a game it's not worth it, if you play 2 dimes a game then it is. The math is not difficult.

2. I've never understood the argument "if you were that good with your picks then why do you need to sell them?" If you sell them then you are making more money then if you didn't - it's not hard to understand the motivation of someone wanting to do this. Those that make this argument probably aren't as successful in life as they could be.

 

[Big Daddy]

I normally don't get involved in these types of threads, but I wanted to express my thoughts on this one. I have been reading everyone's responses, and I think there is one thing we are missing here. First of all, no disrespect intended to anyone, but I am seeing a lot of things like "we are losing 2 great cappers", "you will be missed", etc. etc.... I may be wrong, but I have yet to see where Ray, Fletch, or Jack has said they are leaving Madjacks. I firmly believe they will continue to post plays here, just not all of them. If you want them all, you will have to subscribe. These guys are not dumb. They are very good businessmen. What better way to attract new customers that to post a few winners here occasionally? And trust me, they will be top plays when they do post here. The best advertising they can do is to show some samples of their work. Ray & Fletch, best of luck in your new venture, and look forward to continue seeing you guys here at Madjacks.

 

[PerpetualCzech]

Those that get all worked up about provocative posters might like to read a recent quote from rec.gambing.poker:

"The problem with reactions is that they bring attention to the
original
misdeed. I've found that the best strategy to employ against slanderers
or
anonymous attackers of any stripe is usually to ignore them and let
their
nonsense drift away into forgotten nothingness."

The only advice I'd like to add is to just put yourself in the shoes of someone who posts like this and try to imagine how they would react if their posts had absolutely zero reaction on the forum. I think most would agree that they would go away after a while.

 

[Crack Rat]

Thanks, Raymond!

Thanks, Raymond!

Thanks, BIG MAN, for brightening up my day!

You are indeed a CLASS ACT, and I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your new venture!

The peeps here who are hellbent on slamming me 24/7, well, they can KISS MY ARSE! :moon:

 

[SmashMouth]

I for one have made money following these guys, and will miss their picks. I wish them both well, and only wish my capping was good enough to get people to pay for it. God bless. and thanks.

 

[barfly]

Re: Thanks, Raymond!

Re: Thanks, Raymond!

The peeps here who are hellbent on slamming me 24/7, well, they can KISS MY ARSE! :moon:

Oh, so let me understand this... It's OK for you to bash people, but it's not alright for others to bash you. And BTW, I thought you were a low life scumbag when I met you in Vegas, and you have done nothing since to change my opinion.

Jack, I've got one question..... Why the f u c k is this ass still allowed to post? The last time I checked, this site was a place to exchange ideas relating to sports & gambling. Please, someone refer me to a post where Crackie's ramblings had something to do with what this site was intended for.


Although I don't agree with pay services, I consider Fletch & Ray to be friends and I wish them the greatest success in their new venture. Best of luck guys. Give'm hell!!

 

[wondo]

You guys must be in some interesting lines of work.... all of you that feel they should offer refunds. WTF. You're paying for a service; the time they put into researching the games.

Only 3% of guys drafted into baseball make the bigs, But how many of you still pay money for instruction and leagues and what not for your sons? Do you ask for a refund because you or your kid didn't get drafted, or didn't make it to the show? Of course not, it would be an absurd statement.

Things are transient. It's nice to have a little bit of fortune and be able to copy a guy's plays without paying for them, but how does that turn into that person owing you? I must have missed a step somewhere.

You don't pay for anything here at MadJacks, so I would say anything that you take from this site is a complete bonus.

Let the people make a living. If you want to pay for the picks, fine. If you don't, fine. But stop making excuses for yourself and bashing people's character for trying to earn a living.

And for those of you who are so entirely righteous, and want everything to be free and whatnot, send me some goddang money so I can start donating my services to everyone in the community, and still have food on the table!

 

[MadJack]

Why the f u c k is this ass still allowed to post?

just trying to be as lenient as possible with ALL posters'. but, he's definitely wearing out his welcome.

 

[Crack Rat]

LMFAO@ Barfly!

LMFAO@ Barfly!

Barfly:

Scumbag? Look in the mirror, a-hole!

The moment I saw you in LV, [edit] I KNEW AT THAT MOMENT YOU WERE AN INSIGNIFICANT PIECE OF FECAL MATTER! What kind of MORON let's a friend do that? You're the lowest of the pondscum to let him do that! :nono:

You pencilneck geek, I'd bounce you like a superball if you were here! GUARANTEED!

Go buzz around and land on a pile of dung like the fly you are! YOU MUST BE HUNGRY!

 

[ddubs]

Come on , Jack! Enough is enough. Get this joker out of here.

 

[MadJack]

he just wore his welcome out.

*****poof*****

he's gone!

 

[Juice]

I see a lot of "I'll miss you two fine cappers" and not too much of "where do I sign up".

It says a lot about where people strand on tout services.

