recovery summer?

Mags

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They pay the most because they make the most. As long as they make the most they will and should continue to pay the most. Would you like to tax the poor more? You are nuts. How will taking money out of a poor or middle class person put people to work. Why not tax some of the money that will never see the light of day? The money you would be taking from the Middle Class and below would be money that otherwise would be put back into the economy. But the overly rich are just sitting on it. As proved by the Bush Tax Cuts.

I understand what you are saying, but.... it is the "rich"s money - they earned it. Somehow stealing it from them just because they are successful doesn't make sense. Why penalize those who work hard, got an education, and are successful to help those who don't work hard, chose not to get an education?

Seems like we should incent and reward success, not the other way around.

More importantly, EVERYONE should pay FIT - even at the 10% level. Take all deductions away (mortgage interest, child credit, earned income credit, etc) and you'll get more from the top end AND the lower end....

problem solved!
 

Duff Miver

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I understand what you are saying, but.... it is the "rich"s money - they earned it.


They earned it? No shit?

Tell me how the following "earned it"

Steve Forbes
John McCain
Jamie Johnson
John Kerry
All of the living Rockefellers
All of the living Kennedys

When you finish that list, I'll give you the long list.

Idiot.
 

Mags

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They earned it? No shit?

Tell me how the following "earned it"

Steve Forbes
John McCain
Jamie Johnson
John Kerry
All of the living Rockefellers
All of the living Kennedys

When you finish that list, I'll give you the long list.

Idiot.

Ah Duffy, there is the problem.

You see, Mr. Obama arbitrarily defined rich in his mind as anyone making $250K or more a year - which lumps a whole bunch of hard working families in the same class as those above.

Clearly there should be a separation between those above and someone making $250K - and they should be treated much differently by Mr. Obama.

Yes, those people may have inherited much of their money. But their forefathers did earn it - so shouldn't they be entitled to it?

Don't you want any wealth you may accumulate to go to your children? Frankly, I don't see much difference in bequeathing wealth to your children when you are dead compared to possibly buying them things or paying for college when they are still alive.

It is earned money - I don't see any problem with giving it to your heirs. It is much more theirs than it is the governments (who try to steal it with the inheritance tax).

JMHO.
 

StevieD

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I understand what you are saying, but.... it is the "rich"s money - they earned it. Somehow stealing it from them just because they are successful doesn't make sense. Why penalize those who work hard, got an education, and are successful to help those who don't work hard, chose not to get an education?

Seems like we should incent and reward success, not the other way around.

More importantly, EVERYONE should pay FIT - even at the 10% level. Take all deductions away (mortgage interest, child credit, earned income credit, etc) and you'll get more from the top end AND the lower end....

problem solved!

There has been a redistribution of wealth that has taken place during the last 10 years or so. The rich are making more than ever and the gap between the average workers pay and the top execs has grown 100's of times wider.

When that pig at Ford gets a 56 millon dollar bonus something is wrong. Tom Brady makes 20 million a year. Something is wrong.I agree they deserve money but not that much. The economy has crapped since the Bush Tax Cuts. The overly rich do not need them.
 
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Duff Miver

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Tell ya what, Maggot. How about listening to the advise of a very rich, very wise, self made man, Warren Buffet -

Although he's way, way, over your head.

[The perfect amount of money to leave children is] enough money so that they would feel they could do anything, but not so much that they could do nothing.

It has been far safer to steal large sums with pen than small sums with a gun.

The 400 of us pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you're in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.

Take me as an example. I happen to have a talent for allocating capital. But my ability to use that talent is completely dependent on the society I was born into. If I'd been born into a tribe of hunters, this talent of mine would be pretty worthless. I can't run very fast. I'm not particularly strong. I'd probably end up as some wild animal's dinner.

My wealth has come from a combination of living in America, some lucky genes, and compound interest. Both my children and I won what I call the ovarian lottery. (For starters, the odds against my 1930 birth taking place in the U.S. were at least 30 to 1. My being male and white also removed huge obstacles that a majority of Americans then faced.)
 

bleedingpurple

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Where it is real F ing COLD
BP - do you mean by Walker not descriminating against private citizens by paying public employees better wages, better benefits, and better job protections than they have themselves?

Public employees should never have better benefits, etc than those who pay their salaries via taxes. THAT is discrimination.

I'm sure those in the Public sector that are good employees will do just fine moving forward. Those who aren't good won't do so well. Just like in the private sector. Seems pretty fair to me.

I mean by not going after ALL PUBLIC EMPLOYEES. Picking and choosing is not right. Just think we could be in a surplus if he goes after them all. Oh but he can't go after the people who supported him. Just be fair..
 

