I'm really curious to investigate one theme that I've heard many times but have never really understood. Some people claim that they would never pay for picks "on principle" but I've never really heard them explain this principle. For those that share this view, can you elaborate on this a bit?
Those that will not pay a tout ... why?
- Thread starter PerpetualCzech
- Start date
The principle that if you want to be successful long term handicapping, it takes hard work and discipline. Paying someone to do the work for you is counterproductive to that idea.
I am not saying that all services are bad. There are some folks who have no desire to do the work required to make money gambling but they are addicted gamblers and for those people, paying someone for picks to get the action they crave can work. But that is like putting a band-aid on cancer in that paying for picks is only a short term solution and it doesn't solve the greater problem.
Of course I wish the best to Ray and fletch as I consider both friends and I think both are stand up guys. I am just pointing out that when I say I wouldn't pay based on principle, this is what I mean.
I am not saying that all services are bad. There are some folks who have no desire to do the work required to make money gambling but they are addicted gamblers and for those people, paying someone for picks to get the action they crave can work. But that is like putting a band-aid on cancer in that paying for picks is only a short term solution and it doesn't solve the greater problem.
Of course I wish the best to Ray and fletch as I consider both friends and I think both are stand up guys. I am just pointing out that when I say I wouldn't pay based on principle, this is what I mean.
Because it is something that is not worth paying for. Look who represents the industry: Stu Feiner, Kevin Duffy, Jim Feist, Wayne Root, Jeff Allen, etc, etc, etc. All a bunch of coin flipping guessers. They have no inside information, and they are simply followers of obsolete, meaningless trends, or coin flippers.
Some of the best things in life are free, and that includes sports handicapping. I won't pay for someone to mow my lawn, or walk my dog, or decorate my house, or drive me to work, or babysit my kids, etc.
I don't have anything personally against fletcher and RAYMOND other than their illiteracy
, but they are chalk players. Why would a person need to pay out 600 bucks a month for that service to be told to take the biggest chalks on the board every day?? That's just beyond me! I honestly laugh when I see the picks they post in moneyline sports like MLB and NHL. Fletcher's reply would be, "that's why u have a 40 hour grind and I don't!" That might be the case, but personally, I don't gamble for a living and I don't ever want to! I go to my job, work hard, then come home and don't think about it! I'm happier and healthier for that very reason. I wouldn't think the life expectancy of a pro handicapper to be more than 55-60 years. I can't think of many things that would be more stressful. However, if people want to pay them, more power to them. That's capitalism. I just won't ever do it.
Some of the best things in life are free, and that includes sports handicapping. I won't pay for someone to mow my lawn, or walk my dog, or decorate my house, or drive me to work, or babysit my kids, etc.
I don't have anything personally against fletcher and RAYMOND other than their illiteracy
, but they are chalk players. Why would a person need to pay out 600 bucks a month for that service to be told to take the biggest chalks on the board every day?? That's just beyond me! I honestly laugh when I see the picks they post in moneyline sports like MLB and NHL. Fletcher's reply would be, "that's why u have a 40 hour grind and I don't!" That might be the case, but personally, I don't gamble for a living and I don't ever want to! I go to my job, work hard, then come home and don't think about it! I'm happier and healthier for that very reason. I wouldn't think the life expectancy of a pro handicapper to be more than 55-60 years. I can't think of many things that would be more stressful. However, if people want to pay them, more power to them. That's capitalism. I just won't ever do it.
