Shootings threads all moved here. I screwed up. lol

Wineguy

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I guess you get asked to show your ID way more than most. I have never other than two speeding tickets. Maybe you have been in warranted situations to be asked to show it than most???. Maybe it is a game for you to prove you don't have to show it???? Who knows. You sure are pretty strong willed about it though. I have been to lots of baseball games and walked in my neighborhood hundreds of times without being asked for my id out of the blue. Would be a good question for the forum to see how many others have felt violated by a cop asking for their ID other than a traffic stop. You might be the winner. :0008
 

CryBoy

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I honestly don't get it. What is so hard about providing an ID? Besides the cops, I still get asked once in awhile by a cashier when purchasing alcohol. I'm 50 years old. I don't know what my rights are in a grocery market, but I sure the hell didn't throw a fit.
 

fatdaddycool

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What's a warranted situation? Are you insinuating again I had something to hide?

I've never had a warrant for my arrest.

A game? For me? Because I don't allow someone to violate my civil rights, I'm playing a game? My civil rights aren't a game. Good grief, I don't feel like I'm being violated and never said anything of the sort. The cop asking is a real life VIOLATION of the constitution which has been upheld by the supreme court.

Chuck, it is ILLEGAL, I REPEAT, ILLEGAL, for police demand identification or detain you without cause. I don't feel violated okay, I'm just not going to let someone break the law and violate the constitution without so much as a whimper. I'm not going to turn a blind eye to any lawlessness simply because I'm scared they might be a dick. I'm not going to let them walk into my home without cause, kick my dog without cause or fingerbang my sister or anything else when it's frigging illegal to do so.


Yes, you're correct I am extremely spirited when it comes to my rights, just because you don't care about them or maybe unaware of them, doesn't mean I'm a criminal.

I could not give any less of a fuck about anyone else having been asked for their i.d., that's their business not mine.

Maybe the issue is you aren't black and poor, so you have zero comprehension or compassion for the plight of those that are. We call it white privelege. Just because you haven't personally experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


And dude, the little snide remarks aren't necessary and please don't make it worse by insulting my intelligence by denying them or their intent. I didn't do it to you.


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fatdaddycool

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I honestly don't get it. What is so hard about providing an ID? Besides the cops, I still get asked once in awhile by a cashier when purchasing alcohol. I'm 50 years old. I don't know what my rights are in a grocery market, but I sure the hell didn't throw a fit.
What is so hard about expecting public servants who's sole duty is to protect and serve the citizenship and uphold the laws of the land, not knowingly violate the laws and liberties they're sworn by oath and duty to uphold.
Wouldn't it be far easier to tell police they have to obey the law line everyone else?
Would you be okay letting police question a four year old without anyone present? What's the harm, they have nothing to hide right?

What's more difficult to understand is how willing people are to be controlled.

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Skulnik

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Shocker! It Looks Like the Media May Have Bought a False Narrative in Philando Castile Shooting


by John Ziegler | 5:02 pm, July 11th, 2016

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castileIf there is one thing I?ve learned about media firestorms in the modern age of one-hour news cycles and 15-second attention spans, it?s that whoever tells the first story which the news media likes is the ?winner.? Once the narrative is set in stone (when the news media works in unison that takes about two days, tops), the truth will face a battle that is severely uphill, into the wind, on ice, and will almost never prevail.

There was no better example of this sad reality than the ?Hands Up! Don?t Shoot!? myth which drove the entire Ferguson fiasco and was the origin of the entire ?Black Lives Matter? movement. Every investigation into the matter (including by the Obama administration) later concluded, against self-interest, that this catchphrase was based on an obvious and despicable lie. However, even that did almost nothing to alter public perceptions of that event or the media?s eagerness to give instant credibility to similar claims from the same groups in the future.

Since then we have seen other racially-charged situations where the initial narrative pitched by protest groups and embraced by the news media have fallen apart under greater scrutiny. The most outrageous among them seems to be the Freddie Gray case in Baltimore, where it now appears that a prosecutor condemned police without nearly enough evidence (or even a coherent theory) to get any convictions, even after the city had already rioted and paid Grey?s family a huge settlement.

This leads us to the two incidents which have suddenly reignited the issue of police shootings of black men and which appears to have inspired a black man to assassinate five innocent Dallas police officers and injure several others.

The horrific killing of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge was caught on tape by multiple sources and certainly looks to be unjustified (though why can?t we wait long enough to let an actual investigation decide that for sure?). I completely get the anger and outrage over it. But make no mistake, without it being immediately followed by the shooting of Philando Castile in Minnesota, I seriously doubt that we would have seen the chain of explosive events which have followed.

