Isreal VS Arafat

[dr. freeze]

there are over 10000 Hamas in Palestine pledging to not stop until every Israeli man, woman, and child is slaughtered.....and the Arab nations and the PLO encourages this.......i do not see inbreds or backward as too strong a word....

We get bombed and declare war on terror and the Arabs say we deserve it......and defend those who did such a heinous act.....

Israel gets bombed ALMOST EVERY DAY!!! and the Arabs say that they do the same thing to them along with a bunch of other bullsh*t and no one wants to support Israel......

Israel has the right to defend its women and children......i personally cannot believe that they have waited so long.....

 

[SmashMouth]

Freeze how are you liking your fantasy team?:topic: I dealt Mussina

 

[rebel]

Dr freeze you wrote

""In our history though, we have been blessed properity wise as no other country has ever been blessed -- if you believe this is in part due to God's promise or if you don't, the facts bear witness.....I personally have a strong faith and think it woudl be very dangerous to step away from giving them our support.... ""


well we have property too with out aid to Israel

Ericson(mobiles) Volvo SAAB (Now US owned) ABB Atlas-copo we build are own figher jets not bad for a country of 9 million people

And heaven hasnt yet crashed down on us.

So i have to ask, do you belive the jews or GOD would kill you too if you dont support the "Chosen people".

So the israelis are killing palestinian christians becase they dont obey" the Master race".

what have Israel done for US that is soo wonderful. They stabb you in the back, realise it.

you are on to something important here! if US stops support for Israel maybe they will take out revenge on USA.

Also you refer to PA losing a war.
do you seriously meen PA when't to war with Israel in 1948

They had 750 .000 people displaced

Those people where not palestinian regular army i promise you that.


You say to have strong christian faith and yet you talk of exterminating people.

And to look at people as ,Inbreds, backwards, crazy when they live in refuge camp i dont think any people would be succesful in any bussiness spending 50 years in refugee camp(Prison).

For the first time in history today US did not use their veto against the security counsil demanding Israeli terror to stop

vote was 14-0

maybe there is some hope

Freeze i hope you take a look at the links i posted before

Take care brother

Peter

 

[AR182]

I believe both the Palestine people & the Israel people want peace.They must be sick with all of these killings.The Arab nations want the US to be more vocal in this matter.IMo like I voiced in a earlier thread the Arab countries also must be more vocal.They have to denounce the terrorists killing of innocent civilians.Israel has also killed civilians,but those were collateral.They have not targeted civilians as the terrorists have.
One of the reasons the US backs Israel is because Israel is the only democracy in the region.They are a very important ally of the US.Although I don't think US should turn their back on Israel they should not send any peace keeping forces into the region.
I don't understand how people in this thread have stated that Israel laughs at US.From day 1, Israel has been targeted by some of the more militant Arab countries.They want to wipe Israel off the map.Since the end of WW2 the jewish people have stated "never again".This is why they act like they do.
Question....If Palestine wanted peace why didn't they accept the agreement at Camp David when Clinton was president?They would have had 97% of the desired territory back.
I will repeat for the 3rd time ...The Arab nations must denounce terrorism.Once that is done & all make an effort to stop it,there will be peace.

 

[dr. freeze]

believe it was 1967 when Israel won a war which really didn't take too long - think it was 6 days.....

if you don't understand the Christian religion than you will not understand what I was trying to say about that so don't try.....just realize that it is there.....also Christianity has a strong belief in justice and that it is the state's act to enforce justice.....calling these people reprobates or whatever you want to call them is calling a spade a spade.......they are crazy.....they even try to justify their terrorism.....and some of the world is actually buying it which is even more amazing....

we gotta protect Israel or they would be slaughtered just like we would protect Sweden or any other country which threatened to take them over.....i believe we have done that before too....circumstances might have been a little different, but the madness has always been in our world and you can either let it spread, or you can quench it.....and once it reaches a certain level, you have to exterminate it because if you let them go, they will just go back and plan their next attack.....