Some of what folks pay for. Many end up being same free one's posted by other folks here. What you would not get is. Take Fletcher some of what he gives to his service players he does not give out here. Others may but unless you have his service you don't know witch ones. So what extra would you get from Fletch. I don't take his service. But I believe Fletch will give you reasons to make the play and instructions on what level to play. Say 3/4 or 5 stars maybe a 6 star if something special comes up. So the plays you get free maybe the same from many players. But the way to do it can be very differant. You have to decide if thats important to you. If you follow Fletch he will give out many free plays each day. Fletch has a differant approch in trying to help as many folks as he can. Some services just give out aplay each day. In the service industry thats call baiting the hook. They are hopeing for good results. You see this in many of there ad's. Call this number each day for our free play of the day. Try us see how good we are. Most never see over 52% year after year. But here again don't let that fool you. You can make money on the unit method even averaging less then that. That can be where a Fletcher might be more help then others just offering picks.
CZECH, O.K. I went into my "REAL GOOD SHIT" ...
NOV.18th,1991 copy of Sports Illustrated
Don't know your age or if you read this , But I keep this one to remind me about the 'Pays".
Great 13 page article by Rick Reilly..
I wish I could go through the article in detail,but it names ALL THE USUAL SUSPECTS- the assholes !!!!!!!!!!
One quick one,a guy calls the touts up on Monday as they went 0-6 on Sunday,the poor guy is crying begging for THE WINNER...
Mike Warren Sports answers and they put the poor bastard on hold( and have a little laugh). Mike is there and he says" well, The Vikes are playing and my mother likes Purple,so give the sap the Vikes. Sure enough ,you know what happened !!!!
Here are some great quotes:
Setting up a service takes a couple of thousand dollars,tops,and NO license.
DeMarco will make you wish Alexander Graham Bell had never even been born.
Abusing a customer, at no additional charge, is SOP among sports advisers.
Unfortunately,some say,most of the monitors are as crooked as the touts.
Not only is the fox watching the henhouse,but he answers the hens' phone.
"Now (name of person),Listen carefully.Our inside sources have tipped us off to this game.WE KNOW THE WINNER.It's the kind of game I can't even talk about over the phone. Even my SMALL players are playing this game BIG."
Once a call on a 900 number you can't get your'no charge' $$ back,we all know that. Once you place the 900 # call,you get billed,that's it..
These guys never stop ,they have a bunch of tape recordings and there is GREAT shit ..They signed up with Old Stu Feiner for a 4 week period::: Sept.7th through Sept. 29th..
They only played $100 per unit(very reasonable I think )
Guess how they did ????? 19-32, 32% Bankroll -$6210
Wish I could get the entire article on here for you, but I don't know how to 'scan' at all and my son has tried to put my car pics. on but he can't do it .
This was a GREAT Issue,featured 'Magic' Johnson on the cover flashing a little running hook shot, this is one I keep having to tape the cover back on as I read it so often--- a REAL freekin keeper.....
MAKE this clear though!!! I would NEVER say our friends here would do this crap, I HONESTLY feel they don't need to operate like the "Scamsters" do !!!!Fletch and Ray are not that 'type' of F U C H E R .....So be carefull out there....
Hope you enjoy some of the input,good luck ....Spanky......
NOV.18th,1991 copy of Sports Illustrated
Don't know your age or if you read this , But I keep this one to remind me about the 'Pays".
Great 13 page article by Rick Reilly..
I wish I could go through the article in detail,but it names ALL THE USUAL SUSPECTS- the assholes !!!!!!!!!!
One quick one,a guy calls the touts up on Monday as they went 0-6 on Sunday,the poor guy is crying begging for THE WINNER...
Mike Warren Sports answers and they put the poor bastard on hold( and have a little laugh). Mike is there and he says" well, The Vikes are playing and my mother likes Purple,so give the sap the Vikes. Sure enough ,you know what happened !!!!
Here are some great quotes:
Setting up a service takes a couple of thousand dollars,tops,and NO license.
DeMarco will make you wish Alexander Graham Bell had never even been born.
Abusing a customer, at no additional charge, is SOP among sports advisers.
Unfortunately,some say,most of the monitors are as crooked as the touts.
Not only is the fox watching the henhouse,but he answers the hens' phone.