StevieD

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BP - do you mean by Walker not descriminating against private citizens by paying public employees better wages, better benefits, and better job protections than they have themselves?

Public employees should never have better benefits, etc than those who pay their salaries via taxes. THAT is discrimination.

I'm sure those in the Public sector that are good employees will do just fine moving forward. Those who aren't good won't do so well. Just like in the private sector. Seems pretty fair to me.

Mags public employees have no better benefits than the large private companies offer. If someone in the Private Sector chooses to work for a small company then they have to take rthe pluses and the minuses that go with that. Just because the Private Sector pay scale has not increased except at the top level do not take that out on the Public Sector employee who struck a deal to work there based on benefits among other things. It seems we are drawn back to the rapid rate of top executive pay again and again.
 

Mags

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There has been a redistribution of wealth that has taken place during the last 10 years or so. The rich are making more than ever and the gap between the average workers pay and the top execs has grown 100's of times wider.

When that pig at Ford gets a 56 millon dollar bonus something is wrong. Tom Brady makes 20 million a year. Something is wrong.I agree they deserve money but not that much. The economy has crapped since the Bush Tax Cuts. The overly rich do not need them.

StevieD - its pretty hard to point to the Bush tax cuts as being the causal agent here... there were some other things that likely played a bigger role (9/11 and the insistence of the Dems to give mortgages to anyone that was breathing - leading to the housing runup and meltdown).

I kinda think the tax cuts have very little to do with what has occured. And the tax cuts helped EVERYONE, not just the rich.

Again, it would be helpful to think about the $250K business owner crowd, as there is a million times more of them than Warren Buffet, et al..... Those are the people that are really getting hurt by the income distribution goal of the current administration. Guys like Buffett, Gates, etc - it has no impact. Same with Tom Brady.
 

Mags

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Mags public employees have no better benefits than the large private companies offer. If someone in the Private Sector chooses to work for a small company then they have to take rthe pluses and the minuses that go with that. Just because the Private Sector pay scale has not increased except at the top level do not take that out on the Public Sector employee who struck a deal to work there based on benefits among other things. It seems we are drawn back to the rapid rate of top executive pay again and again.

Stevie - the teachers around here have a $0 deductible health plan, with no premiums required and only a $5 copay for drugs. Not even a copay required for a doctor office visit.

I challenge you to find a large private employer that offers that type of coverage. Look all you want - you won't find it.

That is the type of BS that goes on in Public unions that give Joe Taxpayer heartburn - when there comparable health plan has a $1500 deductible, $50 Dr. Copays and a $15/$25 Rx plan.

Huge difference.
 

Mags

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I mean by not going after ALL PUBLIC EMPLOYEES. Picking and choosing is not right. Just think we could be in a surplus if he goes after them all. Oh but he can't go after the people who supported him. Just be fair..

Ah.... I now understand. I understand his reasons for doing it (political payback AND he could not afford to have those folks go on strike), but I did not support carving them out either.
 

Mags

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Tell ya what, Maggot. How about listening to the advise of a very rich, very wise, self made man, Warren Buffet -

Although he's way, way, over your head.

[The perfect amount of money to leave children is] enough money so that they would feel they could do anything, but not so much that they could do nothing.

It has been far safer to steal large sums with pen than small sums with a gun.

The 400 of us pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you're in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.

Take me as an example. I happen to have a talent for allocating capital. But my ability to use that talent is completely dependent on the society I was born into. If I'd been born into a tribe of hunters, this talent of mine would be pretty worthless. I can't run very fast. I'm not particularly strong. I'd probably end up as some wild animal's dinner.

My wealth has come from a combination of living in America, some lucky genes, and compound interest. Both my children and I won what I call the ovarian lottery. (For starters, the odds against my 1930 birth taking place in the U.S. were at least 30 to 1. My being male and white also removed huge obstacles that a majority of Americans then faced.)

OMG - this is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. It attributes anyone's success in life to 100% luck, with no skill involved.

Yea, Obama was lucky that he was born mulatto. Let's forget about the schooling he had. Let's forget about the community organizing experience he had. It was just all luck. In fact, his grades and the fact he graduated was too.

What type of example does that comment give to children today? Don't bother studying, don't go to school, etc - because it doesn't matter how hard you work or study, the outcome is pure luck - so you are better off just living off welfare and trying to win the lottery.

LeBron was just lucky to be born a black man with superior athletic genes. He probably never worked hard at his craft to get to where he is today. He should be paid $1 an hour - since it was all luck.

Sometimes I can't believe how stupid some of the comments you make are.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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OMG - this is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. It attributes anyone's success in life to 100% luck, with no skill involved.