Israel is allies with the US...they wouldn't mess with us and there is no reason to think they would.....there is about as much chance of them attacking us as there is the Brits......we protect our allies -- namely freedom loving democracies who wish to live in peace -- and maybe they should be a little more thankful, but we do not protect them for a pat on the back....we do it because it is the right thing to do....if the PLO's put an end to this terror, start enforcing justice, and start developing as a people instead of living in the stone age and promoting this kind of behavior, they will also get the U.S.' support and we will come down hard on anyone who tries to mess with them.....

 

[djv]

Lets look why folks get pissed at us. I have very little info on that. Why, because no one seems to tell us why. Is some of our policies not seen as fair and balanced. I don't know. But to end this chit we may need to put our troops in there to keep these folks away from each other. Will this just be another reason for them to hate us. Time for the Brits, French and a few others to take up the role. Look what we have done since 9/11. Blew the chit out of a country that could not keep the bad guys out. But the real bad guys we wanted to get our hands on. Well we got 1 I blieve out of about 6 we would like to have. I have no idea if that made more folks like us or hate us more. We need to find away to help some of these countries early on to prevent some of what happens later. We should never had turn away from the Kurds. Had we kept arming them and training them we may not have a problem with Iraq today. But we stopped. We said we will have a no fly zone for Iraq. So what, that did little. We waisted 10 years. That is very sad.

 

[TIME TO MAKE $$$]

Gentlemen,

I appreciate that there has been no flaming towards anyone and that this is turning out to be a great discussion.

Greatly appreciated


Will have my final say on this on Monday or Tuesday, great insight indeed by many individuals.

I also wanted to thanks a certain individual who has not posted a response but read this thread, I received an email from him and he was a little upset on certain statements that I had made. I apologized and made myself more clear as to what I WAS really trying to say.

All is well now, as he is a great friend and I just wanted to thank him for his understanding.




Kindest Regards

 

[AR182]

I agree with Time To Make $$$,I too am impressed that is no flaming on this hot topic.For that I commend everyone.

 

[rebel]

Agree with TTM

This is a very good discussion and i think this proves that Madjacks is the best forum in the world where people can discuss a very sensitive issue in a civiliced manner.

Dr freeze.

I am european and christian so you cant say i do not understand my own religion. You said that USA ows the Israelis their sucsess and that it would end your sucsess if you stoped support for Israel... i find this very doubtful.

I think US citizens are responsible for there own good fortune why belittle your own people struggles and say it is the Israelis that made USA great.

This conflict dident start in 1967 it was 1948 when the jews came from all over europe with guns in hand after they had gone awol for 2000 years(the romans pushed them out) and told palestinians to leave.


Also about terrorists the american patriots where considerd terrorists by the brits... soo it depends on wich side of the fence you stand. Terrorist one day freedom fighter the next day.

My Opinion is as i said before stop sending 3 billion a year to Israel helping them kill civilians in camps. Then you are going to see people change opinion about US government.

and build alliance with Arab countrys that can give something back........ OIL .

You talk about killing arabs before they kill us .

Why would arabs kill the best customers of there products?

To destroy the west and sell oil to eachother?

.....it doesnt make sence.

we need them and they need us westeners

The leaders of these Arab nations have MDs from US schools i dont think there is going to be any problem buying oil from them once US stops supporting Israels occupation.

May all our bets be winners

take care

Peter

 

[dr. freeze]

Arabs such as Bin Laden resent all western civilization and anyone who does not bow down to Allah, oppress women, and follow their strict codes....they do not reason, and there is no rationality behind their motives.....hitler had little reason behind his movement just as militant islam has little reason...it is an evil force which needs to be destroyed......

as far as God's promise to the Israeli people are concerned and those who support them, you will not be able to reason through whether or not that applies today...it is either taken on faith or discarded as not appicable anymore....there is no way to argue for or against this matter of faith....i just mentioned it because it is there.....many Americans believe that part of the reason that we are prosperous, is because we support Israel....if you agree or disagree with that, it is your perogative....just realize that it is there.....

i am wondering where these magic "camps" are where civilians are killed by Israelis....there are no such things, but they are a part of the Arab propaganda machine rather....Israelis do not kill civilians...you have to realize this....if they do, they are prosecuted and put to death....a counter attack against terrorist factions and cells where civilians (who are used as shields many times by the PLO's) are unfortunately killed is not a blatant attack on the civilians....if you reason like this, you will also believe Osama Bin Ladin and Saddam Hussein who say that the US attacks civilian targets....the Arab propaganda is the same -- just a matter of who gives it out....they also say that the US deserves to be terrorized because we pollute the world with our culture.....