One episode can be an aberration. Two on top of one another, both with unprecedented video components, is just too much for the protestors and the media to resist turning into a trend. (Though, what exactly is the theory of the Black Lives Matter protestors? That a nationwide memo went out to police saying that it was time to start killing innocent black men again?!)

But what if the second episode wasn?t anything like what we were told it was? Regardless, of how much the news media will try to ignore it, in Minnesota we are seeing all the markings of a largely false narrative that may very well not hold up under reasonable inspection.

Thanks to the incredibly dramatic live ?broadcast? of Castile?s death on Facebook, an already emotionally-charged issue has become one where there is extreme hesitancy to even publicly question the narrative which it helped birth. This version of events was further legitimized when the white, male, liberal governor of Minnesota immediately and shamefully declared, very much in his own self-interest, that race was what provoked the killing.

The media?s narrative is based on the notion that a routine traffic stop led to a black man being shot multiple times and killed, seemingly with a woman and child in the car with him. There was a gun in the car, but we are told by the woman that Castile explained that he had a permit to carry such a weapon (though there has been no clear confirmation that such a permit existed).

However, it is now obvious from audio recordings of the police scanner that the police officer (who, for whatever it is worth, is not ?white?) pulled Castile over, not due to a broken tail light, but because he thought Castile matched the description of an armed robbery suspect. This obviously sheds a completely different light on the possible scenarios which led to the officer firing his weapon and, had it been known immediately, very well would have radically shifted the storyline and staved off a universal rush to judgement (and maybe even the Dallas attacks?).

The question of whether Castile actually WAS the suspect in the armed robbery, partly due to the media?s best efforts to pretend that he wasn?t, is less clear (obviously this wouldn?t alter the police officer?s mindset, but certainly might Castile?s).

Based on security photos, Castile indeed does meet the general description of the suspect but they are hardly definitive. More interestingly (though still not at all conclusive) is that the suspect?s shoes appear similar to those worn by Castile in a Facebook posting and his girlfriend is on video smoking the very brand of cigarettes that were stolen in the robbery in question. But to me, the best ?evidence? that Castile might have been the actual suspect is that, despite the photos now getting huge amounts of publicity, the ?real? suspect has still yet to be identified.

Again, none of this remotely proves that Castile was indeed the armed robbery suspect. The point is that there is a potentially very compelling other side of this story which is being ignored or ridiculed by the media which is already very invested in the current narrative.

One of the best examples of this is the ?fact check? website ?Snopes,? which, in its typically arrogant and liberal fashion, has definitely declared these ?rumors? about Castile to be ?false,? while actually doing a pretty good job of establishing that they might actually be true (while also ignoring the significance of what we now know was in the police officer?s mindset). A close reading of their conclusions could best be summed up by saying: ?We want this story to be false, so, because it hasn?t yet be proven 100% true by liberal media sources with no incentive to do so, it must be false.?

I have seen many times the power of what happens to media coverage once every new fact is seen through the prism of a false narrative and is impacted by a clear confirmation bias. Everything is then perceived completely differently than it should be, sometimes laughably so. I have literally never seen a more overt example of this frustrating phenomenon than this absurd headline in an Associated Press story about the revelation that Castile had been previously stopped by police an incredible 52 times with 86 citations.

Clearly, in the media?s collective mind, no matter what we find out about Castile, it is going to be portrayed as the fault of the police. That might make for a good story and alleviate any fears of having rushed to an erroneous and destructive conclusion, but that is not the way to get to the truth of this matter.

That still is important, isn?t it?

UPDATE: Castile?s girlfriend, Diamond Reynolds, has now given an interview, with her attorney, to ABC News, in which she seems to radically alter her story about the gun in the car. In her original version she indicated: ?As he?s reaching for his back pocket wallet he lets the officer know, ?Officer, I have a firearm on me.? I begin to yell, ?But he?s licensed to carry.'? However, in this interview (in which somehow ABC fails to note the dramatic discrepancy) she says: ?[The gun] never came out. It could never be a threat. [Yanez] didn?t ask about it,? she said. ?He didn?t know it was on his person.?

? ?

John Ziegler is a nationally-syndicated radio talk show host and documentary filmmaker. You can follow him on Twitter at @ZigManFreud.
 

Skulnik

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Fucking SNOPES




One of the best examples of this is the ?fact check? website ?Snopes,? which, in its typically arrogant and liberal fashion, has definitely declared these ?rumors? about Castile to be ?false,? while actually doing a pretty good job of establishing that they might actually be true (while also ignoring the significance of what we now know was in the police officer?s mindset). A close reading of their conclusions could best be summed up by saying: ?We want this story to be false, so, because it hasn?t yet be proven 100% true by liberal media sources with no incentive to do so, it must be false.?
 

fatdaddycool

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Fucking SNOPES




One of the best examples of this is the ?fact check? website ?Snopes,? which, in its typically arrogant and liberal fashion, has definitely declared these ?rumors? about Castile to be ?false,? while actually doing a pretty good job of establishing that they might actually be true (while also ignoring the significance of what we now know was in the police officer?s mindset). A close reading of their conclusions could best be summed up by saying: ?We want this story to be false, so, because it hasn?t yet be proven 100% true by liberal media sources with no incentive to do so, it must be false.?