Yea, Obama was lucky that he was born mulatto. Let's forget about the schooling he had. Let's forget about the community organizing experience he had. It was just all luck. In fact, his grades and the fact he graduated was too.

What type of example does that comment give to children today? Don't bother studying, don't go to school, etc - because it doesn't matter how hard you work or study, the outcome is pure luck - so you are better off just living off welfare and trying to win the lottery.

LeBron was just lucky to be born a black man with superior athletic genes. He probably never worked hard at his craft to get to where he is today. He should be paid $1 an hour - since it was all luck.

Sometimes I can't believe how stupid some of the comments you make are.

I completely agree with Duff but didn't have time this morning to spell it out for you. The rich are nothing without the poor. And to be honest Warren has the same thoughts and expressed it very clearly. Why can't you understand this? It's a joke that for the greatest country in the world we have absolutely no minimum standards for the poor.

I love it how you compare welfare to people in the upper class. Who do you think everyone would choose? Yeah, I feel sorry for the elites to have a pay a few more percentage points in taxes. You and people like you are lower than dog shit. If you are in an elite class, you should be more than happy to pay that small tax. If anything to prevent a revolutionary class war in this country. Without the poor to rip off the elites are nothing.
 

Duff Miver

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OMG - this is the dumbest argument I've ever heard.


Those weren't my comments, Maggot. They were direct quotes from Warren Buffet.

But of course you are smarter than Warren. Richer too, probably.

Saaaaaaaay....don't you EVER get tired of getting your ass kicked?
 

Mags

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I completely agree with Duff but didn't have time this morning to spell it out for you. The rich are nothing without the poor. And to be honest Warren has the same thoughts and expressed it very clearly. Why can't you understand this? It's a joke that for the greatest country in the world we have absolutely no minimum standards for the poor.

I love it how you compare welfare to people in the upper class. Who do you think everyone would choose? Yeah, I feel sorry for the elites to have a pay a few more percentage points in taxes. You and people like you are lower than dog shit. If you are in an elite class, you should be more than happy to pay that small tax. If anything to prevent a revolutionary class war in this country. Without the poor to rip off the elites are nothing.

Seriously, I don't get the argument.

So, you are saying anyone (or any company) that makes money selling a product or good is, in effect, ripping off the "poor" class by doing so? So, now the argument is, anyone that is rich has nothing to do with their talents and abilities, but more to do with the fact that there are really dumb people out there buying their products and services when they don't need them?

That logic is really F'd up. And that is exactly what you are saying.
 

Mags

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Those weren't my comments, Maggot. They were direct quotes from Warren Buffet.

But of course you are smarter than Warren. Richer too, probably.

Saaaaaaaay....don't you EVER get tired of getting your ass kicked?

Well, in your case, I'm still waiting for that first time. But you are too old and too feeble to do it - unless you or your wife hit me with your walkers...:mj07:
 

THE KOD

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Taxpayers have spent $4 billion since 1978 on California's capital punishment system -- and with only 13 executions to show for it.

That's about $308 million per execution.

And without substantial changes, the state's total bill will expand to $9 billion by 2030, according to a new study by federal appeals Judge Arthur Alarc?n and Paula Mitchell, his law clerk and a professor at Loyola Law School.

The situation is now so severe, voters must choose to pay higher taxes or abolish the death penalty, the authors say.

The study's release comes at a time when fiscal policy is a hot topic in California. And the state's $26 billion deficit is already hitting the criminal justice system.

Gov. Jerry Brown announced in April that he is canceling the long-planned construction of a new housing facility for condemned inmates at the state's infamous San Quentin prison.

With a backlog of 714 prisoners currently on death row, Alarc?n and Mitchell call California's capital punishment system "dysfunctional," and "a debacle."

The rare comprehensive review of the state's death row costs estimates that prosecuting death penalty cases is $184 million more expensive every year than if those cases had been life without parole prosecutions.

"Nobody can really with a straight face say this is a system that is working," Mitchell said in an interview.

The state attorney general's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Thirty-nine crimes are now punishable by death in California, as voters have repeatedly expanded the program through the state's unique direct voter initiative process. The cost of expanding the death penalty was never accurately presented to voters, Alarc?n and Mitchell argue.

The result is a crawling appeals process that costs taxpayers as much as $300,000 to hire private attorneys for indigent prisoners, the authors say. And despite the big tab, a substantial number of inmates don't have adequate legal representation.

"The long wait for execution -- which has been over 20 years for each of the five inmates executed in the last 10 years -- reflects a wholesale failure to fund the efficient, effective capital punishment system that California voters were told they were choosing," the report says.