I know that the Israelis took land from the PLO's in the 40's and fought them off in 1967. That is what many wars are about. This land has been the cause of strife since history was recorded. I doubt there will ever be real peace in the area. It is something we have to live with. It has always been fought over between Arabs and Jews or within Arab factions.

Once again, Israel is our ally and that is why we support them. The have a democracy and are a freedom loving country. They have research facilities trying to end worldwide disease and pestilence (while the other Arab countries use their labs for other reasons). They do not believe in terror. They must be given the strength to fight back against terror. They have been persecuted as a people since time began pretty much everywhere. They are resiliant in this manner. We have gotten a taste as a country of what it is like to live with the possibility that at any given moment, our life or lives of our brothers and sisters might be taken from us because of some crazy muslim extremist.

Peace is worth as much as the piece of paper that it is written on until all militant groups are sniffed out and eradicated. At this point, that is all you can do. The Palestinian leaders must be held accountable for promoting this ongoing violence and doing nothing in their tenure to stop it. It is time that we start taking these threats against America, Israel, and the rest of the free world seriously instead of lightly before it is too late. And the clock is ticking.......

 

[rebel]

Dr freeze


US should establish better relations with countrys who give something back to US Taxpayers(OIL) not someone constantly putting the American people in the crosshair.

I dont concider OBL to be a leader of an Arab country, You and i both now that he was working for CIA before and maybe still is

About Arrafat just two month ago US gov say hes a marginal figure with no importance to peace prosses and now he suddenly is fully responsibul for Palestiian resistace....go figure


Israel is US best friend you say, but it is a strange relation between friends when you dont even have a extradition deal with them that is balaced

Americans can be extradited to Israel. But Israelis cant be extradited to US.

But maybe this is a favor US gov do for Israel since they built your welth

with a best friend like Israel who needs enemeis

A best friends that spy on YOU? i dont think soo!!!


Israeli spy ring in USA
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/dea1.html

And what are Israel doing for US that is soo great, guard oil wells or protect mainland USA? LOL

You say Israel is a great democracy i dont think a country allowing torture of prisoners, driving tanks over ambulaces stoping first aid for wounded people, Bulldozing private homes, shooting at journalists( two swedes shoot at today at check point)Making woman give birth at check points, executing combatants http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/03/30/holmes.otsc/index.html
and breaking the UN human rights over and over is a democracy http://www.users.wineasy.se/pc/info/HumanRights.html

The toll of 18 months of violence reaches 1,247 Palestinians and 400 Israelis.

WARNING!!!!

This link is not for weak people this is the reality of the palestine People

http://resistance.jeeran.com/massacres/gallery.htm

It feels good also that the UN is going to claim 50 million for all motorveichles and buildings destroyed by israelis.

I hope the Swedish goverment will also demand Israel to pay for the statistics offices given by Swedish tax payers to PA that Israel bombed.

also follow the link and read about these refugee camps you deny

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/MEPP/PRRN/prfront.html

I will say it again US need to stop funding this country, its a disaster for US to continue this support.

money is the only thing they understand.

In Februari this year Israel asked US for an additional 800 million on top of the 3 billion they got this year. But Bush refused(applause) and said maybe you get 200 million if you withdraw your troops and it took like 5 min for the tanks to start rolling back


I watched the election debates on CNN and fox and nbc and Bush talking about bringing the army home and not being everywhere fighting all these wars, even reduce spending on Israel

Do really you think it is a coincidence that all this 9/11 started because he got ellected. i think not .

I think Israel knew about these attack but dident tell US because it serves Israels purpose. Israel have benefitted most of this crises and if they can get US to Attack Irak and US will get more sick veterans.