This isn't the political forum. This is the general.

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StevieD

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Very interesting conversation. Today this is all about race. In the 70's cops would give "hippies" or anyone with long hair a hard time. I know this because my father in law was a cop, and would often say how they took their time or gave this guy a hard time because of the way he looked. I had the long hair back then and much of what he was saying was meant to get a rise out of me.
This was in the time of Vietnam and most cops hated protesters.

Another thing I find interesting is that we are seeing reports that cops are killing more whites that blacks. But these incidents do not receive the coverage that the black deaths do. I just find that interesting.

By the way if I am speeding and cop pulls me over I am very polite. Not sure how I would act if I was walking down the street and he asked me for my id for no reason.
 

Sportsaholic

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I guess it's a totally different world up here in Maine......Very few Police shootings (can't remember when race ever came into play in one) most of the headlines/talk revolve around NY/Mass Drug Dealers being caught and arrested or Welfare Fraud.....Over the last we saw many stories supporting the police and thanking them for their service and helping keep the communities safe.....Though not a ratings grabber maybe Fox/CNN can take a page from this every now and then instead of stirring the pot every night.....:0008

There were a few protests in the larger Maine cities last week with a few people yelling and screaming about rights but not one of them doing anything positive or giving a solution.....It seemed they were more interested in trying to incite people rather than actually bringing awareness to the issues.... mostly the "youtube/liveleak generation looking for their 15 mins of fame imo......


Until the Top Brass steps up and tries to unite all, shit will continue to happen......:0008
 

MadJack

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By the way if I am speeding and cop pulls me over I am very polite. Not sure how I would act if I was walking down the street and he asked me for my id for no reason.

That has never happened to me. Ever.

If I am getting pulled over, I have my license and registration in my hand and out the window before he even gets to my car. They like that. They like polite and respect as well. Many more times than not, I usually get a warning because they like me.
 

Wineguy

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What's a warranted situation? Are you insinuating again I had something to hide?

I've never had a warrant for my arrest.

A game? For me? Because I don't allow someone to violate my civil rights, I'm playing a game? My civil rights aren't a game. Good grief, I don't feel like I'm being violated and never said anything of the sort. The cop asking is a real life VIOLATION of the constitution which has been upheld by the supreme court.

Chuck, it is ILLEGAL, I REPEAT, ILLEGAL, for police demand identification or detain you without cause. I don't feel violated okay, I'm just not going to let someone break the law and violate the constitution without so much as a whimper. I'm not going to turn a blind eye to any lawlessness simply because I'm scared they might be a dick. I'm not going to let them walk into my home without cause, kick my dog without cause or fingerbang my sister or anything else when it's frigging illegal to do so.


Yes, you're correct I am extremely spirited when it comes to my rights, just because you don't care about them or maybe unaware of them, doesn't mean I'm a criminal.

I could not give any less of a fuck about anyone else having been asked for their i.d., that's their business not mine.

Maybe the issue is you aren't black and poor, so you have zero comprehension or compassion for the plight of those that are. We call it white privelege. Just because you haven't personally experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


And dude, the little snide remarks aren't necessary and please don't make it worse by insulting my intelligence by denying them or their intent. I didn't do it to you.


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duh!!! To your first comment, who would allow it? You are insulting everyone on this forum's intelligence. But showing your ID, we agree to disagree.

On the second comment, insulting of intelligence once again trying to say maybe I don't care about my rights or don't know them. Again, showing an ID we agree to disagree.

Third comment. What does this subject have to do with showing my ID we were discussing?????? You do not know me whatsoever nor what I do in the Atlanta area to help. I bought a home in Grant Park in 1999 when I wanted to fix it up for a rental property and lived there for 5 years instead in the middle of it all. Still have it and still renting it, still know the homeless in the area and still help them whenever I can, getting them to rake leaves and overpaying, pick up trash on the block I own on that others leave, and overpay once a month for them to do so. So, MAYBE YOU are wrong on this comment. Oh, then again, I truly think that you think the rest of us do not live up to your way of thinking, and so be it. I am a Republican (shock and dismay, I know). But I am socially very in the middle. Do not challenge that again.