Jerry Brown vetoes California budget

But Kent Scheidegger, legal director of the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation, a nonprofit organization that advocates for victims rights, said California does not sentence too many people to death.

Instead, the state should work to resolve appeals faster, expand the pool of attorneys who are qualified to handle death penalty cases, and cut down the number of times the penalty phase is reviewed in court, Scheidegger said.
..........................................................................


I was going to try to answer some posts but rough day at work and my brain hurts.

After reading this article it just makes me sick.

Granted we are the most moral country in the world and believe in giving criminals every avenue to overturn a death penalty.

But how ,........ how can we be this stupid to spend 308 million dollars on one fawking death row person.

wtf......

Something has to give. I would seriously fry every fawking one of them personally to save that billion.

come on

where is America's head
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Seriously, I don't get the argument.

So, you are saying anyone (or any company) that makes money selling a product or good is, in effect, ripping off the "poor" class by doing so? So, now the argument is, anyone that is rich has nothing to do with their talents and abilities, but more to do with the fact that there are really dumb people out there buying their products and services when they don't need them?

That logic is really F'd up. And that is exactly what you are saying.

Let's use the example about sports that you love to talk about. Why the fuck do star athletes make 20 million dollars a year? Because there are a lot of morons out there. Lots of morons out there going to games and buying jerseys. And who are these morons? A lot of them are living paycheck to paycheck. What effect does it have on their life if their team wins the title this year? ZERO.

Why do we have advertising? To influence morons to buy shit that they don't need. They buy products they don't need to line the pockets of the elite. And what do they get in exchange? Well if they ever hit a bad patch in life they get fucked. The rich want to eliminate every social safety net system in this country.

Are some people talented? Sure. Do they deserve the amount of money they make. Most of the time, no. However, it's really based on people being dumber than shit. So should we cry if the elite have to pay a little more in taxes that help create a safety net for the very people that made them rich? No.
 

rusty

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Under a mask.
Let's use the example about sports that you love to talk about. Why the fuck do star athletes make 20 million dollars a year? Because there are a lot of morons out there. Lots of morons out there going to games and buying jerseys. And who are these morons? A lot of them are living paycheck to paycheck. What effect does it have on their life if their team wins the title this year? ZERO.

Why do we have advertising? To influence morons to buy shit that they don't need. They buy products they don't need to line the pockets of the elite. And what do they get in exchange? Well if they ever hit a bad patch in life they get fucked. The rich want to eliminate every social safety net system in this country.

Are some people talented? Sure. Do they deserve the amount of money they make. Most of the time, no. However, it's really based on people being dumber than shit. So should we cry if the elite have to pay a little more in taxes that help create a safety net for the very people that made them rich? No.

I could pick apart this response so easy.....nevermind:facepalm: classic example of wearing the mask and twisting the truth...:142smilie
 

Mags

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Let's use the example about sports that you love to talk about. Why the fuck do star athletes make 20 million dollars a year? Because there are a lot of morons out there. Lots of morons out there going to games and buying jerseys. And who are these morons? A lot of them are living paycheck to paycheck. What effect does it have on their life if their team wins the title this year? ZERO.

Why do we have advertising? To influence morons to buy shit that they don't need. They buy products they don't need to line the pockets of the elite. And what do they get in exchange? Well if they ever hit a bad patch in life they get fucked. The rich want to eliminate every social safety net system in this country.

Are some people talented? Sure. Do they deserve the amount of money they make. Most of the time, no. However, it's really based on people being dumber than shit. So should we cry if the elite have to pay a little more in taxes that help create a safety net for the very people that made them rich? No.

Well, there is only so much that we can do for the folks, as you describe, are dumber than shit.

Two sayings come to mind: "A fool and their money are soon parted" and "Survival of the fittest".

It's been that way since Adam and Eve and I'm sure it will be that way, way after we are gone.

It's like KOD always says "you can't fix stupid". And we have a ton of them that others make money on. Just the way it is.

Moral of the story - go to school, learn something (but don't stay in school forever, as you have to actually get some experience - unlike these idiots that take more than 4 years to finish college - if it takes you that long, you probably weren't cut out for college).

The strong survive - its always been that way, and always will be. People have sex like animals and reproduce just like them, with no foresight to the consequences. There are many of us that really haven't evolved and developed responsibility.

And for some folks to take advantage of those type of folks to make money - well, it has always been that way here (and in other countries) and will always will be. You can't fix stupid - but you can take advantage of it. AND EACH AND EVERYONE ONE OF YOU CAN REMEMBER AT LEAST ONE TIME IN YOUR LIFE WHERE YOU DID EXACTLY THAT.

Not to be crass, but that is the way it is - and was.
 
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