If not varning your "Best friend" is harbouring terror i dont know what is

Israel fear Bush and that USA is going to wake up

but its going to take a hard effort

He is the best president for palestine and Israels worst nightmare of the two that you could have elected (I hope he got the guts to stand up against Israel)But hes only the president so he can only make small decissions

dont you think Israel had preferred Gore liberman. sure


I will say it again i love The American people. I have always enjoyed my trips to US. (whent first time 84 took the west cost down to mexico, I hope to make next superbowl party)

But supportnig Israel is ANTI-USA in my opinion.

sending your own blood to fight for Israel that have NO RESPECT AND LOVE for USA. Make NO MISTAKE The jews are not US friends.But the WASP in Europe are

we are the same people as majority of USA

the US is a mix of all earth people so it belong to all people in this world even moore important now then ever too be active in US politics when its the only Superpower.

There must be at least 8-9 million swedes living in USA that left Europe in the 1800. I dont whant to see any people die in an unneccesary war. Just to fill the pockets of arms dealers but this lobby is strong and its not looking good at this moment but i feel comfident that there are people that are wakeing up in US

Like fletcher and patternseeker TTM and others

Thanks

About war on terrorism from the Observer
http://www.observer.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,651633,00.html


I think this will be my last post for awhile on this matter

Take care brothers

and peace for all humans

Peter

anyone coming this way on vacation in summer drop me a mail

 

[dr. freeze]

sorry rebel, but this stuff pretty much takes all credibility away from anything you were trying to say....Bin Ladin works for the CIA?....this and all these websites are nothing more than the Arab propaganda machine.....Arafat right now is harboring many of the leaders of the Hamas in his office building....the only concentration camps in Israel are jails where terrorists sit and yes those terrorists should be executed....if you let them out, they will just come back with a bomb on them...

come to think of it, the US now has a concentration camp....its called camp X-Ray.....we keep the terrorists in cages....if we let them go, they will tie themselves to a bomb and walk into the neighborhood grocery....the "harsh treatment, persecution, and torture" with which the US soldiers treat the Arab prisoners can be found on the same websites where you find out how evil the Israelis are.....

You cannot reason with these people.....they are all madmen and bent on destroying anyone who gets in their way....many of the things that these websites accuse Israel of doing, you will find others who accuse the US of doing the same thing.....just a bunch of trash....

Unfortunately, the Islam movement is taking over Europe and is bringing with it this propaganda....it is quite a shock to imagine that anyone could side with these infidels who lives in a civilized world....very alarming indeed.....you can get people to believe anything these days...."if you keep telling people the same thing over and over again, they will start to believe it".....think this quote can be attributed to Lenin...not sure....but it is an astounding bit of psychology.....

 

[SmashMouth]

Bin Laden did work for Cia in the past. Saw that on 60 minoy=tes Freeze!!! Is that so far fetched.. Noriega worked with George Bush senior in Cia. Look it up!!!

 

[dr. freeze]

to what degree did he work then.....of course the CIA makes contacts and yes the CIA supported Bin Ladin years ago, but to insinuate that he works for them now makes no sense.....

Israel knew about the attacks huh....that is nonsense....and Bush would not withdraw any support of Israel.....Clinton maybe, but Bush no way.....

 

[Neemer]

Weren't the Jewish People a few years back, being treated the same way they are NOW treating the Palestinians? If there's one group in the world that should be sympathetic to the people of Palestine, should it not be the Jewish people? Has it been so long ago that they've forgotten what trials and tribulations they once faced in Germany? How ironic that the "shoe" is on the other foot now.

A very intelligent person that I attend church with, took a tour of the Holy City back in the mid 80's. Before arriving, she expressed to me that she had always been more sympathetic towards the Israelis in their plight against the Palestinians. However, once she arrived, she quickly changed her mind regarding the situation. She basically said that the people of Palestine were treated as 2nd class citizens. Healthcare, hospitals, facilities, etc...etc...were much better for the Jewish people than the Palestinians. She said the differences in the quality of life between the two groups of people was sickening. She compared it to a similiar situation that people for the U.S. experienced in the 60's and 70's. Perhaps a few of you all remember the racial tension among blacks and whites many years ago.

The highlight of her transition of feelings was when she noticed a small Palestinian child being held by her mother waiting to get her child seen by a local Palestinian doctor at one of the very few rundown Palestine hospitals. Why couldn't this child receive the same type of quality medical care that a Jewish child could receive? Does anyone really think it was God's intention to differentiate among groups of people? Aren't we all considered to be children of God?{If ya do believe, that is }

I also will have to agree with 65 in his assessment that this conflict will more than likely NEVER end. As long as the jewish power brokers remain, this differing of values and ideals will never disappear. Most of the problems stem from money, politics, greed, and spiritual beliefs. It's quite sad and ironic that "Religion" is the main culprit for taking so many lives....