Lastly, they were not snide remarks, I meant them. You TRULY have been asked to show your ID more than me, and probably most others here. You have already mentioned two more than I have, so you win. I stated what I though with no malice meant. Sorry you took it wrong. BUT, mentioning in the same last sentence to not insult your intelligence? Sheesh, pot calling the kettle black. See comments one and two above I referenced that you wrote. I get it now why people get frustrated communicating with you on this forum. Like right now, I am asking myself, "why did I even say a thing??"

Like I said, I am not political, and I am done taking anymore of my time on showing ID subject. I also am not going to visit the politic forum either. I will leave that to you to set everyone straight with your thinking. And if you try to correct me with something I said here, we can just say that you win, because I am done.

Again, have fun at the ballgame with hedgehog this fall, and be sure you have your ID to show. Now THAT, Cris, is a snide remark. And I say it lovingly. :toast:
 

Redhog

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I'm going to guess that FDC has an underlying cause for his actions/words of wisdom on this subject. Obvious has issue with authority. But there's a reason for that. Care to share??

:0corn
 

ChrryBlstr

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Pause. Read. Reflect.

"What does it mean, for instance, that black children are ritually told that any stray movement in the face of the police might result in their own legal killing? When Eric Holder spoke about getting 'The Talk' from his father, and then giving it to his own son, many of us nodded our heads. But many more of us were terrified. When the nation?s top cop must warn his children to be skeptical of his own troops, how legitimate can the police actually be?"

Peace! :)
 

buddy

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fatdaddycool

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I'm going to guess that FDC has an underlying cause for his actions/words of wisdom on this subject. Obvious has issue with authority. But there's a reason for that. Care to share??

:0corn
Chuck,
I didn't mean you didn't care about the poor or homeless. I was only staying that it is impossible for any white human being too fully understand what a poor black human being goes through. Nothing more.

Hedge isn't going to the game.

I don't care that people are republican, unless they demean or diminish me because I'm not.


Cheers man, I meant no ill will man.


To Redhog and whomever,
I work with police every single week with the various responsibilities I have working with animal shelters. I know the majority of those officers serving my district and the county sheriff's department. I've met and had several nice discussions with the sheriff and police chief of both Dallas and Fort Worth. The Chief in FTW I see every month as he attends the same masonic lodge as I do. I have been lucky enough to work with several in their k-9 and equine training departments for years. I have nothing against law enforcement and regularly shake the hand or thank any officer I see, as long as I'm not interfering with the performance of their duties of course. I've had the exact same discussion with several of them. I'll tell you that both Chiefs absolutely agree they wouldn't surrender their identification without cause either, because it's unlawful to ask. They believe in the protection of our basic civil rights and liberties. I am not saying that surrendering your i.d. isn't your choice or that your a bad person in doing so. What I am saying is that it is very wrong, very callous and very dismissive to say that a person that was just shot to death would be alive if he'd have just complied with the officers orders and done everything they said. To me, that's an incredibly fucked up statement. To say that a citizen should have to give up their civil rights and obey an unlawful order to keep from being killed by the one organization who's sole mission is to protect and serve the citizenship by any means necessary is just wrong. To release sealed juvenile records of a dead kid so people will label him a thug and public opinions will turn against, just to deflect the heat off themselves, before they even release the officer's names...........I think it's fucked up and wrong. That is somebody's son, father, brother, best friend and he's going in the fucking ground now forever and that's the limit of compassion he and his family get?

That's just not how I roll and not even close to how I want to be as a person and human being. I'm brash, loud, opinionated, and plenty more adjectives I'm sure, but I've got some good qualities as well and try very hard to be a considerate, loyal, and compassionate person. It doesn't always work as I'm human and flawed just like every other human being. If that's an underlying agenda then so be it.

Hope this helps,
FDC

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Scrapman

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I comply except when asked to search my car i seriusly question any cop why you need to serach my car for a traffic stop.

I do not smoke or drink or do drugs except for my diabetes meds which at times i carry with me to take second dose.

There fore sorry officer i will not allow you to serach my vehicle for a traffic stop and telling me my back right brake light is out ........ i will fix it 1st thing in morning or maybe walmart has the right bulb and i go there now .

COPS find something they think is contraband or a weapon even which any toll can be become if used to strike anyone----- a 5 lb claw hammer is deadly

DO NOT ALLOW COPS TO SEARCH
 

mosco

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What is so hard about expecting public servants who's sole duty is to protect and serve the citizenship and uphold the laws of the land, not knowingly violate the laws and liberties they're sworn by oath and duty to uphold.
Wouldn't it be far easier to tell police they have to obey the law line everyone else?
Would you be okay letting police question a four year old without anyone present? What's the harm, they have nothing to hide right?

What's more difficult to understand is how willing people are to be controlled.

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The Police shooting anyone whether black or white, tantamount to a dog eating the bone hung on its neck, a dereliction of duty, man's inhumanity to man and abuse of office with impunity.
 
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