 

[Dawg2]

Wasn't gonna get in this but, Jack come on man you gotta admit you've done a 360 here. I was here in the days when you made fun of & banned all pay site post, now you're touting 1. It seems also that you're quick to ban anybody who disagrees with what's happening. You used to be number one Jack but, you're falling fast & only have yourself to blame. In the past year this site has become a haven for people starting pay sites. Who's next, Roger?

 

[PerpetualCzech]

wondo,

Your reasoning is twisted to suit your opinion. Any time you purchase a product or a service and you do not receive what was advertised you can usually go back to the company you purchased it from and make a claim for compensation.

The reason why you're not entitled to a refund for your minor league son is because the league never promised he would make the big leagues in the first place.

 

[MadJack]

I wasn't planning on answering anymore posts pertaining to this, but what the hell.

Wasn't gonna get in this but, Jack come on man you gotta admit you've done a 360 here.

no, i don't think so.

I was here in the days when you made fun of & banned all pay site post, now you're touting 1.

I'll still ban people touting their sites because we have the no advertising policy. I did, however, decide to take advertising money from sites that want to buy banner advertising. They STILL won't be permitted to post their link on the forums. So, as far as touting and posting links on the forum, nothing has changed at all. there is LESS of that here than anywhere else. I have HUGE overhead now and somebody has to pay the bills. Why not sportsbooks and handicappers?

It seems also that you're quick to ban anybody who disagrees with what's happening.

I haven't banned anybody that didn't deserve it. I try my best to run a clean forum and I won't allow somebody to disrupt it. There are quite a few people here that disagree with 'pay' services and they haven't been banned.

You used to be number one Jack but, you're falling fast & only have yourself to blame.

there are more people viewing this site than ever before. already in march we have used over 150 gigs of bandwidth. there isn't another site out there, in our category, that gets more traffic. none! vegas insider gets more but they're HUGE and have been HUGE for a long time. there are several thousand new visitors every week and most people that visit once, return again. it may be going down in your eyes, but nobody is forcing you to buy anything or gamble on anything, so i don't see the problem. i try my best and give 1000% to try and make people happy and give people what they want. i even spend my own money for contests and to give away tee-shirts and hours of my time helping people get the information they are looking for. you should see my email box everyday. i work my ass off in here and try to make it the best there is. sorry, if you see it differently.

In the past year this site has become a haven for people starting pay sites.

people (other site owners and handicappers) try to come here and get free advertising. i do my best to deny them. this site is big and it's the perfect target for other sites to gain recognition, but i won't let it happen. many, many, MOST other sites have the handicappers plastered all over their sites. a lot of sites even allow the handicappers post links on their forums. THIS site has LESS of that than any other. don't know what you're talking about. this site is more closely monitored than any other i know of.

all i can do is try.

good luck!

 

[bigbucksfan]

do i get a shot?

do i get a shot?

anytime i have ever criticized an established "icon" it has been generally an opportunity for those who have either senority or a relationship with those who were criticized to chastise me. i have no problem with those individuals. however, i still believe a public forum should be an avenue for people to vent their frustrations and opinions, so long as they are done with a modicum of integrity. unfortunately, that does not always happen here and that is unfortunate.

all who post here have the right to sell their selections. why fight it. you, the consumer choose whether you want tp plunk down money on the literally hundreds of handicappers out there with bankrolls that may be larger than fletcher or raymond. they will sink or swim based on their own marketing techniques and won/lost record. we shall see.

leave them be; they may even resurface here with another assumed moniker. at the same time, let people have an opportunity to voice their opinion (as long as it is not vulgar).

for me personally, i see no value in buying picks from anyone, especially from raymond, who in any given week might offer up plays based on units, outlaws, big, very big, small, lock and load, or even games not rated. but that's just me. you decide for yourself.

 

[Phanatic]

LMMFAO :thefinger

 

[Bama6895]

My Goodness

I have only posted to wish Ray and Fletch best of luck but now I will add a little more.

People are going to disagree on this subject no matter what anyone says. But there are some things that will not change.

-- MJ is still a free sight to exchange information. That has not changed and it will not. We still are able to discuss the games and share picks. Ray and Fletch are great but they are not the only people here.

--MJ is simply providing the domain name and allowing banner space. You do not have to click on the banner if you do not want to. This is not like the last time when you open the forum and see 3 pay pick areas. Of course I was not opposed to that either.

--MJ getting involved with this is not bad. Is it not ok to allow a pay service to advertise here when MJ knows the guys himself? This is not a situation where some unknown comes asking for space and he is one of your tradtional pay people. In my opinion there is a big difference between traditional pay people (Jim Feist) and Ray and Fletch.

--If Ray and Fletch want to start a pay service what is wrong with that? They have solid picks and if they chose to charge for that then there should not be a problem with that. It is the entroponeural spirit in my opinion.

In short I do not see a problem with it. I understand people will disagree on this issue and that is fine. But this is getting out of hand.

Please lets get onto more important issues such as:

-handicapping games
-posting picks of games
-sharing news information
-posting pictures of hot chicks

Thanks everyone for letting me share my opinion and Ray and Fletch the best of luck.

P.S. I assume that Ray and Fletch will still post some picks here in the forum. Fletch has been involved with a pay service and he still posted picks up here.