 

[Neemer]

I did forget to state that I totally disagree with the outbursts of terrorist attacks of the Palestinians. To insinuate that Arafat has had nothing to do with these is totally ludicrous. Does he not know by now that these acts of aggression is NOT going to further his cause? Based upon the same amount of population %'s, these terrorist's acts would be like the United States experiencing EIGHT different World Trade Center attacks!!

 

[Neemer]

And as long as there are oil interests in the Middle East, we will always have our hand in the policy making of the Arab countries. Becoming self sufficient and not relying on this crude, would be one of the greatest events in United States history. BUT, that won't happen b/c of the automobile lobbying clout that these men have in D.C....

 

[dr. freeze]

Israel treats the Palestinians poorly which isn't right either but that is no excuse to do what the PLO's do......I am sure the Palestinian average citizen doesn't treat the common Jew with much friendship either.....i don't think that it is quite comparable to the mentality which the US experienced 40 or so years ago...the attitude we had was kind of an inferiority, arian superiority complex.....this is flat out hatred....both are wrong, but i think the former was easier to get over than the latter will ever be....

these two races have been at odds since the beginning of time....it will never change....as a Christian, I do not view the source of the problem as "religion" but rather the source of the problem is the evil one where all problems come from and what a great avenue for him to twist religions into destruction.....he is the master deception artist....

 

[rebel]

Dr. Freeze




I have no cred because OBL diden't work for CIA.......LMFAO.

You are wrong again and again you should read more history

You cite LENIN of course you support Israel

Let me tell you that Karl Marx and Fredrich Engels where both JEWS.

I assume you know they wrote The Communist Mannifesto

The jew gave my continent 50 years of communism half of europe was ruind. 100 million Chistians dead

My grandfather fought the Communists in the Finland Winter WAR .

and 12.000 other Swedish Volonteers did


some links if some one liketo read about soviet invasion of finland

http://www.tendens.se/nicolas/

http://www.mil.fi/tiedotus/talvisota_eng/index.html



Russian Revulotion finaced by Wall street jews the top 80 % of the russian leaders where jews.

Stalins all wives where Jewesses

In 1991 i took a flight from Bankok to ROME (Italy) and on this plane was mostly russian jews now living in Israel and i got to sit by an old man and we talked about russia and Israel and communism . He told me the same thing about the revolution ,The Jews did it becase of the many pogroms that where taking place in russia at the time and later as he said it whent out of controll.

And i think that the agressivness of Israel is increasing in the same amount as the immigration of east european and russian jews to Israel

they are more blood thirsty then the US or averege euro jew.

This is a mayor problem for Israel

You tell me this People Love YOU ($$$$$$$$) LMFOA

German people that where kids and not even born during ww2 are today sending Billions of D-Mark to Israel for "war crimes" .

They love money not US Citisen you are just CATTLE to them.



take care

Peter

 

[dr. freeze]

Pete dude....i am wrong again and again? i did not say that Bin ladin wasn't used by the CIA....heck Saddam Hussein was too to some extent....that is different than working for the CIA....i said he isn't now....i know English may not be your primary language, and i give you lots of credit and respect for trying to understand the U.S., much less our politics, but you are making some wrong assumptions and i see a lot of anti-semitism at the root of what you are trying to say....

believe me, the U.S. gets used by about every country....pretty much everyone takes advantage of us and owes us billions of dollars......we look out for the democracies and freedom loving countries including Sweden, Germany, Great Britain, Canada, and Israel among others.....if the Arab nations stop terrorism, stop slaughtering their own people, and stop threatening the U.S., we will be happy to have them for our allies as well.....right now we need the leaders of these fanatical countries to stop supporting terrorism and making statements like Arafat -- he even said the other day it would be an honor for him to be a martyr like the suicide bombers are....this is unacceptable behavior and for a man who has consistently made statements inspiring terrorism, he cannot be allowed to go on anymore....enough is enough...these people need to get out of the stone age and start promoting love and peace instead of resentment and hate....