"Now (name of person),Listen carefully.Our inside sources have tipped us off to this game.WE KNOW THE WINNER.It's the kind of game I can't even talk about over the phone. Even my SMALL players are playing this game BIG."
Once a call on a 900 number you can't get your'no charge' $$ back,we all know that. Once you place the 900 # call,you get billed,that's it..
These guys never stop ,they have a bunch of tape recordings and there is GREAT shit ..They signed up with Old Stu Feiner for a 4 week period::: Sept.7th through Sept. 29th..
They only played $100 per unit(very reasonable I think )
Guess how they did ????? 19-32, 32% Bankroll -$6210
Wish I could get the entire article on here for you, but I don't know how to 'scan' at all and my son has tried to put my car pics. on but he can't do it .
This was a GREAT Issue,featured 'Magic' Johnson on the cover flashing a little running hook shot, this is one I keep having to tape the cover back on as I read it so often--- a REAL freekin keeper.....
MAKE this clear though!!! I would NEVER say our friends here would do this crap, I HONESTLY feel they don't need to operate like the "Scamsters" do !!!!Fletch and Ray are not that 'type' of F U C H E R .....So be carefull out there....
Hope you enjoy some of the input,good luck ....Spanky......
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far from illiterate 6-5 have my ms. in occupational therapy from university of florida,just spell poor.
another case of where you are wrong and spoke without knowing facts.
another case of where you are wrong and spoke without knowing facts.
oh ok,then i guess him being from ky makes him an inbred
not the first cheap shot from him in a year.
not the first cheap shot from him in a year.
Nick,
Thanks for the elaboration. This is what I don't understand and was the main motivation for posting the thread: why is it difficult for most to see that doing your own handicapping AND paying someone else to do some extra work can happen at the same time??
Like I said in another post, more money is better than less money. If you have the extra bankroll and if the service is trustworthy (2 very big ifs to be sure) then I think it's a mistake to pass up the opportunity.
Maybe our goals are different. You said "if your goal is to be a successful handicapper" so from that point of view I 100% agree with you. But if your goals is to simply make money then I disagree.
spanky2,
Yeah, I read that article a while back and it was great. I think the message I got from it was "beware of touts that don't do their homework" and I fully agree with it.
Thanks for the elaboration. This is what I don't understand and was the main motivation for posting the thread: why is it difficult for most to see that doing your own handicapping AND paying someone else to do some extra work can happen at the same time??
Like I said in another post, more money is better than less money. If you have the extra bankroll and if the service is trustworthy (2 very big ifs to be sure) then I think it's a mistake to pass up the opportunity.
Maybe our goals are different. You said "if your goal is to be a successful handicapper" so from that point of view I 100% agree with you. But if your goals is to simply make money then I disagree.
spanky2,
Yeah, I read that article a while back and it was great. I think the message I got from it was "beware of touts that don't do their homework" and I fully agree with it.
Czech, I think that should say it all!!!!!!
But it is really one of the most eye-opening articles I have read. 90% of these Fuchers just want YOUR $$$$ and that's the bottom line eh ????
Makes an honest person wonder.I know a guy that signed up for $1000 U.S. 4 years ago, You won't believe it.....0-17.....The guy has'nt made a bet since.....And ,to really make you puke, the cocks still phone him....
Man 'O'Man.........Good luck.....Spanky........
But it is really one of the most eye-opening articles I have read. 90% of these Fuchers just want YOUR $$$$ and that's the bottom line eh ????
Makes an honest person wonder.I know a guy that signed up for $1000 U.S. 4 years ago, You won't believe it.....0-17.....The guy has'nt made a bet since.....And ,to really make you puke, the cocks still phone him....
Man 'O'Man.........Good luck.....Spanky........
fletch, I think we should all be able to laugh at each other. My wife is an OT as well and she can't spell either, go figure and I also knew u have your masters from a previous post! Don't mean to cheap shot you as I'll tell u what I think, I'm just a little tongue in cheek, and I like to use sarcasm. Cheers!
PS, I refer to myself all the time as a hillbilly, redneck, grit eater, etc.
PS, I refer to myself all the time as a hillbilly, redneck, grit eater, etc.
does she have messy hand writting also hell everything is an abbreviation or a symbol or a chart with body parts and you x and circle,thats why we can't spell.
i am sure in person things would sound different because a pc has no tone to its voice,thats all.
good luck and don't make fun of her spelling :nono: you might need her to fix you up some day
the funny part is northern wv joking with westeren ky about inbreeding hell the probley think we are both hicks,the kind of pictures the show on the news when they show the states outside are own area,like the national news,they always find the dirtest poorest looking coal town and thats what people think its like
hell everything is an abbreviation or a symbol or a chart with body parts and you x and circle,thats why we can't spell.i am sure in person things would sound different because a pc has no tone to its voice,thats all.
good luck and don't make fun of her spelling :nono: you might need her to fix you up some day
the funny part is northern wv joking with westeren ky about inbreeding hell the probley think we are both hicks,the kind of pictures the show on the news when they show the states outside are own area,like the national news,they always find the dirtest poorest looking coal town and thats what people think its like
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I have no problem with those that refuse to pay for picks. It is an individual issue with far too many angles to discuss in a short space. But I disagree, in part, with SixFive's assertion that the pay for play industry is represented by the likes of Stu Feiner, Jim Feist, Wayne Root, et al. That is far from true. Those guys, and scores more like them, represent the worst side of that industry. They represent the scammers. They represent the lack of integrity and honesty that permeates the field. Any novice sports player knows these guys are blowing smoke just by listening to their ludicrous claims. While they may represent the most visible portion and certainly the most dispicable section of the business, they are to professional handicapping what O.J. Simpson was to professional acting. There are respectable and honest people who sell their selections. They just don't have a Saturday morning cable show or advertise in your local paper.
i am sure the "aggressive marketers" try to put their time into their selections too....yet almost none of them make any money....
they just lie about their results.....
the funny thing is, is this.....if people were making money buying picks by now.....there is this thing called "word of mouth" which would get around very very quickly and many people would know which sevice is making money consistently.....
the fact is, is that services are inconsistent across the board......and after a winning season, they are just as likely to have a following losing season -- perhaps more likely than they were prior to this.....all of them "put their time in"....all of them are out to make money.....most of them think that they have a certain angle most people do not have, etc. etc......all of them will tell you that....
there is one way to go and one good service to buy....they move lines and some books refuse to take bets from them....that in itself should be enough to tell anyone the secret to handicapping....
whenever inspecting anything or evaluating anything...always look to see who profits, where the money goes, why is this happening......why is what is happening, happening, etc. etc......never believe what people tell you.....follow the money trail......
they just lie about their results.....
the funny thing is, is this.....if people were making money buying picks by now.....there is this thing called "word of mouth" which would get around very very quickly and many people would know which sevice is making money consistently.....
the fact is, is that services are inconsistent across the board......and after a winning season, they are just as likely to have a following losing season -- perhaps more likely than they were prior to this.....all of them "put their time in"....all of them are out to make money.....most of them think that they have a certain angle most people do not have, etc. etc......all of them will tell you that....
there is one way to go and one good service to buy....they move lines and some books refuse to take bets from them....that in itself should be enough to tell anyone the secret to handicapping....
whenever inspecting anything or evaluating anything...always look to see who profits, where the money goes, why is this happening......why is what is happening, happening, etc. etc......never believe what people tell you.....follow the money trail......
Scott-Atlanta,
I just fell out of my chair laughing.
65 and Fletch, I do not know what OT is so please do not take offense. If either would like to tell me that would be ok.
I just fell out of my chair laughing.
65 and Fletch, I do not know what OT is so please do not take offense. If either would like to tell me that would be ok.